| Lewis a naughty boy? 15:06 - Jul 18 with 5633 views | bluelagos |
One hell of a half lap.... |  |
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:00 - Jul 18 with 1528 views | solomon |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 16:47 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Yet both the commentators on the BBC thought it was a racing incident including an ex F1 driver.
It's all very subjective it seems. Perhaps my interpretation is wrong but it seems there are many interpretations.
I think of the situation was reversed Max wouldn't have acted any different to Hamilton.
They are both racing on the limit. I don't think Lewis intentionally took him out Schumacher style which would be nasty as you say.
SB [Post edited 18 Jul 2021 16:52]
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I just think this isn’t how I want to see LH racing this year, it smacks of desperation. I think there’s going to be enormous pressure on the FIA to levy another penalty on Lewis, expect to see another point added to his super license, if the tables had been turned many brits would be calling for ban for Max. |  | | |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:03 - Jul 18 with 1514 views | WD19 |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:00 - Jul 18 by solomon |
I just think this isn’t how I want to see LH racing this year, it smacks of desperation. I think there’s going to be enormous pressure on the FIA to levy another penalty on Lewis, expect to see another point added to his super license, if the tables had been turned many brits would be calling for ban for Max. |
Nah. They both just have equally sharp elbows.
Unlike Leclerc who just bottled it. |  | | |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:06 - Jul 18 with 1503 views | StokieBlue |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:00 - Jul 18 by solomon |
I just think this isn’t how I want to see LH racing this year, it smacks of desperation. I think there’s going to be enormous pressure on the FIA to levy another penalty on Lewis, expect to see another point added to his super license, if the tables had been turned many brits would be calling for ban for Max. |
Seems you can overtake at that corner contrary to what Horner insisted earlier.
As I said, it seems lots of people see it very differently.
SB |  |
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:06 - Jul 18 with 1505 views | WD19 |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:03 - Jul 18 by WD19 |
Nah. They both just have equally sharp elbows.
Unlike Leclerc who just bottled it. |
Oh, and congratulations to Max Verstappen who (according to the fan vote) was the 3rd best performing driver today.
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:08 - Jul 18 with 1482 views | MerseyBlue |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:06 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Seems you can overtake at that corner contrary to what Horner insisted earlier.
As I said, it seems lots of people see it very differently.
SB |
Absolutely, and to be honest it looked like he left Leclerc less room than Verstappen. Cracking finish. |  |
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:09 - Jul 18 with 1481 views | J4ck22 |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:06 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Seems you can overtake at that corner contrary to what Horner insisted earlier.
As I said, it seems lots of people see it very differently.
SB |
Yes and Leclerc had to leave the track to avoid another incident. |  | | |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:18 - Jul 18 with 1438 views | solomon |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:06 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Seems you can overtake at that corner contrary to what Horner insisted earlier.
As I said, it seems lots of people see it very differently.
SB |
I think the 2 scenarios are vastly different, gutted for Max , this elevates what’s safe and what isn’t with possibly dire consequences. | | | |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:21 - Jul 18 with 1426 views | StokieBlue |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:18 - Jul 18 by solomon |
I think the 2 scenarios are vastly different, gutted for Max , this elevates what’s safe and what isn’t with possibly dire consequences. |
Max used to weave all over the track to stop people getting past, we was incredibly dangerous and many veteran drivers called him out on it. In our nearly caused a fight with Raikonen.
Did he get the same comments on here that Hamilton is getting now?
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:27 - Jul 18 with 1403 views | bluelagos |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:21 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Max used to weave all over the track to stop people getting past, we was incredibly dangerous and many veteran drivers called him out on it. In our nearly caused a fight with Raikonen.
Did he get the same comments on here that Hamilton is getting now?
SB |
Two wrongs dont make a right Stokie!
Lewis raced brilliantly today but for me that is a deeply unsatisfying incident. The stewards agreed Hamilton was at fault, yet the punishment was soft enough to allow Hamilton a top 3 finish (accept he did brilliant to regain 1st) | |
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:28 - Jul 18 with 1401 views | J4ck22 |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:21 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Max used to weave all over the track to stop people getting past, we was incredibly dangerous and many veteran drivers called him out on it. In our nearly caused a fight with Raikonen.
Did he get the same comments on here that Hamilton is getting now?
SB |
I don't know about on here, but Max took loads of criticism for his antics in the past, which he has largely moved past. His past is pretty irrelevant here though as I think both of Lewis' moves on that corner were highly reckless regardless and doesn't really match up with Max's defending. | | | |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:37 - Jul 18 with 1370 views | StokieBlue |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:27 - Jul 18 by bluelagos |
Two wrongs dont make a right Stokie!
Lewis raced brilliantly today but for me that is a deeply unsatisfying incident. The stewards agreed Hamilton was at fault, yet the punishment was soft enough to allow Hamilton a top 3 finish (accept he did brilliant to regain 1st) |
The stewards are completely unpredictable though, there is no consistency so this type of stuff is going to continue to happen. They penalised Russell in the sprint race for very little as well.
The punishment has never been harsh in F1 really. Let's see if anything else follows with regards to punishments.
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:38 - Jul 18 with 1364 views | StokieBlue |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:28 - Jul 18 by J4ck22 |
I don't know about on here, but Max took loads of criticism for his antics in the past, which he has largely moved past. His past is pretty irrelevant here though as I think both of Lewis' moves on that corner were highly reckless regardless and doesn't really match up with Max's defending. |
If both were reckless then surely he should get a penalty for the second one? Actually having an accident shouldn't be the criteria should it?
The inconsistency of the stewards from race to race is the big problem here in my view. As I've said, you've got some ex drivers saying penalty and some saying racing incident, there is no consistency because the rules aren't clear.
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:43 - Jul 18 with 1355 views | bluelagos |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:37 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
The stewards are completely unpredictable though, there is no consistency so this type of stuff is going to continue to happen. They penalised Russell in the sprint race for very little as well.
The punishment has never been harsh in F1 really. Let's see if anything else follows with regards to punishments.
SB |
Can it be looked at after the stewards have investigated and given a penalty? | |
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:49 - Jul 18 with 1327 views | MerseyBlue |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:21 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Max used to weave all over the track to stop people getting past, we was incredibly dangerous and many veteran drivers called him out on it. In our nearly caused a fight with Raikonen.
Did he get the same comments on here that Hamilton is getting now?
SB |
Max was weaving pretty dangerously at the start of the lap, Hamilton yielded on that occasion. I really think it has been overplayed by the C4 team and Horner, there was plenty of opportunity for Verstappen to yield as well. Hamilton made 3 overtakes on the same corner - Verstappen was stubborn, Norris knew he had no chance, and Leclerc lost control. Glad Max is alright, but based on the evidence, he would have done exactly the same had the roles been reversed. All of the drivers are to some extent ego-maniacs, Max and Lewis just happen to be the biggest ones fighting it out. | |
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 18:07 - Jul 18 with 1293 views | StokieBlue |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:43 - Jul 18 by bluelagos |
Can it be looked at after the stewards have investigated and given a penalty? |
I believe so, I think they can also add points to his licence and when he gets enough he will miss a race.
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 18:27 - Jul 18 with 1268 views | chrismakin |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 17:00 - Jul 18 by solomon |
I just think this isn’t how I want to see LH racing this year, it smacks of desperation. I think there’s going to be enormous pressure on the FIA to levy another penalty on Lewis, expect to see another point added to his super license, if the tables had been turned many brits would be calling for ban for Max. |
Its embarrassing how Horner etc is acting.
It's ok for Max to weave about during the sprint race
It's ok for Max to push cars off the track
But max causing his own downfall is on lewis.....
Lewis had the inside line. Max knew this. He turned into lewis saw him there had the opportunity to move off the racing line and take the run off but moved even more to the righ into lewis.
If anything it's a racing incident. Lewis would have gone onto the kirb had it not been for understeer.
Both drivers could have done more.. hence racing incident. [Post edited 18 Jul 2021 18:30]
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 18:32 - Jul 18 with 1253 views | chrismakin |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 18:07 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
I believe so, I think they can also add points to his licence and when he gets enough he will miss a race.
SB |
If the do anything more they will leave themselves open way to much. Even the 10 second pen was based on the speed of the incident not the actual incident and the reaction of the red bull team. | |
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 19:24 - Jul 18 with 1215 views | stonojnr |
for me there just isnt an inside line overtake at Copse in F1, in touring cars maybe because you can lean on the car on the outside to help your round and they go off but normally can keep going, but you cant drive two F1 cars through their side by side safely because the inside car will always push the outside car towards exiting the track at very high speed. because where the inside car needs to be is where the outside car is.
So its a very aggressive overtake IMO at a very dangerous part of the track, which seems weird Lewis is then complaining Max is aggressive, because to go up the inside there you give the driver on the outside the choice of having a very big crash, thats a 180mph corner, taken flat in modern F1 cars, the older F1 cars drivers always did a confidence lift, and theyd never have tried to overtake there because it would have had lethal consequences, or get out the way somehow, which just as easily ends up with the outside driver in the barrier still, and Lewis was always going to be forced out to the left on the exit because thats just the line his speed he was carrying would take him.
because if the line through the corner was faster on the inside and exited where the old pit lane is, thats the line they would all be taking as it would be quicker, and its not, so that tells you something about which driver was taking the corner in the normal way, and which was possibly gambling about who would blink first.
I mean Max was always going to have to turn right at some point else not make the corner at all, and he did give Lewis a cars width he didnt chop across his car as some have suggested, it wasnt space for both to coexist on the same part of track, obviously Max is not conceeding the position at that point, but I guarantee if the roles were reversed and Max had pulled that kind of move on Lewis and dumped him in that barrier, Lewis/Merc would be complaning about what a hot headed Max was and demanding he was banned for how stupidly dangerous it was.
I mean yeah Lewis repeated it again on LeClerc, completely unnecessarily I thought as Lewis had tons more speed, and could have overtaken at any point later on that lap, and LeClercs reaction was I dont want to end up in the barrier at 180mph, and was probably fortunate to keep all 4 wheels pointing the right way as he had to get out of the way.
but thats what the inside overtake move does, the guy on the outside has the choice of crashing hard, or hoping they keep it all together on the runoff/kerbs and dont crash still.
those really arent the kinds of choices you should be giving your fellow drivers in a sport which can have serious consequences when they crash at such high speeds | | | |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 19:29 - Jul 18 with 1207 views | chrismakin |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 19:24 - Jul 18 by stonojnr |
for me there just isnt an inside line overtake at Copse in F1, in touring cars maybe because you can lean on the car on the outside to help your round and they go off but normally can keep going, but you cant drive two F1 cars through their side by side safely because the inside car will always push the outside car towards exiting the track at very high speed. because where the inside car needs to be is where the outside car is.
So its a very aggressive overtake IMO at a very dangerous part of the track, which seems weird Lewis is then complaining Max is aggressive, because to go up the inside there you give the driver on the outside the choice of having a very big crash, thats a 180mph corner, taken flat in modern F1 cars, the older F1 cars drivers always did a confidence lift, and theyd never have tried to overtake there because it would have had lethal consequences, or get out the way somehow, which just as easily ends up with the outside driver in the barrier still, and Lewis was always going to be forced out to the left on the exit because thats just the line his speed he was carrying would take him.
because if the line through the corner was faster on the inside and exited where the old pit lane is, thats the line they would all be taking as it would be quicker, and its not, so that tells you something about which driver was taking the corner in the normal way, and which was possibly gambling about who would blink first.
I mean Max was always going to have to turn right at some point else not make the corner at all, and he did give Lewis a cars width he didnt chop across his car as some have suggested, it wasnt space for both to coexist on the same part of track, obviously Max is not conceeding the position at that point, but I guarantee if the roles were reversed and Max had pulled that kind of move on Lewis and dumped him in that barrier, Lewis/Merc would be complaning about what a hot headed Max was and demanding he was banned for how stupidly dangerous it was.
I mean yeah Lewis repeated it again on LeClerc, completely unnecessarily I thought as Lewis had tons more speed, and could have overtaken at any point later on that lap, and LeClercs reaction was I dont want to end up in the barrier at 180mph, and was probably fortunate to keep all 4 wheels pointing the right way as he had to get out of the way.
but thats what the inside overtake move does, the guy on the outside has the choice of crashing hard, or hoping they keep it all together on the runoff/kerbs and dont crash still.
those really arent the kinds of choices you should be giving your fellow drivers in a sport which can have serious consequences when they crash at such high speeds |
Thing is. They are about to change into cars that can follow at fast speeds in 2022.. if racing at your limits is throwned upon then there is no point changing the cars to make it more exciting. | |
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 19:42 - Jul 18 with 1190 views | Ftnfwest |
If it had been anyone else the it would now be Hamilton’s title again as anyone else going into a tight or fast corner with him in the remaining races will back off. Verstappen though is probably mad enough to do it again. |  | | |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 19:51 - Jul 18 with 1178 views | Ely_Blue |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 15:28 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
Disagree, Hamilton was there and Max launched into the corner, Hamilton didn't drift out anywhere.
Max drives like that all the time, it's out of order for Horner to be on the radio to the stewards - people could have done that about Max so many times historically. He just doesn't want Hamilton to get any points in the race.
BBC saying can't predict the stewards. Merc on the radio saying he was alongside. We will see.
SB [Post edited 18 Jul 2021 15:29]
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I think what has happened is MV is an aggressive driver, LH has by and large yielded to him in the past and has now got to the point of standing up to the aggressive young bully boy.
MV turned in on LH, not sure that he even deserved a 10 second penalty.
If LH deserves a ban for that incident then how come MV hasn’t had a ban in the past for his aggressive driving? |  |
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 19:54 - Jul 18 with 1171 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 19:24 - Jul 18 by stonojnr |
for me there just isnt an inside line overtake at Copse in F1, in touring cars maybe because you can lean on the car on the outside to help your round and they go off but normally can keep going, but you cant drive two F1 cars through their side by side safely because the inside car will always push the outside car towards exiting the track at very high speed. because where the inside car needs to be is where the outside car is.
So its a very aggressive overtake IMO at a very dangerous part of the track, which seems weird Lewis is then complaining Max is aggressive, because to go up the inside there you give the driver on the outside the choice of having a very big crash, thats a 180mph corner, taken flat in modern F1 cars, the older F1 cars drivers always did a confidence lift, and theyd never have tried to overtake there because it would have had lethal consequences, or get out the way somehow, which just as easily ends up with the outside driver in the barrier still, and Lewis was always going to be forced out to the left on the exit because thats just the line his speed he was carrying would take him.
because if the line through the corner was faster on the inside and exited where the old pit lane is, thats the line they would all be taking as it would be quicker, and its not, so that tells you something about which driver was taking the corner in the normal way, and which was possibly gambling about who would blink first.
I mean Max was always going to have to turn right at some point else not make the corner at all, and he did give Lewis a cars width he didnt chop across his car as some have suggested, it wasnt space for both to coexist on the same part of track, obviously Max is not conceeding the position at that point, but I guarantee if the roles were reversed and Max had pulled that kind of move on Lewis and dumped him in that barrier, Lewis/Merc would be complaning about what a hot headed Max was and demanding he was banned for how stupidly dangerous it was.
I mean yeah Lewis repeated it again on LeClerc, completely unnecessarily I thought as Lewis had tons more speed, and could have overtaken at any point later on that lap, and LeClercs reaction was I dont want to end up in the barrier at 180mph, and was probably fortunate to keep all 4 wheels pointing the right way as he had to get out of the way.
but thats what the inside overtake move does, the guy on the outside has the choice of crashing hard, or hoping they keep it all together on the runoff/kerbs and dont crash still.
those really arent the kinds of choices you should be giving your fellow drivers in a sport which can have serious consequences when they crash at such high speeds |
Why is that the only result for the car on the outside? They also have the option of lifting more than they would like and taking it wider, just because they’re on the preferred racing line doesn’t give them the right to take the corner exactly as they’d like when there is a car alongside them, as Hamilton was in both of the instances you cite
He also passed Norris there with neither car leaving the track. So 3 attempted overtakes with 2 successful on a corner that some are arguing is ridiculous to attempt a pass on |  |
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 20:15 - Jul 18 with 1146 views | bringonthetractor |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 19:51 - Jul 18 by Ely_Blue |
I think what has happened is MV is an aggressive driver, LH has by and large yielded to him in the past and has now got to the point of standing up to the aggressive young bully boy.
MV turned in on LH, not sure that he even deserved a 10 second penalty.
If LH deserves a ban for that incident then how come MV hasn’t had a ban in the past for his aggressive driving? |
100% this.
Verstappen has always been an aggressive and at times borderline dirty driver, not leaving space, squeezing other drivers off the track, double movements and late moves in the breaking zone...
Several times earlier this season Hamilton has sensibly backed out of moves to avoid contact and done Verstappen a big favour. But with all the trash talk from Horner, Verstappen and Helmut Marko over the last few weeks I think he's decided to stop letting Verstappen be a bully.
All this talk about unsportsmanlike conduct and disrespect from Red Bull. It's far past time Verstappen learnt how to respect other drivers and race safely wheel to wheel.
This incident has been coming all season.
Edit: also I was not surprised in the least to see Hamilton penalised despite it being a clear racing incident. At least he won anyway. [Post edited 18 Jul 2021 20:17]
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| Lewis a naughty boy? on 20:40 - Jul 18 with 1108 views | BlueSpark |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 19:24 - Jul 18 by stonojnr |
for me there just isnt an inside line overtake at Copse in F1, in touring cars maybe because you can lean on the car on the outside to help your round and they go off but normally can keep going, but you cant drive two F1 cars through their side by side safely because the inside car will always push the outside car towards exiting the track at very high speed. because where the inside car needs to be is where the outside car is.
So its a very aggressive overtake IMO at a very dangerous part of the track, which seems weird Lewis is then complaining Max is aggressive, because to go up the inside there you give the driver on the outside the choice of having a very big crash, thats a 180mph corner, taken flat in modern F1 cars, the older F1 cars drivers always did a confidence lift, and theyd never have tried to overtake there because it would have had lethal consequences, or get out the way somehow, which just as easily ends up with the outside driver in the barrier still, and Lewis was always going to be forced out to the left on the exit because thats just the line his speed he was carrying would take him.
because if the line through the corner was faster on the inside and exited where the old pit lane is, thats the line they would all be taking as it would be quicker, and its not, so that tells you something about which driver was taking the corner in the normal way, and which was possibly gambling about who would blink first.
I mean Max was always going to have to turn right at some point else not make the corner at all, and he did give Lewis a cars width he didnt chop across his car as some have suggested, it wasnt space for both to coexist on the same part of track, obviously Max is not conceeding the position at that point, but I guarantee if the roles were reversed and Max had pulled that kind of move on Lewis and dumped him in that barrier, Lewis/Merc would be complaning about what a hot headed Max was and demanding he was banned for how stupidly dangerous it was.
I mean yeah Lewis repeated it again on LeClerc, completely unnecessarily I thought as Lewis had tons more speed, and could have overtaken at any point later on that lap, and LeClercs reaction was I dont want to end up in the barrier at 180mph, and was probably fortunate to keep all 4 wheels pointing the right way as he had to get out of the way.
but thats what the inside overtake move does, the guy on the outside has the choice of crashing hard, or hoping they keep it all together on the runoff/kerbs and dont crash still.
those really arent the kinds of choices you should be giving your fellow drivers in a sport which can have serious consequences when they crash at such high speeds |
Spot on. I think most people aren't understanding how important the specific corner is to incident and how the 'racing line' is through it.
It's VERY fast, a car on the outside can pretty much flat out that corner, Hamilton on the inside has no chance to match that speed and make the corner.
Hamilton should have yielded since he was never ahead.
He didn't, because racing happens at insane speeds,100ms or less time to decide whether you can stick it or not. He got lucky in so many ways today; the fact Max is okay and that Hamiltons' car is too. | | | |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 20:50 - Jul 18 with 1081 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Lewis a naughty boy? on 20:40 - Jul 18 by BlueSpark |
Spot on. I think most people aren't understanding how important the specific corner is to incident and how the 'racing line' is through it.
It's VERY fast, a car on the outside can pretty much flat out that corner, Hamilton on the inside has no chance to match that speed and make the corner.
Hamilton should have yielded since he was never ahead.
He didn't, because racing happens at insane speeds,100ms or less time to decide whether you can stick it or not. He got lucky in so many ways today; the fact Max is okay and that Hamiltons' car is too. |
If a car on the outside can take that corner flat out, why did Max turn in? |  |
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