| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... 10:29 - Jun 15 with 4902 views | OriginalMarkyP |
...by champ clubs I think we need to be seeing a landmark signing ASAP.
These are two of our best players. If not our actual two best players.
We've brought in 2 players who can do a job at this level (we all believe). But we've also let go several who we believed just as strongly could do a job when they came in.
I'm not counting Harper as a landmark signing (if we get him) just because he's from West Brom. Bennetts was from a better, bigger club than West Brom, similar age, probably was on considerably more money and was absolute dross. So 'big' club does not ensure 'big' player. And let's be honest none of us know anything much about him, and opinion of him on the WBA messageboards is at best mixed.
We need something to get the momentum going. [Post edited 15 Jun 2021 10:30]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:35 - Jun 15 with 1802 views | Fixed_It |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 11:02 - Jun 15 by Wallingford_Boy |
I do agree.
The players that have come in so far, can do a decent job at Lge 1 level, Harper may be a step up, but nothing to really get excited about.
Same sort of level as Downes and Dozzell at best, think its time to get in an older head or two, players that have been there and done it.
About 32, best days behind them, but a really coup for Lge 1.
Or am I being a bit unrealistic? |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 11:35 - Jun 15 with 1801 views | Nazemariner |
That is the kind of number we need, and that's presuming nobody else leaves.
I feels to me like we've chopped the head off the beast, and are hoping that it will regrow in time for the new season. |  | | |
| [Redacted] on 11:40 - Jun 15 with 1775 views | victorywilhappen |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 11:35 - Jun 15 by Nazemariner |
That is the kind of number we need, and that's presuming nobody else leaves.
I feels to me like we've chopped the head off the beast, and are hoping that it will regrow in time for the new season. |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 11:45 - Jun 15 with 1752 views | BloomBlue |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 10:41 - Jun 15 by TractorCam |
Two best players who in the last three seasons have finished 24th in the Championship and then 9th and 11th in League One.
This is hardly like when we lost Waghorn and Garner. |
Although if it's league position we're basing ability on then the argument is we're recruited players (so far) who finished 15th and 20th in L1 last season so that would make them worse? |  | | |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 11:58 - Jun 15 with 1726 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 11:17 - Jun 15 by Kropotkin123 |
So... We need a landmark signing because a young player leaves for a championship club. But Harper doesn't count, because he is a young player joining from a Championship club... Got it. |
So you know how mega talented Harper is do you?
He's a punt. Unless you've got a lot better info than anyone on here. We wanted him on loan and WBA said, give us 500k and you can have him. They don't rate him that highly clearly. Just because he's coming from a champ club means nothing. As i said Bennetts was from a top German club and utter pigswill. | |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:04 - Jun 15 with 1698 views | itfcjoe |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 10:50 - Jun 15 by Swansea_Blue |
People are going to be in for a shock if they are thinking we'll get much better players than those two. By definition that would mean decent championship quality players, and those won't be coming here. |
Yep, it without a doubt needs a big freshen up but pure quality wise you just aren't going to attract players better than a Downes.......if you do it will be someone who is 28 and doesn't have the same ceiling.
Cook is going for a short term win, which is totally understandable from his perspective, but the failing is in the structure that has yet to be built around him to ensure the long term isn't being jeapordised |  |
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| [Redacted] on 12:07 - Jun 15 with 1682 views | victorywilhappen |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 11:58 - Jun 15 by OriginalMarkyP |
So you know how mega talented Harper is do you?
He's a punt. Unless you've got a lot better info than anyone on here. We wanted him on loan and WBA said, give us 500k and you can have him. They don't rate him that highly clearly. Just because he's coming from a champ club means nothing. As i said Bennetts was from a top German club and utter pigswill. |
[Redacted] | | | |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:10 - Jun 15 with 1653 views | chrismakin |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:04 - Jun 15 by itfcjoe |
Yep, it without a doubt needs a big freshen up but pure quality wise you just aren't going to attract players better than a Downes.......if you do it will be someone who is 28 and doesn't have the same ceiling.
Cook is going for a short term win, which is totally understandable from his perspective, but the failing is in the structure that has yet to be built around him to ensure the long term isn't being jeapordised |
Short term win?
The 2 contracts signed so far are both 3 year deals. Not really short term.
All we're doing is selling 2 midfielders that want to leave. |  |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:13 - Jun 15 with 1637 views | Swansea_Blue |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:10 - Jun 15 by chrismakin |
Short term win?
The 2 contracts signed so far are both 3 year deals. Not really short term.
All we're doing is selling 2 midfielders that want to leave. |
That's a really important point and one that doesn't get enough coverage. If the players want to go then it's best for all parties, irrespective of whether or not we think they could do a job for us. |  |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:16 - Jun 15 with 1622 views | OriginalMarkyP |
Well, I'm not sure I'd say zeitgeist, in terms of spirit of the age would be an odd way to discribe a new signing. But if by that you mean what level of player would convince people that we are on the right track, I don't think you could easily put that on one player.
I think for a lot of people Charlie Wyke or Joe Piggott would settle a few nerves.
Personally I'd prefer Piggott, I'm not a massive Wyke fan, I think he benefitted from a side that created A LOT of chances. He seemed to miss often when ever I watched him. Piggott offers more in an attacking sense for me.
For me it (a zeitgeist signing) would be a stand out centre back. I'd love a Gareth McCauley/Town Mowbary figure because I think having a real combative leader at the back who is a guaranteed 7/10 every game makes a hell of a difference at this level. A player who can marshall those in front of him and all the players respect. Someone who the other players turn to when the going gets tough. That for me is what I mean by a landmark signing. Some who you really think will make a difference week in week out. Someone around 28-30. Not a name on the way out. I don't expect them to have to come from higher up the pyramid either, or though it would be nice. [Post edited 15 Jun 2021 12:18]
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:17 - Jun 15 with 1622 views | itfcjoe |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:13 - Jun 15 by Swansea_Blue |
That's a really important point and one that doesn't get enough coverage. If the players want to go then it's best for all parties, irrespective of whether or not we think they could do a job for us. |
We don't know this though - it's just been said that because Dozzell put a clause in his contract (when he extended it for 3 years just 6 months ago) that it is because he wants out.....
And at the moment, if players want out, a lot is linked to the fact that they have been told by the manager he wants shot of them! | |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:17 - Jun 15 with 1616 views | davblue |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:10 - Jun 15 by chrismakin |
Short term win?
The 2 contracts signed so far are both 3 year deals. Not really short term.
All we're doing is selling 2 midfielders that want to leave. |
He’s talking about age profiles of the players we are recruiting, not contract lengths. We are going for ready made battle hardened professionals, who we probably aren’t going to make millions of pounds on. Like a Downes, Dozzell etc they have more potential than either of our current recruits.
Joe please feel free to correct me. |  | | |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:18 - Jun 15 with 1605 views | tractorboy1978 |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:17 - Jun 15 by davblue |
He’s talking about age profiles of the players we are recruiting, not contract lengths. We are going for ready made battle hardened professionals, who we probably aren’t going to make millions of pounds on. Like a Downes, Dozzell etc they have more potential than either of our current recruits.
Joe please feel free to correct me. |
They are 26 not 36. And Harper is 21. [Post edited 15 Jun 2021 12:19]
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:23 - Jun 15 with 1578 views | Swansea_Blue |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:17 - Jun 15 by itfcjoe |
We don't know this though - it's just been said that because Dozzell put a clause in his contract (when he extended it for 3 years just 6 months ago) that it is because he wants out.....
And at the moment, if players want out, a lot is linked to the fact that they have been told by the manager he wants shot of them! |
Quite right - only IF they want to go. Downes was a bit miffed at missing out on a move last summer, but that may not be the case anymore of course.
I hope we can at least hang on to him despite the rumours of a move. | |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:24 - Jun 15 with 1577 views | chrismakin |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:17 - Jun 15 by itfcjoe |
We don't know this though - it's just been said that because Dozzell put a clause in his contract (when he extended it for 3 years just 6 months ago) that it is because he wants out.....
And at the moment, if players want out, a lot is linked to the fact that they have been told by the manager he wants shot of them! |
The minimal release clause was added in the middle of the season at the same time he's being linked with moves away... that's not a player who is happy to be here for the next 4 years. If he was and it was just about being as high as possible, the minimal release wouldn't be so low. We knew he was off, he knew he was off, this gets the club some funds for it.
Funnily enough there are players PC said they were ok to leave etc. they've been going in and working with our staff in prep for pre season and are raring to get going with town.
It is up to the players to show they want to play for town, not that PC needs to get on his knees and beg them to play for Town. | |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:24 - Jun 15 with 1576 views | itfcjoe |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:17 - Jun 15 by davblue |
He’s talking about age profiles of the players we are recruiting, not contract lengths. We are going for ready made battle hardened professionals, who we probably aren’t going to make millions of pounds on. Like a Downes, Dozzell etc they have more potential than either of our current recruits.
Joe please feel free to correct me. |
Maybe not age profiles so much, but potential sell ons and ability to go up through the divisions with us (Harper does fit that mould), but the 2 signings and a flurry of those linked with like Wyke, Power, Smallwood etc are not going to be those that come up the leagues with us to where we want to go.
Even when you look at Evans, he has been at Wolves and |Sheff U and ended up dropping back down from there.
Cook's job is to get us out of League 1 at the earliest opportunity, there needs to be someone keeping an eye on longer term, but that can't be Cook in this window. | |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:30 - Jun 15 with 1556 views | OriginalMarkyP |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:24 - Jun 15 by itfcjoe |
Maybe not age profiles so much, but potential sell ons and ability to go up through the divisions with us (Harper does fit that mould), but the 2 signings and a flurry of those linked with like Wyke, Power, Smallwood etc are not going to be those that come up the leagues with us to where we want to go.
Even when you look at Evans, he has been at Wolves and |Sheff U and ended up dropping back down from there.
Cook's job is to get us out of League 1 at the earliest opportunity, there needs to be someone keeping an eye on longer term, but that can't be Cook in this window. |
I do wonder if Cook's readiness to hang the players out to dry towards the end of last season is going to haunt us.
It shouldn't effect signing players he's worked with at previous clubs, but if we're one several clubs in for a player it's one more factor that could work against us.
From talking to a few of the old pros I know they thought calling players 'competition winners and pub team players' was really out of order whatever the circumstances. If I saw a potential new boss saying things like that about his current employees publically It would give me pause. | |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:31 - Jun 15 with 1550 views | chrismakin |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:24 - Jun 15 by itfcjoe |
Maybe not age profiles so much, but potential sell ons and ability to go up through the divisions with us (Harper does fit that mould), but the 2 signings and a flurry of those linked with like Wyke, Power, Smallwood etc are not going to be those that come up the leagues with us to where we want to go.
Even when you look at Evans, he has been at Wolves and |Sheff U and ended up dropping back down from there.
Cook's job is to get us out of League 1 at the earliest opportunity, there needs to be someone keeping an eye on longer term, but that can't be Cook in this window. |
Problem that Town have had is we've relied on the youth for important positions.
It's ok if we are bringing through a Downes. But relying on Downes and Dozzell, two inexperienced players in the grand scheme of things. Even at Champ level, You rarely see a pairing of yougsters together leading the team in probably the most important areas of the pitch. [Post edited 15 Jun 2021 12:38]
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:36 - Jun 15 with 1533 views | SuperCoops |
Calm down! Trust the process. Changes are coming.
Viva la revolution! |  | | |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:36 - Jun 15 with 1531 views | itfcjoe |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:24 - Jun 15 by chrismakin |
The minimal release clause was added in the middle of the season at the same time he's being linked with moves away... that's not a player who is happy to be here for the next 4 years. If he was and it was just about being as high as possible, the minimal release wouldn't be so low. We knew he was off, he knew he was off, this gets the club some funds for it.
Funnily enough there are players PC said they were ok to leave etc. they've been going in and working with our staff in prep for pre season and are raring to get going with town.
It is up to the players to show they want to play for town, not that PC needs to get on his knees and beg them to play for Town. |
If he didn't want to stay he just wouldn't have signed a new contract full stop, so you are just speculating here.
Andre Dozzell has been doing session at Christchurch Park with 3 other young pros nearly every day through this break. Through the extended break last year I saw him at the gym nearly every time I was there. DOes that show he wants to play for town?
He's just a good pro, who looks after himself as he always has done - if the manager has told players he wants them out then it's not this master man management technique that some seem to think.
Some will come back and carry on and work way back in, but will do it because they are pro's, not because they think much of Cook. It's vital that we get new signings in before pre season, 10 days or so, it could define the season | |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:39 - Jun 15 with 1511 views | chrismakin |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:36 - Jun 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Swansea's best centre half pairing this season were both 20 
Sorry, being a pedantic barsteward and you're probably right. I suspect that wasn't the plan had Scuse not missed the whole season. |
I know there would end up being one example lol
It probably was better for Dozzel that Skuse was injured as He probably would have ended up on the bench. | |
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:46 - Jun 15 with 1487 views | chrismakin |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 12:36 - Jun 15 by itfcjoe |
If he didn't want to stay he just wouldn't have signed a new contract full stop, so you are just speculating here.
Andre Dozzell has been doing session at Christchurch Park with 3 other young pros nearly every day through this break. Through the extended break last year I saw him at the gym nearly every time I was there. DOes that show he wants to play for town?
He's just a good pro, who looks after himself as he always has done - if the manager has told players he wants them out then it's not this master man management technique that some seem to think.
Some will come back and carry on and work way back in, but will do it because they are pro's, not because they think much of Cook. It's vital that we get new signings in before pre season, 10 days or so, it could define the season |
Cooks not there to win a popularity contest, just pick a winning side from players who want to win games for ipswich, if players can stand up and show they can and want to do that, brilliant PC has what he wants. Hopefully no more laughing and joking with opponents following a 0-0 draw from our players. Thats what we want as fans. And sorry but those that do stay will also have a want to play for PC, it's who he is. Despite your pal not liking him
I would like to believe Andre did indeed want to stay, but sorry, no way you'd have that very low release fee knowing full well you have 3 champ clubs linked with you and not be thinking of leaving. We will just have to agree to disagree [Post edited 15 Jun 2021 12:48]
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| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 13:45 - Jun 15 with 1380 views | Kropotkin123 |
| With Dozzell gone...and Downes being looked at... on 11:58 - Jun 15 by OriginalMarkyP |
So you know how mega talented Harper is do you?
He's a punt. Unless you've got a lot better info than anyone on here. We wanted him on loan and WBA said, give us 500k and you can have him. They don't rate him that highly clearly. Just because he's coming from a champ club means nothing. As i said Bennetts was from a top German club and utter pigswill. |
Dozzell is a punt for QPR. He'd be a punt for us keeping him for another season, based on his performances over the past 2 years. In no way does his departure create a need for a "landmark signing".
Yes, Bennetts was rubbish, so a bigger club showing or having shown interest in a player doesn't guarantee success and in turn doesn't require the need for "landmark" replacements.
.... and, just because Dozzell is leaving for a championship club, doesn't mean we rate him. Clearly we don't as we have sought buyers and made no effort to keep him. [Post edited 15 Jun 2021 13:47]
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