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Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 10:30 - May 28 by GlasgowBlue
And we are now all talking about part of the ministerial code being removed that hasn't been removed. So it's probably working.
Edit. This seems a fair summery of the ‘new” ministerial code.
[Post edited 28 May 2022 10:52]
Well some of us are still talking about lying to Parliament and the country, and a lack of integirty, and a lack of moral compass, and a lack of a strategy to deal with the cost of living crisis, and a lack of a coherent strategy to take the country forward after the Brexit vote, and talking the public for stupid AS WELL AS talking about ministerial code changes.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 10:30 - May 28 by GlasgowBlue
And we are now all talking about part of the ministerial code being removed that hasn't been removed. So it's probably working.
Edit. This seems a fair summery of the ‘new” ministerial code.
[Post edited 28 May 2022 10:52]
So us the considered verdict just that that changes are just a bit pointless, rather than corrupt? Or perhaps a bit of both.
It's hard to tell with this government!
And I'm a bit dubious of the 'ply the media with chaos' theory, in that I struggle to see the benefit of an increasing % of the population thinking that he is incompetent or worse.
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 11:15 - May 28 by Dubtractor
So us the considered verdict just that that changes are just a bit pointless, rather than corrupt? Or perhaps a bit of both.
It's hard to tell with this government!
And I'm a bit dubious of the 'ply the media with chaos' theory, in that I struggle to see the benefit of an increasing % of the population thinking that he is incompetent or worse.
It's a bit of window dressing. And the part that everyone is getting themselves worked up over being taken out hasn't been taken out.
I'm just amazed that the media didn't actually read the code before going with the story tbh.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 11:17 - May 28 by GlasgowBlue
It's a bit of window dressing. And the part that everyone is getting themselves worked up over being taken out hasn't been taken out.
I'm just amazed that the media didn't actually read the code before going with the story tbh.
According to the BBC:
"It has long been a convention that MPs should quit government for breaking the Ministerial Code in any way.
But in a new section of the code, the PM has been given the option of ordering a lesser sanction instead."
So the "resign if you break the code" convention HAS been removed but the "resign if you lie to the house" convention remains. They are (were) both conventions, of course, and ultimate judgement continues to rest with the PM - as I said, probably not what Lord Geidt had in mind.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 10:47 - May 28 by Radlett_blue
So just over half of the UK population are "pricks"? A somewhat self-centred & undemocratic view of the country.
But they are f**king idiots who were took for a ride.
Your feelings and/or their feelings I don’t care about. I’d rather people own their mistakes than cry victim because the world won’t play along with their stupidity. It was Russian foreign policy pushed by bad faith actors to profit.
Self centred are the f**king idiots who are too insecure to admit they’ve been duped and double down to drag us further into the depths. And a large chunk of them are so bigots who prop up this government.
Don’t like it? Don’t care. Tough sh1t. Grow up. The BOTH SIDES angle is only enabling them, they cannot be reasoned with.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 12:10 - May 28 by EdwardStone
Not strictly true....
Just the majority of people who voted
Figures are
Leave 17.4 mil
Remain 18.1 mil
UK Population in 2016 65.6 mil
Voter turnout was 33.5 mil, just over 50% of population.
So, to be more accurate.... you should have said "a quarter" rather than half.
Ah yes, that old one when the people who didn't vote are considered to have voted against the majority. Again, if you think that's a valid argument, you need to make voting compulsory as in Australia or give up on democracy.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 12:26 - May 28 by Radlett_blue
Ah yes, that old one when the people who didn't vote are considered to have voted against the majority. Again, if you think that's a valid argument, you need to make voting compulsory as in Australia or give up on democracy.
Not an arguement, just facts. 50% of those who voted, not 50% of population.
One could put forward the idea that those who were eligible to vote, but didn't make the effort are the true numpties in this
The population of any country will always include those who don't hold the franchise for a variety of reasons; too young, criminally insane etc
Interesting point about compulsory voting.... how on Earth does, for example, Australia account for those who died after the Electoral Roll was produced, but before polling day?
People halfway through moving house? People in Intensive Care? The itinerants? Homeless?
So many people lead fractured and chaotic lives, it must be a nightmare to keep track of those with a genuine excuse for not voting as opposed to cba.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 12:26 - May 28 by Radlett_blue
Ah yes, that old one when the people who didn't vote are considered to have voted against the majority. Again, if you think that's a valid argument, you need to make voting compulsory as in Australia or give up on democracy.
Not sure we should give up. Those who don't vote are often cited as being happy with the status quo (I liked some of their earlier stuff but later period Quo were just milking the one good idea they had..... again again again again).
Compulsory voting and PR - it's the way forward for the UK at least.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 10:30 - May 28 by GlasgowBlue
And we are now all talking about part of the ministerial code being removed that hasn't been removed. So it's probably working.
Edit. This seems a fair summery of the ‘new” ministerial code.
[Post edited 28 May 2022 10:52]
It all sounds like that Russian fella who made out that if you can essentially confuse everyone enough of the time they will be happy to hand over control to anyone who pretends to look like they know what is going on!!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
It also has to be remembered that this is not Boris. This is the Conservative Party. They put him in place. hey support and vote through his policies and they (with very few exceptions) keep him in place. This is the Conservatives. Don't let them ditch Boris and say it isn't who they really are near to the next election.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 10:47 - May 28 by Radlett_blue
So just over half of the UK population are "pricks"? A somewhat self-centred & undemocratic view of the country.
I didn't really read it like that. I took the post to mean the people driving the brexit agenda, not the voters. I suppose I should also say that not over half of the UK population voted. It was 51.9% of the 72.2% who voted. A victory for leave yes, but not supported by over half of the population who could have voted at the time.
Edit: I suppose I should also read a whole thread before posting a repeat of what several others have said!
[Post edited 28 May 2022 13:44]
Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.
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Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 14:48 - May 28 with 851 views
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 13:03 - May 28 by You_Bloo_Right
Not sure we should give up. Those who don't vote are often cited as being happy with the status quo (I liked some of their earlier stuff but later period Quo were just milking the one good idea they had..... again again again again).
Compulsory voting and PR - it's the way forward for the UK at least.
I didn’t bother with local last month am wondering if I bother in next general for varied reasons, largely ones based on the fact I never had a democratic choice to join “society” in this form. The issue with voting is the fact an all-or-nothing system with crooked lines in land serve only those who fear a challenge to power. In a way by voting you are maintaining the status quo. It’s a real mindf**k.
Bear in mind I am a politically interested and guided person too, so me not bothering would have been a sad moment for me in my 20s, but I am truly disenfranchised with the whole thing. Same idiots running around in two main parties, slinging muck, lying, being beige. There’s a growing generational movement around Corbyn’s policies and world view, like it or loathe it, and I think Labour is too generationally divided to deliver it. The Neolibs laugh at the choice of UKIP or Tory in America whilst also happy clapping a UK variant here.
But also I am now a disenfranchised voter too, so who wins there? Likely the worst of the worst.
Until we ditch FPTP and have fair elections with an actual fact based press I just don’t see the point. We could at least bring in some kind of democratic rule where higher/lower voter turnout influences the FPTP system’s results, it’d be a start. But then we all know full well if we did it we’d have a society more like what we could have had under Corbyn, and we can’t be proving any of that correct to wake folks up to the fact they’re being conned.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 14:48 - May 28 by monytowbray
I didn’t bother with local last month am wondering if I bother in next general for varied reasons, largely ones based on the fact I never had a democratic choice to join “society” in this form. The issue with voting is the fact an all-or-nothing system with crooked lines in land serve only those who fear a challenge to power. In a way by voting you are maintaining the status quo. It’s a real mindf**k.
Bear in mind I am a politically interested and guided person too, so me not bothering would have been a sad moment for me in my 20s, but I am truly disenfranchised with the whole thing. Same idiots running around in two main parties, slinging muck, lying, being beige. There’s a growing generational movement around Corbyn’s policies and world view, like it or loathe it, and I think Labour is too generationally divided to deliver it. The Neolibs laugh at the choice of UKIP or Tory in America whilst also happy clapping a UK variant here.
But also I am now a disenfranchised voter too, so who wins there? Likely the worst of the worst.
Until we ditch FPTP and have fair elections with an actual fact based press I just don’t see the point. We could at least bring in some kind of democratic rule where higher/lower voter turnout influences the FPTP system’s results, it’d be a start. But then we all know full well if we did it we’d have a society more like what we could have had under Corbyn, and we can’t be proving any of that correct to wake folks up to the fact they’re being conned.
[Post edited 28 May 2022 14:53]
Were I in your position I think I'd opt for spoiling the ballot paper - a small difference between that and not voting perhaps but I do feel that if the 30% (or so) who currently do not vote were to spoil their ballots instead it would make it little harder for the politicians to ignore.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 10:47 - May 28 by Radlett_blue
So just over half of the UK population are "pricks"? A somewhat self-centred & undemocratic view of the country.
Poor rightie, still struggles with basic' sums'
nether 17m nor 14m are 'half of the UK population', they are not even half of those eligible to vote
40 news deals on Day One - nope, only the one so far, with Japan, which left the UK worse off (Aus/NZ have yet to be ratified)
4 million - a week, the number of extra forms needed by UK hauliers
Loss of trade due to brexit, increase in asylum seekers due to brexit, shortage of labour due to brexit might suggest the word pricks is rather an understatement
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Exactly we laughed at the US, and Trump, Cruz et al... on 15:25 - May 28 with 820 views
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 11:27 - May 28 by You_Bloo_Right
According to the BBC:
"It has long been a convention that MPs should quit government for breaking the Ministerial Code in any way.
But in a new section of the code, the PM has been given the option of ordering a lesser sanction instead."
So the "resign if you break the code" convention HAS been removed but the "resign if you lie to the house" convention remains. They are (were) both conventions, of course, and ultimate judgement continues to rest with the PM - as I said, probably not what Lord Geidt had in mind.
Sounds like corrupt, racist, incompetent criminal's equivalent of 'I just sit near them, I don't sit with them'.
[Post edited 28 May 2022 17:42]
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 06:57 - May 28 by GlasgowBlue
I’m confused about this new ministerial code because it’s been reported that the government have rewritten the rules to remove the need to resign. However, I’ve read the new ministerial code and it clearly states in Section 1.3 paragraph c…..
“It is of paramount importance that Ministers give accurate and truthful information to Parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister”
Hasn’t this always been the case and there is no change? Or am reading this incorrectly?
Is this a case of Johnson distracting the country by causing a non row over the ministerial code to divert the debate about his actual wrong doing? His stratergy has always been get loads of muck out there so that it’s watered down.
I’m trying to find an older copy of the ministerial code to compare the two.
[Post edited 28 May 2022 7:12]
"Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister"
I believe this to be true. The PM did offer his resignation to the PM who resoundingly rejected it citing that he was doing a good job and should carry on.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 09:44 - May 28 by GlasgowBlue
I read somewhere, and I can’t find the exact quote, that Johnson has a chaos strategy which basically floods the media with muck and scandal, one after the other, so that we forget what we were supposed to be angry about. Or something like that.
I remember talk about that ages back, but not recently. It seems about right.
You're right on the ministerial code. The requirement to offer your resignation to the PM if you break the code still stands. I'm not sure whether the goal posts have moved on what is now considered a breach.
I suppose it all breaks down though if the one breaking the code is the actual PM and won't budge. It's broadly worked up until recently but now sounds like we need something a bit more binding. Not that there's any change until a change of government (and even then I'd be skeptical any government would be altruistic enough to put in proper checks and measures - our system is too adversarial isn't it, and doesn't encourage that sort of behaviour unfortunately).
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 19:54 - May 28 by Swansea_Blue
I remember talk about that ages back, but not recently. It seems about right.
You're right on the ministerial code. The requirement to offer your resignation to the PM if you break the code still stands. I'm not sure whether the goal posts have moved on what is now considered a breach.
I suppose it all breaks down though if the one breaking the code is the actual PM and won't budge. It's broadly worked up until recently but now sounds like we need something a bit more binding. Not that there's any change until a change of government (and even then I'd be skeptical any government would be altruistic enough to put in proper checks and measures - our system is too adversarial isn't it, and doesn't encourage that sort of behaviour unfortunately).
Tory voter just yesterday said in response to a question about Boris' corruption, "I think it's time we moved on from it".
The Tory party and their supporters will only hold him accountable if they think it might cost them power. The vast majority have no issue with his incompetence, his criminality nor his lying.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 20:03 - May 28 by Nthsuffolkblue
Tory voter just yesterday said in response to a question about Boris' corruption, "I think it's time we moved on from it".
The Tory party and their supporters will only hold him accountable if they think it might cost them power. The vast majority have no issue with his incompetence, his criminality nor his lying.
Thy know it will cost the power. They have no idea who to replace him with.
Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:32 - May 27 by Swansea_Blue
It does seem the covid personal tragedies were needed to cut through and make many people see them for what they are. I don’t think that’ll go away before the next GE either. If you lost a loved one without being allowed to say goodbye, while they had piss-ups to see off a colleague, you’re not going to be forgetting in a couple of years.
Many people didn’t lose loved ones though and don’t give a crap anyway, so I’m not sure what it’ll take to get through to them. Cost of living maybe? It needs that personal impact. Whether enough have turned against them we’ll have to wait and see. I hope so. I’d take any colour of government now as long as it was serious.
My Dad died 1/12/2020,he was in a hospice so fortunately my self and siblings were with him, unfortunately my mum is in a care home wasn’t allowed out to be with him and to say goodbye, they were married 65 years. Two weeks later for his funeral we had to sit our kids down and decide which ones could attend his funeral as only 20 people could be there, again my mum wasn’t allowed. Can’t wait for the next election and the Tory canvasser to turn up on my doorstep.
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