| You can type "twit".... on 13:58 - Nov 25 with 1062 views | giant_stow |
| You can type "twit".... on 13:22 - Nov 25 by Bloots |
....you don't need the asterisk.
Unless you are meaning something else, in which case there's little need for the abuse.
Even if he is a budgie. |
Tbh, I'm tired of people getting abusive - we ought to be able to discuss things in a respectful way. Even contentious things.
I've consistently argued the case for the poorest, most vulnerable people in society in this thread only to be met by mostly left-wingers treating me like I just called for the death penalty to be re-instated or for Trump to be made World president in perpetuity.
I think this says more about them than me. Perhaps Philace should do one of his periodic reminders to the kids to play nicely?
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:00 - Nov 25 with 1045 views | giant_stow |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 13:45 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
There are some interesting points being made on different sides of this topic.
Surely by definition a Unionised industry is organised to protect and improve the working conditions of its members and usually to increase its membership numbers.
The union will have responsibility to its members but not to society as a whole.
Where a union represents workers that are poorly paid and have bad working conditions they can serve a valuable purpose. On the other hand where unionised workers are seen to enjoy better terms and conditions than the majority of workers enjoy it is not unreasonable for the general public to view their strike action as selfish and damaging to the general working community and public.
So some strikes are justified but not all are. Also with the benefit of hindsight we can see that many strikes took place in order to protect dying industries and to try to protect shrinking unions. Think coal and print unions. Both sides in the above debate have some right on their side. The big question is how can a society enable workers rights whilst at the same time ensure that society is not held to ransome by unions controlling key industries. |
Thanks for the thoughtful contribution. The idea that a strike is *always* a moral positive is exactly what I'm arguing against. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:05 - Nov 25 with 1035 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 13:53 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
Depends! Their great in a Knickerbocker glory obviously. On their own I prefer um to an apple but they can't touch a raspberry or actually any of the berrie family. Nice breakfast. Just burnt some toast I was gonna snack on! |
Hope I didn't distract you. Apologies if I did.
Interesting that you love the berry variety of fruits.
Gooseberry and rhubarb crumble use to be a favourite. With custard obviously.
The banana doesn't seem to get much support around here, so much be the rest of the country eating them.
Thanks for the feedback. |  | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:12 - Nov 25 with 1021 views | leitrimblue |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:05 - Nov 25 by Oldboy |
Hope I didn't distract you. Apologies if I did.
Interesting that you love the berry variety of fruits.
Gooseberry and rhubarb crumble use to be a favourite. With custard obviously.
The banana doesn't seem to get much support around here, so much be the rest of the country eating them.
Thanks for the feedback. |
Gooseberry an rhubarb crumble with custard sounds excellent. The gooseberry is possibly the most underated an underused of all the berries |  | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:17 - Nov 25 with 999 views | footers |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:00 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
Thanks for the thoughtful contribution. The idea that a strike is *always* a moral positive is exactly what I'm arguing against. |
Yet you keep blaming workers for striking and bosses not meeting any demands. So you're on the opposite side of 'the little man' and continue to blame working people for taking strike action when a settlement couldn't be reached. |  |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:25 - Nov 25 with 985 views | giant_stow |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:17 - Nov 25 by footers |
Yet you keep blaming workers for striking and bosses not meeting any demands. So you're on the opposite side of 'the little man' and continue to blame working people for taking strike action when a settlement couldn't be reached. |
This is your problem. You can't comprehend that tube drivers are no longer the 'little guys', but are instead screwing over the *real* working poor by treating them as expendable fodder to be played with at will. I do indeed take the tube bosses side in this dispute for the numerous contextual reasons I outlined above (which everyone chose to ignore). It just happens that those bosses interests and those of the working poor align, so yes, I stand by that. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:26 - Nov 25 with 983 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:12 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
Gooseberry an rhubarb crumble with custard sounds excellent. The gooseberry is possibly the most underated an underused of all the berries |
Had a gooseberry bush in our garden when I was a kid. Me and my mates use to see how many we could put in our mouth and eat in one go.
From memory the most was 9.
Very sour on their own. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:28 - Nov 25 with 967 views | giant_stow |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:26 - Nov 25 by Oldboy |
Had a gooseberry bush in our garden when I was a kid. Me and my mates use to see how many we could put in our mouth and eat in one go.
From memory the most was 9.
Very sour on their own. |
I have a gooseberry bush too, but it makes horrible little sour things so I ignore it. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:32 - Nov 25 with 951 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:28 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
I have a gooseberry bush too, but it makes horrible little sour things so I ignore it. |
Sounds a bit like the people arguing with you here. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:32 - Nov 25 with 949 views | footers |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:25 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
This is your problem. You can't comprehend that tube drivers are no longer the 'little guys', but are instead screwing over the *real* working poor by treating them as expendable fodder to be played with at will. I do indeed take the tube bosses side in this dispute for the numerous contextual reasons I outlined above (which everyone chose to ignore). It just happens that those bosses interests and those of the working poor align, so yes, I stand by that. |
So everything should just stay the same and the Tube drivers should simply shut up and accept any conditions given to them?
Always knew you were a shy Tory but it's becoming ever more clear what side your bread's buttered on. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:36 - Nov 25 with 945 views | giant_stow |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:32 - Nov 25 by footers |
So everything should just stay the same and the Tube drivers should simply shut up and accept any conditions given to them?
Always knew you were a shy Tory but it's becoming ever more clear what side your bread's buttered on. |
In this instance yes - they should do exactly that for the benefit of other transport workers and working poor who are in more need than them.
I honestly don’t understand how that makes me a Tory (never voted for them) but if you want to ignore my reasoning so that you can call me names, then go for it. Power to the people, but only if they’re the *right* people hey? How elitist. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:39 - Nov 25 with 934 views | footers |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:36 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
In this instance yes - they should do exactly that for the benefit of other transport workers and working poor who are in more need than them.
I honestly don’t understand how that makes me a Tory (never voted for them) but if you want to ignore my reasoning so that you can call me names, then go for it. Power to the people, but only if they’re the *right* people hey? How elitist. |
'Other people are worse off so you should just get on with it' seems to be your enlightened position. It's a race to the bottom.
Simple as that. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:41 - Nov 25 with 929 views | Oldboy |
Don't know what the tube drivers are arguing about, but just looked up average wage and it is just over £55,000pa. so can't be that. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:45 - Nov 25 with 920 views | giant_stow |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:39 - Nov 25 by footers |
'Other people are worse off so you should just get on with it' seems to be your enlightened position. It's a race to the bottom.
Simple as that. |
Out of Interest, what would you say to the cleaner who can’t get to their job without spending half their wages to get there and back this weekend? [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 14:45]
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:48 - Nov 25 with 904 views | footers |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:45 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
Out of Interest, what would you say to the cleaner who can’t get to their job without spending half their wages to get there and back this weekend? [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 14:45]
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Shame on the TfL bosses for not respecting their workers' conditions?
And it's only Tube drivers. Buses are also available. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:50 - Nov 25 with 902 views | giant_stow |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:48 - Nov 25 by footers |
Shame on the TfL bosses for not respecting their workers' conditions?
And it's only Tube drivers. Buses are also available. |
Do you think that would wash?!
I doubt it.
Buses are getting cut and getting cut in poorest areas. Not yet, but no doubt there'll be another tube strike along soon enough. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:52 - Nov 25 with 889 views | footers |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:50 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
Do you think that would wash?!
I doubt it.
Buses are getting cut and getting cut in poorest areas. Not yet, but no doubt there'll be another tube strike along soon enough. |
Maybe the bus drivers should strike? But nah, you'd be against that too.
See? Slippery slope. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:55 - Nov 25 with 879 views | J2BLUE |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:50 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
Do you think that would wash?!
I doubt it.
Buses are getting cut and getting cut in poorest areas. Not yet, but no doubt there'll be another tube strike along soon enough. |
Where should the line be drawn? Tube strikers shouldn't strike because it inconveniences the cleaner. We can make the same argument about everything. Supermarket staff shouldn't strike because it would impact pensioners and shareholders. Every industry shutting down for a while would inconvenience someone. That's the point. If it didn't inconvenience anyone it wouldn't be much of a point would it?
Everyone should be getting a fair compensation package for the job they do and treated fairly. No one should put up with sh1t conditions because it inconveniences someone else. While we're all turning on each other the people who could resolve it just happily let us get on with it.
On a side note, I would LOVE to see Amazon staff strike on Black Friday in the UK. Think it's happening in the US. Good on them. |  |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:55 - Nov 25 with 878 views | leitrimblue |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:28 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
I have a gooseberry bush too, but it makes horrible little sour things so I ignore it. |
Feck me Ull,s, you've really crossed a line now! I also have gooseberry bushes. They produce hairy little green balls of joy. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:57 - Nov 25 with 874 views | giant_stow |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:52 - Nov 25 by footers |
Maybe the bus drivers should strike? But nah, you'd be against that too.
See? Slippery slope. |
The bus drivers are no where near as well paid and also don't have a history of striking at everything, so no - they'd have more of a reason.
If we're talking hypotheticals, what if bankers decided to strike on mass? All cash transactions shut down - society falls apart for a day. Would you be in favour of that? | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:58 - Nov 25 with 872 views | giant_stow |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:55 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
Feck me Ull,s, you've really crossed a line now! I also have gooseberry bushes. They produce hairy little green balls of joy. |
Thank you for not joining the pile on. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:59 - Nov 25 with 862 views | footers |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:57 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
The bus drivers are no where near as well paid and also don't have a history of striking at everything, so no - they'd have more of a reason.
If we're talking hypotheticals, what if bankers decided to strike on mass? All cash transactions shut down - society falls apart for a day. Would you be in favour of that? |
Bankers.... striking....
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 15:02 - Nov 25 with 852 views | J2BLUE |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:57 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
The bus drivers are no where near as well paid and also don't have a history of striking at everything, so no - they'd have more of a reason.
If we're talking hypotheticals, what if bankers decided to strike on mass? All cash transactions shut down - society falls apart for a day. Would you be in favour of that? |
Yes | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 15:03 - Nov 25 with 845 views | Herbivore |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:45 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
Out of Interest, what would you say to the cleaner who can’t get to their job without spending half their wages to get there and back this weekend? [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 14:45]
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Have you got any actual real life examples of this? Presumably if they are living somewhere that's served by the tube then they will also have buses they can catch, and isn't the bus usually cheaper than the tube on an Oyster card? I'm not aware of places being served by the tube that are so remote that no other forms of reasonably priced public transport exist for them to use. |  |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 15:05 - Nov 25 with 844 views | giant_stow |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:55 - Nov 25 by J2BLUE |
Where should the line be drawn? Tube strikers shouldn't strike because it inconveniences the cleaner. We can make the same argument about everything. Supermarket staff shouldn't strike because it would impact pensioners and shareholders. Every industry shutting down for a while would inconvenience someone. That's the point. If it didn't inconvenience anyone it wouldn't be much of a point would it?
Everyone should be getting a fair compensation package for the job they do and treated fairly. No one should put up with sh1t conditions because it inconveniences someone else. While we're all turning on each other the people who could resolve it just happily let us get on with it.
On a side note, I would LOVE to see Amazon staff strike on Black Friday in the UK. Think it's happening in the US. Good on them. |
I'm not just saying that tube drivers shouldn't strike because of the inconvenience though. They’re also comfortably paid so might be expected to give something back for the common good and to not screw with those less fortunate. Remember that lost TFL revenue too.
They’re also in a sort of monopoly position, unlike your Supermarket example. There would be other supermarkets open or corner shops, or simply people storing food in advance to take the edge off. There’s no such option for some working poor.
I’m going to have leave this now — the work is stacking up. | |
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