| Ok, come on then… 11:55 - Nov 24 with 5173 views | SitfcB |
…who wants a fight?
Just joking.
Nail your colours to the mast so to speak, last night seems to have ‘turned the tide’ quite a bit and I can’t believe we’re in this situation of discussing the future of Paul Cook after just 19 games in.
Do you genuinely think Cook is the wrong man and should go or do you understand the project and have the patience required?
Personally it’s way to early to be calling for his head, whilst obviously disappointed we are where we are it’s really not the end of world yet. This is a major work in progress - we are effectively a new club. New owners. A new board. New background staff, playing wise and ‘office’ wise. A new manager. A whole new playing squad. Forget last season and the past, this season was the start of something new.
Cook should have until the end of NEXT season in my opinion, unless things go drastically wrong in the next few months, which I don’t think it will, we will be in the hunt for the play-offs all season, this league is poor. Truly believe the second half of the season will be when we see the fruits of the forest from our squad.
Changing manager will be more of a hindrance than help. Time and patience is STILL very much required.
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| Ok, come on then… on 12:50 - Nov 24 with 974 views | jayessess |
Ignoring the obvious provocations...
Last chance saloon for me. 7 points was my absolute bare minimum for November, which he can still get. But a similarly indifferent December just won't cut it. |  |
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| Ok, come on then… on 12:58 - Nov 24 with 952 views | Fixed_It |
| Ok, come on then… on 12:29 - Nov 24 by Herbivore |
4/10. |
On the other hand, your debating skills are a 0/10 on this evidence. |  |
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| Ok, come on then… on 12:59 - Nov 24 with 948 views | Illinoisblue |
| Ok, come on then… on 12:50 - Nov 24 by Fixed_It |
I agree. Now is not the time for more turbulence and disruption. We can all see what Cook is trying to do, and it is frustrating as hell that it isn't quite working with any sort of consistency. We have had years of hurt, and I fully understand people's anxiety. But I genuinely believe that we need to hold our nerve in order to see it come to fruition. It's not as if Cook is a poor manager who hasn't had success before. He sticks to his principles, which is both admirable and a stick to beat him with when things don't go right. Last night was concerning, but we met a form team who managed the game perfectly, whilst we were under par. These things happen. Let's see what happens over the second half of the season. We should have a fair idea of how it is panning out by then. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 12:53]
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“We can all see what Cook is trying to do” - can we? Genuine question. |  |
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| Ok, come on then… on 13:02 - Nov 24 with 939 views | leitrimblue |
| Ok, come on then… on 12:33 - Nov 24 by HighgateBlue |
Fruits of the forest? Wood for the trees more like...
We're not 19 games into Cook's tenure. He had around that many last year and was cr@p then too. He doesn't get to pretend that didn't happen just because he misguidedly decided to bin our entire squad (I mean, OK, Wilson wasn't his fault - mighty Plymouth are promotion contenders, and who were we to stand in the way of our player of the season?).
Colours nailed. Broth spoiled. |
Who would you have kept from last year's squad? |  | | |
| Ok, come on then… on 13:05 - Nov 24 with 938 views | Fixed_It |
| Ok, come on then… on 12:59 - Nov 24 by Illinoisblue |
“We can all see what Cook is trying to do” - can we? Genuine question. |
If you understand the principles behind the 4 2 3 1 formation, then yes we can.
We need at least one marauding full-back though, if not two. Currently we have none, due to injury and the emergence of Donacien as a solid defensive option. | |
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| Ok, come on then… on 13:23 - Nov 24 with 902 views | jeera |
| Ok, come on then… on 13:05 - Nov 24 by Fixed_It |
If you understand the principles behind the 4 2 3 1 formation, then yes we can.
We need at least one marauding full-back though, if not two. Currently we have none, due to injury and the emergence of Donacien as a solid defensive option. |
Which means we're currently playing the wrong system for the personnel available? |  |
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| Ok, come on then… on 13:32 - Nov 24 with 885 views | N2_Blue |
| Ok, come on then… on 13:23 - Nov 24 by jeera |
Which means we're currently playing the wrong system for the personnel available? |
quite...and that is why the blame lies with Paul Cook.
He has been a good manager in the past but his management performance in how he is utilizing our squad Has quite frankly been pathetic. Last night's selection case in point.
3 10's behind Bonne. Playing Clements for 4 games in a few days having never played first team football before. There is no logic
No one is more surprised than me at his failing. But his failure to address it has lost my patience. |  |
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| Ok, come on then… on 13:35 - Nov 24 with 881 views | J2BLUE |
| Ok, come on then… on 13:05 - Nov 24 by Fixed_It |
If you understand the principles behind the 4 2 3 1 formation, then yes we can.
We need at least one marauding full-back though, if not two. Currently we have none, due to injury and the emergence of Donacien as a solid defensive option. |
A manager coming in with such an attachment to one system where there is no plan B and still using it when you are saying we don't have the full backs to do so is really worrying.
We could write down the names of the players we have for each position, put them into hats sorted by position and pick out an 11 at random in a 442 formation and we would likely be in a better position than we are now.
Cook is well under par. He should be doing much, much better with this squad. |  |
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| Ok, come on then… on 13:40 - Nov 24 with 852 views | Herbivore |
| Ok, come on then… on 12:50 - Nov 24 by Fixed_It |
I agree. Now is not the time for more turbulence and disruption. We can all see what Cook is trying to do, and it is frustrating as hell that it isn't quite working with any sort of consistency. We have had years of hurt, and I fully understand people's anxiety. But I genuinely believe that we need to hold our nerve in order to see it come to fruition. It's not as if Cook is a poor manager who hasn't had success before. He sticks to his principles, which is both admirable and a stick to beat him with when things don't go right. Last night was concerning, but we met a form team who managed the game perfectly, whilst we were under par. These things happen. Let's see what happens over the second half of the season. We should have a fair idea of how it is panning out by then. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 12:53]
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1/10
Even less subtle than Sitters. |  |
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| Ok, come on then… on 13:43 - Nov 24 with 833 views | Yallop |
Absolutely we have to give Cook this season. He's a manager with good pedigree at this level. We have a brand new squad and yes whilst results have been disappointing we have seen some fantastic attacking football this season that we've not seen for years.
Last night we were second best but Sunderland I travelled back feeling robbed and similarly Plymouth. We dominated them. Let's enjoy this season he'll tweak the squad in January, we aren't far from being one of the best in this league. |  | | |
| Ok, come on then… on 13:51 - Nov 24 with 805 views | Fixed_It |
| Ok, come on then… on 13:40 - Nov 24 by Herbivore |
1/10
Even less subtle than Sitters. |
Fancy joining in the debate, Herbs? No - thought not... | |
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| Ok, come on then… on 13:56 - Nov 24 with 789 views | jeera |
| Ok, come on then… on 13:51 - Nov 24 by Fixed_It |
Fancy joining in the debate, Herbs? No - thought not... |
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| Ok, come on then… on 14:04 - Nov 24 with 775 views | pennblue |
I am not sure about the end of NEXT season. But I think we need to support him THIS season, and see where we are at the end.
No doubt the last 3 league games + those dreadful 3 cup matches have not inspired any confidence that we are actually heading in the right direction.
But, I do think he needs another transfer window, and we should expect to see Top 6 by the end of the season.
For me, that is reasonable. Anyone calling for his head before then, has not given him a fair crack of the whip. |  |
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| Ok, come on then… on 14:06 - Nov 24 with 763 views | Herbivore |
| Ok, come on then… on 13:51 - Nov 24 by Fixed_It |
Fancy joining in the debate, Herbs? No - thought not... |
I don't see how we justify giving Cook the second half of this season based on his performance here to date. He's done a really, really poor job. Last night it was hard to see any real signs of progress. I'm still not sure what he's trying to do with the team or how he wants us to play. He has a settled formation but we have no identity and no cohesion. I see no real evidence based on his time here that he is capable of turning things around and getting us to where we want to be. | |
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| End of next season? Blimey on 14:24 - Nov 24 with 724 views | unstableblue |
Cook perhaps should be given to the end of this season… but there has to be visible progress… yeah they’ll be a few steps backwards along the way… but incremental improvement needs to be seen..
Of course managers should be given time, projects such as this need patience
But last night was very very poor… and it’s certainly making me laser in on whether Cook is the progressive and modern manager the club needed
Yes Rotherham were strong and a settled side, something to aspire to, but there was fear in the players and in the stands and that is very concerning. And critically the system was not flexed to pull players off Bonne and free space.
I do hope your loyalty is rewarded and that Morsy was right that the team were having a ‘below par’ night.
But we need a strong performance and win over Crewe.. and then something out of Wigan and Charlton or else that fear and negativity in the stands is I’m afraid going to grow
Getting Aluko, Burns and Coulson available will be something… but perhaps we need someone alongside Morsy
But the project ain’t in a good place right now … despite looking like we’ve sold out PR and taking 3,400 fans to an away game |  |
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| Ok, come on then… on 15:20 - Nov 24 with 681 views | Fixed_It |
| Ok, come on then… on 14:06 - Nov 24 by Herbivore |
I don't see how we justify giving Cook the second half of this season based on his performance here to date. He's done a really, really poor job. Last night it was hard to see any real signs of progress. I'm still not sure what he's trying to do with the team or how he wants us to play. He has a settled formation but we have no identity and no cohesion. I see no real evidence based on his time here that he is capable of turning things around and getting us to where we want to be. |
Last night was crap - there is no denying that. But Sunderland was not crap - just very, very frustrating. As was Plymouth away. And then there was Portsmouth and Wycombe away, when we were on fire. We are massively inconsistent - but there are signs of what this team ARE capable of. If we see it as a project, and don't expect 10 years of malaise to be turned around at the flick of a switch. Sometimes continuity, rather than continuing to roll the dice, is a good thing. Look where it has got the likes of Rotherham... | |
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| Ok, come on then… on 15:23 - Nov 24 with 671 views | BseaBlue |
| Ok, come on then… on 15:20 - Nov 24 by Fixed_It |
Last night was crap - there is no denying that. But Sunderland was not crap - just very, very frustrating. As was Plymouth away. And then there was Portsmouth and Wycombe away, when we were on fire. We are massively inconsistent - but there are signs of what this team ARE capable of. If we see it as a project, and don't expect 10 years of malaise to be turned around at the flick of a switch. Sometimes continuity, rather than continuing to roll the dice, is a good thing. Look where it has got the likes of Rotherham... |
Rotherham who have yo yo'd between league one and the championship? |  | | |
| Ok, come on then… on 15:25 - Nov 24 with 667 views | Fixed_It |
| Ok, come on then… on 15:23 - Nov 24 by BseaBlue |
Rotherham who have yo yo'd between league one and the championship? |
Yes. Seriously punching above their weight, and giving a football lesson to many 'bigger' clubs in the process. | |
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| Ok, come on then… on 15:29 - Nov 24 with 656 views | BseaBlue |
| Ok, come on then… on 15:25 - Nov 24 by Fixed_It |
Yes. Seriously punching above their weight, and giving a football lesson to many 'bigger' clubs in the process. |
I think our expectations of growth outweighs theirs though in terms of the budget and resourcing. I don't disagree with your point about continuity but I just don't feel Cook has shown enough in his time here to justify an extended allowance of patience. | | | |
| Ok, come on then… on 15:30 - Nov 24 with 652 views | Herbivore |
| Ok, come on then… on 15:20 - Nov 24 by Fixed_It |
Last night was crap - there is no denying that. But Sunderland was not crap - just very, very frustrating. As was Plymouth away. And then there was Portsmouth and Wycombe away, when we were on fire. We are massively inconsistent - but there are signs of what this team ARE capable of. If we see it as a project, and don't expect 10 years of malaise to be turned around at the flick of a switch. Sometimes continuity, rather than continuing to roll the dice, is a good thing. Look where it has got the likes of Rotherham... |
What does the last 10 years have to do with this squad or this manager? We keep hearing about how everything is brand new so I don't buy that somehow the history is weighing us down, it's not their history, they had nothing to do with the past malaise.
Ultimately frustrating is little better than crap if it yields us zero points. The glimpses of what we can do are infrequent in amongst the very mediocre reality of what we're actually doing. We're absolutely miles off for me at the minute and I'm seeing precious little from Cook that gives me faith he's the man to turn it around. You don't stick with a manager that's failing on the off chance they might stop failing, we tried that with Lambert. | |
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| Ok, come on then… on 15:40 - Nov 24 with 632 views | BiGDonnie |
I'm Cook out.
Mainly the fact that we seem to be going backwards. |  |
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| Ok, come on then… on 15:49 - Nov 24 with 613 views | itfcsuth |
Having slept on last night, when the emotions are naturally high, I have certainly relaxed a little - (I couldn't work in football, would be too emotionally reactive!)
I think Cook is good manager, and I would lean certainly towards your side of think long term.
We need to make improvements quickly, because we look frustratingly inconsistent right now.
Stick with him until the end of the season at a minimum and take stock of where we are then.
I don't have the view we must be promoted this season, and certainly look at this as long term project still.
Nailing colours to the mast, definitely Cook in. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 15:53]
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| Ok, come on then… on 15:54 - Nov 24 with 607 views | Fixed_It |
| Ok, come on then… on 15:30 - Nov 24 by Herbivore |
What does the last 10 years have to do with this squad or this manager? We keep hearing about how everything is brand new so I don't buy that somehow the history is weighing us down, it's not their history, they had nothing to do with the past malaise.
Ultimately frustrating is little better than crap if it yields us zero points. The glimpses of what we can do are infrequent in amongst the very mediocre reality of what we're actually doing. We're absolutely miles off for me at the minute and I'm seeing precious little from Cook that gives me faith he's the man to turn it around. You don't stick with a manager that's failing on the off chance they might stop failing, we tried that with Lambert. |
The 10 years of malaise led to a total clearout and re-boot. To expect it to all suddenly click into place like a well-oiled machine is a bit naive - think we've all been a bit guilty of that to an extent if we're honest. | |
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| Ok, come on then… on 15:57 - Nov 24 with 600 views | istanblue |
...and here we go. Yet another example of the excuse-making culture and tolerance of failure that ITFC needs to get rid of. The idea that was always a ''2 year project'' is utterly laughable. Do you seriously think the owners spent big bucks on players in the summer just so we can sit 13th? I don't think so. Also probably spending a large whack on loan players like Celina, Bonne and Walton which further disproves the ''2 year project'' myth. Minimum requirement is probably top 6 and that is looking more distant than ever. Fortunately, we now have owners that won't put up with mediocrity and underachievement like a large section of so-called 'fans'. Cook WILL be gone by Xmas if things stay as they are. |  | | |
| Ok, come on then… on 16:03 - Nov 24 with 590 views | Herbivore |
| Ok, come on then… on 15:54 - Nov 24 by Fixed_It |
The 10 years of malaise led to a total clearout and re-boot. To expect it to all suddenly click into place like a well-oiled machine is a bit naive - think we've all been a bit guilty of that to an extent if we're honest. |
Nobody expected it all to click immediately. That said, there's a massive area between clicking immediately and only taking 3 points from a very kind opening 6 games. Most of us hoped we'd fall somewhere in between. And I think most of us had hoped that coming up to the end of November we wouldn't still be using the newness of the squad as an excuse. Plenty of other sides have made 15+ signings and taken less time to start performing than we have. That we're still bumbling along not really pushing on is really disappointing and at some point you have to start wondering if it'll ever happen with this manager, especially given how poor his record here is overall. | |
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