| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... 08:51 - Aug 4 with 16942 views | itfcjoe |
....as can't see any new signings being any more than a bench option.
Sounds as though Fraser and Edmundson won't be fit, and would presume Chaplin not ready to start.
Does leave us a bit thin as really it will be 10 outfield players from 12 starting
KVY, Donacien
Woolf, Nsiala
Penney
Evans, Harper
Dobra, Burns
Bonne, Norwood, Pigott
Will have to be 442 with one of Bonne or Norwood joining Donacien on the bench |  |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 17:50 - Aug 5 with 1554 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 17:38 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're tweaking the detail a bit there and building a straw man. People AREN'T simply saying that promotion has to be the aim this season and a failure to achieve it would be a significant one. Because I'd agree with that. What I disagree on is that it should necessarily lead to Cook being fired. That's a very important bit you've left out, that many are advocating (I think including yourself, unless I'm wrong).
Don't try and twist it - if you think no promotion = the sack then say that rather than watering it down to make your point right. |
Who has said he'd definitely need to be sacked if we don't go up? I've said there'd need to be serious mitigation for him not to be, given that failure to take us up would be a failure to meet the expectations set for him. I think he'd see it that way himself to be honest. [Post edited 5 Aug 2021 17:51]
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 17:56 - Aug 5 with 1539 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 17:36 - Aug 5 by timothyeo |
The low expectations are what made me start posting on here! I couldn't believe what I was reading.
With the money we've spent, the squad we've got, and the manager (I don't see anything great about him but i'm told from others on here he's one of the divisions best, and i'm happy to give him a chance and go with that) we should be expecting promotion this season via top 2. If it happens via play-offs we wouldn't complain, but expectation should be top two.
We should also be expecting to beat Morecambe. Any less is a failure first game in. |
You realise this is totally a new team, and unlike a computer game they won't necessarily gel immediately? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 17:58 - Aug 5 with 1534 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 17:41 - Aug 5 by timothyeo |
For me, if we're not in touching distance of top 2 when we get towards January we should start looking elsewhere, I imagine the owners will do anyway. |
So you'd basically give a brand new team 5 months to gel and be pissing the league or the manager gets sacked?
No, I'm pretty confident the owners aren't that stupid. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:06 - Aug 5 with 1518 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 17:50 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
Who has said he'd definitely need to be sacked if we don't go up? I've said there'd need to be serious mitigation for him not to be, given that failure to take us up would be a failure to meet the expectations set for him. I think he'd see it that way himself to be honest. [Post edited 5 Aug 2021 17:51]
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Plenty are saying promotion or nothing. You seem to be skirting around the issue.
If you can see progress is being made, but for one reason or another we don't actually get promoted, would you want to keep Cook (or sack him anyway)? If you'd want to keep him then we're in agreement. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:26 - Aug 5 with 1486 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 17:03 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
So who are they then? Because so far nobody is saying we need to be top after the first couple of months, people are simply saying that promotion has to be the aim this season and a failure to achieve it would be a significant one. That's how Cook and his bosses see it. |
You for example. I wouldn't be surprised at all if you were one of them given the way in which you used to bash Cook's two predecessors. Of course they have been the clubs worst ever managers but you need to remember that the players they worked with have been the worst ever group of players in the history of ITFC. Relegated without a fight, two awful seasons in League One yet you defended these slackers. You defended the 'certain ones'.
People also knocked Cook in the last two months of last season for not making an impact with ... 'one of the best squads in the league' 😂
It's all about where we are after 46 games but some people are going to lose their patience very quickly if we start poorly. |  | | |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:32 - Aug 5 with 1470 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:06 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Plenty are saying promotion or nothing. You seem to be skirting around the issue.
If you can see progress is being made, but for one reason or another we don't actually get promoted, would you want to keep Cook (or sack him anyway)? If you'd want to keep him then we're in agreement. |
How would you quantify progress? It's a rather vague term. Finishing 7th would be progress but wouldn't be enough for me to be satisfied that Cook is the right man for the job given the tools at his disposal. I've made my position pretty clear, if we don't go up there needs to be some serious mitigating factors in order to justify sticking with Cook, given that us not going up will mean he's failed. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:33 - Aug 5 with 1465 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:26 - Aug 5 by Mach_foreignBlue |
You for example. I wouldn't be surprised at all if you were one of them given the way in which you used to bash Cook's two predecessors. Of course they have been the clubs worst ever managers but you need to remember that the players they worked with have been the worst ever group of players in the history of ITFC. Relegated without a fight, two awful seasons in League One yet you defended these slackers. You defended the 'certain ones'.
People also knocked Cook in the last two months of last season for not making an impact with ... 'one of the best squads in the league' 😂
It's all about where we are after 46 games but some people are going to lose their patience very quickly if we start poorly. |
Throwing a lot of sh!t at the wall with that post, Mach. Particularly like you being upset at me criticising two horror show managers when you've spent the last 6 years literally pissing your pants in anger over the only decent manager we've had in a decade. [Post edited 5 Aug 2021 20:45]
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:35 - Aug 5 with 1463 views | OsborneOneNil |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:32 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
How would you quantify progress? It's a rather vague term. Finishing 7th would be progress but wouldn't be enough for me to be satisfied that Cook is the right man for the job given the tools at his disposal. I've made my position pretty clear, if we don't go up there needs to be some serious mitigating factors in order to justify sticking with Cook, given that us not going up will mean he's failed. |
I can see an average start which slowly builds to the point we have a storming finish coming in the top 4, possibly even top 2. |  | | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:39 - Aug 5 with 1457 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:35 - Aug 5 by OsborneOneNil |
I can see an average start which slowly builds to the point we have a storming finish coming in the top 4, possibly even top 2. |
As long as it ends in promotion that would be a decent season. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:41 - Aug 5 with 1454 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:32 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
How would you quantify progress? It's a rather vague term. Finishing 7th would be progress but wouldn't be enough for me to be satisfied that Cook is the right man for the job given the tools at his disposal. I've made my position pretty clear, if we don't go up there needs to be some serious mitigating factors in order to justify sticking with Cook, given that us not going up will mean he's failed. |
When was the last time you went to a game and will you be going for this new season or still staying away? Because you talk like someone who's only interested in the league table rather than what actually happens on the pitch.
Progress for me is seeing a pattern of play emerging, partnerships forming, good football that makes you think it'll be successful football as well in the not too distant future if it isn't already. What springs to mind as an example would be how Crewe played at Portman Road last season - a delight to watch, pissed on us, but we fluked a 1-0 win. I doubt Crewe fans were bemoaning their team too much after that.
Judging progress on league table placings is very simplistic IMO. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:45 - Aug 5 with 1446 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:33 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
Throwing a lot of sh!t at the wall with that post, Mach. Particularly like you being upset at me criticising two horror show managers when you've spent the last 6 years literally pissing your pants in anger over the only decent manager we've had in a decade. [Post edited 5 Aug 2021 20:45]
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We know you had had a mare on here so the break you had from TWTD should have been a perfect opportunity for you to refresh yourself and reduce your anger. Seems as if you have wasted it given your attitude in this thread. You are getting rattled and irritated so easily.
Two horrow show managers? Yes but read what I posted before. You defended the 'certain players'. The horror excuses of professional players who took us down and played badly in League One. Thankfully Cook got rid of loads of them.
Evans, Hurst, Lambert and these awful players. All of them share the blame.
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:53 - Aug 5 with 1429 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:39 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
As long as it ends in promotion that would be a decent season. |
It seems like the league placing at the end of the season is all that interests you. Maybe you should just watch on Ceefax if it still exists. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 20:32 - Aug 5 with 1353 views | jayessess |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 17:56 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You realise this is totally a new team, and unlike a computer game they won't necessarily gel immediately? |
I'm not sure why you keep going on about computer games when there's plenty of real life examples to talk about. Here's last season's squad churn:
There's very little link between player turnover and eventual performance that I can see. If anything the biggest overachievers swapped a lot of players (Lincoln, Gillingham, Blackpool), whilst some of the biggest under achievers (Sunderland, Ipswich, Burton, Pompey) were pretty stable. |  |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 20:47 - Aug 5 with 1331 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 18:41 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
When was the last time you went to a game and will you be going for this new season or still staying away? Because you talk like someone who's only interested in the league table rather than what actually happens on the pitch.
Progress for me is seeing a pattern of play emerging, partnerships forming, good football that makes you think it'll be successful football as well in the not too distant future if it isn't already. What springs to mind as an example would be how Crewe played at Portman Road last season - a delight to watch, pissed on us, but we fluked a 1-0 win. I doubt Crewe fans were bemoaning their team too much after that.
Judging progress on league table placings is very simplistic IMO. |
I imagine the last time I went to a home game was about the same time you did, and I'll be going on Saturday as well.
So if we finish 8th but in your subjective opinion the footy is better you'd call that progress and stick with him? Fair dos, personally I'd like to see Town be successful rather than aspiring to be like Crewe. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:32 - Aug 5 with 1282 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 20:32 - Aug 5 by jayessess |
I'm not sure why you keep going on about computer games when there's plenty of real life examples to talk about. Here's last season's squad churn:
There's very little link between player turnover and eventual performance that I can see. If anything the biggest overachievers swapped a lot of players (Lincoln, Gillingham, Blackpool), whilst some of the biggest under achievers (Sunderland, Ipswich, Burton, Pompey) were pretty stable. |
There's no team there who have got rid of as many players as we have this summer.
If you genuinely think teams don't generally take time to gel then there's no helping you. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:37 - Aug 5 with 1271 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:32 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
There's no team there who have got rid of as many players as we have this summer.
If you genuinely think teams don't generally take time to gel then there's no helping you. |
Blackpool and Lincoln did, at 28% and 20% respectively compared to our 36% this season
[Post edited 5 Aug 2021 21:37]
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:40 - Aug 5 with 1262 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 20:47 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
I imagine the last time I went to a home game was about the same time you did, and I'll be going on Saturday as well.
So if we finish 8th but in your subjective opinion the footy is better you'd call that progress and stick with him? Fair dos, personally I'd like to see Town be successful rather than aspiring to be like Crewe. |
You have no idea when I went to a game. And you're avoiding the point that we all know you gave up your ST a long time ago.
But fine, you do you.
And no, I didn't mention any placings, that's your obsession remember. I'd imagine if we finished 8th we wouldn't be having a settled and exciting style of play, forming great partnerships etc, as I said I wanted. I also didn't say I aspired to be like Crewe... I was using ONE game as an example of a team that were great to watch - on that occasion - but came away with nothing. But then you like trying to twist things to win the internet. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:45 - Aug 5 with 1245 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:37 - Aug 5 by itfcjoe |
Blackpool and Lincoln did, at 28% and 20% respectively compared to our 36% this season
[Post edited 5 Aug 2021 21:37]
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Not strictly true though is it? We have players still at the club we know won't be involved. 36% isn't our final figure.
Are you also trying to claim new teams don't need time to gel Joe? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:50 - Aug 5 with 1225 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:45 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Not strictly true though is it? We have players still at the club we know won't be involved. 36% isn't our final figure.
Are you also trying to claim new teams don't need time to gel Joe? |
I’d be amazed if we drop below 20% - and I’m sure those teams also had players no longer involved in their squads as well
At this level, teams have massive turnovers in personnel every summer - it’s the way of the world. They have to gel quickly, and pick up points whilst getting into their stride otherwise they won’t hit their targets. We are no different this year - there is a reason why most EFL pundits are tipping us for top 3-4 - and img surly confident we’ll achieve that.
If we slip too far behind the automatic places and they begin to look out of reach then Cook will be bang in trouble. I don’t see that happening though with his history and players he has brought in. No excuses this season | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:54 - Aug 5 with 1211 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:40 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You have no idea when I went to a game. And you're avoiding the point that we all know you gave up your ST a long time ago.
But fine, you do you.
And no, I didn't mention any placings, that's your obsession remember. I'd imagine if we finished 8th we wouldn't be having a settled and exciting style of play, forming great partnerships etc, as I said I wanted. I also didn't say I aspired to be like Crewe... I was using ONE game as an example of a team that were great to watch - on that occasion - but came away with nothing. But then you like trying to twist things to win the internet. |
I'm guessing you last went before the first lockdown, like the majority of fans. That was the last time I went too. I gave up my season ticket just last season, because I moved to Scotland.
But fine, you do you. You like trying to twist things to win the internet. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:56 - Aug 5 with 1208 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:50 - Aug 5 by itfcjoe |
I’d be amazed if we drop below 20% - and I’m sure those teams also had players no longer involved in their squads as well
At this level, teams have massive turnovers in personnel every summer - it’s the way of the world. They have to gel quickly, and pick up points whilst getting into their stride otherwise they won’t hit their targets. We are no different this year - there is a reason why most EFL pundits are tipping us for top 3-4 - and img surly confident we’ll achieve that.
If we slip too far behind the automatic places and they begin to look out of reach then Cook will be bang in trouble. I don’t see that happening though with his history and players he has brought in. No excuses this season |
Aye, but as long as we play like Crewe and don't get relegated he should keep his job. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 22:07 - Aug 5 with 1184 views | Coastalblue |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 13:19 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
My mitigation would be if we can see improvement being made.
I personally don't think it should necessarily be all or nothing - promotion or the sack. Simply because it's so much to turn around. I don't think it's necessarily going to be as simple as 'buy better players, easily win the league'. There's a lot going on at the club and I think we'd be hamstringing ourselves by putting that all or nothing pressure on... and then ignoring any progress and doing yet another reset.
I dispute the 18 months because the first 6 were with a totally different team, who hadn't performed for a long time. If you think one season with a totally new team is enough, then I would disagree with that. Rome wasn't built in a day and a successful football club isn't necessarily built in one season. |
I think you're being very naive, yes we have football people at the top, but we have football people at the top who are expecting results.
If you listen to interviews with them then promotion this year is being alluded to if not outright demanded. |  |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 23:30 - Aug 5 with 1116 views | timothyeo |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:50 - Aug 5 by itfcjoe |
I’d be amazed if we drop below 20% - and I’m sure those teams also had players no longer involved in their squads as well
At this level, teams have massive turnovers in personnel every summer - it’s the way of the world. They have to gel quickly, and pick up points whilst getting into their stride otherwise they won’t hit their targets. We are no different this year - there is a reason why most EFL pundits are tipping us for top 3-4 - and img surly confident we’ll achieve that.
If we slip too far behind the automatic places and they begin to look out of reach then Cook will be bang in trouble. I don’t see that happening though with his history and players he has brought in. No excuses this season |
Absolutely this.
Also don't remember, most clubs have to deal with big turnover in this league but without the budget and pulling power we have, and still don't use it as an excuse.
What I find weird is those most confident in Cook are the same ones trying to make excuses for him before he's even started.
He was poor last season. Weve not really seen a settled playing style or process or philosophy throughout pre season. He has to hit the ground running to a degree, and the opening fixtures are very kind.
No excuses. Promotion is what our owners want and if we are too far away in January Cook will be gone and rightly so.
That some of our fans have now ended up with the ambition of a midtable league one club doesn't mean we all have. The owners certainly haven't. |  | | |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 08:06 - Aug 6 with 1007 views | jayessess |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:45 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Not strictly true though is it? We have players still at the club we know won't be involved. 36% isn't our final figure.
Are you also trying to claim new teams don't need time to gel Joe? |
Keeping Holy, Woolfenden, Nsiala and Norwood would take us over 20% by themselves.
Like "giving the manager time", players "needing time to gel" is a big football cliche which I'm not sure is borne out by results a lot of the time. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 08:13 - Aug 6 with 997 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 21:54 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
I'm guessing you last went before the first lockdown, like the majority of fans. That was the last time I went too. I gave up my season ticket just last season, because I moved to Scotland.
But fine, you do you. You like trying to twist things to win the internet. |
You made a big point about not going to games, was my point. As you well know. Maybe if you went more you'd care more about the actual play rather than just the final league position. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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