| No confidence vote IMMINENT 06:34 - Jun 6 with 6317 views | SitfcB |
[Post edited 6 Jun 2022 6:36]
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:03 - Jun 6 with 1222 views | Guthrum |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 08:41 - Jun 6 by GlasgowBlue |
Although Theresa May had a sense of duty and dignity. Johnson has neither and would hang on for as long as possible, regardless of the result. |
Depends to some extent on the aftermath.
Does Johnson try to woo back his critics, or will there be a purge? Does it result in an open split, such as happened during 2019? If 30+ MPs become consistent rebels, that threatens the PM's majority in the House. Produces exactly the same parliamentary chaos he was claiming to have defeated in 2019. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:04 - Jun 6 with 1222 views | GlasgowBlue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 08:54 - Jun 6 by StokieBlue |
Does that really matter though? Look at May, she won the vote but didn't make that year threshold, once the doubt is there things tend to spiral quickly.
I am a bit sick of the politicking. "Better to wait until X", "Not the right time", "No successors".
It's irrelevant in my opinion. He's been awful, he's broken the law, kicking the can because it's not the right time isn't the proper thing to do in my opinion. Any delay plays into his hands. Everyone knows they are going to lose that bi-electiom anyway.
He's a disgrace to the office and an embarrassment to the office.
SB |
As I said to Steve earlier. May had the dignity and sense of duty to know her time was up. Johnson is shameless. He’d win by one vote and then attempt to change the rules so the threshold is 25% next time around.
You may be sick of politicking. But timing is important to get the result people want. Gordon Brown dithers and the decides not to call an election in 2007 that he’d have easily won. He decides against it and loses in 2010.
Surely it’s better to wait a month when there is a far bigger chance that Johnson will lose? |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:06 - Jun 6 with 1219 views | StokieBlue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 08:21 - Jun 6 by tractordownsouth |
VONC confirmed tonight. There are 361 MPs
I’m going to say Johnson wins 203-158. The more long-standing MPs who only voted for him because of his election-winning ability will want to get rid but there are enough ERG members and 2019-intake sycophants to carry him through.
From the perspective of wanting a Labour government, a narrow win for Johnson would be the best outcome. |
So for the potential chance of a Labour government in two years time you're willing to subject the country to two more years of Boris leadership?
SB |  | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:08 - Jun 6 with 1204 views | hype313 |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:04 - Jun 6 by GlasgowBlue |
As I said to Steve earlier. May had the dignity and sense of duty to know her time was up. Johnson is shameless. He’d win by one vote and then attempt to change the rules so the threshold is 25% next time around.
You may be sick of politicking. But timing is important to get the result people want. Gordon Brown dithers and the decides not to call an election in 2007 that he’d have easily won. He decides against it and loses in 2010.
Surely it’s better to wait a month when there is a far bigger chance that Johnson will lose? |
I don't think the upcoming by elections are really that relevant, this has been brewing for a long time now after multiple car crashes he has presided over, don't think many people were thinking after the shambolic partygate episode, let's wait for Honiton to decide. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:11 - Jun 6 with 1191 views | GlasgowBlue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:06 - Jun 6 by StokieBlue |
So for the potential chance of a Labour government in two years time you're willing to subject the country to two more years of Boris leadership?
SB |
Knowing TDS, he’d rather we had a Labour government tomorrow. But that isn’t going to happen and he lives in the real world.
What would be better for the country in the long run? A Labour government in five years time or the chance of another five years of Tory government under a new leader.
I know you hate politicking, but it’s a debate and conversations where outcomes are discussed. [Post edited 6 Jun 2022 9:12]
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:11 - Jun 6 with 1186 views | StokieBlue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:04 - Jun 6 by GlasgowBlue |
As I said to Steve earlier. May had the dignity and sense of duty to know her time was up. Johnson is shameless. He’d win by one vote and then attempt to change the rules so the threshold is 25% next time around.
You may be sick of politicking. But timing is important to get the result people want. Gordon Brown dithers and the decides not to call an election in 2007 that he’d have easily won. He decides against it and loses in 2010.
Surely it’s better to wait a month when there is a far bigger chance that Johnson will lose? |
I'm not convinced there is more chance then, people might not be swayed by the result but it does give him more time to rally and bribe.
Having the vote as soon as possible, even if it's a victory for Boris ramps up the pressure. Sure, he may not resign but eventually the pressure will tell possibly leading to a rule change (which is already being discussed).
And yes, I'm totally sick of the politicking, it's one of the reasons he's even still in office.
SB | | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:12 - Jun 6 with 1187 views | Oldsmoker |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 08:41 - Jun 6 by GlasgowBlue |
Although Theresa May had a sense of duty and dignity. Johnson has neither and would hang on for as long as possible, regardless of the result. |
Johnson is regarded as a cult.
(Not sure if I've spelt that right)
Treeza and Maggie both won their votes of confidence but they realised that too many had expressed their disapproval and did the decent thing and resigned.
I think you're right that Johnson would cling on even if it was a margin of one vote because he has no decency. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:22 - Jun 6 with 1146 views | tractordownsouth |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:06 - Jun 6 by StokieBlue |
So for the potential chance of a Labour government in two years time you're willing to subject the country to two more years of Boris leadership?
SB |
If there was a realistic shot of a moderate Tory who would restore Britain's international standing winning the subsequent leadership election then I wouldn't, but the Tory membership will likely choose another culture warrior and probably one who is more economically right-wing.
Even ignoring my own political preferences, it has got to the point where our international reputation won't be restored unless the whole Conservative Party is removed from office, so if a narrow vote of confidence today increases the likelihood of that outcome then that's a good thing. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:23 - Jun 6 with 1138 views | Radlett_blue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:03 - Jun 6 by Guthrum |
Depends to some extent on the aftermath.
Does Johnson try to woo back his critics, or will there be a purge? Does it result in an open split, such as happened during 2019? If 30+ MPs become consistent rebels, that threatens the PM's majority in the House. Produces exactly the same parliamentary chaos he was claiming to have defeated in 2019. |
Thatcher was only 4 votes short of a 15% majority in the 1990 Conservative leadership election, which would have precluded a 2nd ballot being held. Would be interesting to speculate on how things might have panned out if she had won, because she didn't take the challenge too seriously & I think she would have carried on & probably lost the 1992 General Election. She only resigned (or technically withdrew from the 2nd ballot) after several prominent Cabinet members told her they wouldn't continue to serve under her.
Boris is a very different animal & I doubt he resigns after a narrow win tonight. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:32 - Jun 6 with 1137 views | Steve_M |
Aside, from the drama today, this is an important - and depressing - point:
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:39 - Jun 6 with 1105 views | BlueBadger |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:06 - Jun 6 by StokieBlue |
So for the potential chance of a Labour government in two years time you're willing to subject the country to two more years of Boris leadership?
SB |
All the options are bad, but that's the least worst.
Depressingly. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:39 - Jun 6 with 1118 views | Guthrum |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:32 - Jun 6 by Steve_M |
Aside, from the drama today, this is an important - and depressing - point:
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The Conservative Party has no ideological direction beyond Brexit (which has now happened) and staying in power.
The Labour Party has no ideological direction beyond being more responsible with the economy than the Tories (while running it in much the same way) and being socially slightly nicer.
The LibDems and the Greens have all sorts of radical ideas but are nowhere near achieving power as anything other than very junior partners in a coalition.
The SNP is obsessed with Scottish independence votes and very little else. The rest of the UK is of no interest to them.
Not much there to inspire political debate or the electorate. | |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:47 - Jun 6 with 1074 views | BlueBadger |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:03 - Jun 6 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s a well constructed letter and he’s nailed BJ’s faults. It’d be interesting to see how he voted on these policy issues he’s now decided to criticise.
He seems somewhat arrogant thinking that a change of government at the next election would be “catastrophic for this country”. I’d argue a catastrophe would be more years of the Tories breaking everything. So it’s good on one hand and the usual self-serving party-first drivel on the other. |
Forelock tugger all the way.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24827/jesse_norman/hereford_and_south_hereford | |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:56 - Jun 6 with 1049 views | Guthrum |
Telling lines from a briefing document allegedly being sent around the parliamentary Conservative Party (according to the Guardian):
'The most damning line was that the booing of Johnson during the Queen’s jubilee “tells us nothing the data does not” and that no social group polled says they trust the prime minister.
Another point says the “entire purpose of the government now appears to be the sustenance of Boris Johnson as prime minister” — pointing to his personal negative ratings and saying that “defending the indefensible” is not to protect the party but one man.'
Edit: The latter being somewhat reminiscent of the US Republicans and Trump. [Post edited 6 Jun 2022 9:58]
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:07 - Jun 6 with 1008 views | Unit2Blue |
He is toast thank goodness, with a secret ballot even those that have spoken up for him will vote him out. |  | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:08 - Jun 6 with 999 views | BlueBadger |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 08:49 - Jun 6 by Guthrum |
However, both the letter-writing and subsequent ballot are secret. Very different to sticking your head above the parapet in the media. |
Although, how secret will they remain?
This is a collective of people who are so stupid that they not only frequently broke the law at a time of national crisis, but they took pictures of it. | |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:26 - Jun 6 with 956 views | StokieBlue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 09:22 - Jun 6 by tractordownsouth |
If there was a realistic shot of a moderate Tory who would restore Britain's international standing winning the subsequent leadership election then I wouldn't, but the Tory membership will likely choose another culture warrior and probably one who is more economically right-wing.
Even ignoring my own political preferences, it has got to the point where our international reputation won't be restored unless the whole Conservative Party is removed from office, so if a narrow vote of confidence today increases the likelihood of that outcome then that's a good thing. |
I understand the argument that you and GB are making, however there is a risk that you are both so into politics that you are more interested in the long-term "game" than the immediate issues.
For instance, can you think of another job where people say "lets not remove this bad person in case we get someone worse". Nobody ever says that about a teacher or a football manager so why should it apply to the PM? It wouldn't apply to the PM if there weren't a big political game to play.
"Tory membership will likely choose another culture warrior and probably one who is more economically right-wing"
If you're not concerned about timescales or the effects on the country between now and any general election then surely this would be an even better way of ensuring a Labour victory at the next election?
"Even ignoring my own political preferences, it has got to the point where our international reputation won't be restored unless the whole Conservative Party is removed from office, so if a narrow vote of confidence today increases the likelihood of that outcome then that's a good thing."
Things like our international reputation aren't going to be fixed overnight and allowing Boris another 2 years is likely to make things on that front even worse - nothing like showing the rest of the world that we like to keep a liar in power. I fully understand the desire for the Tories to be out of government but I just disagree that keeping them in government for another 2 years under Boris is the way to go about it. We know from opinion polls that the majority of the country don't think it's the right way to go about it.
If people want change then it shouldn't matter if Boris is there or not, I think there is agreement that most of the possible successors are rubbish so it also shouldn't affect possible results too much in a few years time.
Perhaps I am unrealistic but I'd prefer my PM for the next 2 years not to be a proven liar and lawbreaker. I'm not happy to overlook the present in the hope of a potentially better future down the line. It's up to Labour to win over the voters, not rely on Boris being rubbish.
SB | | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:35 - Jun 6 with 927 views | giant_stow |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:26 - Jun 6 by StokieBlue |
I understand the argument that you and GB are making, however there is a risk that you are both so into politics that you are more interested in the long-term "game" than the immediate issues.
For instance, can you think of another job where people say "lets not remove this bad person in case we get someone worse". Nobody ever says that about a teacher or a football manager so why should it apply to the PM? It wouldn't apply to the PM if there weren't a big political game to play.
"Tory membership will likely choose another culture warrior and probably one who is more economically right-wing"
If you're not concerned about timescales or the effects on the country between now and any general election then surely this would be an even better way of ensuring a Labour victory at the next election?
"Even ignoring my own political preferences, it has got to the point where our international reputation won't be restored unless the whole Conservative Party is removed from office, so if a narrow vote of confidence today increases the likelihood of that outcome then that's a good thing."
Things like our international reputation aren't going to be fixed overnight and allowing Boris another 2 years is likely to make things on that front even worse - nothing like showing the rest of the world that we like to keep a liar in power. I fully understand the desire for the Tories to be out of government but I just disagree that keeping them in government for another 2 years under Boris is the way to go about it. We know from opinion polls that the majority of the country don't think it's the right way to go about it.
If people want change then it shouldn't matter if Boris is there or not, I think there is agreement that most of the possible successors are rubbish so it also shouldn't affect possible results too much in a few years time.
Perhaps I am unrealistic but I'd prefer my PM for the next 2 years not to be a proven liar and lawbreaker. I'm not happy to overlook the present in the hope of a potentially better future down the line. It's up to Labour to win over the voters, not rely on Boris being rubbish.
SB |
Imo, you're putting too much onto Boris. His crappy party have enabled him all the way and are just as much at fault as he is. The next two years will see a sh1thole govt whether he stays or not. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:40 - Jun 6 with 906 views | StokieBlue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:35 - Jun 6 by giant_stow |
Imo, you're putting too much onto Boris. His crappy party have enabled him all the way and are just as much at fault as he is. The next two years will see a sh1thole govt whether he stays or not. |
Surely this supports my point that he should go if anyone else will be just as bad? What's the point in keeping him?
I don't think his party made him have Abba-themed parties in his private residence during lockdowns or told him to have his flat decorated with dubious funds. They have of course enabled him in many ways but I can't agree with you absolving him of much of the responsibility which is the inference of your post.
It's his watch, it's his fault. You can guarantee if things were going well it'll be him taking all the credit.
SB | | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:43 - Jun 6 with 914 views | blueasfook |
Good, hopefully he'll be gone after this evening.
He thought he could survive Partygate but it just refuses to go away doesnt it. He rightly needs to be held accountable with a VOC. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:49 - Jun 6 with 884 views | Parky |
Boris Johnson’s blue and white army. | | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:50 - Jun 6 with 869 views | LeoMuff |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:07 - Jun 6 by Unit2Blue |
He is toast thank goodness, with a secret ballot even those that have spoken up for him will vote him out. |
Sunak now come out in support, yeah right Rishi pull the other one… |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:52 - Jun 6 with 862 views | hype313 |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:43 - Jun 6 by blueasfook |
Good, hopefully he'll be gone after this evening.
He thought he could survive Partygate but it just refuses to go away doesnt it. He rightly needs to be held accountable with a VOC. |
He's a turd that won't flush. | |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:52 - Jun 6 with 858 views | giant_stow |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:40 - Jun 6 by StokieBlue |
Surely this supports my point that he should go if anyone else will be just as bad? What's the point in keeping him?
I don't think his party made him have Abba-themed parties in his private residence during lockdowns or told him to have his flat decorated with dubious funds. They have of course enabled him in many ways but I can't agree with you absolving him of much of the responsibility which is the inference of your post.
It's his watch, it's his fault. You can guarantee if things were going well it'll be him taking all the credit.
SB |
Absolving him? I think I must have put my point badly as I would never suggest that! I just think there's no moral difference between him and his enablers - all hands are equally dirty.
I guess I'm not really commenting on the rights and wrongs of him staying/going from a labour perspective - just saying that if he were to go, I wouldn't expect any improvement from the rest of the Tory party who are up to their neck in it. | |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:02 - Jun 6 with 834 views | BlueBadger |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:49 - Jun 6 by Parky |
Boris Johnson’s blue and white army. |
What is it about Boris you like best - the racism, the homophobia, the corruption, the incompetence or the criminality? | |
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