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"He's gone now Dollers, let it go." Just getting that in before others do. Rather misses the point though. A fantastic job was done on Corbyn. All we can hope is a few people learn from it and keep an open mind on the establishment's narrative in future.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 13:12 - Mar 12 with 1290 views
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 12:22 - Mar 12 by positivity
we know you hate the tories, we know you hate labour. be positive for once and big up someone relevant then
where's the up-and-coming hero of the 'left' who's going to make a difference? alex sobel's very good, but being an excellent constituency mp doesn't always make for good leadership material.
you need policies and vision AND someone who can sell it to the public. who's it going to be?
If Andy Burnham were to throw his hat into the ring, I reckon there'd be a good chance of him winning both a Labour leadership contest & the next GE. Someone who we can all? (well mostly) support.
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 13:20 - Mar 12 by Ryorry
If Andy Burnham were to throw his hat into the ring, I reckon there'd be a good chance of him winning both a Labour leadership contest & the next GE. Someone who we can all? (well mostly) support.
With apols to the good people of Manchester :)
Possibly. I certainly like him and what he generally stands for.
The question is if the Mandelson and Blair-inspired ghouls at the top of the party machine would ever allow that slide back to progressive policies. Unfortunately, I think not.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 13:27 - Mar 12 with 1242 views
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 13:24 - Mar 12 by Darth_Koont
Possibly. I certainly like him and what he generally stands for.
The question is if the Mandelson and Blair-inspired ghouls at the top of the party machine would ever allow that slide back to progressive policies. Unfortunately, I think not.
course they would. they want a winner, burnham's a good shout, don't now if khan's reach goes beyond london.
it's a shame that every single one of the names we've mentioned are male, caroline lucas is all i can think of on the left
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 13:03 - Mar 12 by Darth_Koont
I think you’re over-egging Lewis’s criticisms of Corbin or how he’s disliked on the left. He’s been wise to stay out of the factional stuff considering how that has gone for the left and how morally and politically compromised he would be joining with the right even if it advanced him personally.
But a faction-less, broad church and bigger picture anti-Tory alliance is definitely what is needed to a) re-energise politics and the younger generation and minorities and b) actually stand a chance of winning on real policy merit.
Re: Scotland, I think England’s struggles with identity, for themselves and within the world, are entirely unsolvable by anyone else than the English. The vast majority of whom are equally powerless and victims themselves. At some stage, if nothing changes, Scotland will have to move on for its own sake and the sake of its citizens.
you know what the 'left' is like, his perception as people's front of judea counts against him for some.
i agree on scotland from their pov. i'd be sorely tempted to move up if it happened
however as a big picture:- a progressive alliance in charge of all of the uk's wealth is better than one in charge of scotland's, and letting the right have a free reign in the rest of the uk
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 13:41 - Mar 11 by GlasgowBlue
Who are these ‘many people’ who fell for the line that the jezziah was a ‘Putin fan’?
What people did point out is that Jezza never condemns the aggressor outright (in this case Putin) without also making excuses that the west/USA/UK/Zionists share equal responsibility for his aggression.
A lot of Corbyn’s historical objections to Putin are not criticisms of his regime, antics or wars, but proxy criticisms of Blair and the West through the prism of the Oligarchs and their donations to the Tories or Blair's dealings with Putin.
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 12:15 - Mar 13 by GlasgowBlue
[Post edited 13 Mar 2022 12:19]
Spurious and specious in equal measure.
There’s much more a case for Blair, Cameron and Johnson to be pro-Putin apologists if you take the evidence as a whole rather than cherry-picking accusations.
The bottom line is that you can be critical of NATO’s current form and especially the US and the UK’s destabilising effect on the world AS WELL AS anti-Putin and Russia’s attempts at empire building and bullying for influence.
In fact, any right-minded and decent person should be able to see that we need to be better ourselves and what Putin does isn’t a justification either.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 16:04 - Mar 13 with 962 views
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 15:31 - Mar 13 by Darth_Koont
Spurious and specious in equal measure.
There’s much more a case for Blair, Cameron and Johnson to be pro-Putin apologists if you take the evidence as a whole rather than cherry-picking accusations.
The bottom line is that you can be critical of NATO’s current form and especially the US and the UK’s destabilising effect on the world AS WELL AS anti-Putin and Russia’s attempts at empire building and bullying for influence.
In fact, any right-minded and decent person should be able to see that we need to be better ourselves and what Putin does isn’t a justification either.
Darth I’m a leftie, joining many Stop the War events in the past, and like Corbyn
BUT, there is something wrong with the far left’s attitude to Russia and Putin, and the ‘NATO expansionism’ line wears thin in the context of history and the danger that is Putin
Monbiot has it bang on this article that is essential reading:
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 15:31 - Mar 13 by Darth_Koont
Spurious and specious in equal measure.
There’s much more a case for Blair, Cameron and Johnson to be pro-Putin apologists if you take the evidence as a whole rather than cherry-picking accusations.
The bottom line is that you can be critical of NATO’s current form and especially the US and the UK’s destabilising effect on the world AS WELL AS anti-Putin and Russia’s attempts at empire building and bullying for influence.
In fact, any right-minded and decent person should be able to see that we need to be better ourselves and what Putin does isn’t a justification either.
we can be better, but there's absolutely no justification for failing to condemn putin and assad's war crimes and chemical attacks.
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 16:04 - Mar 13 by unstableblue
Darth I’m a leftie, joining many Stop the War events in the past, and like Corbyn
BUT, there is something wrong with the far left’s attitude to Russia and Putin, and the ‘NATO expansionism’ line wears thin in the context of history and the danger that is Putin
Monbiot has it bang on this article that is essential reading:
I think Monbiot’s wrong here. And this is the misrepresentation (unwitting rather than malicious in people like Monbiot’s case) of Stop The War and other pacifist organisations like CND in the past.
No-one serious or reputable thinks Corbyn or Stop The War is pro-war as long as Putin’s doing it. There is condemnation of the invasion. But the ultimate point of a domestic anti-war movement is not to highlight the enemy’s behaviour but turn the microscope on ourselves. Because even now, even after Iraq in particular and still supporting the oppression of the Palestinian and Yemeni, we look for justification for our actions from our enemies rather than just being and doing better through raising our own standards.
In that sense, calling out the authoritarian Putin and his imperialist tendencies is all pretty academic anyway from the UK but tends to see people here talk immediately about retaliation and escalation.
If you’re a pacifist, war is almost never the solution and us being set up to wage war overseas as we’ve done for the past 20-odd years isn’t that enlightened or desirable.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 17:06 - Mar 13 with 898 views
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 16:27 - Mar 13 by positivity
we can be better, but there's absolutely no justification for failing to condemn putin and assad's war crimes and chemical attacks.
Agreed.
One of the issues though with Syria is the information war and propaganda on both sides. Making distinct accusations about who has done what is a dicey affair given how awful Russian propaganda is but also how terribly we’ve been lied to in the past by our own leaders.
Personally, I believe that the chemical attacks happened. But it doesn’t mean I think we should be fighting another proxy war and escalating in Syria which is also what happened.
Stop The War is about stopping fighting, not cementing the justification for more death and destruction.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 17:14 - Mar 13 with 873 views
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 17:06 - Mar 13 by Darth_Koont
Agreed.
One of the issues though with Syria is the information war and propaganda on both sides. Making distinct accusations about who has done what is a dicey affair given how awful Russian propaganda is but also how terribly we’ve been lied to in the past by our own leaders.
Personally, I believe that the chemical attacks happened. But it doesn’t mean I think we should be fighting another proxy war and escalating in Syria which is also what happened.
Stop The War is about stopping fighting, not cementing the justification for more death and destruction.
"stopping fighting" sometimes means exposing innocent civilians to more harm by giving dictators a free reign. that shouldn't sit right with any right-thinking person
outside of your comical ali/lavrov types, no-one believes chemical attacks didn't happen in syria or salisbury, the 'left' need to condemn these war crimes
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 15:31 - Mar 13 by Darth_Koont
Spurious and specious in equal measure.
There’s much more a case for Blair, Cameron and Johnson to be pro-Putin apologists if you take the evidence as a whole rather than cherry-picking accusations.
The bottom line is that you can be critical of NATO’s current form and especially the US and the UK’s destabilising effect on the world AS WELL AS anti-Putin and Russia’s attempts at empire building and bullying for influence.
In fact, any right-minded and decent person should be able to see that we need to be better ourselves and what Putin does isn’t a justification either.
Hmmmm. Who to listen to?
Peter Tatchell, long time human and LGBT rights campaigner and Oz Katerji, brave freelance journalist currently reporting from Kyiv? Or Darth Koont, TWTD poster and frustrated advertising exec who has defended everyone from Corbyn to Chris WIlliamson long after normal decent people have cut them loose?
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 17:14 - Mar 13 by positivity
"stopping fighting" sometimes means exposing innocent civilians to more harm by giving dictators a free reign. that shouldn't sit right with any right-thinking person
outside of your comical ali/lavrov types, no-one believes chemical attacks didn't happen in syria or salisbury, the 'left' need to condemn these war crimes
Hmmmm. I’m more than a little sceptical about all these “humanitarian wars” we’re justifying nowadays. What about a commitment to UN peacekeeping troops to protect civilians? Rather than the forces that are really going in to defend/extend a sphere of influence if we’re being honest.
There was certainly condemnation of Russia for the Novichok attack as the link in the OP with Corbyn’s own words shows. The Douma chemical attack happened and I think that’s down to Assad. But I can also see why it isn’t implausible to consider that this could also have been engineered to encourage escalation. That in itself is the problem with the low standards that we ourselves have started to live by.
Given our role in recent world events and how we helped create many of the tensions before that, we should welcome those who want us to look at ourselves first and foremost. And I think if we actually were a healthy, decent democracy and force for good in the world that scrutiny wouldn’t be an issue.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 18:03 - Mar 13 with 825 views
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 17:19 - Mar 13 by GlasgowBlue
Hmmmm. Who to listen to?
Peter Tatchell, long time human and LGBT rights campaigner and Oz Katerji, brave freelance journalist currently reporting from Kyiv? Or Darth Koont, TWTD poster and frustrated advertising exec who has defended everyone from Corbyn to Chris WIlliamson long after normal decent people have cut them loose?
Bit of a toughie!
[Post edited 13 Mar 2022 17:46]
Listen to who you want.
I have no problem disagreeing with Oz Katerji or Peter Tatchell over certain of their views (I think Katerji’s an Andy Ngo of the Middle East as it happens), just like you have no problem disagreeing with long-time peace and justice campaigner Jeremy Corbyn on absolutely everything.
And not just disagreeing but making up what he says whenever you can too.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 18:07 - Mar 13 with 807 views
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 16:04 - Mar 13 by unstableblue
Darth I’m a leftie, joining many Stop the War events in the past, and like Corbyn
BUT, there is something wrong with the far left’s attitude to Russia and Putin, and the ‘NATO expansionism’ line wears thin in the context of history and the danger that is Putin
Monbiot has it bang on this article that is essential reading:
Which “far left” is this? I’d say I’m far left and I’ve been anti Russia as a military/government state for years. Hell, I’ve been pointing out Tory donations and weird Brexit/Russia links too. As has Corbyn.
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 17:14 - Mar 13 by positivity
"stopping fighting" sometimes means exposing innocent civilians to more harm by giving dictators a free reign. that shouldn't sit right with any right-thinking person
outside of your comical ali/lavrov types, no-one believes chemical attacks didn't happen in syria or salisbury, the 'left' need to condemn these war crimes
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 16:59 - Mar 13 by Darth_Koont
I think Monbiot’s wrong here. And this is the misrepresentation (unwitting rather than malicious in people like Monbiot’s case) of Stop The War and other pacifist organisations like CND in the past.
No-one serious or reputable thinks Corbyn or Stop The War is pro-war as long as Putin’s doing it. There is condemnation of the invasion. But the ultimate point of a domestic anti-war movement is not to highlight the enemy’s behaviour but turn the microscope on ourselves. Because even now, even after Iraq in particular and still supporting the oppression of the Palestinian and Yemeni, we look for justification for our actions from our enemies rather than just being and doing better through raising our own standards.
In that sense, calling out the authoritarian Putin and his imperialist tendencies is all pretty academic anyway from the UK but tends to see people here talk immediately about retaliation and escalation.
If you’re a pacifist, war is almost never the solution and us being set up to wage war overseas as we’ve done for the past 20-odd years isn’t that enlightened or desirable.
I’m afraid Monbiot is spot on Darth.
I couldn’t make the recent Stop the War meeting in Holborn where Corbyn and others spoke.
But other attendees and tweets from the event confirms that - apart from Corbyn - there was only limited condemnation of Putin/Russia and it became a NATO expansionism bashing event.
They were ranting that Putin would never invade along with right wing commentators the day before he invaded.
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 18:07 - Mar 13 by monytowbray
Which “far left” is this? I’d say I’m far left and I’ve been anti Russia as a military/government state for years. Hell, I’ve been pointing out Tory donations and weird Brexit/Russia links too. As has Corbyn.
The article clearly points out which elements of the far left, you need to read it.
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 18:07 - Mar 13 by monytowbray
Which “far left” is this? I’d say I’m far left and I’ve been anti Russia as a military/government state for years. Hell, I’ve been pointing out Tory donations and weird Brexit/Russia links too. As has Corbyn.
the morning star/stop the war amongst others, monbiot's article explains where they've fallen short.
obviously not the entire far left, eg tatchell & the syrian socialists he quotes
Many of you fell for the 'Corbyn being a Putin fan' lie on 18:08 - Mar 13 by unstableblue
I’m afraid Monbiot is spot on Darth.
I couldn’t make the recent Stop the War meeting in Holborn where Corbyn and others spoke.
But other attendees and tweets from the event confirms that - apart from Corbyn - there was only limited condemnation of Putin/Russia and it became a NATO expansionism bashing event.
They were ranting that Putin would never invade along with right wing commentators the day before he invaded.
Again Monbiot has it spot on.
I think that is a misreading and misrepresentation still but hey ho.
Let’s just hope that the Russian anti-war movement isn’t being denounced and dismissed as NATO/Western Imperialist apologists.
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