| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:40 - May 24 with 859 views | DanTheMan |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 10:59 - May 24 by chicoazul |
Do you have much experience in your role with new starters out of Uni or whatever? How have they found it? As compared to your own experience when you were that age. |
We've had people with 1-2 years but not anyone that junior. We don't have the required team sizes to give them the attention they would require.
I would agree it would be very difficult to mentor someone that young but it could be done, it would just require more effort. I think some of the biggest issues is that people treat WFH as the opposite to being in the office. In my team we (for the most part) have a call open all day with us in it, even with cameras off. We're talking for most of the day, even if it's about non-work stuff. There are times you drop off to focus but it's rare.
I think the issue most people have isn't that WFH doesn't work, it's just that they aren't actually doing it right if that makes sense. It's a skill all of its own, and it probably does not work for everyone.
For example my mother said she could never concentrate working from home, whereas I've never had any issue. I'm way more productive WFH than I was in the office, and I'm happier. |  |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:44 - May 24 with 831 views | homer_123 |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 10:53 - May 24 by chicoazul |
So productivity is proven to rise in these environments? I promise I’m not being obtuse I’m genuinely interested. |
Fair question Chico - yes, and in some instance by a substantial amount over a 12 month period. |  |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:44 - May 24 with 831 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:40 - May 24 by DanTheMan |
We've had people with 1-2 years but not anyone that junior. We don't have the required team sizes to give them the attention they would require.
I would agree it would be very difficult to mentor someone that young but it could be done, it would just require more effort. I think some of the biggest issues is that people treat WFH as the opposite to being in the office. In my team we (for the most part) have a call open all day with us in it, even with cameras off. We're talking for most of the day, even if it's about non-work stuff. There are times you drop off to focus but it's rare.
I think the issue most people have isn't that WFH doesn't work, it's just that they aren't actually doing it right if that makes sense. It's a skill all of its own, and it probably does not work for everyone.
For example my mother said she could never concentrate working from home, whereas I've never had any issue. I'm way more productive WFH than I was in the office, and I'm happier. |
Yeah but BigDonnie won’t employ you. |  | | |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:46 - May 24 with 831 views | J2BLUE |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:30 - May 24 by BiGDonnie |
LOL, guessing. |
Well if you have the proof then why can't you make them come in?
If you can prove to them they are less productive then surely they would have no argument? |  |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:48 - May 24 with 820 views | monytowbray |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:38 - May 24 by J2BLUE |
There's this belief among the older generations that just working harder will see all of that sweet profit trickling down to those who deserve it. It's bullsh1t and i'm so pleased our generation realised it and are telling them to go f##k themselves.
Then they bitch and lie to protect their own self interests like that **** Sugar. |
As I furthered my career, got higher up the chain, worked for bigger agencies, gained experience and saw more inner workings of the top of companies I realised it really is largely horsesh1t.
The last 2 jobs I had were working under venture capitalists with no idea how digital works hoovering up digital businesses, giving themselves pointless job titles and then using that pointless title to dictate awful decisions whilst rejecting feedback from the staff working the tools and delivering the services that profit.
Growth at all costs free market capitalism is just a watered down version of Monopolisation with a different mask. It rewards those who already have large bank balances at the expense of skills/experience. I also firmly believe you can’t run a company bigger than a certain size without multiple failures to service/ethics/staff wellbeing, but we only really value companies on their financial stats.
We’re in disaster capitalism now and it will fail, there is no where for it to go. Power is too isolated and steeped into the system, with no tangible long term solutions to the current CoL crisis, let alone previous recessions like 2008 of which massive fallout still lingers. [Post edited 24 May 2022 11:53]
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:48 - May 24 with 824 views | Swansea_Blue |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 10:53 - May 24 by chicoazul |
So productivity is proven to rise in these environments? I promise I’m not being obtuse I’m genuinely interested. |
It has for our place, if that's any help. Last year was our second busiest year of the last 6 in terms of items processed and we had 15% more 'customers' than any other year in the last 6.
Things we've noticed:
- there's been more communication as it's easier to arange (and you don't have to waste time travelling between meetings).
- staff enjoy the lack of the commute, and they tend to start/finish earlier
- email traffic in the evenings has dropped off as people aren't having to catch up in the evenings (emails can be dealt with in that time you would otherwise be spending travelling between meetings or sometimes even in dull meetings). When most of your work iis on email, that's quite a big thing and has resulted in much quicker response times.
The downsides are you lose the office/corridor conversations, so can miss some things that are going on. It's nice (sometimes) to have the social interaction from being in work.
A change of scene from a home office is good too.
Hybrid seems to be the best of both worlds imo. And would also allow companies to cut their floorspace a bit. Although that's obviously a bad thing for the property tycoons who donate to the Tories.
it's a shame it's being culture-warred, as there are benefits allround to a hybrid approach. |  |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:50 - May 24 with 811 views | monytowbray |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:44 - May 24 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Yeah but BigDonnie won’t employ you. |
BigDonnie couldn’t afford me. | |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:53 - May 24 with 815 views | leitrimblue |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 10:59 - May 24 by chicoazul |
Do you have much experience in your role with new starters out of Uni or whatever? How have they found it? As compared to your own experience when you were that age. |
We completely closed our office over a year ago. We now work from home or on site. Wfh I must save about€100 a week just in petrol, coffee and breakfast rolls plus the office rental saving on top of that. We now only really hire students/work experience/new starters when doing on site work. In my day ( 20 odd years ago) I would have started working for a quite large company for my profession. Would have been working on site or sorta hanging around the office with not much to do while waiting for next on site job to start. |  | | |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:58 - May 24 with 807 views | Steve_M |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:30 - May 24 by monytowbray |
If I ran a staffed business I’d have an office that can seat 20% of the entire company and rotate the days in weekly/fortnightly based on teams. Kinda like a weekly scrum in the agile method of working to ensure all are on the same page and any questions/work that needs face to face commitments can be planned in for that day.
Alas I am a one man sole trader working from home at all times in Ipswich, part time, and am making around the same money I made full time in London. I am much happier, have more money staying in my own pocket from reduced commuting and local living needs, get more leisure time back and waste less time too. Even little things like not being so busy/tired to miss my fitness regime or skipping cooking healthy food in favour of eating out have all had a noticeable positive direction change since WFH.
How many of you are currently sat in an office on here because you are killing time? You have to stay at your desk so your boss gets perceived time value out of you. Where’s the initiative to work smart and be more productive in that system? Wouldn’t you rather know if you get 12 hours worth of work done today with the time you waste on here you could do a half day tomorrow? [Post edited 24 May 2022 11:38]
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This point:
"Even little things like not being so busy/tired to miss my fitness regime or skipping cooking healthy food in favour of eating out have all had a noticeable positive direction change since WFH."
also works well for hybrid working, even one or two days of that is better in providing more time-flexibility and that's without much of a commute (and I've done Ipswich - London commuting and know how painful that is). |  |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 12:01 - May 24 with 787 views | giant_stow |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 10:43 - May 24 by chicoazul |
I agree it’s here to stay but how do you do an internship or apprenticeship or an entry level sales role if your managers are all working from home? |
I sort of see what you're saying about junior roles. I'd quite like an apprentice to help with the work load, but have no office to sit them in and can;t afford both an apprentice and an office. I can't ask a school leaver to come work at my house, so it looks like my only option is outsourcing on upwork people-per-hour etc...
Edit: sorry, realise this isn't quite what the chat is about. [Post edited 24 May 2022 12:05]
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 12:16 - May 24 with 768 views | The_Realist_09 |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 10:59 - May 24 by chicoazul |
Do you have much experience in your role with new starters out of Uni or whatever? How have they found it? As compared to your own experience when you were that age. |
A year into my job straight out of uni, wfh 90% of the time and I'm not a fan at all. Struggled to feel part of a team and was frustrating having to ask questions over a message or putting video calls into people's calendars etc. Also don't really feel like I have a connection with my colleagues or the firm I am working for as I've not really been around the offices much.
I think a hybrid system is probably the sweet spot and would have been much better for me personally. Call me old fashioned but it just feels different chatting to someone over a call as opposed to in person. Almost feels sad on a human level to not be around other humans and sat at a desk on your own all day...
I guess circumstances also play a role in this, if you have a young family etc then this adds more variables to your decision. | | | |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 12:22 - May 24 with 751 views | factual_blue |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:25 - May 24 by BiGDonnie |
I've been back in the office full time for ages now.
75% of my team are also. I'll be completely honest, the 25% are harder to manage and generally not as productive. We can't make them come in, as much as we'd like too.
We won't be offering remote working to new candidates unless there's another pandemic. |
I imagine flipping a burger remotely is pretty difficult. |  |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 12:56 - May 24 with 714 views | chicoazul |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:40 - May 24 by DanTheMan |
We've had people with 1-2 years but not anyone that junior. We don't have the required team sizes to give them the attention they would require.
I would agree it would be very difficult to mentor someone that young but it could be done, it would just require more effort. I think some of the biggest issues is that people treat WFH as the opposite to being in the office. In my team we (for the most part) have a call open all day with us in it, even with cameras off. We're talking for most of the day, even if it's about non-work stuff. There are times you drop off to focus but it's rare.
I think the issue most people have isn't that WFH doesn't work, it's just that they aren't actually doing it right if that makes sense. It's a skill all of its own, and it probably does not work for everyone.
For example my mother said she could never concentrate working from home, whereas I've never had any issue. I'm way more productive WFH than I was in the office, and I'm happier. |
Yep makes perfect t sense, thanks for answering. |  |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 12:57 - May 24 with 712 views | chicoazul |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:44 - May 24 by homer_123 |
Fair question Chico - yes, and in some instance by a substantial amount over a 12 month period. |
Interesting to hear thanks hopefully this can have an impact on overall productivity figures. Given the looming enormous recession we will certainly need it. | |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 13:02 - May 24 with 701 views | factual_blue |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:01 - May 24 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
There’s a lot of pushback from executive level as well. I cannot see why, given it can lower the expense base in terms of expensive office space. My gut feeling is it is lack of trust, despite two years of people working from home and turning in more hours than ever.
That said the buoyant job market has forced their hand to accept hybrid (for now at least). |
I suspect that most executives haven't yet realised that most of what they do doesn't matter in any way, shape or form. | |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 13:02 - May 24 with 703 views | Illinoisblue |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 11:48 - May 24 by monytowbray |
As I furthered my career, got higher up the chain, worked for bigger agencies, gained experience and saw more inner workings of the top of companies I realised it really is largely horsesh1t.
The last 2 jobs I had were working under venture capitalists with no idea how digital works hoovering up digital businesses, giving themselves pointless job titles and then using that pointless title to dictate awful decisions whilst rejecting feedback from the staff working the tools and delivering the services that profit.
Growth at all costs free market capitalism is just a watered down version of Monopolisation with a different mask. It rewards those who already have large bank balances at the expense of skills/experience. I also firmly believe you can’t run a company bigger than a certain size without multiple failures to service/ethics/staff wellbeing, but we only really value companies on their financial stats.
We’re in disaster capitalism now and it will fail, there is no where for it to go. Power is too isolated and steeped into the system, with no tangible long term solutions to the current CoL crisis, let alone previous recessions like 2008 of which massive fallout still lingers. [Post edited 24 May 2022 11:53]
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Been exposed to a little bit of that myself. Working for a small family-run business that was doing nicely (data analytics in the healthcare industry) , growing slowly but steadily. Well-run, employees felt they were part of the family. All good. And then after much rumour, the head of the family who was close to retirement age decided reluctantly to sell to a VC firm. Cue four years of mouthy flashy new execs being wheeled in every few months to tell us their grand visions. Rampant expansion despite not having the staff or infrastructure to support it. Gobbling up smaller rival companies with no plan of how to integrate them.
Today, the company no longer exists. Broken down and sold off for parts. |  |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 13:22 - May 24 with 667 views | chicoazul |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 12:16 - May 24 by The_Realist_09 |
A year into my job straight out of uni, wfh 90% of the time and I'm not a fan at all. Struggled to feel part of a team and was frustrating having to ask questions over a message or putting video calls into people's calendars etc. Also don't really feel like I have a connection with my colleagues or the firm I am working for as I've not really been around the offices much.
I think a hybrid system is probably the sweet spot and would have been much better for me personally. Call me old fashioned but it just feels different chatting to someone over a call as opposed to in person. Almost feels sad on a human level to not be around other humans and sat at a desk on your own all day...
I guess circumstances also play a role in this, if you have a young family etc then this adds more variables to your decision. |
Again interesting thanks and good to get an informed counter perspective. I hope things perk up for you soon, you have a long road ahead of you in work! | |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 13:43 - May 24 with 629 views | BlueBadger |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 13:22 - May 24 by chicoazul |
Again interesting thanks and good to get an informed counter perspective. I hope things perk up for you soon, you have a long road ahead of you in work! |
Certainly from where I'm sat, certain things work better in person than they do remotely.
I'm only talking from a teaching and training point of view - a lot of our in-huse mandatory training is now done remotely, which is great for stuff like fire safety, date protection, etc, etc but our deteriorating patient session really struggles on Zoom. There's a lot of slides but it only really works as a session if you use the slides as a jumping-off point to engage with your class. It's a lot harder to do that, I find, via zoom, as it makes eye contact and body language a lot harder to read.
Conversely, a lot o our managers have now gone hybrid working and are finding it a lot more efficient - there's fewer pointless and endless meetings because they're ) rarely all in the building at the same time and b) they REALLY hate using Zoom/Teams and they get more done at home because they're being interrupted by stupid phone calls to their office and people dropping in to 'just have quick chat' about something that could generally be solved by email or googling. [Post edited 24 May 2022 13:50]
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 13:47 - May 24 with 611 views | itfcjoe |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 12:16 - May 24 by The_Realist_09 |
A year into my job straight out of uni, wfh 90% of the time and I'm not a fan at all. Struggled to feel part of a team and was frustrating having to ask questions over a message or putting video calls into people's calendars etc. Also don't really feel like I have a connection with my colleagues or the firm I am working for as I've not really been around the offices much.
I think a hybrid system is probably the sweet spot and would have been much better for me personally. Call me old fashioned but it just feels different chatting to someone over a call as opposed to in person. Almost feels sad on a human level to not be around other humans and sat at a desk on your own all day...
I guess circumstances also play a role in this, if you have a young family etc then this adds more variables to your decision. |
I guess location of offices a big thing as well - where my wife works she was previously branch based, but with WFH from home they have opened up all their previous 'head office/back office' functions.
So she has a new job which she loves and is excelling in, but her office is in Northampton so bar the odd day every few weeks up there there is no ability to hybrid work (and they've got rid of lots of office space as well)
So full WFH does give employers a wider net to attract staff as well, and also allows staff to relocate to areas they may prefer. One of her colleagues has spent 3-4 months spending a few weeks at Air BNBs around the country deciding where him and his partner want to live longer term.
Certain jobs lend themselves to it, but agree re point of how hard it must be as a younger person, and also remember how much fun office life was when younger if a load of similarly aged people in the office, drinks after work etc |  |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 13:47 - May 24 with 611 views | monytowbray |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 13:02 - May 24 by Illinoisblue |
Been exposed to a little bit of that myself. Working for a small family-run business that was doing nicely (data analytics in the healthcare industry) , growing slowly but steadily. Well-run, employees felt they were part of the family. All good. And then after much rumour, the head of the family who was close to retirement age decided reluctantly to sell to a VC firm. Cue four years of mouthy flashy new execs being wheeled in every few months to tell us their grand visions. Rampant expansion despite not having the staff or infrastructure to support it. Gobbling up smaller rival companies with no plan of how to integrate them.
Today, the company no longer exists. Broken down and sold off for parts. |
One agency I worked with in my career is now gone in all but name. Was a successful marketing agency with 50+ staff in a Northern office and another 5-10 in London. Well known and respected business, lot of top industry talent in staff ranks, you'd have been mad to say no to a job there. Got brought by VCs who also purchased any business in any industry where "digital" could appear as a service. Ended up merging that digital marketing agency side with a data solutions company they also purchased, on the grounds it was all data (at face level) and it should be one brand. The digital agency side is now completely dead, huge staff exodus and what remained for talent/clients was hoovered up by two startups by ex staff.
I could probably write a book on toxic behaviours and red flags in a business most people have never even thought about, as this story is a summarised tip of the iceberg from one job.
But the illusion of confident rich men in suits automatically being business geniuses is dying. | |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 13:57 - May 24 with 590 views | hype313 |
I've been home based for 7 years now and as long as you stick to a routine and have self discipline, it's the way forward for certain demographics to thrive under.
Obviously I have two school aged children so it works for me to do pick ups and drop offs, however I do understand that the younger generation might find it quite painful to do, especially if they don't have the space at home to separate the two.
If I was in my 20's I'd prefer to be office based due to the learning and social aspect, these days I'm happier to have the flexibility to be trusted to crack on with my work.
It's nice to be able to meet up socially with the teams centrally every now and then, but I don't miss the weekly post work P up's!
How Warky travels to Brum week in week out is beyond me. |  |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 15:09 - May 24 with 530 views | Illinoisblue |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 13:47 - May 24 by monytowbray |
One agency I worked with in my career is now gone in all but name. Was a successful marketing agency with 50+ staff in a Northern office and another 5-10 in London. Well known and respected business, lot of top industry talent in staff ranks, you'd have been mad to say no to a job there. Got brought by VCs who also purchased any business in any industry where "digital" could appear as a service. Ended up merging that digital marketing agency side with a data solutions company they also purchased, on the grounds it was all data (at face level) and it should be one brand. The digital agency side is now completely dead, huge staff exodus and what remained for talent/clients was hoovered up by two startups by ex staff.
I could probably write a book on toxic behaviours and red flags in a business most people have never even thought about, as this story is a summarised tip of the iceberg from one job.
But the illusion of confident rich men in suits automatically being business geniuses is dying. |
I think and hope your last line is true. Or at least coming true slowly.
My favourite memory of the VC suits and their great ideas was, toward the beginning of the end, probably when they needed to start recouping all the money they’d casually wasted, they decided to can our entire in-house creative team. Sacked overnight, 20+ people. “Who will work with our clients on their marketing materials now?” We asked. “Just outsource it.” Came the reply. Quality, adherence to brand standards… none of that matters, just knock it out cheap. | |
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| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 15:23 - May 24 with 513 views | Steve_M |
| ONS Survey on Hybrid Working on 15:09 - May 24 by Illinoisblue |
I think and hope your last line is true. Or at least coming true slowly.
My favourite memory of the VC suits and their great ideas was, toward the beginning of the end, probably when they needed to start recouping all the money they’d casually wasted, they decided to can our entire in-house creative team. Sacked overnight, 20+ people. “Who will work with our clients on their marketing materials now?” We asked. “Just outsource it.” Came the reply. Quality, adherence to brand standards… none of that matters, just knock it out cheap. |
"I think and hope your last line is true. Or at least coming true slowly."
Very slowly, the ability of senior managers to fall for the bullsh1t of management consultants who work out very quickly how to maximise their income and tell them exactly what they want to hear will be around for a while yet.
Governments are helplessly addicted too, especially those intnet on cutting large numbers of direct employees for political reasons. It's quite clear how that gap will get filled (to the extent that it is). | |
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