| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... 08:51 - Aug 4 with 16943 views | itfcjoe |
....as can't see any new signings being any more than a bench option.
Sounds as though Fraser and Edmundson won't be fit, and would presume Chaplin not ready to start.
Does leave us a bit thin as really it will be 10 outfield players from 12 starting
KVY, Donacien
Woolf, Nsiala
Penney
Evans, Harper
Dobra, Burns
Bonne, Norwood, Pigott
Will have to be 442 with one of Bonne or Norwood joining Donacien on the bench |  |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:45 - Aug 5 with 2206 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 00:06 - Aug 5 by jayessess |
Some percent of the fanbase is always going to be knocking the manager. If we can't deal with that, we might as well go home right now. As it happens, Ipswich fans are abnormally patient.
I'd say a big part of the culture that needed changing was that much of the squad seemed to think it unrealistic to expect Ipswich Town to challenge for the top of League One and that an outside chance of 6th was a decent standard to aim for. Having been so keen to boot those players out, I've no idea why so many seem to be OK with those low standards sneaking back in? |
The squad didn't think that though. There's never ever been a suggestion that the squad thought challenging at the top of the league was unrealistic.You've literally just made that up.
The problem was they just weren't good enough.
And if you can't understand why a completely new team (plus a takeover which means a complete restructuring off the pitch too) won't necessarily be all guns blazing and fly to promotion immediately then there's no helping you. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:52 - Aug 5 with 2170 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 08:09 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
That's rich from the person who was still defending Lambert for much of last season. |
I probably did have too much patience with Lambert (and indeed Keane and Jewel) but that has nothing to do with your assertion that "patience = low expectations." There's no correlation there at all.
I have high expectations for Ipswich but I'm also realistic in how much time it will take to rebuild and turn around a club which has been failing for the best part of 20 years.
Throwing your toys out of the pram if we don't get promoted at the first time of asking (even if we can see progress is being made) would be impatient at best. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:56 - Aug 5 with 2164 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:03 - Aug 5 by jayessess |
There's nothing to gained by being down here for an extra season. We've all seen this Summer how being in League One has hamstrung us in recruitment.
I don't see where the sustainability argument comes in at all, really. We've signed ready made players, mostly at peak footballing age, all experienced at this level or above. This isn't a squad signed for gradual development, it's a group designed to win football matches asap. |
No-one wants to stay down here for an extra season. But life isn't as simple as you paint it. Players lose form, get injured, get Covid, some might just not work out.
All I'm saying is if progress is seen to being made, that should be enough. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater if everything doesn't immediately go to plan. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:56 - Aug 5 with 2170 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:52 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I probably did have too much patience with Lambert (and indeed Keane and Jewel) but that has nothing to do with your assertion that "patience = low expectations." There's no correlation there at all.
I have high expectations for Ipswich but I'm also realistic in how much time it will take to rebuild and turn around a club which has been failing for the best part of 20 years.
Throwing your toys out of the pram if we don't get promoted at the first time of asking (even if we can see progress is being made) would be impatient at best. |
Expecting Ipswich to get promoted out of a dross league when the manager has been very well-backed to build his squad really isn't asking too much. Nobody is expecting us to play like the 1970 Brazil team or to be playing teams off the park from day one. However, we should be expecting promotion this season and anything less than that is a failure. I'm sure Cook and the new owners would also see it that way because they have high expectations of themselves and the club. |  |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:58 - Aug 5 with 2157 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:42 - Aug 5 by bluestandard |
I agree that alot of the argument on this thread will become redundant, mainly because we have no context right now for how the team will be performing on the pitch in terms of style of play. Most of this thread has centred on results, and what will happen if we get some bad ones. I remember however back in the Burley days, we had plenty of games which we lost after having effectively battered the opposition for most of the game. Noone was calling for the managers head back then. Lets see how the style of play develops after a few months, and if Cook really can get us up off our seats with a more exciting brand of football. If he doesn't deliver on this, I think patience will (rightly) be in far shorter supply. |
Exactly. And we gave Burley 5 years before he got us up. No manager would get that anymore, the modern football fan has just got too impatient. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 10:00 - Aug 5 with 2149 views | jayessess |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:40 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Because life isn't that simple. And this isn't a computer game. |
Right, but we're not talking predictions here, are we? We're talking about what's achievable and what is a reasonable standard to set. As good as Lincoln/Blackpool last year is a reasonable standard and I'm 100% sure Paul Cook would agree. |  |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 10:00 - Aug 5 with 2144 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:56 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
Expecting Ipswich to get promoted out of a dross league when the manager has been very well-backed to build his squad really isn't asking too much. Nobody is expecting us to play like the 1970 Brazil team or to be playing teams off the park from day one. However, we should be expecting promotion this season and anything less than that is a failure. I'm sure Cook and the new owners would also see it that way because they have high expectations of themselves and the club. |
I'm sure they would and to a certain extent you're right. But that doesn't necessarily mean firing the manager and starting again. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 10:01 - Aug 5 with 2134 views | chicoazul |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:56 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
Expecting Ipswich to get promoted out of a dross league when the manager has been very well-backed to build his squad really isn't asking too much. Nobody is expecting us to play like the 1970 Brazil team or to be playing teams off the park from day one. However, we should be expecting promotion this season and anything less than that is a failure. I'm sure Cook and the new owners would also see it that way because they have high expectations of themselves and the club. |
Yup. |  |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 10:03 - Aug 5 with 2119 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 10:00 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm sure they would and to a certain extent you're right. But that doesn't necessarily mean firing the manager and starting again. |
A lot would depend on circumstances, but given that not winning promotion would be a failure and given his poor performance to date we'd be looking at 18 months of the manager not performing to the level expected. There'd have to be quite a lot of mitigation to justify keeping him in post. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 10:06 - Aug 5 with 2106 views | jayessess |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:45 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The squad didn't think that though. There's never ever been a suggestion that the squad thought challenging at the top of the league was unrealistic.You've literally just made that up.
The problem was they just weren't good enough.
And if you can't understand why a completely new team (plus a takeover which means a complete restructuring off the pitch too) won't necessarily be all guns blazing and fly to promotion immediately then there's no helping you. |
They did, James Wilson literally said as much: https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/new-plymouth-defender-james-wilson-on-
We've had your low standards at Ipswich Town for a long time now, where failure is acceptable and managers get multiple goes at messing things up. Thankfully, that time is over now! | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 10:11 - Aug 5 with 2091 views | jayessess |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:58 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Exactly. And we gave Burley 5 years before he got us up. No manager would get that anymore, the modern football fan has just got too impatient. |
Rubbish, any manager with Burley's record - 7th, 4th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in the Championship - absolutely would remain in post for as long as they wanted the job. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:16 - Aug 5 with 2041 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 00:06 - Aug 5 by jayessess |
Some percent of the fanbase is always going to be knocking the manager. If we can't deal with that, we might as well go home right now. As it happens, Ipswich fans are abnormally patient.
I'd say a big part of the culture that needed changing was that much of the squad seemed to think it unrealistic to expect Ipswich Town to challenge for the top of League One and that an outside chance of 6th was a decent standard to aim for. Having been so keen to boot those players out, I've no idea why so many seem to be OK with those low standards sneaking back in? |
It's not about low standards sneaking back.
It's about backing the manager and not slating him if we are midtable after 10 games. Because some people will be reacting like that if this happens. |  | | |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:21 - Aug 5 with 2027 views | chrismakin |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 10:11 - Aug 5 by jayessess |
Rubbish, any manager with Burley's record - 7th, 4th, 5th, 3rd and 3rd in the Championship - absolutely would remain in post for as long as they wanted the job. |
In fairness, you just said the below
"We've had your low standards at Ipswich Town for a long time now, where failure is acceptable and managers get multiple goes at messing things up. Thankfully, that time is over now"
Whilst the finishes for Burley appear and were great, I can very much imagine the modern football fan seeing it as regular failures of getting us up and it wouldn't take long before people would be saying he bottled it every year, get him out etc, get someone in that can do it |  |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:25 - Aug 5 with 2013 views | franz_tyson |
If we have a poor start to the season, but then absolutely storm it for the last 15-20 games, but narrowly miss out - would firing Cook be a good thing? New manager who would take over another manager’s set of players. We’ll see - lots of scenarios can happen.
It’s obvious that the underlying reason some are kind of setting Cook up for failure is the way he called out club favourites and told them they’re crap. Probably shouldn’t have done that so publicly, but it’s right for them to go. |  | | |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:28 - Aug 5 with 2007 views | jayessess |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:16 - Aug 5 by Mach_foreignBlue |
It's not about low standards sneaking back.
It's about backing the manager and not slating him if we are midtable after 10 games. Because some people will be reacting like that if this happens. |
This "after 10 games" thing is a total straw man though! There's no-one on this thread proposing that. We're talking about what we expect after 46 games. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:29 - Aug 5 with 2002 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:16 - Aug 5 by Mach_foreignBlue |
It's not about low standards sneaking back.
It's about backing the manager and not slating him if we are midtable after 10 games. Because some people will be reacting like that if this happens. |
Well it is, because people are talking as though anything but being right up there is acceptable. Someone even said the other day they would be fine if we finished 10th if they saw good signs. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:37 - Aug 5 with 1980 views | jayessess |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:21 - Aug 5 by chrismakin |
In fairness, you just said the below
"We've had your low standards at Ipswich Town for a long time now, where failure is acceptable and managers get multiple goes at messing things up. Thankfully, that time is over now"
Whilst the finishes for Burley appear and were great, I can very much imagine the modern football fan seeing it as regular failures of getting us up and it wouldn't take long before people would be saying he bottled it every year, get him out etc, get someone in that can do it |
Well, for the record, I've got a very simple standard for managers:
Finishing more or less where you'd expect according to our budget: PAR
Below that: BAD
Above that: EXTREMELY GOOD
I think it's very unlikely we'll ever have the 3rd-biggest budget in the Championship without parachute payments, so if you ever catch me complaining about finishing 3rd in the Championship feel free to tell me I'm being unreasonable. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 12:07 - Aug 5 with 1958 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:25 - Aug 5 by franz_tyson |
If we have a poor start to the season, but then absolutely storm it for the last 15-20 games, but narrowly miss out - would firing Cook be a good thing? New manager who would take over another manager’s set of players. We’ll see - lots of scenarios can happen.
It’s obvious that the underlying reason some are kind of setting Cook up for failure is the way he called out club favourites and told them they’re crap. Probably shouldn’t have done that so publicly, but it’s right for them to go. |
I think people are a bit sceptical after Cook came in saying play offs were the aim and then took us on a run of borderline relegation form for the rest of the season rather than because of him calling out the players. He has a decent amount to prove here still. And who is setting him up for failure? Everyone at the club, including Cook, has said promotion is the aim this season. I agree with them. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 12:25 - Aug 5 with 1918 views | jayessess |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:29 - Aug 5 by itfcjoe |
Well it is, because people are talking as though anything but being right up there is acceptable. Someone even said the other day they would be fine if we finished 10th if they saw good signs. |
The mad thing about it is actually the lack of faith it shows in Cook! He's an excellent manager with a fantastic track record in this division, who has more resources than anyone else in the league, why wouldn't I expect him to ace it? | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 12:38 - Aug 5 with 1896 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:28 - Aug 5 by jayessess |
This "after 10 games" thing is a total straw man though! There's no-one on this thread proposing that. We're talking about what we expect after 46 games. |
You are talking about what we expect after 46 games and that is how it should be. Some people though will expect an instant good start from Cook and that isn't right. | | | |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 12:40 - Aug 5 with 1891 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 11:29 - Aug 5 by itfcjoe |
Well it is, because people are talking as though anything but being right up there is acceptable. Someone even said the other day they would be fine if we finished 10th if they saw good signs. |
Cook is going to be an excellent manager for us in the long term future. I won't be surprised though if we start poorly as the transition has been monumental. Not only the change of squad, just change of culture too. | | | |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 12:45 - Aug 5 with 1881 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 23:50 - Aug 4 by jayessess |
Isn't it? Why?
Cook has far more resources than those two did. Why is matching Blackpool's achievements suddenly seen as unachievable? |
There is a degree to which there is some truth in this.
However, how far do you want to apply it? Is it unrealistic to judge our achievements against what Leicester and Man City have achieved? |  |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 12:49 - Aug 5 with 1868 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 12:38 - Aug 5 by Mach_foreignBlue |
You are talking about what we expect after 46 games and that is how it should be. Some people though will expect an instant good start from Cook and that isn't right. |
Who are these people? Pretty much everyone on this thread is talking about expectations for the season, not the first few games. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 12:49 - Aug 5 with 1868 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 09:58 - Aug 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Exactly. And we gave Burley 5 years before he got us up. No manager would get that anymore, the modern football fan has just got too impatient. |
And look what that achieved.
There is a degree to which the same patience was shown with MM (and rightly so but with less successful outcome due to management above MM).
If anywhere would show that same patience here and a few other places such as Crewe might. | |
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| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 12:51 - Aug 5 with 1858 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like we will go into Morecambe with what we have now..... on 12:49 - Aug 5 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And look what that achieved.
There is a degree to which the same patience was shown with MM (and rightly so but with less successful outcome due to management above MM).
If anywhere would show that same patience here and a few other places such as Crewe might. |
"And look what that achieved" - administration and the start of a 20 year downward spiral?
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