| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit 17:29 - Dec 3 with 3506 views | Mullet |
There couldn’t have been more goodwill, more hope or more expectation that the bad actors in the club had been cleansed and this shiny new American juggernaut of a club was off to run over Div 3. I actually think apathy not toxicity is the main problem.
Quite rightly, Cook has not suffered the degradation or abuse much greater managers have, there’s a worrying acceptance about everything now isn’t there?
Is losing to a kids team (which we’ve done twice this season) something to worry about? Are they even lower than non league? For me, it’s no big deal but I understand those who wanted a Wembley trip.
It’s the idea of patience as some virtue belonging to those most blind to how bad we’ve performed with two squads and no sense the gamble has paid off that baffles me. As if constantly lowering expectations and building up excuses insulates them and Cook from the fact this is another week where we are left wondering if not when.
I just hope tomorrow we allow Barrow to be a punching bag for all the frustrations, but after we did that to Doncaster…. Something has to change surely? |  |
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| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 08:52 - Dec 4 with 1090 views | jeera |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 08:26 - Dec 4 by Churchman |
The drinks cabinet always had a dusty bottle of Harvey’s Bristol Cream, Dry Martini, Stones Ginger Wine, Advocaat (for my grandma) and one of those measly half bottles of Bells. It was a meagre drinks cupboard, the contents so grisly that after the first try I didn't bother with it again.
It smelt of musty 1960s furniture, dust and crusty alcohol from the tops of the bottles. |
Perfect description. |  |
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| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 08:52 - Dec 4 with 1091 views | patrickswell |
As understandable as it is, the slide back into apathy is really distressing to see. If it transmits to the players, then the rest of the season threatens to be a total non-event and I could see a change being made purely to refresh interest among supporters.
I’ve throttled back on a lot of my criticism of Cook because I remembered feeling when the takeover happened that a realistic target was promotion back to the Championship within 2 years, so am trying to give that a chance, but given the level of Cook’s performance since he’s been here, I’m struggling to get enthused. To listen to him talk in press conferences is to wonder what on earth he says to players on the training ground/dressing room. No wonder there’s no consistency in performance. |  | | |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 08:55 - Dec 4 with 1072 views | Plums |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 22:31 - Dec 3 by ghostofescobar |
A lot of the noise on here has been, at least close, to being OTT. The owners made it crystal clear from the very beginning that they would very much like promotion this season, but if it doesn’t happen, they are in it for the long run. I think the owners (but unfortunately not enough fans) could see the almost terminal damage that Evans caused to this club. The club was rotten to the core, with parts being run at a semi professional standard. Personally, I wasn’t hugely hopeful that one transfer window would sort out all the ills crippling the club, many of which seep through to the matches. To be clear, I am not happy with where we are, but I am hopeful for the future. Under Evans there was no future. |
All of that is perfectly true. However, whilst the owners did make it crystal clear that they would like prmotion, there is no doubt whatsoever that they expected us to challenge for it. We aren’t and understandably people are asking questions.
It’s not Cook in or Cook out for most but WTF? |  |
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| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 10:15 - Dec 4 with 1022 views | oldbeardy |
Not an original thought I know but it's the lack of adaptability with what we mostly all seem to agree is a strong squad that is hard to understand - we seem to keep trying exactly the same approach and tactics in the hope the results will be different next time....there's a well-worn cliche that sums up why that is a puzzling way to behave |  | | |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 11:14 - Dec 4 with 977 views | bluejacko |
I seem to remember one of the owners saying”God help Div1 because we won’t”! If that’s not expecting success then what is? Did he mean now or in a little while or 2/3 years. | | | |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 11:32 - Dec 4 with 968 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 18:33 - Dec 3 by Mullet |
You'll have to ask the owners. You'll have to examine the "done it elsewhere" line that is getting a good airing of late.
You don't retain someone with Cook's record, give him so much backing and money, and free rein in the market to not expect promotion. Where is this "OTT criticism" exactly? It seems that there's very little toy throwing until people suggest this hasn't been good enough, and continues not to be. |
OTT is people constantly using their own lofty expectations to suggest where we are now is not acceptable and Cook should go/always has 3-4 games to save his job. People still moaning about last season. People not giving Cook any leeway despite improvements since then.
We’ve been in decline for most of the past 20 years. And now we want to be a promotion side immediately after a root and branch clean out of the squad and the off-field management?
Here’s an idea: quit the posturing and moaning as if any of us have the definitive and simple answer and then you can join the rest of the fans who also want better and are more than aware of issues in the team and the need for more consistency. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 11:42]
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| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:01 - Dec 4 with 933 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 11:32 - Dec 4 by Darth_Koont |
OTT is people constantly using their own lofty expectations to suggest where we are now is not acceptable and Cook should go/always has 3-4 games to save his job. People still moaning about last season. People not giving Cook any leeway despite improvements since then.
We’ve been in decline for most of the past 20 years. And now we want to be a promotion side immediately after a root and branch clean out of the squad and the off-field management?
Here’s an idea: quit the posturing and moaning as if any of us have the definitive and simple answer and then you can join the rest of the fans who also want better and are more than aware of issues in the team and the need for more consistency. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 11:42]
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I always assume that as fans we want the club to succeed, by definition that means we also want to Manager, of the moment, to make it happen.
The problem I have is that consistently Paul Cook’s influence at key points of a match is just inadequate.we have not been behind in any away league time at halftime but have gone onto win too many games.
His positive contribution, when it matters, just isn’t good enough when it matters.
We have positive, forward looking, ownership. We have a squad the envy of almost every other manager in the league. Paul Cook is beginning to look the weakest link.
Call me a drama queen, if you must, but that is only a distraction. |  |
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| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:03 - Dec 4 with 929 views | chrismakin |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 11:14 - Dec 4 by bluejacko |
I seem to remember one of the owners saying”God help Div1 because we won’t”! If that’s not expecting success then what is? Did he mean now or in a little while or 2/3 years. |
God help league 1
At some point we might scare you lol. |  |
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| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:36 - Dec 4 with 892 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:01 - Dec 4 by Pinewoodblue |
I always assume that as fans we want the club to succeed, by definition that means we also want to Manager, of the moment, to make it happen.
The problem I have is that consistently Paul Cook’s influence at key points of a match is just inadequate.we have not been behind in any away league time at halftime but have gone onto win too many games.
His positive contribution, when it matters, just isn’t good enough when it matters.
We have positive, forward looking, ownership. We have a squad the envy of almost every other manager in the league. Paul Cook is beginning to look the weakest link.
Call me a drama queen, if you must, but that is only a distraction. |
I’d say the players’ influence at key points has been the main issue surely? We’ve made a lot of costly individual errors this season but it’s not down to one player or otherwise bad players. New team, uncertainty, a lack of confidence when it’s most critical? But hard to see how Cook and the team stop that without a good run that in itself is put off by the next mistake.
Sure, Cook has made mistakes on his own or should have done something else in retrospect but I’m reminded of Mick’s quote that managers will make wrong decision, it’s a question of making fewer wrong decisions than right ones.
The fact remains that we’ve got a talented side with a higher ceiling than anything we’ve had relative to the division since Royle arguably. But not yet good enough/strong enough to impose ourselves more consistently and scrap our way to results if needed.
If Cook doesn’t keep improving us on that score (I’d argue that we’re a much better side overall since the early part of the season but we’ve still got to be better) then he’ll go. Does anyone actually disagree with that and think he deserves more time regardless of what happens? | |
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| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:37 - Dec 4 with 885 views | Funge |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 11:32 - Dec 4 by Darth_Koont |
OTT is people constantly using their own lofty expectations to suggest where we are now is not acceptable and Cook should go/always has 3-4 games to save his job. People still moaning about last season. People not giving Cook any leeway despite improvements since then.
We’ve been in decline for most of the past 20 years. And now we want to be a promotion side immediately after a root and branch clean out of the squad and the off-field management?
Here’s an idea: quit the posturing and moaning as if any of us have the definitive and simple answer and then you can join the rest of the fans who also want better and are more than aware of issues in the team and the need for more consistency. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 11:42]
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Good god, I disagree with almost every part of that.
'Lofty expectations' - we are as low now, as at almost any time in the previous 70 (!!!) years.
We have a squad of players here, many of whom should clearly be playing in a division above - Celina, Morsy, Chaplin, Bonne, Walton and Coulson.
In addition, we have a number of players who are firmly established, solid, effective players at this level - Fraser, Pigott, Burgess and Evans.
Then a number of players who came here with tremendous potential- Edwards, Harper and Hladky.
Tom Carroll would start for 75% of the other teams in this league; he doesn't even make the bench here.
All of the above will be on silly wages for this level; paid by us as we want to be one of the best in the league.
And yet, here we are in 11th, astonishingly inconsistent, wedded to our 4-2-3-1 formation (and don't the rest of the league know it; Paul Warne in particular), with a support base that has endured absolute b0llocks over the past 15 years.
This idea that a 'clean slate' gives the incumbent management a complete free pass this season is, in light of the money spent on this team, absurd.
Cook has had free reign to shape this squad as he deems fit - from recollection, Sonny Bradley and Matt Crooks were the only two major targets we missed out on - and we are miles - absolutely miles - away from where we should be. This squad is nuts for this level.
He deserves scrutiny and criticism of his methods here, as they clearly aren't working. He may well be a nice guy, but firing out criticism at the support base - which, by the way, is remarkable for Division 3 - suggests that he knows he is struggling.
I think, like Hurst, he's a total lemon.
He is not the right manager for ITFC. I'd love to be proved wrong etc etc, but he's been here 9 months, and we've had one excellent result (Wycombe) and one good result (Pompey) in that entire period.
It's nowhere near good enough. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 12:41]
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| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:46 - Dec 4 with 860 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:37 - Dec 4 by Funge |
Good god, I disagree with almost every part of that.
'Lofty expectations' - we are as low now, as at almost any time in the previous 70 (!!!) years.
We have a squad of players here, many of whom should clearly be playing in a division above - Celina, Morsy, Chaplin, Bonne, Walton and Coulson.
In addition, we have a number of players who are firmly established, solid, effective players at this level - Fraser, Pigott, Burgess and Evans.
Then a number of players who came here with tremendous potential- Edwards, Harper and Hladky.
Tom Carroll would start for 75% of the other teams in this league; he doesn't even make the bench here.
All of the above will be on silly wages for this level; paid by us as we want to be one of the best in the league.
And yet, here we are in 11th, astonishingly inconsistent, wedded to our 4-2-3-1 formation (and don't the rest of the league know it; Paul Warne in particular), with a support base that has endured absolute b0llocks over the past 15 years.
This idea that a 'clean slate' gives the incumbent management a complete free pass this season is, in light of the money spent on this team, absurd.
Cook has had free reign to shape this squad as he deems fit - from recollection, Sonny Bradley and Matt Crooks were the only two major targets we missed out on - and we are miles - absolutely miles - away from where we should be. This squad is nuts for this level.
He deserves scrutiny and criticism of his methods here, as they clearly aren't working. He may well be a nice guy, but firing out criticism at the support base - which, by the way, is remarkable for Division 3 - suggests that he knows he is struggling.
I think, like Hurst, he's a total lemon.
He is not the right manager for ITFC. I'd love to be proved wrong etc etc, but he's been here 9 months, and we've had one excellent result (Wycombe) and one good result (Pompey) in that entire period.
It's nowhere near good enough. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 12:41]
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Who is giving him or the players a “total free pass” this season!?
Jeez. | |
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| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:56 - Dec 4 with 839 views | Funge |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:46 - Dec 4 by Darth_Koont |
Who is giving him or the players a “total free pass” this season!?
Jeez. |
You fully imply it within the first paragraph of your OP! Three excuses, right there, for our pitiful underperformance...
'Lofty expectations...' - fully justified, see post above.
'...moaning about last season...' - rightly so, it was a pathetic capitulation; with seemingly no lessons learnt in preparation for this season. He had a 'free pass', if you will; now we appear to be giving him another one.
'People not giving Cook any leeway despite improvements since then...' - he doesn't deserve any leeway, and the improvements are fleeting at best.
This squad should be challenging for automatic promotion; we're not. There now appears to have been a paradigm shift from August - 'we should be going up automatically' - to now - 'well, this was always going to be a long-term project'
Fck it, if that's the case, let's just ensure we don't get relegated this season, give Cook another berserk transfer budget over the summer, and have this conversation again next Winter. | | | |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 13:22 - Dec 4 with 806 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:56 - Dec 4 by Funge |
You fully imply it within the first paragraph of your OP! Three excuses, right there, for our pitiful underperformance...
'Lofty expectations...' - fully justified, see post above.
'...moaning about last season...' - rightly so, it was a pathetic capitulation; with seemingly no lessons learnt in preparation for this season. He had a 'free pass', if you will; now we appear to be giving him another one.
'People not giving Cook any leeway despite improvements since then...' - he doesn't deserve any leeway, and the improvements are fleeting at best.
This squad should be challenging for automatic promotion; we're not. There now appears to have been a paradigm shift from August - 'we should be going up automatically' - to now - 'well, this was always going to be a long-term project'
Fck it, if that's the case, let's just ensure we don't get relegated this season, give Cook another berserk transfer budget over the summer, and have this conversation again next Winter. |
You’re just being silly now.
Nowhere have I said we should be happy with where we are or that we don’t need to get better. I’ve even underlined that in this thread. | |
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| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 17:43 - Dec 4 with 724 views | Mullet |
| Bit rum on here and across the fan base innit on 12:37 - Dec 4 by Funge |
Good god, I disagree with almost every part of that.
'Lofty expectations' - we are as low now, as at almost any time in the previous 70 (!!!) years.
We have a squad of players here, many of whom should clearly be playing in a division above - Celina, Morsy, Chaplin, Bonne, Walton and Coulson.
In addition, we have a number of players who are firmly established, solid, effective players at this level - Fraser, Pigott, Burgess and Evans.
Then a number of players who came here with tremendous potential- Edwards, Harper and Hladky.
Tom Carroll would start for 75% of the other teams in this league; he doesn't even make the bench here.
All of the above will be on silly wages for this level; paid by us as we want to be one of the best in the league.
And yet, here we are in 11th, astonishingly inconsistent, wedded to our 4-2-3-1 formation (and don't the rest of the league know it; Paul Warne in particular), with a support base that has endured absolute b0llocks over the past 15 years.
This idea that a 'clean slate' gives the incumbent management a complete free pass this season is, in light of the money spent on this team, absurd.
Cook has had free reign to shape this squad as he deems fit - from recollection, Sonny Bradley and Matt Crooks were the only two major targets we missed out on - and we are miles - absolutely miles - away from where we should be. This squad is nuts for this level.
He deserves scrutiny and criticism of his methods here, as they clearly aren't working. He may well be a nice guy, but firing out criticism at the support base - which, by the way, is remarkable for Division 3 - suggests that he knows he is struggling.
I think, like Hurst, he's a total lemon.
He is not the right manager for ITFC. I'd love to be proved wrong etc etc, but he's been here 9 months, and we've had one excellent result (Wycombe) and one good result (Pompey) in that entire period.
It's nowhere near good enough. [Post edited 4 Dec 2021 12:41]
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And after today……. Rum eh buh? | |
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