| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory 10:37 - Nov 19 with 12639 views | giant_stow |
in feb next year. Not sure how I feel about that personally... extreme persuasion would probably have been better. |  |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:15 - Nov 19 with 923 views | noggin |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:12 - Nov 19 by WeWereZombies |
The essence of Windrush, as I see it, was that a state brought in necessary overseas labour at a time of shortage (post-war) but tried to change the rules sixty or so years later without an open debate or due legal process - because they knew that an open debate would expose the government of the day to adverse overseas publicity, so they tried to sneak some dodgy practices under the radar to give a form of appeasement to the Brexit mob.
As Guthrum pointed out in an earlier post there are contingent laws in place ready to be promulgated in the event of circumstances that have been pre-agreed. A public health emergency would be one of these and has a far more urgent proportionality than a political manoeuvre to prevent a split in a political party. |
And those overseas workers were British passport holders (British (Jamaican) citizen). The kids, who were later deported, traveled on their parents British passports. [Post edited 19 Nov 2021 16:28]
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:16 - Nov 19 with 919 views | TooManyCooks |
I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out that this is already happening here in the UK, the only difference from Austria, being that it is being pushed through via industry sector, care home staff being the obvious example. |  |
| hedgehog flavoured cucumbers |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:16 - Nov 19 with 907 views | DanTheMan |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 13:07 - Nov 19 by Digger77 |
A virus with a 99% survival rate?
The jab is still in the experimental phase. Or can you point to the data for long term affects please? |
I love this 99% stuff.
If I was to say every time you got on a plane, you'd have a 1 in 100 chance of dying, there is no way people would fly. That's a ridiculous gamble to take. [Post edited 19 Nov 2021 16:17]
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:18 - Nov 19 with 902 views | noggin |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:16 - Nov 19 by TooManyCooks |
I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out that this is already happening here in the UK, the only difference from Austria, being that it is being pushed through via industry sector, care home staff being the obvious example. |
Aren't healthcare workers already forced to have hepatitis vaccines? I know I was before starting in The London Ambulance Service. Nobody complained, by the way. | |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:20 - Nov 19 with 883 views | footers |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:12 - Nov 19 by Ryorry |
I'm sure the German & Austrian people weren't *that* "fearful" in the 1920s, nor the Rohingya people in 2010 either.
And my very point was that they *wouldn't* "be using drugs made by pharmaceutical giants either."
I'm amazed at your response to the issue. |
Again, you're using a conditional.
The drugs being issued are all tested and proven to be effective. Why you and others are off dreaming about a ficticious fascist state when we're in the middle of a global pandemic is beyond me.
I assume you weren't coerced by this evil government into having this dystopian vaccine? |  |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:21 - Nov 19 with 874 views | giant_stow |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:12 - Nov 19 by WeWereZombies |
The essence of Windrush, as I see it, was that a state brought in necessary overseas labour at a time of shortage (post-war) but tried to change the rules sixty or so years later without an open debate or due legal process - because they knew that an open debate would expose the government of the day to adverse overseas publicity, so they tried to sneak some dodgy practices under the radar to give a form of appeasement to the Brexit mob.
As Guthrum pointed out in an earlier post there are contingent laws in place ready to be promulgated in the event of circumstances that have been pre-agreed. A public health emergency would be one of these and has a far more urgent proportionality than a political manoeuvre to prevent a split in a political party. |
Specifically I was countering the suggestion that those Austrians who refused to obey their upcoming law could just leave / become stateless. The examples you and Chico have offered serve, in my mind, as illustration of what a terrible, unjust outcome that would be. | |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:24 - Nov 19 with 859 views | StokieBlue |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:16 - Nov 19 by DanTheMan |
I love this 99% stuff.
If I was to say every time you got on a plane, you'd have a 1 in 100 chance of dying, there is no way people would fly. That's a ridiculous gamble to take. [Post edited 19 Nov 2021 16:17]
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Ah, but to quote Diggers likely mentor:
"You can't put a price on freedom".
Still possibly the most odious thing I have seen posted on here.
SB |  | | |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:32 - Nov 19 with 808 views | Ryorry |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:20 - Nov 19 by footers |
Again, you're using a conditional.
The drugs being issued are all tested and proven to be effective. Why you and others are off dreaming about a ficticious fascist state when we're in the middle of a global pandemic is beyond me.
I assume you weren't coerced by this evil government into having this dystopian vaccine? |
My question, which I asked twice but you seem to have missed, was whether this was a one off, or whether "more alarmingly" (and which is what I was talking about) was intended to be written into their statue books as permanent legislation that could be used by a different Austrian government in future.
I've had all 3 jabs (thank you NHS).
And yes this is an evil government creeping towards fascism, as I believe you've mentioned a few times yourself. |  |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:38 - Nov 19 with 790 views | footers |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:32 - Nov 19 by Ryorry |
My question, which I asked twice but you seem to have missed, was whether this was a one off, or whether "more alarmingly" (and which is what I was talking about) was intended to be written into their statue books as permanent legislation that could be used by a different Austrian government in future.
I've had all 3 jabs (thank you NHS).
And yes this is an evil government creeping towards fascism, as I believe you've mentioned a few times yourself. |
I don't know whether it will be, and neither do you.
I'd say it's a measured response to the worst pandemic the world has seen since the Spanish flu. Considering there seem to be no good arguments against having the vaccine, I don't see why anyone would refuse to have it voluntarily. That it becomes Austrian law is a matter for Austria, and if people don't like it then they don't have to live there.
As much as I hate the Tories, and this government in particular, I don't think they're fascists and have never suggested they were. Fascists tend to be organised for one thing. | |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:41 - Nov 19 with 779 views | WeWereZombies |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:21 - Nov 19 by giant_stow |
Specifically I was countering the suggestion that those Austrians who refused to obey their upcoming law could just leave / become stateless. The examples you and Chico have offered serve, in my mind, as illustration of what a terrible, unjust outcome that would be. |
I think you have to realise that in the event very few, maybe no, Austrians would flounce off because the alternatives available would start to look not so bad. And where would they flounce to? How easy would it be to become the citizen of an adjacent country if that country was aware you were a vaccine refusenik? It is not so pertinent with Austria being a member of Schengen, although that is suspended for the duration whilst Covid-19 rages. But look at it this way - if a poster got very upset about something on TWTD how realistic would it be for them to flounce off to Wrath of the Barclay?
I think it was Hume who said that being a citizen of a nation was like being carried on board a ship when you were asleep and then when you awake you don't really have a choice about being under the captain's orders as he says 'fine, leave if you want to' but all the land is miles away, to jump overboard and swim for it would lead to drowning. Compare this with John Locke who asserted that by continuing to live in a state we are tacitly agreeing to all the rules and customs of that country. If you suddenly say 'I'm not taking the vaccine just because the law says I should' do not be surprised if the powers of the land turn around and say 'well we didn't hear any complaints from you when you got a free education, free health treatment and unemployment benefit - you have agreed to taking the vaccine in principle by joining in the social and economic life of this nation.' |  |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:50 - Nov 19 with 750 views | bluelagos |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:38 - Nov 19 by footers |
I don't know whether it will be, and neither do you.
I'd say it's a measured response to the worst pandemic the world has seen since the Spanish flu. Considering there seem to be no good arguments against having the vaccine, I don't see why anyone would refuse to have it voluntarily. That it becomes Austrian law is a matter for Austria, and if people don't like it then they don't have to live there.
As much as I hate the Tories, and this government in particular, I don't think they're fascists and have never suggested they were. Fascists tend to be organised for one thing. |
"...and if people don't like it then they don't have to live there..."
The only people I've ever heard use that argument in the UK are far right racists complaining about immigrants not confirming to British ways. I suspect when this is all done and dusted you may look back on that comment and wonder if it was a fair/reasonable position to take.
I read earlier about your grandfather (who I hope is recovering) but I really can't see such a position is remotely appropriate as a way forward in a civilised country. |  |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:53 - Nov 19 with 744 views | gtsb1966 |
Had both jabs. The last few months haven't been feeling so good. Stomach pain, joints very achy especially in the hands nausea, and the worst feeling was it felt like my kidneys were going to burst out of my back. Had an MRI scan and two CT scans and yet thankfully they found nothing. This all started after I had had the first jab. Last week was the best I had felt for ages and a couple of days ago I had my booster and it has come back. Last time it lasted three months. Not debilitating at all but uncomfortable. Two weeks ago we had a plumber do some work for us. Her indoors said she was just popping out to get her booster . The plumber then said he didn't know if he would get his as ever since he had had the jab his kidneys ached and he hadn't felt 100%. Coincidence? Who knows. Would I urge people to get vaccinated...yes of course ...but I think it has more side effects, and ones that last a while, than are currently published. |  | | |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:54 - Nov 19 with 741 views | giant_stow |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:41 - Nov 19 by WeWereZombies |
I think you have to realise that in the event very few, maybe no, Austrians would flounce off because the alternatives available would start to look not so bad. And where would they flounce to? How easy would it be to become the citizen of an adjacent country if that country was aware you were a vaccine refusenik? It is not so pertinent with Austria being a member of Schengen, although that is suspended for the duration whilst Covid-19 rages. But look at it this way - if a poster got very upset about something on TWTD how realistic would it be for them to flounce off to Wrath of the Barclay?
I think it was Hume who said that being a citizen of a nation was like being carried on board a ship when you were asleep and then when you awake you don't really have a choice about being under the captain's orders as he says 'fine, leave if you want to' but all the land is miles away, to jump overboard and swim for it would lead to drowning. Compare this with John Locke who asserted that by continuing to live in a state we are tacitly agreeing to all the rules and customs of that country. If you suddenly say 'I'm not taking the vaccine just because the law says I should' do not be surprised if the powers of the land turn around and say 'well we didn't hear any complaints from you when you got a free education, free health treatment and unemployment benefit - you have agreed to taking the vaccine in principle by joining in the social and economic life of this nation.' |
I love how you ground your opinions in deep thinking mr and slightly intimidated by it too.
Anyway, were Locke and Hume writing pre-democracy? Or specifically, pre the kind of democracy which sees a captain in charge of the ship, usually with the support of less than half the population?
I would suggest that a kind of super-majority should be required before fundamental changes over the control of a persons own body were decided. The 30-40 percenter in charge of the current day, doesn't seem enough of a mandate in moral terms to decide something so significant. | |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:57 - Nov 19 with 734 views | WeWereZombies |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:50 - Nov 19 by bluelagos |
"...and if people don't like it then they don't have to live there..."
The only people I've ever heard use that argument in the UK are far right racists complaining about immigrants not confirming to British ways. I suspect when this is all done and dusted you may look back on that comment and wonder if it was a fair/reasonable position to take.
I read earlier about your grandfather (who I hope is recovering) but I really can't see such a position is remotely appropriate as a way forward in a civilised country. |
I think there is also an issue of the responsibility our state has not to dump poorly protected citizens on other nations (who may be struggling with much worse Covid-19 positions.) The ultimate aim to eradicate infection from the virus. | |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:59 - Nov 19 with 726 views | StokieBlue |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:53 - Nov 19 by gtsb1966 |
Had both jabs. The last few months haven't been feeling so good. Stomach pain, joints very achy especially in the hands nausea, and the worst feeling was it felt like my kidneys were going to burst out of my back. Had an MRI scan and two CT scans and yet thankfully they found nothing. This all started after I had had the first jab. Last week was the best I had felt for ages and a couple of days ago I had my booster and it has come back. Last time it lasted three months. Not debilitating at all but uncomfortable. Two weeks ago we had a plumber do some work for us. Her indoors said she was just popping out to get her booster . The plumber then said he didn't know if he would get his as ever since he had had the jab his kidneys ached and he hadn't felt 100%. Coincidence? Who knows. Would I urge people to get vaccinated...yes of course ...but I think it has more side effects, and ones that last a while, than are currently published. |
Did you have the same vaccine for both your original shots and the booster?
SB | | | |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:02 - Nov 19 with 713 views | footers |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:50 - Nov 19 by bluelagos |
"...and if people don't like it then they don't have to live there..."
The only people I've ever heard use that argument in the UK are far right racists complaining about immigrants not confirming to British ways. I suspect when this is all done and dusted you may look back on that comment and wonder if it was a fair/reasonable position to take.
I read earlier about your grandfather (who I hope is recovering) but I really can't see such a position is remotely appropriate as a way forward in a civilised country. |
I don't see the equivalence with racism.
We all do things we may not necessarily want to do as part of the social contract. That's been as much a part of Western life for hundreds of years to maintain our way of life.
Maybe my grandad's ill health is getting the better of me here, but I just can't understand any justification for not being vaxxed voluntarily. If people don't want to have it, fine - but that is the law of the land. | |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:05 - Nov 19 with 695 views | bluelagos |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:02 - Nov 19 by footers |
I don't see the equivalence with racism.
We all do things we may not necessarily want to do as part of the social contract. That's been as much a part of Western life for hundreds of years to maintain our way of life.
Maybe my grandad's ill health is getting the better of me here, but I just can't understand any justification for not being vaxxed voluntarily. If people don't want to have it, fine - but that is the law of the land. |
I absolutely didn't mean you were being racist, apols if that came across.
I was just struck that the sentiment (of if you don't like if you should leave the country) was one I have only ever heard in that context before. Of course they are not equivalent, please don't think I meant it that way, I didn't.
And I am 100% with you on not seeing why anyone wouldn't want to get vaccinated. We just differ on how we should deal with the issue of those who don't. | |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:08 - Nov 19 with 684 views | hype313 |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:02 - Nov 19 by footers |
I don't see the equivalence with racism.
We all do things we may not necessarily want to do as part of the social contract. That's been as much a part of Western life for hundreds of years to maintain our way of life.
Maybe my grandad's ill health is getting the better of me here, but I just can't understand any justification for not being vaxxed voluntarily. If people don't want to have it, fine - but that is the law of the land. |
Just imagine, the soldiers coming back from WW1 having had the most horrific time, to then be faced with a pandemic where people were dying in their millions, to then be told there is a vaccine to stop you dying and they say "No thanks, I'd rather take my chances"
You can't legislate for drongo's, let them be, and ignore them when they start preaching like Jehovah Witnesses on steroids. |  |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:14 - Nov 19 with 672 views | WeWereZombies |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:54 - Nov 19 by giant_stow |
I love how you ground your opinions in deep thinking mr and slightly intimidated by it too.
Anyway, were Locke and Hume writing pre-democracy? Or specifically, pre the kind of democracy which sees a captain in charge of the ship, usually with the support of less than half the population?
I would suggest that a kind of super-majority should be required before fundamental changes over the control of a persons own body were decided. The 30-40 percenter in charge of the current day, doesn't seem enough of a mandate in moral terms to decide something so significant. |
John Locke (1632-1704) spent a lot of time in The Netherlands because of a suspicion he was involved in the Rye House plot but, nevertheless, was a key thinker in the development of British liberalism in the post Civil War environment. So he helped prevent Britain becoming a one party state but was influential during a time when universal suffrage was still some way off, his thinking no doubt helped our fledgling democracy develop its range to encompass all systems.
David Hume (1711-1776) has recently been in the news as students at Edinburgh University wanted to disassociate themselves from him due to his having views about superior and inferior races. To say that he was a man of his time is an insufficient excuse but to dismiss all his work because of that is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. In terms of the development of our democracy Hume has an important role in the Scottish Enlightenment broadening the social, artistic and political landscape of these islands.
I would suggest that assuming that we are a point where our democracy is a finished article is not likely, there is still work to be done. For example, we face a changed future that will impact the under eighteens more than adults but they have no vote at present (except for some elections and referendum in Scotland.) | |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:15 - Nov 19 with 669 views | StokieBlue |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:08 - Nov 19 by hype313 |
Just imagine, the soldiers coming back from WW1 having had the most horrific time, to then be faced with a pandemic where people were dying in their millions, to then be told there is a vaccine to stop you dying and they say "No thanks, I'd rather take my chances"
You can't legislate for drongo's, let them be, and ignore them when they start preaching like Jehovah Witnesses on steroids. |
It's more complicated than that though.
In Austria, if we scale to the UK population they are running are ~115,000 cases a day and ICU's are full as they have ~66% fully vaccinated (second lowest in Western Europe).
The "drongos" are harming other people by needlessly filling up ICU's and borrowed wards which should be used for treating other things just because they don't want to take a vaccine which billions of people have taken with barely any adverse effects.
SB | | | |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:16 - Nov 19 with 661 views | jaykay |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 14:13 - Nov 19 by Digger77 |
I feel like I'm in an episode of Black Mirror!
Somebody pinch me! |
my covid infected neighbour would love to pinch you and even give you a loving hug if you need it |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:16 - Nov 19 with 661 views | gtsb1966 |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:59 - Nov 19 by StokieBlue |
Did you have the same vaccine for both your original shots and the booster?
SB |
No which is why I'm surprised it has come back. It maybe a coincidence that I've felt like this after being vaccinated and then as I start to get better I have another and back to square one. Also the plumber had some of the same symptoms as me after being vaccinated which I found strange. Maybe there is an ingredient in all the vaccines that just doesn't agree with some people who knows. If I need a further booster I'll still have one though. | | | |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:20 - Nov 19 with 649 views | StokieBlue |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:16 - Nov 19 by gtsb1966 |
No which is why I'm surprised it has come back. It maybe a coincidence that I've felt like this after being vaccinated and then as I start to get better I have another and back to square one. Also the plumber had some of the same symptoms as me after being vaccinated which I found strange. Maybe there is an ingredient in all the vaccines that just doesn't agree with some people who knows. If I need a further booster I'll still have one though. |
Indeed, you shouldn't really get the same side-effects from two totally different treatments so it's strange that you seem to have had that.
I think it would be even more unlikely if your first doses were AZ as that's two totally different types of vaccines.
I hope you feel better soon.
SB | | | |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:24 - Nov 19 with 634 views | gtsb1966 |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:20 - Nov 19 by StokieBlue |
Indeed, you shouldn't really get the same side-effects from two totally different treatments so it's strange that you seem to have had that.
I think it would be even more unlikely if your first doses were AZ as that's two totally different types of vaccines.
I hope you feel better soon.
SB |
Thanks. I've had covid too and was knocked out for a few days. Could it be long covid. Again, who knows. It's all very strange. At least I've had a full mot though and all they found was an enlarged prostate. I wondered why I was peeing more and there was me thinking it was the beer  | | | |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 17:29 - Nov 19 with 1379 views | Digger77 |
| Austria is going to make having both jabs compulsory on 16:53 - Nov 19 by gtsb1966 |
Had both jabs. The last few months haven't been feeling so good. Stomach pain, joints very achy especially in the hands nausea, and the worst feeling was it felt like my kidneys were going to burst out of my back. Had an MRI scan and two CT scans and yet thankfully they found nothing. This all started after I had had the first jab. Last week was the best I had felt for ages and a couple of days ago I had my booster and it has come back. Last time it lasted three months. Not debilitating at all but uncomfortable. Two weeks ago we had a plumber do some work for us. Her indoors said she was just popping out to get her booster . The plumber then said he didn't know if he would get his as ever since he had had the jab his kidneys ached and he hadn't felt 100%. Coincidence? Who knows. Would I urge people to get vaccinated...yes of course ...but I think it has more side effects, and ones that last a while, than are currently published. |
Sorry to hear that.
You can report suspected side effects here - https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/ | | | |
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