| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky 14:24 - Nov 30 with 4318 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
Now isn't the time to panic. I'm reading too many posts where the panic button seems to have been hit.
Nothing is wrapped up in November, we have an ownership who will back us in January and we have a manager who is experienced enough for this division. It's a long season and a busy December where the league table will change with the amount of fixtures.
Performances recently haven't quite been there, but I do think we're missing Wes Burns, I do think we're missing dynamic full backs who add quality in the opposition half and I do think we're just needing to build up some momentum again. All three of those WILL return though.
There's no right or wrong answer, but for those who do feel a change of manager is needed, who would you get and why? |  |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:23 - Nov 30 with 739 views | kizaitfc |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:16 - Nov 30 by Illinoisblue |
“All three of those WILL return”. You are aware of our still ongoing problems with getting and keeping players fit? |
I wouldnt be surprised if Cook gives up on KVY and Coulson and signs more reliable fullbacks in Jan.
You need a solid back 5, the constant changing has not helped our season IMO |  |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:25 - Nov 30 with 733 views | kizaitfc |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:13 - Nov 30 by wkj |
I think that Cook made a mistake by letting Wilson go, I think Wilson and Edmundson would have been a snappy partnership at the back. Other than that, fair assessment. |
Very little difference between Wilson and Burgess, the problem with Burgess is; Cook likes to play a highline (remember he is a Liverpool fan that likes to create a league 1/Championship version of Liverpool). Burgess and Wilson cannot play like this, Burgess showed this when up against Sears against Colchester in the Pizza cup.
Toto and Edmundson far more effective at that role. | |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:28 - Nov 30 with 725 views | hadleighboyblue |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 14:56 - Nov 30 by kizaitfc |
Why do we have any right to be above 11th?
Some fans seem to think just because we are Ipswich Town that League 1 is beneath us.
Yes we spent some money in the summer but no teams get that sort of recruitment right first time, some players come in and will be here for a long time (I hope). Others will be duds, I personally thought the signings of Harper, Edwards and Piggot were some of the best transfer we have seen for years, only one of those has turned out to be good enough to start regularly, and even that is questionable. One of the best exciting signing was Barry from Villa who has turned out to be nowhere near good enough. Most thought Aluko was our worst signing some even argued we shouldn't have signed him but he has been a great addition. Who would have thought one of our top players would be Donacien!
There is no exact formula to this, it is going to take time, Sunderland have been playing around with their squad for 3 or 4 years now, and you'd still argue haven't got it right (based on our match). I would stress that we need to be patient and if we start seeing a decline then yes I would worry. Lets see what the new year brings, |
Agree about some signings not progressing , but I wouldn't write off the likes of Harper , Edwards etc .
The squad is so obviously an improvement on last season , there isn't one player I miss from last season .
The football is so much better , but we're not there yet , admittedly we need to be more flexible tactics wise - I think the best signing we could make in January would be a decent tactician to be PC's assistant .
Some fans only seem happy when they are moaning , get behind the club FFS , it's a much better place to be than it has been for years | | | |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:30 - Nov 30 with 720 views | Garv |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 14:52 - Nov 30 by Herbivore |
I think it depends on whether you focus just on the times that it's clicked or whether you look at it as a whole. We've had some dire halves of football this season where we've basically created nothing at all. At other times we still seem obsessed with slow possession in our own half followed by a big punt upfield. There's been some good stuff too, but it's patchy. |
So we want it work all the time and every time, basically?
A number of our goals have come from slow possession in our own half. I can guarantee lots of people in the crowd before Celina's winner against Fleetwood would have been resigned to drawing that game and were bored of the square passes we were playing. Suddenly Evans spotted a run and executed a pass that resulted in the goal.
Obviously other times it won't happen and the clearance is needed. Toto doesn't help this sadly, because his instinct is to face his own goal, but this isn't a Cook/formation/system issue. |  |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:35 - Nov 30 with 710 views | Herbivore |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:12 - Nov 30 by kizaitfc |
I agree with all of these points, clearly we aren't playing to the level we want to be.
But my point is that it doesn't make changing the manager the right thing to do. Cook clearly has a plan, to me it's a plan that doesnt suit the current first 11 particularly the full backs.
As good as Donacien has been, when Coulson is back fit, I'd really like to see KVY and Coulson on each flank. Maybe Donacien could play at CB in place of Toto as his strengthen is certainly his defending particularly 1vs1.
If KVY cant stay fit I wouldnt be surprised to see us send Barry back to Villa and search for a RB on loan |
KVY has been fit most of the season but after a couple of slightly ropey games Cook benched him. If Cook has a plan but that plan doesn't suit the 20 players he's signed and the 11 he selects every week, isn't that something to be worried about?
I am less convinced than you that we do have a plan, at this stage I'd hoped to see an identity and style of play developing but I'm not really seeing it. That's why I wouldn't be remotely bothered if he got binned tomorrow. He hasn't been good enough and I've not seen enough to have confidence that we'll improve sufficiently under him to have even a par season. |  |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:41 - Nov 30 with 695 views | positivity |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:35 - Nov 30 by Herbivore |
KVY has been fit most of the season but after a couple of slightly ropey games Cook benched him. If Cook has a plan but that plan doesn't suit the 20 players he's signed and the 11 he selects every week, isn't that something to be worried about?
I am less convinced than you that we do have a plan, at this stage I'd hoped to see an identity and style of play developing but I'm not really seeing it. That's why I wouldn't be remotely bothered if he got binned tomorrow. He hasn't been good enough and I've not seen enough to have confidence that we'll improve sufficiently under him to have even a par season. |
if you apply the same critical lens that sees kvy's bolton display as only "slightly ropey", you'll be rather happier about cook's performance!
fortunately, wycombe was much better. hope he'll get some time to further restore his confidence against arsenal and barrow | |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:42 - Nov 30 with 691 views | lowhouseblue |
and actually, to be fair, he doesn't seem to be any worse than 4 out of our most recent 5 managers, so we should really count our blessings. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:47 - Nov 30 with 678 views | Herbivore |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:30 - Nov 30 by Garv |
So we want it work all the time and every time, basically?
A number of our goals have come from slow possession in our own half. I can guarantee lots of people in the crowd before Celina's winner against Fleetwood would have been resigned to drawing that game and were bored of the square passes we were playing. Suddenly Evans spotted a run and executed a pass that resulted in the goal.
Obviously other times it won't happen and the clearance is needed. Toto doesn't help this sadly, because his instinct is to face his own goal, but this isn't a Cook/formation/system issue. |
No, I just disagree that we've been this amazing, entertaining powerhouse of the third division that, despite our awesome creativity and incredible football, are sat squarely in midtable. I've managed to see just shy of half our games this season, including our three big wins, and we've been pretty turgid as often as we've been decent. And actually we aren't anywhere near as creative as our fans make out.
You say that Toto being poor on the ball isn't a system issue and that's true, likewise moments of brilliance like Celina's goal on Sunday have very little to do Cook's system either. It was a punt upfield that Celina turned into something. I'd argue many of our goals this season have owed more to individual moments of quality than to any clear style or patterns of play. | |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:52 - Nov 30 with 666 views | kizaitfc |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:47 - Nov 30 by Herbivore |
No, I just disagree that we've been this amazing, entertaining powerhouse of the third division that, despite our awesome creativity and incredible football, are sat squarely in midtable. I've managed to see just shy of half our games this season, including our three big wins, and we've been pretty turgid as often as we've been decent. And actually we aren't anywhere near as creative as our fans make out.
You say that Toto being poor on the ball isn't a system issue and that's true, likewise moments of brilliance like Celina's goal on Sunday have very little to do Cook's system either. It was a punt upfield that Celina turned into something. I'd argue many of our goals this season have owed more to individual moments of quality than to any clear style or patterns of play. |
I dont think anyone is saying we have been amazing,
Here just seems to be 2 extremes with our fanbase, its amazing or its sack the manager.
We used to be patient with managers and that worked, if the last few years have taught us anything it should be the grass isnt always greener.
Cook has proven track record, maybe I am blindly optimistic that he will recreate his performance at prior clubs here, but lets be honest it is far from awful at the moment so lets at least give him the season before we judge his performance. | |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:57 - Nov 30 with 662 views | Herbivore |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:52 - Nov 30 by kizaitfc |
I dont think anyone is saying we have been amazing,
Here just seems to be 2 extremes with our fanbase, its amazing or its sack the manager.
We used to be patient with managers and that worked, if the last few years have taught us anything it should be the grass isnt always greener.
Cook has proven track record, maybe I am blindly optimistic that he will recreate his performance at prior clubs here, but lets be honest it is far from awful at the moment so lets at least give him the season before we judge his performance. |
Give him the season and potentially let yet another year in the third division pass us by. Things aren't awful but they are poor. We're midtable and in a rather poor run of form at a time when people assured us all that we'd be getting a lot better. It's not close to good enough. If he can't pick up a few wins before Christmas I struggle to see a case for giving him the rest of the season.
And you say being patient has worked, we gave Lambert, Jewell, and Keane longer than any of them merited and it's done us no favours. The only time we've acted quickly was with Hurst. [Post edited 30 Nov 2021 15:58]
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 16:11 - Nov 30 with 632 views | Garv |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:47 - Nov 30 by Herbivore |
No, I just disagree that we've been this amazing, entertaining powerhouse of the third division that, despite our awesome creativity and incredible football, are sat squarely in midtable. I've managed to see just shy of half our games this season, including our three big wins, and we've been pretty turgid as often as we've been decent. And actually we aren't anywhere near as creative as our fans make out.
You say that Toto being poor on the ball isn't a system issue and that's true, likewise moments of brilliance like Celina's goal on Sunday have very little to do Cook's system either. It was a punt upfield that Celina turned into something. I'd argue many of our goals this season have owed more to individual moments of quality than to any clear style or patterns of play. |
We're no powerhouse, I'd agree. Nor would I expect us to be after three and a half months.
The original point was that the quality of football has improved since last season. It not being where we want it to be is a different argument really. | |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 16:12 - Nov 30 with 628 views | Sawtrich |
To answer the OP, who would I get in? I have no idea, I don't watch a lot of football apart from Ipswich and have no idea who would be available. There's loads of behind the scenes stuff going on at every club that the fans don't get to see or hear about and we can only judge on the team's performance.
I hope I'm wrong about him and results and performances show a big improvement.
COYB |  | | |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 16:45 - Nov 30 with 597 views | homer_123 |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 14:59 - Nov 30 by kizaitfc |
So you think if we sack Cook and bring in a new manager before January he wont sign players?
Managers can only do so much, it is the players on the pitch that make things happen.
We are too weak in certain areas, I think to make PC system work he needs two attacking fullbacks, he doesnt seem to be able to trust KVY and JD and Clements havent been good enough going forwards |
Care to address my questions around how new players address the issues we see week in and week out?
I've said on here before that any incoming manager would like be very happy with this squad.
As an aside, you are talking about 2 position, both wide attacking full backs. How will these new players address us switching off, not being able to adapt to in game changes by our opponents, our work off the ball? |  |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:00 - Nov 30 with 574 views | kizaitfc |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 16:45 - Nov 30 by homer_123 |
Care to address my questions around how new players address the issues we see week in and week out?
I've said on here before that any incoming manager would like be very happy with this squad.
As an aside, you are talking about 2 position, both wide attacking full backs. How will these new players address us switching off, not being able to adapt to in game changes by our opponents, our work off the ball? |
I disagree with your analysis of what is wrong with the team.
0-0 to Oxford, 0-2 Sunderland, 0-2 Rotherham were not down to us switching off nor was it our work off the ball.
Our attacking threat has been the issue recently, in terms of chances created we are one of the worst in the division. Early part of the season we were clinical and scoring goals that has dried up. For me the issue particularly in this system is the wide areas and the relationship between wingers and the full backs. I watched JD on Sunday closely and on too many occasions he was too slow to overlap, and because Cook likes his wingers to cut this left us very sparse on the wings.
Yes we have of course switched off and conceded goals during the season and that is partly down to management absolutely, but players have there own part to play in that.
Your assumption that bringing in a new manager will change the problems both you and I highlight is very optimistic. | |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:09 - Nov 30 with 562 views | HighgateBlue |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:42 - Nov 30 by lowhouseblue |
and actually, to be fair, he doesn't seem to be any worse than 4 out of our most recent 5 managers, so we should really count our blessings. |
The stats would say different, even if you ignore the fact he's had loads more money to spend and is in a lower division than some of those managers. |  | | |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:11 - Nov 30 with 561 views | BlueBadger |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 15:00 - Nov 30 by kizaitfc |
Comparing the performances with Lamberts is laughable.
As for last season, Cook ruffled feathers because he saw what we saw, inept players not good enough for this club.
Cook ended up playing different players and different systems trying to work out who was up to it. |
He now has a squad of better players, who are performing worse than that bunch of sad sacks. |  |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:16 - Nov 30 with 545 views | BlueBadger |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 14:56 - Nov 30 by kizaitfc |
Why do we have any right to be above 11th?
Some fans seem to think just because we are Ipswich Town that League 1 is beneath us.
Yes we spent some money in the summer but no teams get that sort of recruitment right first time, some players come in and will be here for a long time (I hope). Others will be duds, I personally thought the signings of Harper, Edwards and Piggot were some of the best transfer we have seen for years, only one of those has turned out to be good enough to start regularly, and even that is questionable. One of the best exciting signing was Barry from Villa who has turned out to be nowhere near good enough. Most thought Aluko was our worst signing some even argued we shouldn't have signed him but he has been a great addition. Who would have thought one of our top players would be Donacien!
There is no exact formula to this, it is going to take time, Sunderland have been playing around with their squad for 3 or 4 years now, and you'd still argue haven't got it right (based on our match). I would stress that we need to be patient and if we start seeing a decline then yes I would worry. Lets see what the new year brings, |
Never mind that, why are some of our fans(notably the ones who HATED finishing midtable a division higher) so keen on accepting the New Mediocrity and making excuses for failed and failing managers? | |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:17 - Nov 30 with 544 views | HighgateBlue |
You seem to imply that there will come a time when we must panic. I respectfully disagree.
We're drastically underperforming compared with our budget. Even ignoring the massive injection of funds from our new owners, our club has the third highest average attendance in the division with just over 19,500, nearly 4000 higher than the 4th highest. Only 7 teams have more than 9,500.
We need a manager who is capable of allowing us to (at least) punch our weight. If the change is not made early enough, the chance of reaching the playoffs will be entirely lost. I suggest that point is extremely near. We now need pretty much top 2 form to reach the playoffs. Cook is so far off that, both with his players and with someone else's players.
Most of us consider the new regime to be good at recruitment. I would have faith in them to implement a successful recruitment process in replacing Cook. | | | |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:19 - Nov 30 with 546 views | Keaneish |
If i were employed by a company to change that company's fortunes and i laid out a plan in line with a long term contract but was sacked 8-months in despite not failing on any performance review, i'd be a little mythed as would anyone on here.
Yet, there's a few on here who are demanding just that like stroppy teens. It's beyond pathetic. |  |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:22 - Nov 30 with 533 views | KrakenBlue |
I'd love to see Cook turn this around and get us firing properly but looking at the December fixtures of the top 6 & us and it's worrying.
We've got a tough run whilst the teams in the top 6 have much nicer month. If we don't take 3 points from each of the Wigan, Sunderland and Wycombe games then we're really going to be out of touch come Jan, new singings or not.
We've shot ourselves in he foot losing points to smaller teams earlier in the season and we're now going to suffer for it. | | | |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:22 - Nov 30 with 535 views | BlueBadger |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:19 - Nov 30 by Keaneish |
If i were employed by a company to change that company's fortunes and i laid out a plan in line with a long term contract but was sacked 8-months in despite not failing on any performance review, i'd be a little mythed as would anyone on here.
Yet, there's a few on here who are demanding just that like stroppy teens. It's beyond pathetic. |
If however, I was handed a huge budget to do that and there was no improvement at all(and indeed if things went backwards) after 8 months in I could expect to be on notice, at very least. | |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:24 - Nov 30 with 532 views | happybeingblue |
If you disagree with the cook out brigade they call you a happy clapper,says a lot about the mentality of most of them! |  | | |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:28 - Nov 30 with 525 views | BlueBadger |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:24 - Nov 30 by happybeingblue |
If you disagree with the cook out brigade they call you a happy clapper,says a lot about the mentality of most of them! |
Personally, I don't understand the mentality that's happy to accept a third season of mid-table third division football, but there you go. | |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:28 - Nov 30 with 522 views | kizaitfc |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:16 - Nov 30 by BlueBadger |
Never mind that, why are some of our fans(notably the ones who HATED finishing midtable a division higher) so keen on accepting the New Mediocrity and making excuses for failed and failing managers? |
No one hated finishing mid table, people hated boring football, going to games happy to take a point.
We now have a manager who is well now for his exciting teams and attacking football.
Has he got it spot on now, absolutely not, should we give him a little more time to work with his squad - absolutely!
The exact same fans that thought the team we had when we got relegated was going to walk league 1 think just because we have spent relatively big and brought in some big names that we will should be doing that now. Football doesnt work like that, certain players suit certain systems and Cook is finding out more about his players every week.
I expect more changes will come in January, and if we still dont improve at that point then I'd start to worry | |
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| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:29 - Nov 30 with 520 views | Herbivore |
| I'm not understanding the Cook out malarky on 17:19 - Nov 30 by Keaneish |
If i were employed by a company to change that company's fortunes and i laid out a plan in line with a long term contract but was sacked 8-months in despite not failing on any performance review, i'd be a little mythed as would anyone on here.
Yet, there's a few on here who are demanding just that like stroppy teens. It's beyond pathetic. |
Not failing on any performance review, except for a review of actual performances and results. I know you've gone in hard in saying that Cook has got everything right since he's been here, which is a laughably bad take, but your refusal to see that he's underperforming (and would acknowledge as such himself) is tragicomic. [Post edited 30 Nov 2021 17:32]
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