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Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:38 - Nov 19 by footers
I don't know whether it will be, and neither do you.
I'd say it's a measured response to the worst pandemic the world has seen since the Spanish flu. Considering there seem to be no good arguments against having the vaccine, I don't see why anyone would refuse to have it voluntarily. That it becomes Austrian law is a matter for Austria, and if people don't like it then they don't have to live there.
As much as I hate the Tories, and this government in particular, I don't think they're fascists and have never suggested they were. Fascists tend to be organised for one thing.
I don't know why you continually refuse to read the part of every one of my *3* posts in which I made it abundantly clear that my main objections do NOT relate to this as a one-off, but to the Austrians making mandatory innoculations a standing feature of their permanent legislation.
And I could write you a fairly long list of this govt's recent leigislation demonstrating their creep towards fascism, whether organised or piecemeal, including the option of handing out 10+year jail sentences to people protesting peacefully, re-writing the rules governing their own corrupt behaviour, etc etc. but I'm tired & you could look it up. Perhaps also have a read of this if you haven't already -
Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:16 - Nov 19 by DanTheMan
I love this 99% stuff.
If I was to say every time you got on a plane, you'd have a 1 in 100 chance of dying, there is no way people would fly. That's a ridiculous gamble to take.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2021 16:17]
doh
[Post edited 19 Nov 2021 17:58]
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Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:58 - Nov 19 with 1301 views
Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:02 - Nov 19 by footers
I don't see the equivalence with racism.
We all do things we may not necessarily want to do as part of the social contract. That's been as much a part of Western life for hundreds of years to maintain our way of life.
Maybe my grandad's ill health is getting the better of me here, but I just can't understand any justification for not being vaxxed voluntarily. If people don't want to have it, fine - but that is the law of the land.
But it's not the law of the land is it, and that's the point. We have not had adult vaccine mandates in western democracies for a long time, and for very good reason. We have a basic medical position of informed consent where patients are explained the benefits, the risks and the alternatives and they then decide if they wish to take the treatment. This is how it should be.
I am generally pro-vaccine but I do not have the religious like belief in them that many on here seem to. The Covid vaccines have done what they said on the tin when it comes to preventing serious illness but in terms of preventing infection and transmission they have frankly been a bit of a disappointment and anybody who says otherwise is not looking objectively at the data.
There are numerous examples from around Europe where highly vaccinated populations have had big increases in case numbers. In this very country we are currently looking at a situation where cases per 100'000 of the population are higher in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated for most adult age groups. The boosters will improve this situation but even so it is clear that protection form being infected wanes quite badly after a few months.
You have stated on this thread that they are proven 'safe and effective' this is not completely true. I touched on the effectiveness above, now in terms of the safety, yes they are generally considered safe but there are still risks. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw died as a direct result of complications following the AZ vaccine. I don't really see how you can declare something 'safe' that has the potential to kill.
The UK yellow card data shows over a million adverse reactions ( some of which are of a serious nature ) and 1768 deaths. Not all of these deaths are confirmed as being caused by the vaccine but it is reasonable to assume that a proportion of them are. https://yellowcard.ukcolumn.org/yellow-card-reports
I recently watched the video below regarding a post vaccine case of pericarditis which has had quite serious health implications for this young man in the US and has curtailed his career as a professional mountain biker. Dr John Campbell who is doing the interview is very reputable and honest. I urge people to watch this if time permits, it may help you to see a slightly different perspective, it certainly did me.
I understand that the risks from the vaccine are low and i'm sure people are going to be quick to remind me that Covid presents a far greater risk, however the point is that where there is risk, there simply MUST be a choice. We cannot allow a situation where the state decides what medical treatments we must have, and failure to comply is considered unlawful. I know we are talking about Austria but where one leads others will follow. Do you really want to allow that sort of power to idiots like Johnson and Javid? I understand that you have been touched personally by Covid, as many of us have, but I truly believe you and a few others on this thread need to rethink your position on this one.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2021 19:14]
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Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:58 - Nov 19 with 1295 views
Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:58 - Nov 19 by Lightworker
But it's not the law of the land is it, and that's the point. We have not had adult vaccine mandates in western democracies for a long time, and for very good reason. We have a basic medical position of informed consent where patients are explained the benefits, the risks and the alternatives and they then decide if they wish to take the treatment. This is how it should be.
I am generally pro-vaccine but I do not have the religious like belief in them that many on here seem to. The Covid vaccines have done what they said on the tin when it comes to preventing serious illness but in terms of preventing infection and transmission they have frankly been a bit of a disappointment and anybody who says otherwise is not looking objectively at the data.
There are numerous examples from around Europe where highly vaccinated populations have had big increases in case numbers. In this very country we are currently looking at a situation where cases per 100'000 of the population are higher in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated for most adult age groups. The boosters will improve this situation but even so it is clear that protection form being infected wanes quite badly after a few months.
You have stated on this thread that they are proven 'safe and effective' this is not completely true. I touched on the effectiveness above, now in terms of the safety, yes they are generally considered safe but there are still risks. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw died as a direct result of complications following the AZ vaccine. I don't really see how you can declare something 'safe' that has the potential to kill.
The UK yellow card data shows over a million adverse reactions ( some of which are of a serious nature ) and 1768 deaths. Not all of these deaths are confirmed as being caused by the vaccine but it is reasonable to assume that a proportion of them are. https://yellowcard.ukcolumn.org/yellow-card-reports
I recently watched the video below regarding a post vaccine case of pericarditis which has had quite serious health implications for this young man in the US and has curtailed his career as a professional mountain biker. Dr John Campbell who is doing the interview is very reputable and honest. I urge people to watch this if time permits, it may help you to see a slightly different perspective, it certainly did me.
I understand that the risks from the vaccine are low and i'm sure people are going to be quick to remind me that Covid presents a far greater risk, however the point is that where there is risk, there simply MUST be a choice. We cannot allow a situation where the state decides what medical treatments we must have, and failure to comply is considered unlawful. I know we are talking about Austria but where one leads others will follow. Do you really want to allow that sort of power to idiots like Johnson and Javid? I understand that you have been touched personally by Covid, as many of us have, but I truly believe you and a few others on this thread need to rethink your position on this one.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2021 19:14]
You put it much, much better than I ever could ðŸ‘
Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:50 - Nov 19 by Ryorry
I don't know why you continually refuse to read the part of every one of my *3* posts in which I made it abundantly clear that my main objections do NOT relate to this as a one-off, but to the Austrians making mandatory innoculations a standing feature of their permanent legislation.
And I could write you a fairly long list of this govt's recent leigislation demonstrating their creep towards fascism, whether organised or piecemeal, including the option of handing out 10+year jail sentences to people protesting peacefully, re-writing the rules governing their own corrupt behaviour, etc etc. but I'm tired & you could look it up. Perhaps also have a read of this if you haven't already -
Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 11:55 - Nov 19 by Pinewoodblue
Was reading an article in NYT recently seems that take up is lower in German speaking areas of Europe not just Austria. Article didn’t offer an explanation for this.
Saw an answer to this on another platform, which basically was that those populations tend to be very serious about sticking to healthy diets & lifestyle, so consequently have greater belief in their own immune systems being sufficient to fight off Covid. (This doesn't mean those populations are correct, obviously).
Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:58 - Nov 19 by Lightworker
But it's not the law of the land is it, and that's the point. We have not had adult vaccine mandates in western democracies for a long time, and for very good reason. We have a basic medical position of informed consent where patients are explained the benefits, the risks and the alternatives and they then decide if they wish to take the treatment. This is how it should be.
I am generally pro-vaccine but I do not have the religious like belief in them that many on here seem to. The Covid vaccines have done what they said on the tin when it comes to preventing serious illness but in terms of preventing infection and transmission they have frankly been a bit of a disappointment and anybody who says otherwise is not looking objectively at the data.
There are numerous examples from around Europe where highly vaccinated populations have had big increases in case numbers. In this very country we are currently looking at a situation where cases per 100'000 of the population are higher in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated for most adult age groups. The boosters will improve this situation but even so it is clear that protection form being infected wanes quite badly after a few months.
You have stated on this thread that they are proven 'safe and effective' this is not completely true. I touched on the effectiveness above, now in terms of the safety, yes they are generally considered safe but there are still risks. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw died as a direct result of complications following the AZ vaccine. I don't really see how you can declare something 'safe' that has the potential to kill.
The UK yellow card data shows over a million adverse reactions ( some of which are of a serious nature ) and 1768 deaths. Not all of these deaths are confirmed as being caused by the vaccine but it is reasonable to assume that a proportion of them are. https://yellowcard.ukcolumn.org/yellow-card-reports
I recently watched the video below regarding a post vaccine case of pericarditis which has had quite serious health implications for this young man in the US and has curtailed his career as a professional mountain biker. Dr John Campbell who is doing the interview is very reputable and honest. I urge people to watch this if time permits, it may help you to see a slightly different perspective, it certainly did me.
I understand that the risks from the vaccine are low and i'm sure people are going to be quick to remind me that Covid presents a far greater risk, however the point is that where there is risk, there simply MUST be a choice. We cannot allow a situation where the state decides what medical treatments we must have, and failure to comply is considered unlawful. I know we are talking about Austria but where one leads others will follow. Do you really want to allow that sort of power to idiots like Johnson and Javid? I understand that you have been touched personally by Covid, as many of us have, but I truly believe you and a few others on this thread need to rethink your position on this one.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2021 19:14]
Just going to post this about that yellow card link.
It seems we are all along the path to dehumanising a significant chunk of our society. We have created mass fear and hysteria, identified a group of scapegoats (the unvaccinated) on evidence that doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny. Now we have started successfully ostracising these scapegoats from society. I’m not looking forward to the next step. Seeing as the obese are hugely at risk from Covid, once we’ve dealt with those who choose not to take a vaccine, will we get started on the people who can’t put cake down, or do you prefer that we go for children?
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Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 19:34 - Nov 19 with 985 views
"Not all of these deaths are confirmed as being caused by the vaccine but it is highly probably that a proportion of are."
You have nothing to back up this claim.
I am aware of that which is why I didn't make any definite claims and used the word probably ( which was actually a typo and should have been probable! ).
That being said we know that there have been confirmed vaccine deaths such as Lisa Shaw, so it is not unreasonable to assume that of 1700 odd deaths reported soon after vaccination, that at least some of them are likely to have been vaccine related.
If you investigate the UK Column site further you will find a well researched article that questions how thorough ( or not ) the MHRA are when it comes to investigating the reported vaccine deaths. It is of course easy to say there is no link when no proper investigation is taking place.
To acknowledge your point though I have modified my comment to "Not all of these deaths are confirmed as being caused by the vaccine but it is reasonable to assume that a proportion of them are."
Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 19:23 - Nov 19 by Slovak
It seems we are all along the path to dehumanising a significant chunk of our society. We have created mass fear and hysteria, identified a group of scapegoats (the unvaccinated) on evidence that doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny. Now we have started successfully ostracising these scapegoats from society. I’m not looking forward to the next step. Seeing as the obese are hugely at risk from Covid, once we’ve dealt with those who choose not to take a vaccine, will we get started on the people who can’t put cake down, or do you prefer that we go for children?
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Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 19:40 - Nov 19 with 962 views
Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 19:23 - Nov 19 by Slovak
It seems we are all along the path to dehumanising a significant chunk of our society. We have created mass fear and hysteria, identified a group of scapegoats (the unvaccinated) on evidence that doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny. Now we have started successfully ostracising these scapegoats from society. I’m not looking forward to the next step. Seeing as the obese are hugely at risk from Covid, once we’ve dealt with those who choose not to take a vaccine, will we get started on the people who can’t put cake down, or do you prefer that we go for children?
Indeed. Hopefully it doesn't come to that and some sort of common sense and perspective will return to the building. No surprise to see the poster in question cheering on discrimination and the introduction of a two tier society though. He has history for similar displays of ignorance.
Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 19:40 - Nov 19 by Lightworker
Indeed. Hopefully it doesn't come to that and some sort of common sense and perspective will return to the building. No surprise to see the poster in question cheering on discrimination and the introduction of a two tier society though. He has history for similar displays of ignorance.
[Redacted]
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Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 19:52 - Nov 19 with 1929 views
The evidence around transmission of Covid in the vaccinated does not support any of the draconian measures you seem to be relishing. I have unvaccinated friends that are among the healthiest people I know and who I still have no hesitation in meeting for a coffee or a bite to eat. I respect their choice to make their own healthcare decisions as they do mine.
I'm glad you find the ever increasing discrimination and the introduction of a two tier society something to laugh about though.
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