| Does anyone actually want to come here? 16:33 - May 25 with 6125 views | Lowie |
Serious question.
I have a very bad feeling we're going to end up replacing our mediocre players with those of a similar standard.
I hope I'm wrong. |  | | |  |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:23 - May 25 with 1231 views | clive_baker |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:15 - May 25 by tractorboy1978 |
My understanding is that SCMP is pretty easy to manipulate as any owner injections are treated as part of turnover figure, as long as they aren't loans. Not saying that will happen but it's an option. I also suspect this season will see the largest commercial income we have had in a while with the Ed Sheeran sponsorship (we have no idea how that is financially structured in itself) and increased shirt sales etc.
We have a real fight on our hands to get players of the rumoured calibre but like you I think we must be pretty sure we can and will improve the squad this summer. It seems like Bradley really was close (and he still hasn't signed a new deal yet). I do feel like the first couple of signings are going to be key though, if you can get in a couple that make others sit up and take notice you never know. |
In reality its not much different to operating a loss making entity in an attempt to get promoted, only it's funded through equity and not debt, which is what SCMP is concerned with. Whether the owners inject £2m into the business and it's factored into the Turnover calculation (for the purposes of SCMP I mean, not for accounting purposes which it wouldn't be) and we run a break even P&L for example, or whether we have the same cost base anyway and run at a £2m loss, which has to be funded somehow (as ME was doing, through with internal debt that ultimately got largely written off), it's all a bit left pocket right pocket. All SCMP is concerned with is that clubs aren't left crippled with debt. |  |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:25 - May 25 with 1220 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:03 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I think we've gone about it wrong currently - had we just let those with an option expire we'd be at 14 or so senior pros, a much more realsitic position to trade from to get a good squad of 20 players.
2-3 out, 8-9 in......as it is we need to get 9-10 out to get 9-10 in which isn't going to be easy and think it may hamstring us
The SCMP rules concern me, i60% of turnover isn't oing to see us recruit many from the Championship which is what it seems we want to dfo |
Do we just not look for prospects from overseas anymore? Since some of Mick's punts (Goteni the last I can remember), I can't think of a single player we've brought in from abroad. Is there really nobody out there? | | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:28 - May 25 with 1207 views | itfcjoe |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:25 - May 25 by FoghornGleghorn |
Do we just not look for prospects from overseas anymore? Since some of Mick's punts (Goteni the last I can remember), I can't think of a single player we've brought in from abroad. Is there really nobody out there? |
Sadly since BRexit is a waste of time, there is nearly no-one who a League 1 club can sign who would meet the GBE rules required to get a work permit.
Even Virgil van Dijk wouldn't have met them when he signed for Celtic for a few million a few years back.....they are very strict and there will be next to no foreign transfers into L1 |  |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:28 - May 25 with 1207 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:25 - May 25 by FoghornGleghorn |
Do we just not look for prospects from overseas anymore? Since some of Mick's punts (Goteni the last I can remember), I can't think of a single player we've brought in from abroad. Is there really nobody out there? |
I think Brexit has put pay to that. No chance the sort of players we would be looking at would get permits. | | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:28 - May 25 with 1204 views | StokieBlue |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:25 - May 25 by FoghornGleghorn |
Do we just not look for prospects from overseas anymore? Since some of Mick's punts (Goteni the last I can remember), I can't think of a single player we've brought in from abroad. Is there really nobody out there? |
There are new rules post-Brexit which make it very hard for a club at our level to get players from abroad.
SB |  | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:28 - May 25 with 1208 views | itfcjoe |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:23 - May 25 by clive_baker |
In reality its not much different to operating a loss making entity in an attempt to get promoted, only it's funded through equity and not debt, which is what SCMP is concerned with. Whether the owners inject £2m into the business and it's factored into the Turnover calculation (for the purposes of SCMP I mean, not for accounting purposes which it wouldn't be) and we run a break even P&L for example, or whether we have the same cost base anyway and run at a £2m loss, which has to be funded somehow (as ME was doing, through with internal debt that ultimately got largely written off), it's all a bit left pocket right pocket. All SCMP is concerned with is that clubs aren't left crippled with debt. |
Are we going to want to chuck in a load of equity just to get our of League 1? It shouldn't be required in reality - and could soon stack up | |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:31 - May 25 with 1188 views | Bluedandy |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:03 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I think we've gone about it wrong currently - had we just let those with an option expire we'd be at 14 or so senior pros, a much more realsitic position to trade from to get a good squad of 20 players.
2-3 out, 8-9 in......as it is we need to get 9-10 out to get 9-10 in which isn't going to be easy and think it may hamstring us
The SCMP rules concern me, i60% of turnover isn't oing to see us recruit many from the Championship which is what it seems we want to dfo |
Are you aware of how the Football League defines turnover for League One clubs in the context of SCMP?
Provided additional funding from an owner is not made in the form of loans (i.e. it's a cash injection) then it can be included as turnover. | | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:32 - May 25 with 1172 views | chrismakin |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:28 - May 25 by StokieBlue |
There are new rules post-Brexit which make it very hard for a club at our level to get players from abroad.
SB |
What specifically makes it difficult for us
Nodge are apparently still going to go shopping in Germany etc. And look at loan to buys etc |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:33 - May 25 with 1160 views | chrismakin |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:31 - May 25 by Bluedandy |
Are you aware of how the Football League defines turnover for League One clubs in the context of SCMP?
Provided additional funding from an owner is not made in the form of loans (i.e. it's a cash injection) then it can be included as turnover. |
Also. The only penalty I can see is a transfer embargo. Which if you've already got your squad that's not really going to hurt you is it | |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:34 - May 25 with 1165 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:28 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
Are we going to want to chuck in a load of equity just to get our of League 1? It shouldn't be required in reality - and could soon stack up |
They might do. They certainly don't want to be sitting two leagues away from the PL for long. If you don't have a Championship raffle ticket, you don't have a chance of making it to the top. As we've seen with Barnsley this season who've had a right go.
The noises are that they want to build a side that is capable of stepping up without too much more work. Difficult ask admittedly. | | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:36 - May 25 with 1157 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:28 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
Sadly since BRexit is a waste of time, there is nearly no-one who a League 1 club can sign who would meet the GBE rules required to get a work permit.
Even Virgil van Dijk wouldn't have met them when he signed for Celtic for a few million a few years back.....they are very strict and there will be next to no foreign transfers into L1 |
Gawd. With my fondness for football having waned so much through the last few years' doldrums, I'd managed to miss that completely. | | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:36 - May 25 with 1155 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:32 - May 25 by chrismakin |
What specifically makes it difficult for us
Nodge are apparently still going to go shopping in Germany etc. And look at loan to buys etc |
Imagine Norwich are going to be looking at a higher calibre of player than us, i.e players with international caps who will get permits far easier. | | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:38 - May 25 with 1139 views | clive_baker |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:28 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
Are we going to want to chuck in a load of equity just to get our of League 1? It shouldn't be required in reality - and could soon stack up |
It’s not my money, so if the owners want to inject it then great. It’s not debt, I don’t really see the downside as a supporter. Whether we should need to or not, I don’t disagree, in an ideal world a c £4m - 5m (or whatever 60% of our T/O will be) annual wage budget in the 3rd tier of English football should be sufficient to be competitive. The money is bonkers, but if the owners want to put £2m in to free up an additional £23k a week of salary to throw at 2 or 3 players then good on them. | |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:46 - May 25 with 1103 views | pistolpete |
It's only May and the season hasn't finished yet.
Also, Mark Ashton will be doing the player negotiations and he doesn't officially start until 1st June so whilst I am sure he has been involved in some talks on the players we want to sign it is probable that he is not allowed to do any negotiations until he officially starts as our CEO. |  | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:49 - May 25 with 1088 views | chrismakin |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:38 - May 25 by clive_baker |
It’s not my money, so if the owners want to inject it then great. It’s not debt, I don’t really see the downside as a supporter. Whether we should need to or not, I don’t disagree, in an ideal world a c £4m - 5m (or whatever 60% of our T/O will be) annual wage budget in the 3rd tier of English football should be sufficient to be competitive. The money is bonkers, but if the owners want to put £2m in to free up an additional £23k a week of salary to throw at 2 or 3 players then good on them. |
Clive... is the turnover based on previous 12 months or projected turnover for upcoming season.... | |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:13 - May 25 with 1038 views | clive_baker |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:49 - May 25 by chrismakin |
Clive... is the turnover based on previous 12 months or projected turnover for upcoming season.... |
The same period as the salary spend. So there will be an element of forecasting reliably what the turnover will be for the period. That’s not always easy with cup runs (don’t laugh), playoff revenues etc which are unknown until later in the year, but it’ll be a case of making assumptions around that and managing the cost base accordingly. Once season ticket sales are finalised it’ll be easier to forecast I imagine. I would expect if there’s a delta and we’ve overspent, the owners can inject a sum at the 11th hour to bring the spend back under 60% of turnover for the period. Well, either that or take the punishment, but I wouldn’t think that would be sensible. | |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:18 - May 25 with 1017 views | chrismakin |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:13 - May 25 by clive_baker |
The same period as the salary spend. So there will be an element of forecasting reliably what the turnover will be for the period. That’s not always easy with cup runs (don’t laugh), playoff revenues etc which are unknown until later in the year, but it’ll be a case of making assumptions around that and managing the cost base accordingly. Once season ticket sales are finalised it’ll be easier to forecast I imagine. I would expect if there’s a delta and we’ve overspent, the owners can inject a sum at the 11th hour to bring the spend back under 60% of turnover for the period. Well, either that or take the punishment, but I wouldn’t think that would be sensible. |
Thanks
So you basically can go shopping. Hope for some cup runs and if not just tidy up the accounts at the end...
Doesnt really stop us shopping championship level if we wanted too then. | |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:20 - May 25 with 1004 views | catch74 |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:46 - May 25 by pistolpete |
It's only May and the season hasn't finished yet.
Also, Mark Ashton will be doing the player negotiations and he doesn't officially start until 1st June so whilst I am sure he has been involved in some talks on the players we want to sign it is probable that he is not allowed to do any negotiations until he officially starts as our CEO. |
When are players due to return? - you’d imagine Cook will want most of his team in place, so if anyone is retained they walk into a very different environment. |  |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:23 - May 25 with 989 views | itfcjoe |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:13 - May 25 by clive_baker |
The same period as the salary spend. So there will be an element of forecasting reliably what the turnover will be for the period. That’s not always easy with cup runs (don’t laugh), playoff revenues etc which are unknown until later in the year, but it’ll be a case of making assumptions around that and managing the cost base accordingly. Once season ticket sales are finalised it’ll be easier to forecast I imagine. I would expect if there’s a delta and we’ve overspent, the owners can inject a sum at the 11th hour to bring the spend back under 60% of turnover for the period. Well, either that or take the punishment, but I wouldn’t think that would be sensible. |
It’s a moving target, a decent cup run and you can then update cap in January etc.
Each deal and new contract has to be ratified by EFL so you have to prove/forecast turnover at time of each deal - so theoretically you can’t get in position where it’s gone badly wrong and you have to add in equity | |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:36 - May 25 with 945 views | chrismakin |
Theres our global announcement signing
Lol.
Wonder who ours will be. There simply has to be one doesnt there? | |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:43 - May 25 with 930 views | Oldboy |
If they don't want to come here, then I hope we look elsewhere. Only players who want to be here need apply. Still very, very early days, so no need to panic yet. |  | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:45 - May 25 with 922 views | chrismakin |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:43 - May 25 by Oldboy |
If they don't want to come here, then I hope we look elsewhere. Only players who want to be here need apply. Still very, very early days, so no need to panic yet. |
Youd imagine we would hear of a few days running up to season tickets going on general sale
They cant leave it to late as people wont spend if they arent confident. Etc | |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:56 - May 25 with 910 views | Churchman |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:03 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I think we've gone about it wrong currently - had we just let those with an option expire we'd be at 14 or so senior pros, a much more realsitic position to trade from to get a good squad of 20 players.
2-3 out, 8-9 in......as it is we need to get 9-10 out to get 9-10 in which isn't going to be easy and think it may hamstring us
The SCMP rules concern me, i60% of turnover isn't oing to see us recruit many from the Championship which is what it seems we want to dfo |
I think it is very sad that he’s had to go about it this way. I’d have much preferred it if the players had busted a gut to up their performance (or just put one in) for the last 16 games of the season and showed something.
Instead, they were made fools of by the likes of Wimbledon, Gillingham and Northampton. Did well at Portsmouth for 40 mins. Shame the game lasted 90 etc. The players proved themselves to be part of the problem. I don’t care if they hated Cook. As professionals they should have shown more and worked harder before Cook during lockdown etc and after. But they chose not to. It was somebody else’s problem.
I am concerned that he has so many players to get in of the right calibre, character and attitude. It’s a tall order, but I think it’s doable. Essentially he needs a decent goalkeeper, centre half, central midfielder and a centre forward who can get off Twitter long enough to play more than half the games. A spine. Something to build a team around.
There is the loan market, players not part of better team’s squads (more than half the professional game), ambitious players in the division below that have talent, out of contract players.
We’ll be ok, but it’s going to be a bit of a scramble. Lots happening off the field, lots to come on it. |  | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 19:50 - May 25 with 840 views | LeoMuff |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:34 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I think that may be the case - ultimately whatever the vision, or the future of the club, the only way we will attract players here is to pay them more money than they can earn elsewhere.
Coming up against Championship clubs, restrained by SCMP, makes that very difficult - and think we will just have a refresh of squad rather than an upgrade on quality |
Totally agree, while we might have more cash then previously if we are up against a championship side then the only way we are getting the player is more wages, so we will have to pay champ wages plus 33%, no way we would be doing that.
We will shop for the best league 1, 2 and non league, with some higher league cast offs and that should be plenty to get out of league 1 you would hope. |  |
| |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 19:52 - May 25 with 834 views | clive_baker |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 18:23 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
It’s a moving target, a decent cup run and you can then update cap in January etc.
Each deal and new contract has to be ratified by EFL so you have to prove/forecast turnover at time of each deal - so theoretically you can’t get in position where it’s gone badly wrong and you have to add in equity |
That’s easily done. For every £1 of salary cost we add in excess of 60% of turnover, the owners need to inject £1.67 of equity. Ultimately the rules don’t prohibit spending at all, they merely prevent piling up debt. It just comes back to how much the owners are willing to invest in search of promotion. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
