| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 15:19 - Nov 25 with 892 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 15:03 - Nov 25 by Herbivore |
Have you got any actual real life examples of this? Presumably if they are living somewhere that's served by the tube then they will also have buses they can catch, and isn't the bus usually cheaper than the tube on an Oyster card? I'm not aware of places being served by the tube that are so remote that no other forms of reasonably priced public transport exist for them to use. |
You've never been in London on the day of a tube strike have you, do you imagine loads of red buses zooming down the road at ease?
Last time I was in town on a tube strike the entire city was gridlocked. |  |
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| To be fair to Phil..... on 15:32 - Nov 25 with 876 views | Bloots |
| You can type "twit".... on 13:58 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
Tbh, I'm tired of people getting abusive - we ought to be able to discuss things in a respectful way. Even contentious things.
I've consistently argued the case for the poorest, most vulnerable people in society in this thread only to be met by mostly left-wingers treating me like I just called for the death penalty to be re-instated or for Trump to be made World president in perpetuity.
I think this says more about them than me. Perhaps Philace should do one of his periodic reminders to the kids to play nicely?
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....he did pull them up on it previously.
They all ran off with their tails between their legs.
But then a few of them came back......now we are back to square one.
Anyway, sod off budgie. |  |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 16:44 - Nov 25 with 840 views | You_Bloo_Right |
Can I ask you a question Ullaa?
What do you think the TfL/RMT dispute is about? |  |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 16:53 - Nov 25 with 823 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 16:44 - Nov 25 by You_Bloo_Right |
Can I ask you a question Ullaa?
What do you think the TfL/RMT dispute is about? |
Is it what to have for tea.
Tonight I am torn between.
Sweet & Sour Chicken with Egg Fried Rice or Steak Pie and Mashed Potatoes with Peas and Gravy.
I'll keep you updated. |  | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 16:58 - Nov 25 with 820 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 14:00 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
Thanks for the thoughtful contribution. The idea that a strike is *always* a moral positive is exactly what I'm arguing against. |
Indeed - beware the man who displays absolute certainty and entertains no doubt. For simple facts will never change his mind. |  | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:05 - Nov 25 with 801 views | leitrimblue |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 16:53 - Nov 25 by Oldboy |
Is it what to have for tea.
Tonight I am torn between.
Sweet & Sour Chicken with Egg Fried Rice or Steak Pie and Mashed Potatoes with Peas and Gravy.
I'll keep you updated. |
That's a no brainier. Steak pie an mash every time. Plus didn't you have chicken yesterday? Don't want chicken 2 days in a row unless it's KFC |  | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:18 - Nov 25 with 767 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 16:44 - Nov 25 by You_Bloo_Right |
Can I ask you a question Ullaa?
What do you think the TfL/RMT dispute is about? |
Could it be:
1. a powerful union controlling critical infrastructure refusing to accommodate reasonable and necessary flexibity at little real cost to their members unless it’s workers are granted even greater benefits than they already enjoy.
Or
2. A Union fighting to protect its poor much abused workers from their wealthy employer (I.e. the taxpayer).
You pays your money and makes your choice.
I am inclined to the view that as more and more workers rights on minimum wage and employment rights have been legislated there is less and less justification for strikes arising from collective bargaining. There remains though the need for union organisations to be able to support the individual worker, or workers, who might find themselves in dispute with a disproportionately powerful employer. Though it doesn’t make the headlines very often this latter type of representation is probably the major role for many unions today. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:19 - Nov 25 with 764 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:05 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
That's a no brainier. Steak pie an mash every time. Plus didn't you have chicken yesterday? Don't want chicken 2 days in a row unless it's KFC |
I do eat a lot of chicken.
2 chicken breasts sliced with some mixed peppers fried.
Boil some rice with half a tin petit pois peas.
Half way through frying, add chopped pineapple (tinned is fine) and some chopped leaks. Add a pack of sweet and sour sauce. (To much hassle to make). Once cooked remove to oven proof dish.
Drain rice and peas and put in frying pan. Part in the middle and add 2 eggs. Constantly stir until eggs are cooked.
Place rice in middle of plate and separate. Pour chicken and others over the top and enjoy. | | | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:21 - Nov 25 with 752 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:05 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
That's a no brainier. Steak pie an mash every time. Plus didn't you have chicken yesterday? Don't want chicken 2 days in a row unless it's KFC |
Having said that, Pie & Mash it is. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:22 - Nov 25 with 742 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:19 - Nov 25 by Oldboy |
I do eat a lot of chicken.
2 chicken breasts sliced with some mixed peppers fried.
Boil some rice with half a tin petit pois peas.
Half way through frying, add chopped pineapple (tinned is fine) and some chopped leaks. Add a pack of sweet and sour sauce. (To much hassle to make). Once cooked remove to oven proof dish.
Drain rice and peas and put in frying pan. Part in the middle and add 2 eggs. Constantly stir until eggs are cooked.
Place rice in middle of plate and separate. Pour chicken and others over the top and enjoy. |
Slightly off subject but chicken is too cheap isn't it - no pun intended.
I mean, they are usually about £3.50 aren't they. It's crazy really.
Even more crazy that lazy bastards would rather pay more for a ready meal full of sh1te.
I'm of the opinion that chickens should have a better life and cost more. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:25 - Nov 25 with 725 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:22 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Slightly off subject but chicken is too cheap isn't it - no pun intended.
I mean, they are usually about £3.50 aren't they. It's crazy really.
Even more crazy that lazy bastards would rather pay more for a ready meal full of sh1te.
I'm of the opinion that chickens should have a better life and cost more. |
I just buy them from the supermarket. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:26 - Nov 25 with 717 views | J2BLUE |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:22 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Slightly off subject but chicken is too cheap isn't it - no pun intended.
I mean, they are usually about £3.50 aren't they. It's crazy really.
Even more crazy that lazy bastards would rather pay more for a ready meal full of sh1te.
I'm of the opinion that chickens should have a better life and cost more. |
You can buy a more expensive chicken which had a much better life.
Organic free range. |  |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:27 - Nov 25 with 709 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:22 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Slightly off subject but chicken is too cheap isn't it - no pun intended.
I mean, they are usually about £3.50 aren't they. It's crazy really.
Even more crazy that lazy bastards would rather pay more for a ready meal full of sh1te.
I'm of the opinion that chickens should have a better life and cost more. |
Please don't ask the chicken farmers to go on strike. I like chicken. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:28 - Nov 25 with 695 views | J2BLUE |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:27 - Nov 25 by Oldboy |
Please don't ask the chicken farmers to go on strike. I like chicken. |
Is a serving of chicken better or worse than a banana? | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:29 - Nov 25 with 693 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:26 - Nov 25 by J2BLUE |
You can buy a more expensive chicken which had a much better life.
Organic free range. |
Yes, I am aware of that.
I am suggesting they should all have a better life, the problem though is that if they were all free range we wouldn't have enough room for them. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:29 - Nov 25 with 694 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:26 - Nov 25 by J2BLUE |
You can buy a more expensive chicken which had a much better life.
Organic free range. |
I usually fry them, so a bit of a waste buying the good stuff. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:30 - Nov 25 with 670 views | J2BLUE |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:29 - Nov 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Yes, I am aware of that.
I am suggesting they should all have a better life, the problem though is that if they were all free range we wouldn't have enough room for them. |
#chickpeasnotchickens | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:31 - Nov 25 with 659 views | J2BLUE |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:29 - Nov 25 by Oldboy |
I usually fry them, so a bit of a waste buying the good stuff. |
Not for the chicken. | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:31 - Nov 25 with 656 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:28 - Nov 25 by J2BLUE |
Is a serving of chicken better or worse than a banana? |
I like both, but don't think chicken is overrated. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:35 - Nov 25 with 627 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:31 - Nov 25 by J2BLUE |
Not for the chicken. |
I'm not in charge of the chicken farmers, so not my argument really. I am probably a lot older than you and possibly have different views than you on this kind of thing. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:42 - Nov 25 with 589 views | J2BLUE |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:35 - Nov 25 by Oldboy |
I'm not in charge of the chicken farmers, so not my argument really. I am probably a lot older than you and possibly have different views than you on this kind of thing. |
What giving a chicken enough space to move?
I'm off to watch the NFL. Have a good night x | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:47 - Nov 25 with 564 views | Oldboy |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:42 - Nov 25 by J2BLUE |
What giving a chicken enough space to move?
I'm off to watch the NFL. Have a good night x |
My Wife is a vegan. She deals with all that sort of stuff.
I just like chicken. | | | |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 18:10 - Nov 25 with 509 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 17:18 - Nov 25 by Crawfordsboot |
Could it be:
1. a powerful union controlling critical infrastructure refusing to accommodate reasonable and necessary flexibity at little real cost to their members unless it’s workers are granted even greater benefits than they already enjoy.
Or
2. A Union fighting to protect its poor much abused workers from their wealthy employer (I.e. the taxpayer).
You pays your money and makes your choice.
I am inclined to the view that as more and more workers rights on minimum wage and employment rights have been legislated there is less and less justification for strikes arising from collective bargaining. There remains though the need for union organisations to be able to support the individual worker, or workers, who might find themselves in dispute with a disproportionately powerful employer. Though it doesn’t make the headlines very often this latter type of representation is probably the major role for many unions today. |
I'm inclined to the view that giving away the right to collective bargaining is a major step backwards in terms of both labour relations and human rights leading, as I believe it would, to the atrophying of the TU movement with subsequent (predictable IMO) reductions in standards of working conditions, individual worker's rights as well, of course, in pay and other "rewards" packages.
I have no doubt that certain elements of our society would love to see TUs become little more than a combination of the CAB and pro bono lawyers. Whilst this is, as you imply, a very important part of the role TUs play it is not all they can do, and should be allowed to continue to do, for their members.
Your faith in legislation does not cut it for me I'm afraid. Progress on things like minimum wage (or alternatives such as guaranteed basic income) has, at least in this country, been particularly slow. Indeed it is perhaps instructive that the Scandinavian countries, who regularly seem to reach the top of things like the quality of life index, have no legislation surrounding minimum wage but allow wage levels to be set via ........... collective bargaining. I don't have your faith that working standards would be enshrined in law were it not for the past (present and probably future) actions of organisations like TUs - the evidence of history remains too powerful.
I do find the way you couch your alternatives somewhat weighted so perhaps you could answer the question. What, do you think, this dispute is specifically about? | |
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 18:21 - Nov 25 with 482 views | giant_stow |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 16:44 - Nov 25 by You_Bloo_Right |
Can I ask you a question Ullaa?
What do you think the TfL/RMT dispute is about? |
I've kind of had enough of this one tbh, but its about changes to working conditions brought about by the removal of the night time grade of driver. The others are being asked to cover the work load.
(btw, thanks to Phil for removing one of XYZ's delightful (not to mention sexist) contributions - but I didn't ask for that, just to be clear. i wonder if he's sobered up yet? [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 18:22]
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| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 18:29 - Nov 25 with 444 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Entitled higher tax rate payers… on 18:21 - Nov 25 by giant_stow |
I've kind of had enough of this one tbh, but its about changes to working conditions brought about by the removal of the night time grade of driver. The others are being asked to cover the work load.
(btw, thanks to Phil for removing one of XYZ's delightful (not to mention sexist) contributions - but I didn't ask for that, just to be clear. i wonder if he's sobered up yet? [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 18:22]
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OK noted that you have a handle on the nature of the dispute.
Noted too your call for RMT members to roll over "for the greater good".
And finally, after you have raised the issue in such an emotive manner and failed to really address any of the points the less abusive people on the thread have made trying to tease out of you why you think we should all (well at least the tube drivers) worsen our own lot because other workers are even worse off (and not just financially), noted too that you no longer wish to debate.
I think I've tried my best to be civil and I think I have raised some counter arguments worthy of consideration. I have less patience than some of the more respected people on here, so you drop out of this one and I will allow myself the indulgence of not taking anything you say in future with any seriousness. | |
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