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Still grovel and aspire to the self imposed elite? They really play their role in the archaic British class system and help promote the narrative of trickle down economics. The concept of royalty really is absurd.
Sorry for the random morning musings.
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 17:41 - Jun 3 with 1451 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 17:06 - Jun 3 by itfcjoe
Maybe some people just enjoy being part of big celebrations, and coming together, and being British rather than just being angry and miserable their whole life?
I personally am very happy and content despite having nothing to do with the celebrations. It is possible to question things without being miserable about it. No need to label those who choose not to be involved as being angry or miserable.
[Post edited 3 Jun 2022 17:41]
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 18:33 - Jun 3 with 1369 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 15:13 - Jun 3 by J2BLUE
Have you actually read any of the above? I posted one post taking the piss and then you and Bloom start demanding definitions so i've posted them while making it clear they are not my opinions.
Which part of this don't you get?
Come on J2, I demand that you provide a justification for the categories in the ONS Social Grade Model!!
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 17:32 - Jun 3 by noggin
It actually saddens me to see relatively poor people celebrating such wealth inequality. I don't hold any hatred for her but I do feel the whole class system should be banished to shameful history.
I very much doubt they're celebrating "wealth inequality"! More like they're celebrating a British institution which in recent history has brought us stability.
There's also a clear personal affection amongst the majority of the population both here & in former colonies/the Commonewalth for the current Queen, even amongst anti-monarchists & pro-republicans. See/hear it all the time on social media (incl here) & on broadcast media.
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 16:45 - Jun 3 by Butterbing
How about an elected rather than hereditary head of state with the same functions as we have currently?
Stipulations could involve that they are neutral and apolitical (as the Queen currently is). As the role is largely ceremonial our current political system would remain unchanged.
The suggestion that without a hereditary monarch our country would descend into an autocracy is rather ridiculous.
You still might end up with reprobates because they have "charisma" (blonde hair seems to be a major plus).
What I'd like to try is a system of all those people put up for Queens' Honours by their local communities because they're unsung heroes in some way (maybe volunteers, charity fund raisers, just helping out neighbours etc) being put on a list that the rest of us can vote for. Whoever comes out on top then gets to the hold the post for 1 year only. Annual voting.
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 12:24 - Jun 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
Just saying "I'm not brainwashed" by its very nature isn't necessarily true. Because what you think and therefore say comes from the same brain!
Answer the point: if monarchy had never existed and someone came up with the idea today, would you be in favour? We'll make one person our ruler - give them palaces to live in, all the best food, drink, healthcare, waited on hand and foot, for free - without any qualifications, manifesto etc. Just pure luck.
Therein lies the answer to if you're brainwashed or not. You're obviously going to deny it - no-one wants to think that they're brainwashed. But if you look at what it is objectively, the idea of a monarchy is bonkers.
just image tell your boss that when you retire my child is going to my job and when they retire , one of there children will carry on and so on
forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 20:00 - Jun 3 with 1251 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 15:50 - Jun 3 by Ryorry
By your own definition you're brainwashed then, as you vote in parliamentary elections.
You could argue that at a push. But in reality, we need someone/thing to run/govern us. Voting in parliamentary elections makes sense. There's no sense and very little logic to the monarchy.
I'm not even vehemently anti-monarchy/republican. I just think the whole thing's daft and only acceptable because "that's what we've always done". Which isn't a very good reason for it.
People who put up bunting and deliriously wave their flags without questioning it are brainwashed IMO. Soz.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 20:41 - Jun 3 with 1197 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 20:00 - Jun 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
You could argue that at a push. But in reality, we need someone/thing to run/govern us. Voting in parliamentary elections makes sense. There's no sense and very little logic to the monarchy.
I'm not even vehemently anti-monarchy/republican. I just think the whole thing's daft and only acceptable because "that's what we've always done". Which isn't a very good reason for it.
People who put up bunting and deliriously wave their flags without questioning it are brainwashed IMO. Soz.
You've been given reasons & examples too numerous to count that people respecting & admiring our current Queen doesn't mean they "put up bunting and deliriously wave their flags without questioning it". You refuse to see that, or any positive aspects of the monarchy such as stability, good role model (which we've sadly lacked in our PMs); & you determinedly maintain that anyone disagreeing with your viewpoint is "brainwashed". That makes you arrogant & blinkered IMO.
We don't have a written constitution. That makes change incredibly hard to bring about. Some of us have suggested alternatives. If you don't like them or the status quo, then go out & do something about changing the situation yourself. If you can't or won't, then you can just lay off with your unqualified cod psychology.
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 16:59 - Jun 3 by J2BLUE
Arguably Charles would be the right person at the right time. He might be politically neutral but a weekly call with the PM where he can drum it in about climate change might be useful. Who knows, maybe when he goes there will be the will to change as it's mainly a generational thing now.
He's been talking A1 top-drawer sense about protecting & caring for the environment since the 1960s, way ahead of his time.
Sadly, few listened to him, & I'm not so sure many more would now - his time may have passed, though I always thought he'd make a good king.
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 20:41 - Jun 3 by Ryorry
You've been given reasons & examples too numerous to count that people respecting & admiring our current Queen doesn't mean they "put up bunting and deliriously wave their flags without questioning it". You refuse to see that, or any positive aspects of the monarchy such as stability, good role model (which we've sadly lacked in our PMs); & you determinedly maintain that anyone disagreeing with your viewpoint is "brainwashed". That makes you arrogant & blinkered IMO.
We don't have a written constitution. That makes change incredibly hard to bring about. Some of us have suggested alternatives. If you don't like them or the status quo, then go out & do something about changing the situation yourself. If you can't or won't, then you can just lay off with your unqualified cod psychology.
What has the Queen done that's provided stability? What stability has there even been in this country in years?
Your last point is nonsensical. Just because I can see it for what it is doesn't mean I have to go out and change it or shut up.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 21:34 - Jun 3 with 1121 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 21:20 - Jun 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
What has the Queen done that's provided stability? What stability has there even been in this country in years?
Your last point is nonsensical. Just because I can see it for what it is doesn't mean I have to go out and change it or shut up.
Your last point is nonsensical. You've proved you're incapable of seeing or understanding what I wrote - you only see what you want to.
Just because some of us think the monarchy in the form of the Queen has proved a better role model than any PM, and wouldn't object to changes *if they could provide a better system than the one we have right now* doesn't make us brainwashed. Nor does your arrogant pseudo-psychology make it so.
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 21:34 - Jun 3 by Ryorry
Your last point is nonsensical. You've proved you're incapable of seeing or understanding what I wrote - you only see what you want to.
Just because some of us think the monarchy in the form of the Queen has proved a better role model than any PM, and wouldn't object to changes *if they could provide a better system than the one we have right now* doesn't make us brainwashed. Nor does your arrogant pseudo-psychology make it so.
You've said my last point's nonsensical but haven't explained why.
You've also not answered in what way the Queen's provided stability.
I didn't say anything about her being a better role model than a PM, so you're building a straw man there.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 21:48 - Jun 3 with 1104 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 11:20 - Jun 3 by FromReuserWithLove
Woah!! Not being ‘anti-royal’ just throwing out an observation. Genuine apologies if I’ve offended anyone. Enjoy your celebrations.
Apology accepted... You are far too detached from true working classes, by the sounds of your comments. To give an intelligent, educated opinion on them..... You are just guessing... In some way, trying to elevate yourself, by referring to "the working classes" as some kind of, lesser, 3rd party, that you don't belong to... Very arrogant and misinformed... We get it... You dislike the idea of The Royal Family, and you look down on the working classes.... As far as the Jubilee Celebrations go. No one is holding a gun to anybody's head and forcing them to celebrate anything.. You can either join in, or simply ignore it. But there's no need to belittle anyone who is joining in... Personally, I've just stayed away from it all.. Happy enough, in my own skin. To not bother chucking mud at those that want to enjoy it all.. Put an extra sugar in your tea, you sound bitter....
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 21:51 - Jun 3 with 1090 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 21:48 - Jun 3 by BigCommon
Apology accepted... You are far too detached from true working classes, by the sounds of your comments. To give an intelligent, educated opinion on them..... You are just guessing... In some way, trying to elevate yourself, by referring to "the working classes" as some kind of, lesser, 3rd party, that you don't belong to... Very arrogant and misinformed... We get it... You dislike the idea of The Royal Family, and you look down on the working classes.... As far as the Jubilee Celebrations go. No one is holding a gun to anybody's head and forcing them to celebrate anything.. You can either join in, or simply ignore it. But there's no need to belittle anyone who is joining in... Personally, I've just stayed away from it all.. Happy enough, in my own skin. To not bother chucking mud at those that want to enjoy it all.. Put an extra sugar in your tea, you sound bitter....
wow. tbh you sound anything but happy in your own skin.
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 21:52 - Jun 3 with 1087 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 21:48 - Jun 3 by BigCommon
Apology accepted... You are far too detached from true working classes, by the sounds of your comments. To give an intelligent, educated opinion on them..... You are just guessing... In some way, trying to elevate yourself, by referring to "the working classes" as some kind of, lesser, 3rd party, that you don't belong to... Very arrogant and misinformed... We get it... You dislike the idea of The Royal Family, and you look down on the working classes.... As far as the Jubilee Celebrations go. No one is holding a gun to anybody's head and forcing them to celebrate anything.. You can either join in, or simply ignore it. But there's no need to belittle anyone who is joining in... Personally, I've just stayed away from it all.. Happy enough, in my own skin. To not bother chucking mud at those that want to enjoy it all.. Put an extra sugar in your tea, you sound bitter....
No disrespect but I think you've misread the tone completely.
I read it as the working class 'us' (deliberate generalisation) including himself, looking up to our 'betters'.
In this day and age, seriously, what is it people are afraid of? Is it possible there's an element of society who are simply frightened of change and concerned there might be some extra responsibility placed onto them if things don't stay the same; in that without this imagined safety net they have grown up with, or in some cases wanting to revert back to a fantastical time they remember from childhood books et al?
It's not any more complicated than that. He could have said 'commoners' I suppose for the same effect.
There are people still who won't accept that Diana was a 'commoner' and cannot accept that people are just people and seem to need someone to look up to.
Someone across the road from me right now is setting off fireworks. They don't bother me but wtf? Why, what on earth for?
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 21:59 - Jun 3 by BigCommon
Wrong again.....
just, you seemed to grab the wrong end of the stick. I was merely asking why many hard working, honest people who graft to make ends meet (I include myself in this) feel compelled to celebrate the enormous inequality the royals bring.
The term 'working class' isn't one I invented.
I'm sorry it made you so insanely angry and will endeavour to word my posts more careful in future.
peace.
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 22:06 - Jun 3 with 1054 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 22:02 - Jun 3 by jeera
No disrespect but I think you've misread the tone completely.
I read it as the working class 'us' (deliberate generalisation) including himself, looking up to our 'betters'.
In this day and age, seriously, what is it people are afraid of? Is it possible there's an element of society who are simply frightened of change and concerned there might be some extra responsibility placed onto them if things don't stay the same; in that without this imagined safety net they have grown up with, or in some cases wanting to revert back to a fantastical time they remember from childhood books et al?
It's not any more complicated than that. He could have said 'commoners' I suppose for the same effect.
There are people still who won't accept that Diana was a 'commoner' and cannot accept that people are just people and seem to need someone to look up to.
Someone across the road from me right now is setting off fireworks. They don't bother me but wtf? Why, what on earth for?
EXACTLY. Thanks.
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 22:14 - Jun 3 with 1031 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 22:05 - Jun 3 by FromReuserWithLove
just, you seemed to grab the wrong end of the stick. I was merely asking why many hard working, honest people who graft to make ends meet (I include myself in this) feel compelled to celebrate the enormous inequality the royals bring.
The term 'working class' isn't one I invented.
I'm sorry it made you so insanely angry and will endeavour to word my posts more careful in future.
peace.
Not the slightest bit angry.... You should just stop guessing...
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 22:14 - Jun 3 with 1029 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 21:39 - Jun 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
You've said my last point's nonsensical but haven't explained why.
You've also not answered in what way the Queen's provided stability.
I didn't say anything about her being a better role model than a PM, so you're building a straw man there.
"Straw man"? hahahaha - this whole argument you kicked off is nonsensical, stemming from your own super straw man assertion that "They've been brainwashed, essentially, over many years. Look at all the posts on here fawning over an old lady with a shiny hat"
Literally no-one on TWTD has done that. Some people have offered greater or lesser support, but it's been qualified, nowhere near "fawning" or unconditional, so totally unjustifiable for you to blanket insult them as "brainwashed". That says more about you than them.
The stability thing is a massive discussion perhaps for a different thread involving Guthers, but not now, I'm off for my tea & an early night, friends over tomorrow.
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 22:14 - Jun 3 by Ryorry
"Straw man"? hahahaha - this whole argument you kicked off is nonsensical, stemming from your own super straw man assertion that "They've been brainwashed, essentially, over many years. Look at all the posts on here fawning over an old lady with a shiny hat"
Literally no-one on TWTD has done that. Some people have offered greater or lesser support, but it's been qualified, nowhere near "fawning" or unconditional, so totally unjustifiable for you to blanket insult them as "brainwashed". That says more about you than them.
The stability thing is a massive discussion perhaps for a different thread involving Guthers, but not now, I'm off for my tea & an early night, friends over tomorrow.
The fact that people have started threads praising her is, to me, fawning. Fine, if you want to disagree.
You can't answer the straw man accusation (because I was spot on - I never compared her to any PMs) so simply throw it back at me.
You can't answer the stability thing either. Why do you need Guthers to help you out? If she's done something to create stability it should be fairly easy to say so. You could've said it in that last sentence instead of passing the buck to others and swerving.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 22:52 - Jun 3 with 989 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 22:35 - Jun 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
The fact that people have started threads praising her is, to me, fawning. Fine, if you want to disagree.
You can't answer the straw man accusation (because I was spot on - I never compared her to any PMs) so simply throw it back at me.
You can't answer the stability thing either. Why do you need Guthers to help you out? If she's done something to create stability it should be fairly easy to say so. You could've said it in that last sentence instead of passing the buck to others and swerving.
How do you pursue this outside TWTD?
Personally I have go at the Mrs and go to Lords to watch cricket (and get very, very ...) whilst she bakes cupcakes for Jubilee street parties she attends in my absence.
Free speech and all that.
Let me know when you're starting the revolution.
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Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 23:56 - Jun 3 with 953 views
Why do the honest, hard working, working class on 22:35 - Jun 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
The fact that people have started threads praising her is, to me, fawning. Fine, if you want to disagree.
You can't answer the straw man accusation (because I was spot on - I never compared her to any PMs) so simply throw it back at me.
You can't answer the stability thing either. Why do you need Guthers to help you out? If she's done something to create stability it should be fairly easy to say so. You could've said it in that last sentence instead of passing the buck to others and swerving.
This is why for the most part I try to avoid getting involved in any discussion with you these days.
You've whipped up the whole argument yourself via straw-manning. When someone is polite enough to answer your questions with straight answers you twist their reasons into somehow being straw manning because either you haven't bothered to read their answers carefully, or their views differ from yours. Then you insult them with judgemental codswallop to boot.
As I said the whole issue of the stability of constitutional monarchies compared with other systems is a massive topic on which opinions differ, only a fool would expect it to be something that could be covered in a 10 minute reply. Clearly it's a topic that would benefit from Guthrum's input, as he's the best known well informed historian on the forum.
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