| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? 13:07 - May 13 with 4416 views | TractorJack |
https://www.itfc.co.uk/club/jobs/
Have a look at the Academy Analyst role here and the renumeration section.
I know this is a university placement year but they won't just be sitting around watching. Considering the levels of investment now, why isn't this a paid role? |  | | |  |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:14 - May 13 with 3422 views | footers |
Not sure what the pay is like under the new ownership but I remember some pretty important positions advertised under Evans that were ridiculously low paid.
Don't like these kind of unpaid graduate/placement schemes either. If a job's being done then there must be some sort of benefit other than experience and a name on your CV. It only benefits those who can afford not to be paid. |  |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:22 - May 13 with 3370 views | MattinLondon |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:14 - May 13 by footers |
Not sure what the pay is like under the new ownership but I remember some pretty important positions advertised under Evans that were ridiculously low paid.
Don't like these kind of unpaid graduate/placement schemes either. If a job's being done then there must be some sort of benefit other than experience and a name on your CV. It only benefits those who can afford not to be paid. |
Totally agree. The only people who have the luxury of being an ‘intern’ (or whatever other guise they come in) tend only to benefit youngsters from comfortable backgrounds. Less well-off students tend to have to work part time to help fund their studies. |  | | |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:27 - May 13 with 3324 views | Illinoisblue |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:22 - May 13 by MattinLondon |
Totally agree. The only people who have the luxury of being an ‘intern’ (or whatever other guise they come in) tend only to benefit youngsters from comfortable backgrounds. Less well-off students tend to have to work part time to help fund their studies. |
When you think of the obscene money paid to agents every year you’d hope the club would offer more than some training kit and sandwiches for the role. Sadly, I’m sure most clubs opt for the cheap way for these kinds of positions. |  |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:27 - May 13 with 3324 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:14 - May 13 by footers |
Not sure what the pay is like under the new ownership but I remember some pretty important positions advertised under Evans that were ridiculously low paid.
Don't like these kind of unpaid graduate/placement schemes either. If a job's being done then there must be some sort of benefit other than experience and a name on your CV. It only benefits those who can afford not to be paid. |
It's instead of being sat in lectures, where you wouldn't get paid either, and is excellent experience and good for the CV.
I did similar in a PR firm while at uni and just got expenses (travel + food).
If you start demanding a wage then these companies will, in many cases, withdraw the opportunity. This role will likely need some hand-holding, so not a massive benefit to the 'employer'. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:28 - May 13 with 3306 views | Keno |
I misread one of those jobs, thought it was grab-a-gran |  |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:29 - May 13 with 3304 views | GeoffSentence |
Do you still have to pay tuition fees to university when on a placement? A few years back someone I know was complaining about that, his son was on sandwich year placement for his course and he said he still had to pay tuition fees, though the university wasn't providing any tuition. |  |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:30 - May 13 with 3291 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:22 - May 13 by MattinLondon |
Totally agree. The only people who have the luxury of being an ‘intern’ (or whatever other guise they come in) tend only to benefit youngsters from comfortable backgrounds. Less well-off students tend to have to work part time to help fund their studies. |
I worked part time, and also did a placement like this. It was instead of lectures really, so didn't really affect me money-wise (I'd obviously have been delighted to be paid for it but can see why they don't). | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:30 - May 13 with 3290 views | hoppy |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:28 - May 13 by Keno |
I misread one of those jobs, thought it was grab-a-gran |
Do you need to let go now then? |  |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:32 - May 13 with 3275 views | Rozz |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:22 - May 13 by MattinLondon |
Totally agree. The only people who have the luxury of being an ‘intern’ (or whatever other guise they come in) tend only to benefit youngsters from comfortable backgrounds. Less well-off students tend to have to work part time to help fund their studies. |
This. I'm from a design background and most of the industry is in London. I was lucky to have contributions towards train fare from Suffolk to make my internship viable, without which I'd have cleared my savings. It's a huge disadvantage to those without the support or from out of town.
New laws came in to force paid internships just after I finished. It sounds like the unpaid positions these days have to give (teach) more than they take:
-The intern is aware that they will be uncompensated.
-Training is comparable to training received at an educational institution.
-The internship is tied to the intern’s current educational program (e.g., with academic credit).
-The internship accommodates that intern’s academic calendar.
-The internship is limited to the period during which the intern receives beneficial learning.
-The intern’s work complements (not replaces) existing employees’ work, while still providing beneficial learning.
-It is understood that the internship does not provide entitlement to a job at its conclusion. |  | | |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:34 - May 13 with 3250 views | MattinLondon |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:30 - May 13 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I worked part time, and also did a placement like this. It was instead of lectures really, so didn't really affect me money-wise (I'd obviously have been delighted to be paid for it but can see why they don't). |
I take your point. But, I still don’t think it’s right that someone doing a job (ok with hand holding) still doesn’t get paid for it. Just think it’s wrong. | | | |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:36 - May 13 with 3238 views | footers |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:27 - May 13 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's instead of being sat in lectures, where you wouldn't get paid either, and is excellent experience and good for the CV.
I did similar in a PR firm while at uni and just got expenses (travel + food).
If you start demanding a wage then these companies will, in many cases, withdraw the opportunity. This role will likely need some hand-holding, so not a massive benefit to the 'employer'. |
Of course it will need hand-holding to some extent as it's a placement. But the requirements include a basic coaching badge so it's still a skilled job they're expected to perform.
The other thing is that a driving licence is desirable when petrol prices are through the roof. To only be offered a kit and a daily meal while working unsociable hours during evenings and weekends while student debt is now around 90k seems to me a bit stingy when we're talking about a business backed by a multi-billion-dollar pension fund. | |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:37 - May 13 with 3228 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:34 - May 13 by MattinLondon |
I take your point. But, I still don’t think it’s right that someone doing a job (ok with hand holding) still doesn’t get paid for it. Just think it’s wrong. |
Depends how much of a 'job' they're doing I guess. If they're doing work that genuinely benefits the company then yeah, they should get paid for it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:43 - May 13 with 3184 views | footers |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:37 - May 13 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Depends how much of a 'job' they're doing I guess. If they're doing work that genuinely benefits the company then yeah, they should get paid for it. |
I'm not sure they're doing it out of kindness. Why would they? There must be some benefit to ITFC to have a junior academy analyst. | |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:44 - May 13 with 3184 views | clive_baker |
Although I get the point that's being made, it is perfectly common to have unpaid roles. It's a 2 way street and this is a role that will probably see the post holder offering little value initially, and it's a great opportunity for someone to get work experience. If someone local is studying in this area it's a perfect to get some experience on the CV which, should really make them stand out when they go in to the job market later on.
Plus the players are senior staff are generally pretty good, I'm sure there will be a whip round at Christmas etc and a few other perks. |  |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:50 - May 13 with 3131 views | MattinLondon |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:44 - May 13 by clive_baker |
Although I get the point that's being made, it is perfectly common to have unpaid roles. It's a 2 way street and this is a role that will probably see the post holder offering little value initially, and it's a great opportunity for someone to get work experience. If someone local is studying in this area it's a perfect to get some experience on the CV which, should really make them stand out when they go in to the job market later on.
Plus the players are senior staff are generally pretty good, I'm sure there will be a whip round at Christmas etc and a few other perks. |
It may well be common but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s right. | | | |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:54 - May 13 with 3109 views | Steve_M |
Yes, it's wrong. Internships are fulfilling a role for the employer as much as benefitting the individual and should be paid as such.
It really is obscene in the context of our expenditure at the moment. |  |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:57 - May 13 with 3077 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:36 - May 13 by footers |
Of course it will need hand-holding to some extent as it's a placement. But the requirements include a basic coaching badge so it's still a skilled job they're expected to perform.
The other thing is that a driving licence is desirable when petrol prices are through the roof. To only be offered a kit and a daily meal while working unsociable hours during evenings and weekends while student debt is now around 90k seems to me a bit stingy when we're talking about a business backed by a multi-billion-dollar pension fund. |
I didn't see anything about unsociable hours but yeah, I'd agree, as them's the hours when students do their part time jobs. Travel expenses should certainly be in there. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 14:29 - May 13 with 2937 views | earlsgreenblue |
Can I just add, nobody is standing behind potential candidates beating them into submitting for the role, if you want paying get a “proper” job, start at the bottom & work your way up by hard graft, hasn’t hurt the majority……….it’s called life.
However, if you do want the experience & what goes with it, don’t moan, please! |  | | |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 14:39 - May 13 with 2894 views | longtimefan |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 13:29 - May 13 by GeoffSentence |
Do you still have to pay tuition fees to university when on a placement? A few years back someone I know was complaining about that, his son was on sandwich year placement for his course and he said he still had to pay tuition fees, though the university wasn't providing any tuition. |
My son is on a year in industry currently and he does indeed still have to pay tuition fees. They are significantly reduced though, something like £2k instead of £9.5k for a normal university year. | | | |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 14:40 - May 13 with 2886 views | footers |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 14:29 - May 13 by earlsgreenblue |
Can I just add, nobody is standing behind potential candidates beating them into submitting for the role, if you want paying get a “proper” job, start at the bottom & work your way up by hard graft, hasn’t hurt the majority……….it’s called life.
However, if you do want the experience & what goes with it, don’t moan, please! |
It's chicken and egg.
You can't get a job because you have no experience but you can't get experience unless you're willing to effectively pay for it.
It's not a great message for students coming from poorer or more disadvantages backgrounds. Everyone deserves a little help on their way. These kids are probably only 20/21 and just starting out. A modest salary or their fuel covered is hardly asking for the earth. | |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 14:41 - May 13 with 2871 views | jayessess |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 14:29 - May 13 by earlsgreenblue |
Can I just add, nobody is standing behind potential candidates beating them into submitting for the role, if you want paying get a “proper” job, start at the bottom & work your way up by hard graft, hasn’t hurt the majority……….it’s called life.
However, if you do want the experience & what goes with it, don’t moan, please! |
The point about unpaid internships is that they're detrimental to fair competition. If entering an industry is dependent on you being able to contribute free work, then you're excluding people who aren't in a position to do that.
In this case it might well be that in this field an internship is a standard part of the degree track and that ITFC is one club facilitating that bit of the education. Which is fine.
But "you don't have to do it" isn't a catch all defence for all unpaid internships. |  |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 15:16 - May 13 with 2745 views | Sharkey |
What strikes me about it is how long it's for. As a teacher I'd ask what would the student possibly learn in the second four months that they wouldn't have learned in the first? |  | | |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 15:55 - May 13 with 2629 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
There should be some pay, regardless of whether there will be a stampede for the job.
I did a placement year 22 years ago, and was paid £12k.
Not a fortune, but enough to get by on, and it means that the role if viable for everyone if they can afford to house and feed themselves.
Doesnt sit right that some players are on £10k per week, and a student gets given a track suit. |  |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 15:56 - May 13 with 2621 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 14:41 - May 13 by jayessess |
The point about unpaid internships is that they're detrimental to fair competition. If entering an industry is dependent on you being able to contribute free work, then you're excluding people who aren't in a position to do that.
In this case it might well be that in this field an internship is a standard part of the degree track and that ITFC is one club facilitating that bit of the education. Which is fine.
But "you don't have to do it" isn't a catch all defence for all unpaid internships. |
Agreed. | |
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| ITFC job - does this bother anyone else? on 16:55 - May 13 with 2530 views | Veggie |
It’s a University Placement isn’t it? Are these normally paid? |  | | |
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