| That penalty!!!! 08:50 - Nov 21 with 5491 views | phillev231069 |
I can only say one sentence, that ref should never ever be allowed to oversee another game again!
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| That penalty!!!! on 15:34 - Nov 21 with 1659 views | phillev231069 |
| That penalty!!!! on 09:09 - Nov 21 by timothyeo |
It shouldn't ever be a penalty but with the new rules, it is isn't it? In which case how is it the refs fault for correctly applying the rules?
Before you call for someone to be sacked its always worthwhile making sure you know the facts yourself so you don't look COMPLETELY stupid. |
And since when have ref's ever followed the rules totally as in daft yellow cards etc, i'd just use common bloody sense on this occasion and no I am not completely stupid but thanks for the observation. | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 15:38 - Nov 21 with 1648 views | phillev231069 |
| That penalty!!!! on 14:21 - Nov 21 by braveblue |
Why call someone stupid and use capitals? Especially when you are wrong. Must be in an unnatural position. That was not the case so never a penalty. |
Keyboard warrior, using CAPS gives him a sense of power! | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 15:59 - Nov 21 with 1623 views | Sawtrich |
The rule on handball is just ridiculous. To avoid being deemed to have your arm in an unnatural position you now have to put your arms in the unnatural position of behind your back. Brilliant. |  | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 16:18 - Nov 21 with 1599 views | Keaneish |
| That penalty!!!! on 10:32 - Nov 21 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed. Toto looked to be turning to get his arm out of the way before the shot was struck but not a lot he could do when it’s hit at pace from such a short distance.
But fact remains his hand is still away from his body so ref has to give a penalty if he sees it. |
It's another mistake though, right? Why is Toto turning his back on the ball? That's football 101 that you ave drilled into you as a kid! This mistake will go under the radar given the context of the game and the meaninglessness of the pen to the result but its poor from Toto. Look at Edmundon in comparison in the first half, coming out to challenge the ball, head on with his hands by his side and partly behind his back....
Golden rule is don't give the referee a decision to make. Toto did. [Post edited 21 Nov 2021 16:18]
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| That penalty!!!! on 16:21 - Nov 21 with 1595 views | 2-5-7 |
| That penalty!!!! on 15:59 - Nov 21 by Sawtrich |
The rule on handball is just ridiculous. To avoid being deemed to have your arm in an unnatural position you now have to put your arms in the unnatural position of behind your back. Brilliant. |
Finer rule details are....
'A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation.'
If a player whellies a volley from pretty much point blank range like yesterday, Toto turning away from the force of the ball doesn't give him enough time to unnaturally make a 'bigger body' move to block it. He ain't The Flash is he??!
It isn't enough interpretation of the rule to 'just hit the arm in the box' to make a pen. It was not a penalty.
That aside the poor defending on the corner makes the pen and second goal irrelevant - but still a poor decision. Sunderland striker Stewart who booted it just stuck his hand in the air for a corner claim. Thats how stupid the ref was in awarding. |  | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 16:21 - Nov 21 with 1590 views | Darth_Koont |
| That penalty!!!! on 16:18 - Nov 21 by Keaneish |
It's another mistake though, right? Why is Toto turning his back on the ball? That's football 101 that you ave drilled into you as a kid! This mistake will go under the radar given the context of the game and the meaninglessness of the pen to the result but its poor from Toto. Look at Edmundon in comparison in the first half, coming out to challenge the ball, head on with his hands by his side and partly behind his back....
Golden rule is don't give the referee a decision to make. Toto did. [Post edited 21 Nov 2021 16:18]
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It wasn’t turning his back so much as twisting his arm away.
Right decision from the ref, I think but Toto was just very unlucky and doing the right thing trying to get out and block the shot. |  |
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| That penalty!!!! on 16:56 - Nov 21 with 1568 views | timothyeo |
| That penalty!!!! on 15:38 - Nov 21 by phillev231069 |
Keyboard warrior, using CAPS gives him a sense of power! |
And calling for someone to never be allowed to do their job again because they followed the rules given to them isn't being a keyboard warrior? | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 17:00 - Nov 21 with 1565 views | Keaneish |
| That penalty!!!! on 16:21 - Nov 21 by Darth_Koont |
It wasn’t turning his back so much as twisting his arm away.
Right decision from the ref, I think but Toto was just very unlucky and doing the right thing trying to get out and block the shot. |
Agree he was doing the right thing but for me he turns his body away from the ball. Defenders need to be bigger and uglier and take those square on. Still, relatively moot given we didn't have anyone on the back post for their goal on the corner. I've seen this done more often than not than this season and I've never been a fan; Bonucci's equaliser in the Euros being testament to that. | |
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| That penalty!!!! on 18:02 - Nov 21 with 1539 views | Chrisd |
| That penalty!!!! on 16:21 - Nov 21 by Darth_Koont |
It wasn’t turning his back so much as twisting his arm away.
Right decision from the ref, I think but Toto was just very unlucky and doing the right thing trying to get out and block the shot. |
Just had a penalty appeal turned down in the Spurs vs Leeds game due to a handball. No penalty, common sense prevailed. | |
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| That penalty!!!! on 18:15 - Nov 21 with 1520 views | PhilTWTD |
| That penalty!!!! on 16:21 - Nov 21 by 2-5-7 |
Finer rule details are....
'A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation.'
If a player whellies a volley from pretty much point blank range like yesterday, Toto turning away from the force of the ball doesn't give him enough time to unnaturally make a 'bigger body' move to block it. He ain't The Flash is he??!
It isn't enough interpretation of the rule to 'just hit the arm in the box' to make a pen. It was not a penalty.
That aside the poor defending on the corner makes the pen and second goal irrelevant - but still a poor decision. Sunderland striker Stewart who booted it just stuck his hand in the air for a corner claim. Thats how stupid the ref was in awarding. |
A good assessment and Lee Johnson, to his credit, said he would have been very unhappy if it had been awarded against his side. |  | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 18:21 - Nov 21 with 1513 views | 44_not_out |
1. It was probably a 50/50 decision. One of those you get some times when the luck's with you
2. Had VAR been available it would have probably been given
3. Did it really matter as the game was almost over and we looked less likely to score the longer it went on
4. The SBR would have been screaming for it had it been for us at home
On balance I think it was a fair decision
I think there are far bigger concerns at the moment | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 18:42 - Nov 21 with 1490 views | ZXBlue |
| That penalty!!!! on 18:21 - Nov 21 by 44_not_out |
1. It was probably a 50/50 decision. One of those you get some times when the luck's with you
2. Had VAR been available it would have probably been given
3. Did it really matter as the game was almost over and we looked less likely to score the longer it went on
4. The SBR would have been screaming for it had it been for us at home
On balance I think it was a fair decision
I think there are far bigger concerns at the moment |
I am going to guess that 50% of people in this thread have not actually gone and read the current rule.
It was an awful decision, by the wording of the rule.
It didn't make any odds, but patently wrong.
And for someone to describe it as "another mistake" by Toto is extraordinary. He is held to different standards, by some, to other team members. | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 19:37 - Nov 21 with 1470 views | phillev231069 |
| That penalty!!!! on 16:56 - Nov 21 by timothyeo |
And calling for someone to never be allowed to do their job again because they followed the rules given to them isn't being a keyboard warrior? |
Just calling out your original post was a bit over the top on my opinion, as I said sometimes common sense should kick in. Maybe next time don't be so antagonising. | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 21:16 - Nov 21 with 1444 views | azuremerlangus |
To me an unnatural position would mean your arm was dislocated… |  |
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| That penalty!!!! on 21:44 - Nov 21 with 1426 views | BlueForYou |
If the law on handball has changed to allow that to be given a penalty, then the law is a complete & utter ass. |  | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 22:02 - Nov 21 with 1405 views | ZXBlue |
| That penalty!!!! on 21:44 - Nov 21 by BlueForYou |
If the law on handball has changed to allow that to be given a penalty, then the law is a complete & utter ass. |
It hasnt. It has changed in ways that are clearly causing confusion and make it worse- but that was still not a pen. No unnautural position. | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 09:32 - Nov 22 with 1333 views | 2-5-7 |
| That penalty!!!! on 21:16 - Nov 21 by azuremerlangus |
To me an unnatural position would mean your arm was dislocated… |
LOL 😂 | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 09:34 - Nov 22 with 1330 views | pennblue |
| That penalty!!!! on 09:05 - Nov 21 by itfc_bucks |
Watching it live, yes it's been drilled at him from a few yards, but the ruling seems to be that if your hands are out at all and the ball hits you, it's a pen.
It looked a pen to me. Harsh, but them's the rules now it seems. |
If thats the case, we should stop trying to put the ball into the net, and just target defenders hands! | |
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| That penalty!!!! on 12:26 - Nov 22 with 1295 views | Radlett_blue |
| That penalty!!!! on 13:17 - Nov 21 by Chrisd |
The fact is more games this season I have watched when the ball hits the arm they aren’t always given by the official, where the last couple of seasons they have been. If his arm is above his head fair enough, the fact it’s hit with such force and Nsiala is quite close to the Sunderland player he’s not really got that much time to react. If that’s the rule, then it shows you people that are involved in making rules have probably not played the game very much. [Post edited 22 Nov 2021 13:25]
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Interesting that not one Sunderland player appealed for the penalty, which should have told the ref something, especially as they were screaming for ridiculous penalty kicks for most of the first half.
The only saving grace is that we were probably going to lose the game anyway, so the decision wasn't pivotal. |  |
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| That penalty!!!! on 14:27 - Nov 22 with 1263 views | Vaughan8 |
People saying "it hit his hand, its a penalty" are on last years pathetic rules.
I can't remeber who it was but there was one in the premier league this weekend where it hit an arm and it wasn't given.
I can't believe anyone can seriously say it was apenalty. SMashed at his arm from cms away. Come on. | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 14:47 - Nov 22 with 1243 views | Vic |
What frustrates/disappoints me more as I watch and rewatch the replay is the way no one even attempted to go with the Sunderland player who moved into space to recieve the throw. That was very poor and reminiscent of poor defending earlier in the season. |  |
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| That penalty!!!! on 15:05 - Nov 22 with 1206 views | Sawtrich |
| That penalty!!!! on 16:21 - Nov 21 by 2-5-7 |
Finer rule details are....
'A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation.'
If a player whellies a volley from pretty much point blank range like yesterday, Toto turning away from the force of the ball doesn't give him enough time to unnaturally make a 'bigger body' move to block it. He ain't The Flash is he??!
It isn't enough interpretation of the rule to 'just hit the arm in the box' to make a pen. It was not a penalty.
That aside the poor defending on the corner makes the pen and second goal irrelevant - but still a poor decision. Sunderland striker Stewart who booted it just stuck his hand in the air for a corner claim. Thats how stupid the ref was in awarding. |
The law is just ridiculous. The referee has to decide if the player's arm position is justifiable by the player's movement for the specific situation. How are you ever going to get any consistency? You might as well say if the ball strikes a player's arm in the box then toss a coin to decide if a penalty should be given. | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 15:11 - Nov 22 with 1196 views | ZXBlue |
| That penalty!!!! on 15:05 - Nov 22 by Sawtrich |
The law is just ridiculous. The referee has to decide if the player's arm position is justifiable by the player's movement for the specific situation. How are you ever going to get any consistency? You might as well say if the ball strikes a player's arm in the box then toss a coin to decide if a penalty should be given. |
The problem is that the level of judgment required by a ref has been reduced and limited, not that it is too much. | | | |
| That penalty!!!! on 15:17 - Nov 22 with 1192 views | Radlett_blue |
| That penalty!!!! on 15:11 - Nov 22 by ZXBlue |
The problem is that the level of judgment required by a ref has been reduced and limited, not that it is too much. |
Yes, the lawmakers decided that a penalty should be given if the ball strikes a defender's arm if it is an "unnatural position". I presume they wanted defenders to stop sticking their arms out to block shots and crosses, but the sort of interpretation of the Sunderland penalty is plain ridiculous. The same when a player jumps for a ball, he uses his arms for leverage so they will often be outstretched. | |
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| That penalty!!!! on 16:04 - Nov 22 with 1155 views | Sawtrich |
Personally I think it was very harsh and I certainly don't attach any blame to Toto. It's unrealistic to think defenders can spend the game running around with their arms behind their backs in case someone whacks it against them from close range. However, to defend his decision the ref simply has to say, 'I don't think his arm position was justified by his movement'.
It's easy to criticise but does anyone fancy coming up with the perfect wording of the handball law? | | | |
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