| This shames us all in Britain 21:32 - Jun 30 with 5676 views | Mullet |
Even if you allow for hyperbole, emoting and any margin for error this account and the context is dreadful. |  |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 10:02 - Jul 1 with 831 views | chicoazul |
| This shames us all in Britain on 09:31 - Jul 1 by Cotty |
Yes but that's because they've been paid a huge bribe by the government who were responsible for Brexit, and who need something to point to as a success. Along with their continued lies about the vaccine authorisation being sped up by Brexit. |
A lot of people are acting like the Govt having an industrial strategy and offering companies incentives to invest here is a bad thing and a “bribe”. Tax breaks have always been available for R and D for instance, is that a bribe? I don’t disagree with you btw. |  |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 10:03 - Jul 1 with 832 views | chicoazul |
| This shames us all in Britain on 09:50 - Jul 1 by Guthrum |
The issue is that the rules were drawn up to be a) maximally exclusionary, and b) degrading. Also, for that matter, c) unnecessarily complex.
If having been married to a UK citizen, why should this lady have to do anything more than produce a copy of her marriage certificate to gain settled status? As a taxpayer, HMRC will already have a paper trail going back decades, which could have been accessed automatically. Part of the problem is that successive governments have not themselves kept or retained proper records (or can't be bothered to use them at this time), nor did they tell/require individuals to do so.
Reminds me of the situation during the Enclosure acts of the 18th and 19th centuries, when people whose families had tilled the land as by right for centuries were dispossessed due to the lack of written documentation from a time when such did not actually exist. |
I don’t disagree at all. I’m just saying this sook crying on Twitter about having to fill in a complex form for his elderly inform parent doesn’t shame me at all thanks. | |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 10:12 - Jul 1 with 808 views | itfc_bucks |
| This shames us all in Britain on 09:33 - Jul 1 by Tonytown |
You seem to like it is the point that is being made |
thanks. I had thought that was obvious, but clearly it was not. |  | | |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:16 - Jul 1 with 791 views | itfc_bucks |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:03 - Jul 1 by chicoazul |
I don’t disagree at all. I’m just saying this sook crying on Twitter about having to fill in a complex form for his elderly inform parent doesn’t shame me at all thanks. |
and if she didn't have family who could manage it for her, then what? Deport her?
Serious question then - you appear to infer from the answer to which I'm replying, that you did indeed support/vote for Brexit.
In what way has it manifestly improved anything? | | | |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:24 - Jul 1 with 765 views | chicoazul |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:16 - Jul 1 by itfc_bucks |
and if she didn't have family who could manage it for her, then what? Deport her?
Serious question then - you appear to infer from the answer to which I'm replying, that you did indeed support/vote for Brexit.
In what way has it manifestly improved anything? |
Here is your answer; I didn’t vote for Brexit, it’s a stupid idea and it hasn’t made anything better. I also fwiw don’t think it has made anything particularly worse other than some bumps in the road for eg Ireland which the EU have already rowed back on twice. I am now convicned things will be as they always are in this country post Brexit ; more or less the same for more or less everyone. | |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 10:28 - Jul 1 with 762 views | Guthrum |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:03 - Jul 1 by chicoazul |
I don’t disagree at all. I’m just saying this sook crying on Twitter about having to fill in a complex form for his elderly inform parent doesn’t shame me at all thanks. |
In this case I read it as "shame" as in "embarrassment at the disgrace of it all". That we, in a democracy, have let things get to this stage by electing the governments we have. Hiding behind "well I didn't vote for them", then retreating into tribalism, squabbling and demands for perfection, while the ethicless pragmatists technically manipulate their way into power, backed by cui bono money. |  |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 10:31 - Jul 1 with 752 views | chicoazul |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:28 - Jul 1 by Guthrum |
In this case I read it as "shame" as in "embarrassment at the disgrace of it all". That we, in a democracy, have let things get to this stage by electing the governments we have. Hiding behind "well I didn't vote for them", then retreating into tribalism, squabbling and demands for perfection, while the ethicless pragmatists technically manipulate their way into power, backed by cui bono money. |
Hey I haven’t voted since 2001 so don’t blame me. Nobody represents my position anymore. | |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 10:40 - Jul 1 with 740 views | Guthrum |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:31 - Jul 1 by chicoazul |
Hey I haven’t voted since 2001 so don’t blame me. Nobody represents my position anymore. |
Loads of people say that. I feel the same way myself, tho I do tend to vote, for the candidate who I think would do the best job (or who is the least unethical). But that doesn't absolve us of all responsibility. We are part of this society and the populace are the only ones who are in a position to change anything.
If there are millions who feel that way, why is nobody doing anything to cater for that? Is it a lack of desire to compromise, which would be essential in creating a mass movement? Is it a sense of resignation due to tribalist inertia? Or is everybody simply too busy until things have already gone in the wrong direction? | |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 10:46 - Jul 1 with 724 views | longtimefan |
The process sounds completely inappropriate for someone elderly with limited IT skills, let alone dementia. That said, the four EU nationals in our small office all had no problems doing it. It does sound as though it’s almost identical to the process of registering for the NHS App and getting the enhanced identification features enabled. This required security codes both via email and mobile, along with providing photo of your passport and a face scan. | | | |
| This shames us all in Britain on 11:01 - Jul 1 with 708 views | Swansea_Blue |
"There will be no change for EU citizens already lawfully resident in the UK. These EU citizens will automatically be granted indefinite leave to remain in the UK and will be treated no less favourably than they are at present." - Signed by Johnson, Gove, Patel & Stewart on 1st June 2016.
"It's irresponsible to scare EU nationals in the UK by hinting that their status might change after Brexit. No one's suggesting such a thing." Daniel Hannan, 3rd June 2016.
Clearly broken promises by Vote Leave and the PM, two cabinet ministers + one member of the House of Lords.
The shame should be not only for how we are treating people who've built their lives in our country, but also for the trust we've put in a bunch of obvious liars. Too many people are both cruel and stupid. |  |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 11:03 - Jul 1 with 707 views | Guthrum |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:40 - Jul 1 by Guthrum |
Loads of people say that. I feel the same way myself, tho I do tend to vote, for the candidate who I think would do the best job (or who is the least unethical). But that doesn't absolve us of all responsibility. We are part of this society and the populace are the only ones who are in a position to change anything.
If there are millions who feel that way, why is nobody doing anything to cater for that? Is it a lack of desire to compromise, which would be essential in creating a mass movement? Is it a sense of resignation due to tribalist inertia? Or is everybody simply too busy until things have already gone in the wrong direction? |
In essence, British politics is the antithesis of a free market. A monopolistic, closed-shop arrangement in which only Conservative and Labour really get to play (with minor influence from the LibDems and strictly regional parties). There is minimal freedom of choice for electors. | |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 11:24 - Jul 1 with 684 views | chicoazul |
| This shames us all in Britain on 11:03 - Jul 1 by Guthrum |
In essence, British politics is the antithesis of a free market. A monopolistic, closed-shop arrangement in which only Conservative and Labour really get to play (with minor influence from the LibDems and strictly regional parties). There is minimal freedom of choice for electors. |
And yet both Labour and the Tories were in very large part anti Brexit. Solution to the problem you outline; We should have more referendums. | |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 11:28 - Jul 1 with 675 views | Cotty |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:02 - Jul 1 by chicoazul |
A lot of people are acting like the Govt having an industrial strategy and offering companies incentives to invest here is a bad thing and a “bribe”. Tax breaks have always been available for R and D for instance, is that a bribe? I don’t disagree with you btw. |
I agree, and that language was probably not useful. The point is that you can't claim that this happened because of/despite Brexit when the government have plenty of political capital to gain from making very generous offers for companies to stay here. Is it money well spent, in comparison with the money we spent on membership of the EU? That's the question we need to ask ourselves. |  | | |
| This shames us all in Britain on 11:29 - Jul 1 with 667 views | Ryorry |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:40 - Jul 1 by Guthrum |
Loads of people say that. I feel the same way myself, tho I do tend to vote, for the candidate who I think would do the best job (or who is the least unethical). But that doesn't absolve us of all responsibility. We are part of this society and the populace are the only ones who are in a position to change anything.
If there are millions who feel that way, why is nobody doing anything to cater for that? Is it a lack of desire to compromise, which would be essential in creating a mass movement? Is it a sense of resignation due to tribalist inertia? Or is everybody simply too busy until things have already gone in the wrong direction? |
"We are part of this society and the populace are the only ones who are in a position to change anything ...
If there are millions who feel that way, why is nobody doing anything to cater for that? Is it a lack of desire to compromise ..."
Wasn't/isn't it the problem that unfortunately Farage (& the ERG) jumped into exactly that gap, as a result of the anger of huge numbers of people not being addressed re the problems caused by Tory "austerity" measures? |  |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 15:33 - Jul 1 with 614 views | Guthrum |
| This shames us all in Britain on 11:24 - Jul 1 by chicoazul |
And yet both Labour and the Tories were in very large part anti Brexit. Solution to the problem you outline; We should have more referendums. |
Nowt wrong with referendums.
The problems with 2016 were how it was conducted (the side proposing a change to the status quo was not required to clearly define its position or make detailed proposals, the other side sunk in complacency) and the shambolic way in which the result was implemented (months of fannying around with "Brexit means Brexit", still no proper proposals set out, then poorly-conducted negotiations and flirting with No Deal).
Half of the cr@p such as outlined in the OP could have been avoided, being not so much an inevitable result of Brexit, but the inept way it was carried out. | |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 15:50 - Jul 1 with 599 views | Guthrum |
| This shames us all in Britain on 11:29 - Jul 1 by Ryorry |
"We are part of this society and the populace are the only ones who are in a position to change anything ...
If there are millions who feel that way, why is nobody doing anything to cater for that? Is it a lack of desire to compromise ..."
Wasn't/isn't it the problem that unfortunately Farage (& the ERG) jumped into exactly that gap, as a result of the anger of huge numbers of people not being addressed re the problems caused by Tory "austerity" measures? |
Yes. And nobody prominent made an effective job of standing up for the opposite side. Too many assumed Remain would win. Leave were allowed to conflate austerity hardships with membership of the EU. Media use was ineffectual. Some political parties stood aloof as they wanted to lead the movement themselves. There was no Remain equivalent of UKIP around which to coalesce. | |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 16:12 - Jul 1 with 585 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| This shames us all in Britain on 10:31 - Jul 1 by chicoazul |
Hey I haven’t voted since 2001 so don’t blame me. Nobody represents my position anymore. |
Are you seriously proudly boasting of the fact that you have neglected your democratic rights, that other people have paid for with their lives to protect?
What if everybody did that? | | | |
| This shames us all in Britain on 16:16 - Jul 1 with 578 views | WeWereZombies |
| This shames us all in Britain on 16:12 - Jul 1 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Are you seriously proudly boasting of the fact that you have neglected your democratic rights, that other people have paid for with their lives to protect?
What if everybody did that? |
Then all the politicians would be out of a job...
And the mafiosi would have to come out into the open to run things...but they would be a little less scary as they would be saving that 'greasing the palms' money. |  |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 19:33 - Jul 1 with 532 views | Clapham_Junction |
| This shames us all in Britain on 15:33 - Jul 1 by Guthrum |
Nowt wrong with referendums.
The problems with 2016 were how it was conducted (the side proposing a change to the status quo was not required to clearly define its position or make detailed proposals, the other side sunk in complacency) and the shambolic way in which the result was implemented (months of fannying around with "Brexit means Brexit", still no proper proposals set out, then poorly-conducted negotiations and flirting with No Deal).
Half of the cr@p such as outlined in the OP could have been avoided, being not so much an inevitable result of Brexit, but the inept way it was carried out. |
Personally I think referendums are largely a bad idea.
Many issues are far too complex to be understood by the general public and decisions on them should be reserved for politicians who are elected to exercise their judgement and are guided by experts in the civil service.
Part of the role of politicians is to lead public opinion in a progressive direction and enact reforms that are the right thing to do, even if there is not necessarily public support for it at the time. A country reliant on referendums for public decision making often ends up being quite backwards - the reason Switzerland did not grant the women the right to vote until the 1970s and Liechtenstein until the 1980s was because women's suffrage could only be granted by a referendum. Two-thirds of (male) voters rejected women's suffrage in a 1959 referendum in Switzerland, and it was rejected three times in Liechtenstein
IMO the only things referendums should be used for are decisions that have no real political implications - perhaps stuff like choosing a new national anthem or flag. |  | | |
| This shames us all in Britain on 19:58 - Jul 1 with 516 views | chicoazul |
| This shames us all in Britain on 16:12 - Jul 1 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Are you seriously proudly boasting of the fact that you have neglected your democratic rights, that other people have paid for with their lives to protect?
What if everybody did that? |
Ah the old paid with their lives gambit. Tell me, did they pay with their lives so I could NOT vote for people I didn’t like? Or does it not work that way? | |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 20:05 - Jul 1 with 505 views | jeera |
| This shames us all in Britain on 19:58 - Jul 1 by chicoazul |
Ah the old paid with their lives gambit. Tell me, did they pay with their lives so I could NOT vote for people I didn’t like? Or does it not work that way? |
There really does need to be the option where people can say on a voting slip that they have no confidence in anyone standing so they can still exercise their right to be heard through the same process.
There has been times I have voted in protest but without conviction and it doesn't feel right when what I really want to say isn't an option available to me. |  |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 20:07 - Jul 1 with 501 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| This shames us all in Britain on 19:58 - Jul 1 by chicoazul |
Ah the old paid with their lives gambit. Tell me, did they pay with their lives so I could NOT vote for people I didn’t like? Or does it not work that way? |
We're talking about a yes/no Referendum, not people.
Obviously you have the right to not vote, but that doesn't exempt you from responsibility for the outcome. | | | |
| This shames us all in Britain on 20:24 - Jul 1 with 482 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This shames us all in Britain on 16:12 - Jul 1 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Are you seriously proudly boasting of the fact that you have neglected your democratic rights, that other people have paid for with their lives to protect?
What if everybody did that? |
It's a personal choice and people shouldn't be made to feel bad about it imo. I think it's the wrong decision, and we could justifiably talk about hard won rights and those who are denied the right, etc., but I'm still happy to defend people's right to abstain.
I do however think there's a strong case for those abstaining to not have a voice in the subsequent discussion. | |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 20:38 - Jul 1 with 468 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This shames us all in Britain on 16:12 - Jul 1 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Are you seriously proudly boasting of the fact that you have neglected your democratic rights, that other people have paid for with their lives to protect?
What if everybody did that? |
I didn't vote in the last GE
Nobody represented me
So shoot me! |  |
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| This shames us all in Britain on 20:49 - Jul 1 with 459 views | gtsb1966 |
| This shames us all in Britain on 20:38 - Jul 1 by Lord_Lucan |
I didn't vote in the last GE
Nobody represented me
So shoot me! |
I haven't voted in the last three. |  | | |
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