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For the cretins defending him, claiming that he is not a treacherous self serving arshole, then explain his nonsense about Nato and the EU being responsible for Russia attacking Ukraine.
Ukraine is a sovereign state and should be free to do as it pleases, with regard to who it aligns with. Was that not what the Russians told Farage to say ?
Note how the righties are defending Putin. Trump, Fox News and Farage jumping now their paymaster has cracked the whip.
This latter day William Joyce told us Russia would not attack the Ukraine. Nato is not the EU, but it does not stop this traitor from speaking as if they were..
Farages sort were interned during WW2, and the French gave them and their kind short shrift after the war, as we did with Joyce, and Italy did with Mussolini.
I’ll treat your post with the contempt it deserves.
Perhaps you should update your avatar to that Spectator Brexit butterfly image again?
Or spread disinformation about race protests in the USA again and call them Middle Class White Boys?
You were taken for a fool and then amplified that foolishness. We all saw it and burying it away with your many skeletons of your post history (WHAT AUSTERITY?!) is going to be an ongoing context that you are regularly reminded of.
Part of the issue is the platform given to people like Farage in our mainstream media, so we get to continually experience his vile views. I can’t remember the last time I saw Corbyn or Abbott or any of those other people/groups on MSM. Their position is no better of course, but they have less reach and (presumably) less influence as a result.
Indeed, I’ve never understood the amount of airtime BBC gave Farage, despite his extreme views.
You voted for Brexit, were and endless advocate on here for Russian policy/disinformation and voted for a party that allowed itself to be corrupt by Russian money for the last decade.
There were a few in here who wouldn’t hear a word against Putin. And he voted Brexit as well? #mug
More of a general comment on this thread, but what’s with the silly conflation of Corbyn and others with Farage?
It’s just lazy and ignorant. Farage may blame NATO for raising the stakes over the years because it’s his mate Putin. Of course, Farage would likely be all for NATO and ourselves developing our sphere of influence in the Middle East and throwing our weight around like Putin is in the Ukraine.
Corbin and others have been pacifist anti-imperialists and against our foreign “interventions” for decades. That includes NATO posturing. There’s nothing remotely pro-Putin in that (he’s the antithesis of what they want in the world).
But I’ve already seen dangerous examples where people like Zarah Sultana MP are now being called “Putin’s wh0re” etc.
How about we get a bit of f@cking sense and perspective, please.
And that includes not excusing this stuff in our name (Iraq) or our allies’ name (Saudi Arabia and the Yemen, Israel with Palestine). It’s not right when we do it either.
Perhaps you should update your avatar to that Spectator Brexit butterfly image again?
Or spread disinformation about race protests in the USA again and call them Middle Class White Boys?
You were taken for a fool and then amplified that foolishness. We all saw it and burying it away with your many skeletons of your post history (WHAT AUSTERITY?!) is going to be an ongoing context that you are regularly reminded of.
OK. I'm going to address this and answer your points. I'm then going to put you on ignore because you do nothing but bring friction to this board and there is enough going on right now without having to fight battles from three years ago.
Regarding your previous post: It's basically a rant of whatbouttery because you were completely unable to address any of the links I provided. So you went for the man. Typical Callis.
Firstly, I've never been endless advocate on here for Russian policy/disinformation. That's a blatant lie. Then again, that's your usual MO.
Yes I voted for Brexit. So did a lot of honest decent socialists. Labour even had leaving the EU in their 1983 manifesto under Foot. Corbyn has spent his whole political life campaigning to leave the EU. Corbyn was no more influenced by Russia on the subject than I was. My position on leaving the EU was formed decades ago. I may have been wrong but they were not formed by Putin.
Oh and your occasional digs that I enable racism; my reasons for leaving the EU had nothing to do with immigration. My reasons were probably more aligned with those of that well known rightie Banksy than those of Farage.
Yes I have voted Tory for most of my life. I didn't in 2019. That was the first time I haven't.
I understand you voted Labour in 2019.That was whilst Labour were under investigation by the EHRC over antisemitism. I recall a more thoughtful poster having genuine concerns voting Labour because of this.
Labour under Corbyn were found guilty by the EHRC of discrimination against Jewish members. Do I believe that you support discrimination against Jewish Labour members? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
You voted Labour when the leader was a man who as chair of the STW coalition stated that "If we have to pick a side over the Crimea then it should be Russia. Do I believe that you supported Putin over the annexation of Crimea? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
You voted Labour when the shadow Home Secretary was Diane Abbott. Diane Abbott, just last week said that Russia was not the aggressor in the Ukraine conflict. Do I believe that you are denying that Russia is the aggressor in the conflict? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
With regards to my view on the race riots of May 2020. From the comfort of my own home I saw the majority of the violence appeared to be coming from “middle class white boys” and that this action was going to make things a lot harder for the black community. I linked several heartbreaking incidents of POC business owners and residents pleading with white people to stop smashing up the neighbourhood in their name. Some time after I had a conversation with Sprucey, who was far closer to what was going in places near his neighbourhood.
As I said to Sprucey, and he graciously accepted my explanation, I was concerned that the black community were suffering badly enough, without “middle class white boys” (poor choice if words) coming into their neighbourhoods, wrecking the place leaving the black community to suffer the consequences, whilst they returned to the comfort of their homes.
My only concern was for the black community. I didn’t once denigrate their movement or their right to react to the racism they suffer however they saw fit. In fact I said 100% the right of victims of racism to react to that racism whoever they wanted. There is nothing in my posting history or actions in real life to suggest I am anything but an opponent of racism.
I would add that in the same thread, J2 said that he hoped antifa got a good kicking. In another thread about the Colston statue, Joe made the same point as I had done. That the majority of the people involved were white and that the people who were going to suffer most from the police reaction were the black community. Funny how you never pull either up for those comments.
And finally, I never said "what austerity" or 'there was no austerity". So more lies.
I said that the austerity introduced by George Osborne was less over 5 years than that introduced by Denis Healy in one year (1976). Healy saved the economy by hitting hard and fast. Osborne's was austerity-lite in comparison and had a longer lasting damaging effect. He should have emulated Healy.
No fck off and chase around someby else. I'm done with you.
OK. I'm going to address this and answer your points. I'm then going to put you on ignore because you do nothing but bring friction to this board and there is enough going on right now without having to fight battles from three years ago.
Regarding your previous post: It's basically a rant of whatbouttery because you were completely unable to address any of the links I provided. So you went for the man. Typical Callis.
Firstly, I've never been endless advocate on here for Russian policy/disinformation. That's a blatant lie. Then again, that's your usual MO.
Yes I voted for Brexit. So did a lot of honest decent socialists. Labour even had leaving the EU in their 1983 manifesto under Foot. Corbyn has spent his whole political life campaigning to leave the EU. Corbyn was no more influenced by Russia on the subject than I was. My position on leaving the EU was formed decades ago. I may have been wrong but they were not formed by Putin.
Oh and your occasional digs that I enable racism; my reasons for leaving the EU had nothing to do with immigration. My reasons were probably more aligned with those of that well known rightie Banksy than those of Farage.
Yes I have voted Tory for most of my life. I didn't in 2019. That was the first time I haven't.
I understand you voted Labour in 2019.That was whilst Labour were under investigation by the EHRC over antisemitism. I recall a more thoughtful poster having genuine concerns voting Labour because of this.
Labour under Corbyn were found guilty by the EHRC of discrimination against Jewish members. Do I believe that you support discrimination against Jewish Labour members? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
You voted Labour when the leader was a man who as chair of the STW coalition stated that "If we have to pick a side over the Crimea then it should be Russia. Do I believe that you supported Putin over the annexation of Crimea? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
You voted Labour when the shadow Home Secretary was Diane Abbott. Diane Abbott, just last week said that Russia was not the aggressor in the Ukraine conflict. Do I believe that you are denying that Russia is the aggressor in the conflict? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
With regards to my view on the race riots of May 2020. From the comfort of my own home I saw the majority of the violence appeared to be coming from “middle class white boys” and that this action was going to make things a lot harder for the black community. I linked several heartbreaking incidents of POC business owners and residents pleading with white people to stop smashing up the neighbourhood in their name. Some time after I had a conversation with Sprucey, who was far closer to what was going in places near his neighbourhood.
As I said to Sprucey, and he graciously accepted my explanation, I was concerned that the black community were suffering badly enough, without “middle class white boys” (poor choice if words) coming into their neighbourhoods, wrecking the place leaving the black community to suffer the consequences, whilst they returned to the comfort of their homes.
My only concern was for the black community. I didn’t once denigrate their movement or their right to react to the racism they suffer however they saw fit. In fact I said 100% the right of victims of racism to react to that racism whoever they wanted. There is nothing in my posting history or actions in real life to suggest I am anything but an opponent of racism.
I would add that in the same thread, J2 said that he hoped antifa got a good kicking. In another thread about the Colston statue, Joe made the same point as I had done. That the majority of the people involved were white and that the people who were going to suffer most from the police reaction were the black community. Funny how you never pull either up for those comments.
And finally, I never said "what austerity" or 'there was no austerity". So more lies.
I said that the austerity introduced by George Osborne was less over 5 years than that introduced by Denis Healy in one year (1976). Healy saved the economy by hitting hard and fast. Osborne's was austerity-lite in comparison and had a longer lasting damaging effect. He should have emulated Healy.
No fck off and chase around someby else. I'm done with you.
OK. I'm going to address this and answer your points. I'm then going to put you on ignore because you do nothing but bring friction to this board and there is enough going on right now without having to fight battles from three years ago.
Regarding your previous post: It's basically a rant of whatbouttery because you were completely unable to address any of the links I provided. So you went for the man. Typical Callis.
Firstly, I've never been endless advocate on here for Russian policy/disinformation. That's a blatant lie. Then again, that's your usual MO.
Yes I voted for Brexit. So did a lot of honest decent socialists. Labour even had leaving the EU in their 1983 manifesto under Foot. Corbyn has spent his whole political life campaigning to leave the EU. Corbyn was no more influenced by Russia on the subject than I was. My position on leaving the EU was formed decades ago. I may have been wrong but they were not formed by Putin.
Oh and your occasional digs that I enable racism; my reasons for leaving the EU had nothing to do with immigration. My reasons were probably more aligned with those of that well known rightie Banksy than those of Farage.
Yes I have voted Tory for most of my life. I didn't in 2019. That was the first time I haven't.
I understand you voted Labour in 2019.That was whilst Labour were under investigation by the EHRC over antisemitism. I recall a more thoughtful poster having genuine concerns voting Labour because of this.
Labour under Corbyn were found guilty by the EHRC of discrimination against Jewish members. Do I believe that you support discrimination against Jewish Labour members? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
You voted Labour when the leader was a man who as chair of the STW coalition stated that "If we have to pick a side over the Crimea then it should be Russia. Do I believe that you supported Putin over the annexation of Crimea? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
You voted Labour when the shadow Home Secretary was Diane Abbott. Diane Abbott, just last week said that Russia was not the aggressor in the Ukraine conflict. Do I believe that you are denying that Russia is the aggressor in the conflict? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
With regards to my view on the race riots of May 2020. From the comfort of my own home I saw the majority of the violence appeared to be coming from “middle class white boys” and that this action was going to make things a lot harder for the black community. I linked several heartbreaking incidents of POC business owners and residents pleading with white people to stop smashing up the neighbourhood in their name. Some time after I had a conversation with Sprucey, who was far closer to what was going in places near his neighbourhood.
As I said to Sprucey, and he graciously accepted my explanation, I was concerned that the black community were suffering badly enough, without “middle class white boys” (poor choice if words) coming into their neighbourhoods, wrecking the place leaving the black community to suffer the consequences, whilst they returned to the comfort of their homes.
My only concern was for the black community. I didn’t once denigrate their movement or their right to react to the racism they suffer however they saw fit. In fact I said 100% the right of victims of racism to react to that racism whoever they wanted. There is nothing in my posting history or actions in real life to suggest I am anything but an opponent of racism.
I would add that in the same thread, J2 said that he hoped antifa got a good kicking. In another thread about the Colston statue, Joe made the same point as I had done. That the majority of the people involved were white and that the people who were going to suffer most from the police reaction were the black community. Funny how you never pull either up for those comments.
And finally, I never said "what austerity" or 'there was no austerity". So more lies.
I said that the austerity introduced by George Osborne was less over 5 years than that introduced by Denis Healy in one year (1976). Healy saved the economy by hitting hard and fast. Osborne's was austerity-lite in comparison and had a longer lasting damaging effect. He should have emulated Healy.
No fck off and chase around someby else. I'm done with you.
[Post edited 27 Feb 2022 15:46]
Is that the same EHRC that are currently under fire for being anti-trans rights and not bothering the Tories with Islamophobia and worse anti-semitism figures? Stop weaponising discrimination.
I stated elsewhere I disagree with Corbyn’s take on Russia, it’s the lazy conflating of issues that aren’t related that bores me.
If you promoted Brexit you are a Russian asset. You pushed the lies of Leave.EU. We saw you do it.
I’m not going on loose links or assumptions. You happy clapped this government all the way til Boris and seem to think your hands are clean. They aren’t.
You moan about dishonest comparisons and assumptions, yet here you are claiming Corbyn and Farage are the same arse on different cheeks.
You moan about playing the man and not the ball but I’ve been victim of you doing that to the point of you crying to Phil and getting me banned.
Your act is more transparent than the fact a large chunk of this government you cheered on most of the last 12 years are kompromat.
I don’t care what Spruce thinks. Your comments were ignorant. Spruce is not a collective think tank. I also think you are taking liberties of what another poster believes and are speaking in their absense.
I never saw Joe or J2’s comments you mention to my memory. I don’t read or spend that much time here.
One day Phil will free all posts circa 2012-2018 and we can all laugh at your denial of things I literally saw you post. Austerity denial included.
Is that the same EHRC that are currently under fire for being anti-trans rights and not bothering the Tories with Islamophobia and worse anti-semitism figures? Stop weaponising discrimination.
I stated elsewhere I disagree with Corbyn’s take on Russia, it’s the lazy conflating of issues that aren’t related that bores me.
If you promoted Brexit you are a Russian asset. You pushed the lies of Leave.EU. We saw you do it.
I’m not going on loose links or assumptions. You happy clapped this government all the way til Boris and seem to think your hands are clean. They aren’t.
You moan about dishonest comparisons and assumptions, yet here you are claiming Corbyn and Farage are the same arse on different cheeks.
You moan about playing the man and not the ball but I’ve been victim of you doing that to the point of you crying to Phil and getting me banned.
Your act is more transparent than the fact a large chunk of this government you cheered on most of the last 12 years are kompromat.
I don’t care what Spruce thinks. Your comments were ignorant. Spruce is not a collective think tank. I also think you are taking liberties of what another poster believes and are speaking in their absense.
I never saw Joe or J2’s comments you mention to my memory. I don’t read or spend that much time here.
One day Phil will free all posts circa 2012-2018 and we can all laugh at your denial of things I literally saw you post. Austerity denial included.
[Post edited 27 Feb 2022 17:05]
i like the way "you bring friction to the board " is thrown about at you , typical m.o. there.
forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows
Is that the same EHRC that are currently under fire for being anti-trans rights and not bothering the Tories with Islamophobia and worse anti-semitism figures? Stop weaponising discrimination.
I stated elsewhere I disagree with Corbyn’s take on Russia, it’s the lazy conflating of issues that aren’t related that bores me.
If you promoted Brexit you are a Russian asset. You pushed the lies of Leave.EU. We saw you do it.
I’m not going on loose links or assumptions. You happy clapped this government all the way til Boris and seem to think your hands are clean. They aren’t.
You moan about dishonest comparisons and assumptions, yet here you are claiming Corbyn and Farage are the same arse on different cheeks.
You moan about playing the man and not the ball but I’ve been victim of you doing that to the point of you crying to Phil and getting me banned.
Your act is more transparent than the fact a large chunk of this government you cheered on most of the last 12 years are kompromat.
I don’t care what Spruce thinks. Your comments were ignorant. Spruce is not a collective think tank. I also think you are taking liberties of what another poster believes and are speaking in their absense.
I never saw Joe or J2’s comments you mention to my memory. I don’t read or spend that much time here.
One day Phil will free all posts circa 2012-2018 and we can all laugh at your denial of things I literally saw you post. Austerity denial included.
[Post edited 27 Feb 2022 17:05]
While not getting in to all the rest this is just a bit stoopid.
Callis, in my opinion, and I'll probably get shouted at or something, generally has some decent points to make but, like Harry, whose views I also have sympathy with, gets carried away on a sea of self-righteousness.
Usually starts off from the right place with well-meaning intentions but then proceeds into something else quite different.
If 'they' took the time to write down their thoughts on Office, or whatever they use, and sleep on it overnight and then edit it all a bit, there would be lots of positive material to consider.
It's not a lack of of validity, it's just more the lack of self-control.
For the record, politically I lean towards the beliefs of both of them and feel they both waste potential opportunities.
Callis, in my opinion, and I'll probably get shouted at or something, generally has some decent points to make but, like Harry, whose views I also have sympathy with, gets carried away on a sea of self-righteousness.
Usually starts off from the right place with well-meaning intentions but then proceeds into something else quite different.
If 'they' took the time to write down their thoughts on Office, or whatever they use, and sleep on it overnight and then edit it all a bit, there would be lots of positive material to consider.
It's not a lack of of validity, it's just more the lack of self-control.
For the record, politically I lean towards the beliefs of both of them and feel they both waste potential opportunities.
I don’t think that is fair, Callis debates people and whilst we probably disagree on a fair bit I think he is fair generally - Harry just has a go at anyone and everyone who tries to debate him, blames ‘righties’ for everything even when people being called “righties” are miles to the left of me and doesn’t engage in what people say
Even this thread is having a go at people for defending Farage when I haven’t seen a single person doing so on here - it’s all straw men and arguments in his own head
Callis, in my opinion, and I'll probably get shouted at or something, generally has some decent points to make but, like Harry, whose views I also have sympathy with, gets carried away on a sea of self-righteousness.
Usually starts off from the right place with well-meaning intentions but then proceeds into something else quite different.
If 'they' took the time to write down their thoughts on Office, or whatever they use, and sleep on it overnight and then edit it all a bit, there would be lots of positive material to consider.
It's not a lack of of validity, it's just more the lack of self-control.
For the record, politically I lean towards the beliefs of both of them and feel they both waste potential opportunities.
I only have to look at the up and down arrows on the two posts to conclude I’m probably on the correct side of the fence.
The pile ons just aren’t the same anymore. My post history hasn’t aged like milk so *shrugs*
I don’t think that is fair, Callis debates people and whilst we probably disagree on a fair bit I think he is fair generally - Harry just has a go at anyone and everyone who tries to debate him, blames ‘righties’ for everything even when people being called “righties” are miles to the left of me and doesn’t engage in what people say
Even this thread is having a go at people for defending Farage when I haven’t seen a single person doing so on here - it’s all straw men and arguments in his own head
And there was me thinking I was being, at least in part, complimentary.
OK. I'm going to address this and answer your points. I'm then going to put you on ignore because you do nothing but bring friction to this board and there is enough going on right now without having to fight battles from three years ago.
Regarding your previous post: It's basically a rant of whatbouttery because you were completely unable to address any of the links I provided. So you went for the man. Typical Callis.
Firstly, I've never been endless advocate on here for Russian policy/disinformation. That's a blatant lie. Then again, that's your usual MO.
Yes I voted for Brexit. So did a lot of honest decent socialists. Labour even had leaving the EU in their 1983 manifesto under Foot. Corbyn has spent his whole political life campaigning to leave the EU. Corbyn was no more influenced by Russia on the subject than I was. My position on leaving the EU was formed decades ago. I may have been wrong but they were not formed by Putin.
Oh and your occasional digs that I enable racism; my reasons for leaving the EU had nothing to do with immigration. My reasons were probably more aligned with those of that well known rightie Banksy than those of Farage.
Yes I have voted Tory for most of my life. I didn't in 2019. That was the first time I haven't.
I understand you voted Labour in 2019.That was whilst Labour were under investigation by the EHRC over antisemitism. I recall a more thoughtful poster having genuine concerns voting Labour because of this.
Labour under Corbyn were found guilty by the EHRC of discrimination against Jewish members. Do I believe that you support discrimination against Jewish Labour members? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
You voted Labour when the leader was a man who as chair of the STW coalition stated that "If we have to pick a side over the Crimea then it should be Russia. Do I believe that you supported Putin over the annexation of Crimea? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
You voted Labour when the shadow Home Secretary was Diane Abbott. Diane Abbott, just last week said that Russia was not the aggressor in the Ukraine conflict. Do I believe that you are denying that Russia is the aggressor in the conflict? No I don't. Because I don't debate like a 5 year old.
With regards to my view on the race riots of May 2020. From the comfort of my own home I saw the majority of the violence appeared to be coming from “middle class white boys” and that this action was going to make things a lot harder for the black community. I linked several heartbreaking incidents of POC business owners and residents pleading with white people to stop smashing up the neighbourhood in their name. Some time after I had a conversation with Sprucey, who was far closer to what was going in places near his neighbourhood.
As I said to Sprucey, and he graciously accepted my explanation, I was concerned that the black community were suffering badly enough, without “middle class white boys” (poor choice if words) coming into their neighbourhoods, wrecking the place leaving the black community to suffer the consequences, whilst they returned to the comfort of their homes.
My only concern was for the black community. I didn’t once denigrate their movement or their right to react to the racism they suffer however they saw fit. In fact I said 100% the right of victims of racism to react to that racism whoever they wanted. There is nothing in my posting history or actions in real life to suggest I am anything but an opponent of racism.
I would add that in the same thread, J2 said that he hoped antifa got a good kicking. In another thread about the Colston statue, Joe made the same point as I had done. That the majority of the people involved were white and that the people who were going to suffer most from the police reaction were the black community. Funny how you never pull either up for those comments.
And finally, I never said "what austerity" or 'there was no austerity". So more lies.
I said that the austerity introduced by George Osborne was less over 5 years than that introduced by Denis Healy in one year (1976). Healy saved the economy by hitting hard and fast. Osborne's was austerity-lite in comparison and had a longer lasting damaging effect. He should have emulated Healy.
No fck off and chase around someby else. I'm done with you.
[Post edited 27 Feb 2022 15:46]
Just on one point Glassers, and I'm only bringing up as I think it's relevant to the current situation.
A few years ago now, when Ukraine started their move towards the EU, CIL and yourself seemed very against it. I seem to vaguely recall that because part of Maidan there were legitimately some proper Nazis (a very small minority) involved you did somewhat disparage the whole thing. I'm wondering whether you regret that now?
I did want to look up what specifically was said in those threads as I only recall the sentiments but unfortunately they are lost to time.
Just on one point Glassers, and I'm only bringing up as I think it's relevant to the current situation.
A few years ago now, when Ukraine started their move towards the EU, CIL and yourself seemed very against it. I seem to vaguely recall that because part of Maidan there were legitimately some proper Nazis (a very small minority) involved you did somewhat disparage the whole thing. I'm wondering whether you regret that now?
I did want to look up what specifically was said in those threads as I only recall the sentiments but unfortunately they are lost to time.
Tbh Dan I honestly can’t remember. It’s unlikely that I was on the same page as CIL who has accused me of being a Russiaphobe.
As you know, I voted for Brexit and wasn’t a fan of stuff like an EU army and beloved that the EU had moved well past its original idea of being a trading block and into being a European version of the USA. With individuals losing their sovereignty.
It’s entirely up to Ukraine whether they join the EU. It’s their choice. Did I believe that the EU should go punting for business at the time. Probably not.
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