| No confidence vote IMMINENT 06:34 - Jun 6 with 6319 views | SitfcB |
[Post edited 6 Jun 2022 6:36]
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:02 - Jun 6 with 1195 views | blueasfook |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:49 - Jun 6 by Parky |
Boris Johnson’s blue and white army. |
Rishi Sunak's Blue and White army after tomorrow |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:03 - Jun 6 with 1193 views | blueasfook |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:50 - Jun 6 by LeoMuff |
Sunak now come out in support, yeah right Rishi pull the other one… |
He'll be salivating at the prospect of sticking the knife in Boris's back. It's tory tradition to do a Brutus on the leader. | |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:18 - Jun 6 with 1150 views | tractordownsouth |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:26 - Jun 6 by StokieBlue |
I understand the argument that you and GB are making, however there is a risk that you are both so into politics that you are more interested in the long-term "game" than the immediate issues.
For instance, can you think of another job where people say "lets not remove this bad person in case we get someone worse". Nobody ever says that about a teacher or a football manager so why should it apply to the PM? It wouldn't apply to the PM if there weren't a big political game to play.
"Tory membership will likely choose another culture warrior and probably one who is more economically right-wing"
If you're not concerned about timescales or the effects on the country between now and any general election then surely this would be an even better way of ensuring a Labour victory at the next election?
"Even ignoring my own political preferences, it has got to the point where our international reputation won't be restored unless the whole Conservative Party is removed from office, so if a narrow vote of confidence today increases the likelihood of that outcome then that's a good thing."
Things like our international reputation aren't going to be fixed overnight and allowing Boris another 2 years is likely to make things on that front even worse - nothing like showing the rest of the world that we like to keep a liar in power. I fully understand the desire for the Tories to be out of government but I just disagree that keeping them in government for another 2 years under Boris is the way to go about it. We know from opinion polls that the majority of the country don't think it's the right way to go about it.
If people want change then it shouldn't matter if Boris is there or not, I think there is agreement that most of the possible successors are rubbish so it also shouldn't affect possible results too much in a few years time.
Perhaps I am unrealistic but I'd prefer my PM for the next 2 years not to be a proven liar and lawbreaker. I'm not happy to overlook the present in the hope of a potentially better future down the line. It's up to Labour to win over the voters, not rely on Boris being rubbish.
SB |
I am concerned about the timescales and the effect on the country. We're stuck with the Tories for another 2 years regardless and I think any leader policy-wise will be similar to Johnson, so keeping the same policies with an electorally toxic leader makes little difference to how the country is run in the short term but increases the chance of getting the Tories out.
On point 2, that's fair enough. But again I think the entire Tory Party's relationship with the truth is such that Johnson's successor would likely employ similar tactics (although probably minus the lawbreaking, unless it's Sunak.) |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:22 - Jun 6 with 1140 views | chicoazul |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 08:54 - Jun 6 by hype313 |
No one who survives a VONC lasts very long, they limp on until they are finished off. |
Many of you have been saying this about Johnson for nearly a year now. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:24 - Jun 6 with 1133 views | hype313 |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:22 - Jun 6 by chicoazul |
Many of you have been saying this about Johnson for nearly a year now. |
Eh? he's not faced a VONC until today. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:27 - Jun 6 with 1123 views | chicoazul |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:24 - Jun 6 by hype313 |
Eh? he's not faced a VONC until today. |
Yes sorry I was distracted. Samantha from accounts. What I meant was, more broadly about TWTD predicting constantly that *this* is the thing that will finish Johnson for the last year. And yet here he is. | |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:50 - Jun 6 with 1086 views | StokieBlue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:18 - Jun 6 by tractordownsouth |
I am concerned about the timescales and the effect on the country. We're stuck with the Tories for another 2 years regardless and I think any leader policy-wise will be similar to Johnson, so keeping the same policies with an electorally toxic leader makes little difference to how the country is run in the short term but increases the chance of getting the Tories out.
On point 2, that's fair enough. But again I think the entire Tory Party's relationship with the truth is such that Johnson's successor would likely employ similar tactics (although probably minus the lawbreaking, unless it's Sunak.) |
I just don't think I agree with your first paragraph. Two years is a long time for Boris to burn international bridges in his unique style. Sure, another leader might be bad with regards to policy but once again I'm not especially happy to have a PM who is so toxic representing us on the world stage for the next two years just to possibly increase the chances of Labour winning.
Labour should be wining based on their policies and own leadership, not relying on the Tories having a toxic lunatic in charge. Sure that can help but you're pushing it as a major factor in getting Labour into power and it probably shouldn't be.
I've simply had enough of Boris. I don't want him representing me anywhere for anything and if that makes it slightly harder to get the Tories out then Labour will have to work that out - 2 years is plenty of time. Him leaving might also mean it won't be a full 2 years until a GE - will depend heavily on public opinion on any new leader.
SB |  | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:54 - Jun 6 with 1073 views | Ryorry |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:26 - Jun 6 by StokieBlue |
I understand the argument that you and GB are making, however there is a risk that you are both so into politics that you are more interested in the long-term "game" than the immediate issues.
For instance, can you think of another job where people say "lets not remove this bad person in case we get someone worse". Nobody ever says that about a teacher or a football manager so why should it apply to the PM? It wouldn't apply to the PM if there weren't a big political game to play.
"Tory membership will likely choose another culture warrior and probably one who is more economically right-wing"
If you're not concerned about timescales or the effects on the country between now and any general election then surely this would be an even better way of ensuring a Labour victory at the next election?
"Even ignoring my own political preferences, it has got to the point where our international reputation won't be restored unless the whole Conservative Party is removed from office, so if a narrow vote of confidence today increases the likelihood of that outcome then that's a good thing."
Things like our international reputation aren't going to be fixed overnight and allowing Boris another 2 years is likely to make things on that front even worse - nothing like showing the rest of the world that we like to keep a liar in power. I fully understand the desire for the Tories to be out of government but I just disagree that keeping them in government for another 2 years under Boris is the way to go about it. We know from opinion polls that the majority of the country don't think it's the right way to go about it.
If people want change then it shouldn't matter if Boris is there or not, I think there is agreement that most of the possible successors are rubbish so it also shouldn't affect possible results too much in a few years time.
Perhaps I am unrealistic but I'd prefer my PM for the next 2 years not to be a proven liar and lawbreaker. I'm not happy to overlook the present in the hope of a potentially better future down the line. It's up to Labour to win over the voters, not rely on Boris being rubbish.
SB |
Quite. There comes, I think, a kind of "stinkpoint" at which the idea of the rotten-ness being allowed to continue & spread, particularly bearing in mind the systematic holding up of two fingers & dismantling of cherished institutions like the ministerial code, the right to peacefully protest etc. is just unbearable, the red card needs to be held up.
I've spoken before about how easy & quick it is to knock good old dry stone walls over; how difficult & lengthy a process it'd be to build them back up.
The reputational damage to the UK has been immense, can't be allowed to go on, not least because in practical terms it'll adversely impact our economy for years to come. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:03 - Jun 6 with 1056 views | Guthrum |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:08 - Jun 6 by BlueBadger |
Although, how secret will they remain?
This is a collective of people who are so stupid that they not only frequently broke the law at a time of national crisis, but they took pictures of it. |
Brady knows his job - and that any leaks would be traceable directly back to him (he being the only person who holds the information). |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:03 - Jun 6 with 1055 views | tractordownsouth |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 11:50 - Jun 6 by StokieBlue |
I just don't think I agree with your first paragraph. Two years is a long time for Boris to burn international bridges in his unique style. Sure, another leader might be bad with regards to policy but once again I'm not especially happy to have a PM who is so toxic representing us on the world stage for the next two years just to possibly increase the chances of Labour winning.
Labour should be wining based on their policies and own leadership, not relying on the Tories having a toxic lunatic in charge. Sure that can help but you're pushing it as a major factor in getting Labour into power and it probably shouldn't be.
I've simply had enough of Boris. I don't want him representing me anywhere for anything and if that makes it slightly harder to get the Tories out then Labour will have to work that out - 2 years is plenty of time. Him leaving might also mean it won't be a full 2 years until a GE - will depend heavily on public opinion on any new leader.
SB |
If this were happening with the electoral map of 2010 or 2017 then I'd agree - in normal circumstances a good Labour leader should be able to beat any Tory leader given the economic circumstances. However, Starmer inherited a party 163 seats and 11% of the vote behind in the 2019 election. Such a margin hasn't been overturned in 1 parliamentary term since Attlee, so having a deeply unpopular Tory PM is probably his only chance of winning.
I don't want him representing us internationally either - but would someone like Liz Truss be any less embarrassing? Jeremy Hunt, for all of his faults as health secretary, would be a different story but I can't see anyone of his ilk winning. | |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:08 - Jun 6 with 1056 views | Steve_M |
Nads is off on one, admits that covid preparations were in inadequate to have a go at Hunt. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:22 - Jun 6 with 1024 views | EastTownBlue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:08 - Jun 6 by Steve_M |
Nads is off on one, admits that covid preparations were in inadequate to have a go at Hunt. |
An interesting way of admitting government failure. |  | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:28 - Jun 6 with 1003 views | GlasgowBlue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 10:26 - Jun 6 by StokieBlue |
I understand the argument that you and GB are making, however there is a risk that you are both so into politics that you are more interested in the long-term "game" than the immediate issues.
For instance, can you think of another job where people say "lets not remove this bad person in case we get someone worse". Nobody ever says that about a teacher or a football manager so why should it apply to the PM? It wouldn't apply to the PM if there weren't a big political game to play.
"Tory membership will likely choose another culture warrior and probably one who is more economically right-wing"
If you're not concerned about timescales or the effects on the country between now and any general election then surely this would be an even better way of ensuring a Labour victory at the next election?
"Even ignoring my own political preferences, it has got to the point where our international reputation won't be restored unless the whole Conservative Party is removed from office, so if a narrow vote of confidence today increases the likelihood of that outcome then that's a good thing."
Things like our international reputation aren't going to be fixed overnight and allowing Boris another 2 years is likely to make things on that front even worse - nothing like showing the rest of the world that we like to keep a liar in power. I fully understand the desire for the Tories to be out of government but I just disagree that keeping them in government for another 2 years under Boris is the way to go about it. We know from opinion polls that the majority of the country don't think it's the right way to go about it.
If people want change then it shouldn't matter if Boris is there or not, I think there is agreement that most of the possible successors are rubbish so it also shouldn't affect possible results too much in a few years time.
Perhaps I am unrealistic but I'd prefer my PM for the next 2 years not to be a proven liar and lawbreaker. I'm not happy to overlook the present in the hope of a potentially better future down the line. It's up to Labour to win over the voters, not rely on Boris being rubbish.
SB |
I’d have replied sooner but I’m on the road.
I’m not invested in a future Labour government as TDS is. My position is that I want Johnson to go. My view is that he may well survive tonight, whereas had the vote taken place after the by-elections then I’d think he’d lose badly.
Id rather the vote took place when Johnson was at his weakest. But I hope my gut feeling is wrong and he goes tonight. |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:33 - Jun 6 with 992 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 08:31 - Jun 6 by Steve_M |
I can't see that 12 month rule lasting any longer than it would have done had Theresa May nor resigned when she did.
Narrow win but one more step towards a slow political death. I'll go for 160 voting against. |
Anything over 100 MPs voting to oust him is "Dead Man Walking" territory.
Every single PMQs Starmer will be able to crescendo into a last line of "He's not fit to be Prime Minister: the country knows it, everyone on these benches knows it, and 100 of the people on the benches opposite know it!"
And it won't be long before they start demanding concessions and special treatment for their constituency in exchange for them not voting down a Government Bill.
Which is exactly how the Brexiteers played May. So I kind of want to see Johnson linger and suffer that indignity for a few months... | | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:45 - Jun 6 with 956 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 08:29 - Jun 6 by CaptainAhab |
Quietly devastating is all well and good, however I think it's time for loudly, violently, apocalyptically devastating, to make sure Boris can't keep his fingers in his ears |
It's a very well written, concise, scalpelling of all that is rotten about this Government.
Isn't it great that the same bloke who voted for all those bad things now cites them as the reasons why he can't support the Prime Minister?
I mean he may have had a "Road to Damascus" or "Are we the baddies?" conversion, but otherwise it is pretty lame to try and distance himself from all the main planks of Tory policy of the past 3 years WHEN HE WAS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE PROCESS THAT MADE THEM LAW! | | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:48 - Jun 6 with 939 views | BlueBadger |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 08:21 - Jun 6 by Dubtractor |
This letter is quietly devastating.
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'After 15 years of being friends with Jack the Ripper, I have decided that actually, there's been too much ripping now.' |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:12 - Jun 6 with 884 views | ITFC_Forever |
Anyone like to guess how the erstwhile MP for Ipswich will vote? |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:16 - Jun 6 with 866 views | Parmigiano |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:03 - Jun 6 by tractordownsouth |
If this were happening with the electoral map of 2010 or 2017 then I'd agree - in normal circumstances a good Labour leader should be able to beat any Tory leader given the economic circumstances. However, Starmer inherited a party 163 seats and 11% of the vote behind in the 2019 election. Such a margin hasn't been overturned in 1 parliamentary term since Attlee, so having a deeply unpopular Tory PM is probably his only chance of winning.
I don't want him representing us internationally either - but would someone like Liz Truss be any less embarrassing? Jeremy Hunt, for all of his faults as health secretary, would be a different story but I can't see anyone of his ilk winning. |
The other enormous elephant in the room for Labour is the SNP's rise in the last decade.
Without the Scottish vote, it will always be extremely hard for Labour to win a majority. They'd need to either defeat the SNP in Scotland once again, or form a very unlikely alliance with them... |  | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:25 - Jun 6 with 849 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:48 - Jun 6 by BlueBadger |
'After 15 years of being friends with Jack the Ripper, I have decided that actually, there's been too much ripping now.' |
Yeah, you put it much more concisely than me! | | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:26 - Jun 6 with 844 views | SitfcB |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:08 - Jun 6 by Steve_M |
Nads is off on one, admits that covid preparations were in inadequate to have a go at Hunt. |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:29 - Jun 6 with 822 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:16 - Jun 6 by Parmigiano |
The other enormous elephant in the room for Labour is the SNP's rise in the last decade.
Without the Scottish vote, it will always be extremely hard for Labour to win a majority. They'd need to either defeat the SNP in Scotland once again, or form a very unlikely alliance with them... |
Which is why they must back Constitutional Reform to restore the checks and balances on Executive Power and Proportional Representation.
Once that is achieved, the Corbynites and Blairites can split and campaign on different manifestos, and everyone will be much happier. | | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:32 - Jun 6 with 815 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:26 - Jun 6 by SitfcB |
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"I'm hearing" is Lobby Correspondent code for "My director just mused this aloud, so I'm running with it because I have another 10 hours of rolling news to staff off in, and nobody who counts is actually telling me anything!" | | | |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:40 - Jun 6 with 787 views | Steve_M |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:26 - Jun 6 by SitfcB |
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Note to Gav: Please add a [popcorn] smiley. | |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:45 - Jun 6 with 773 views | unbelievablue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 12:28 - Jun 6 by GlasgowBlue |
I’d have replied sooner but I’m on the road.
I’m not invested in a future Labour government as TDS is. My position is that I want Johnson to go. My view is that he may well survive tonight, whereas had the vote taken place after the by-elections then I’d think he’d lose badly.
Id rather the vote took place when Johnson was at his weakest. But I hope my gut feeling is wrong and he goes tonight. |
Yeah, this is too soon for him to go now. Stupid really. That said, anything but a resounding victory will spell the end in the months to come. How long did May last after she survived? 8 months? |  |
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| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:47 - Jun 6 with 768 views | unbelievablue |
| No confidence vote IMMINENT on 13:40 - Jun 6 by Steve_M |
Note to Gav: Please add a [popcorn] smiley. |
Except this is like eating popcorn during the Exorcist. | |
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