| Public sector strikes 08:23 - Jun 22 with 3475 views | Crawfordsboot |
I can’t help but feel that the rail strikes harp back to the days of Scargil where a militant leader of a key sector wants to grab as much as possible for his workers at an unacceptable cost for society (and other workers) as a whole.
I have limited sympathy for railway workers being a special case if they are on a reported average of £45k p.a. On the other hand I am sympathetic to nurses or teachers on £30k or £35k average, or indeed others on less than this. Given that resources are finite and that an element of current inflation is the one off energy impact why not award the public sector workers an increase calculated as the greater of £1,350 p.a. or 3%. This would be 4.5% or more for many teachers or health workers and for low paid rail support staff but be just 3% for the higher paid (45k+).
In addition to the above there is of course the one off energy support payments being made so that should be recognised on top of the £1,350.
A general strike in support of this sort of proposal I would support. I could not support a rail strike that would see already well paid union members benefit disproportionately to other less well off workers. [Post edited 22 Jun 2022 8:27]
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| Public sector strikes on 09:32 - Jun 22 with 985 views | textbackup |
| Public sector strikes on 08:48 - Jun 22 by BLUEGOLD |
Train drivers are members of ASLEF, not the RMT.
A large number of RMT members (about 10000 people) are low paid cleaners whose wages aren’t included in the governments average calculation.
Surprisingly the governments figures aren’t true.
The average wage for an RMT member is circa £33k, not £45k
Tory culture wars again.
Inflation is 9%, the union wants 7% & the offer is 3%. |
our situation at work has seen a blanket pay rise of £1500 across the board....
meaning those at lower end of pay scale have seen an 8% pay rise, and at the top of pay scale, 1.5%....
while the CEO took a 23% payrise.
divide and conquer i believe the saying is [Post edited 22 Jun 2022 9:41]
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| Public sector strikes on 09:33 - Jun 22 with 984 views | unbelievablue |
| Public sector strikes on 09:32 - Jun 22 by Basuco |
This thread is about about the RMT strike, not ASLEF who represent train drivers. But train driver salaries are only used so it brings up the average pay of railway workers. Which is what you said. [Post edited 22 Jun 2022 9:34]
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Although ASLEF are also striking tomorrow. |  |
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| Public sector strikes on 09:44 - Jun 22 with 946 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Public sector strikes on 09:32 - Jun 22 by textbackup |
our situation at work has seen a blanket pay rise of £1500 across the board....
meaning those at lower end of pay scale have seen an 8% pay rise, and at the top of pay scale, 1.5%....
while the CEO took a 23% payrise.
divide and conquer i believe the saying is [Post edited 22 Jun 2022 9:41]
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If £1,500 across the board is what the business can afford it would seem to me to be a reasonable attempt to treat people fairly. It will really help the poorest whilst maintaining the pay differentials across the company.
Sharing out what can be afforded by giving the better paid more than the poorest would be an odd approach. | | | |
| Public sector strikes on 09:46 - Jun 22 with 937 views | ZXBlue |
| Public sector strikes on 09:44 - Jun 22 by Crawfordsboot |
If £1,500 across the board is what the business can afford it would seem to me to be a reasonable attempt to treat people fairly. It will really help the poorest whilst maintaining the pay differentials across the company.
Sharing out what can be afforded by giving the better paid more than the poorest would be an odd approach. |
Its not an awful approach. Though it is pretty insulting to some at the higher end (not the ceos etc), who are doing the same work as they were a few years ago and getting paid less to do so. Sometimes, people towards the top end have deserved their salaries for long hours, comittment, excellence, qualifications etc. |  | | |
| Public sector strikes on 09:48 - Jun 22 with 930 views | unbelievablue |
| Public sector strikes on 09:46 - Jun 22 by ZXBlue |
Its not an awful approach. Though it is pretty insulting to some at the higher end (not the ceos etc), who are doing the same work as they were a few years ago and getting paid less to do so. Sometimes, people towards the top end have deserved their salaries for long hours, comittment, excellence, qualifications etc. |
And they're compensated as such for having done so. Hence, the higher end. | |
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| Public sector strikes on 09:58 - Jun 22 with 913 views | ZXBlue |
| Public sector strikes on 09:48 - Jun 22 by unbelievablue |
And they're compensated as such for having done so. Hence, the higher end. |
Of course. From their perspective though, if inflation is 10 % and they get £1500, half of which disappears in tax, then they are being valued at less every year and will have increasing difficulty meeting their own committments taken on the basis of their earnings beforehand. | | | |
| Public sector strikes on 10:04 - Jun 22 with 900 views | unbelievablue |
| Public sector strikes on 09:58 - Jun 22 by ZXBlue |
Of course. From their perspective though, if inflation is 10 % and they get £1500, half of which disappears in tax, then they are being valued at less every year and will have increasing difficulty meeting their own committments taken on the basis of their earnings beforehand. |
Hmm. I struggle to sympathise all that much. If you earn a lot and you can't meet your commitments due to inflation, you haven't planned particularly well. | |
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| Public sector strikes on 10:06 - Jun 22 with 896 views | ZXBlue |
| Public sector strikes on 10:04 - Jun 22 by unbelievablue |
Hmm. I struggle to sympathise all that much. If you earn a lot and you can't meet your commitments due to inflation, you haven't planned particularly well. |
Same for lower paid people then?
Of course higher earners are more able to deal with financial pressures.
But that does not mean that below inflation pay deals are fair or acceptable for them either. Thats all. | | | |
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| Public sector strikes on 10:08 - Jun 22 with 891 views | unbelievablue |
| Public sector strikes on 10:06 - Jun 22 by ZXBlue |
Same for lower paid people then?
Of course higher earners are more able to deal with financial pressures.
But that does not mean that below inflation pay deals are fair or acceptable for them either. Thats all. |
It's not the same for lower paid workers because they are genuinely struggling with the cost of living, as opposed to the cost of their lifestyle (higher paid workers).
Below inflation pay deals aren't fair in either case, as you say, but I don't really understand how anyone can sympathise equally with both groups. | |
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| Public sector strikes on 10:31 - Jun 22 with 859 views | textbackup |
| Public sector strikes on 09:44 - Jun 22 by Crawfordsboot |
If £1,500 across the board is what the business can afford it would seem to me to be a reasonable attempt to treat people fairly. It will really help the poorest whilst maintaining the pay differentials across the company.
Sharing out what can be afforded by giving the better paid more than the poorest would be an odd approach. |
a business that made multi millions.....
yeah not buying they cant afford more personally. but i am of the opinion that anything is better then nothing.
and for what its worth, it wouldnt be an odd approach, its the approach that has been adopted within said company since long before i joined. has always been % increase over a blanket figure across the board | |
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| Public sector strikes on 10:40 - Jun 22 with 854 views | BlueBadger |
| Public sector strikes on 08:39 - Jun 22 by MattinLondon |
If true, the only reason railworkers are on better money than nurses and teachers is that their union is more proactive and demands their members salary is maintained. I’m sure the government would love all unions to be abolished so that public sector workers will work for peanuts. |
Point of order: rail workers are not public sector workers. |  |
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| Public sector strikes on 10:45 - Jun 22 with 845 views | BlueBadger |
| Public sector strikes on 09:18 - Jun 22 by meekreech |
It is time for strike action by public sector workers to be made illegal. As things are at present workers and companies are being made to suffer losses by the few. The leaders of the most militant unions are amongst the most highly paid, most being paid more than ministers in the government. It is surely time that the striking unions are going to be sued for damages in the private sector. The most obvious solution to this situation is for strikes by public sector unions to be made illegal. The railways should be making greater strides in technology ( which already exists) changes towards running driverless trains. |
Rail workers aren't public sector workers though. | |
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| Public sector strikes on 11:00 - Jun 22 with 824 views | keighleyblue |
| Public sector strikes on 09:08 - Jun 22 by ZXBlue |
Pensioners is where a lot of tory support lies. |
and veterans, evidently |  | | |
| Public sector strikes on 11:24 - Jun 22 with 803 views | hatch |
I'm not convinced the profits in the railway are where people think they are. 60% of pre-covid passenger levels with the exact same cost base as pre-covid. Fairly easy to see that profit margins have eroded and I wouldn't be surprised if there were loss-making TOCs out there being propped up by the government still so not to shut the railway completely.
Something needs to give as the current structure of the railway doesn't have a sustainable future. It needs to be planned in the right way and all parties need to get on board and showing a willingness to negotiate on a realistic way forward or the railway will collapse and we'll have no trains, or the government will be forced to bail out TOCs year after year at an eye-watering cost to the taxpayer (the same pot of money which could be increasing the pay of NHS and teachers).
I'm not convinced any of the parties will back down easily on this and fear these strikes will rumble on, ultimately do the detriment of unionised staff who will end up worse off this year than last year during a cost of living crisis due to the days of lost pay. No one is winning and it's incredibly sad to see. |  | | |
| Public sector strikes on 11:30 - Jun 22 with 800 views | Guthrum |
Should also be remembered that it was only a few months ago this same Government was touting the benefits of a high-wage economy. |  |
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| Public sector strikes on 11:35 - Jun 22 with 782 views | Blueschev |
| Public sector strikes on 11:30 - Jun 22 by Guthrum |
Should also be remembered that it was only a few months ago this same Government was touting the benefits of a high-wage economy. |
They were making a point about something else. |  | | |
| Public sector strikes on 11:42 - Jun 22 with 772 views | GeoffSentence |
| Public sector strikes on 09:18 - Jun 22 by meekreech |
It is time for strike action by public sector workers to be made illegal. As things are at present workers and companies are being made to suffer losses by the few. The leaders of the most militant unions are amongst the most highly paid, most being paid more than ministers in the government. It is surely time that the striking unions are going to be sued for damages in the private sector. The most obvious solution to this situation is for strikes by public sector unions to be made illegal. The railways should be making greater strides in technology ( which already exists) changes towards running driverless trains. |
That would probably cover the network rail employees, but train operating companies are private so your idea would not apply to them. |  |
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| Public sector strikes on 11:54 - Jun 22 with 765 views | BlueNomad |
| Public sector strikes on 08:50 - Jun 22 by ZXBlue |
They are telling similar lies about criminal barristers this morning too. Claiming that there is a lower than 50% mandate for the action they are taking and that they have been offered a significant increase already. Both untrue. |
Whereas a 52% mandate allows you to ruin the country |  | | |
| Public sector strikes on 11:59 - Jun 22 with 747 views | ZXBlue |
| Public sector strikes on 11:54 - Jun 22 by BlueNomad |
Whereas a 52% mandate allows you to ruin the country |
More to the point, they have deliberately been misleading. The mandate amongst criminal barristers for action was extremely high, but the way the vote was done meant that there were three "action" options splitting the vote for a specific course. | | | |
| Public sector strikes on 12:13 - Jun 22 with 716 views | Parsley |
I'm broadly in favour of the idea of a fixed minimum price rise. The union I'm a part of has pushed for what they call 'cash underpins' in the past at the company I work for and staff are mainly supportive of it as it means that those who earn less get a larger % increase which can cover the cost of living increase and those who earn more tend to have more disposable income so can more easily absorb the cost. It's not ideal for everyone obviously but in most years this is a relatively small difference. This year is another kettle of fish.
All of this though is part of the negotiating process. If the company you're negotiating with comes back with a final offer then there aren't a huge number of options apart from industrial action. I'm not an expert on the rail dispute but it looks like RMT have asked for a 7% rise and been offered 3%, with inflation currently around 9%. Of course strikes are annoying for a lot of people but personally I wouldn't criticise anyone for standing up for a fair wage increase (or less of a real terms wage cut). |  | | |
| Public sector strikes on 13:16 - Jun 22 with 681 views | Strimmer |
| Public sector strikes on 10:45 - Jun 22 by BlueBadger |
Rail workers aren't public sector workers though. |
the ones that work for network rail are, which is your signallers, rail engineers and so on; a large chunk of the roles striking. | |
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| Public sector strikes on 13:20 - Jun 22 with 671 views | meekreech |
| Public sector strikes on 09:29 - Jun 22 by wrightsrightglove |
Listening to pretty much anything Mick Lynch says makes me realise how disillusioned and angry I am at the state of politics in this country. To me he speaks complete sense, he speaks what me and, I’m hoping, a huge amount of others feel. The rail industry made £500million profit in a year where rail travel struggled due to covid, why? Where does this money go? Why can at least a decent chunk of that money not be used to pay their workers a decent wage? Why would anyone be against that? Same with utility companies, banks, construction companies, so so many industries where millions if not billions of pounds of profit are made to be shared out amongst the few who sit at the top of the pile and their government friends rather than being used to adequately, or even more than adequately, pay the people who are out there working to create this profit.
The system is f****d for want of a better word and so all power to the people who won’t stand for it anymore.
The strikes are going to massively disrupt me this Saturday and have made my journeys a lot more difficult but honestly, if that’s what it takes then so be it. |
The £500 million profit has to be weighed against the £12 billion paid to keep the railways working.
Make the future of the railways driverless and efficient! | |
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| Public sector strikes on 14:40 - Jun 22 with 636 views | factual_blue |
| Public sector strikes on 11:30 - Jun 22 by Guthrum |
Should also be remembered that it was only a few months ago this same Government was touting the benefits of a high-wage economy. |
..but clearly only for hedge fund managers.... |  |
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| Public sector strikes on 14:46 - Jun 22 with 631 views | factual_blue |
The railways aren't (regrettably) in the public sector.
And why shouldn't union members want a bigger share of the cake of capitalism? | |
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| Public sector strikes on 16:15 - Jun 22 with 589 views | meekreech |
| Public sector strikes on 14:46 - Jun 22 by factual_blue |
The railways aren't (regrettably) in the public sector.
And why shouldn't union members want a bigger share of the cake of capitalism? |
When they are being supported to the tune of £12 billion a year by the state they are public sector workers. When the price rises in fares are being used to pay ridiculous salaries it is clearly holding back the required improvements in efficiency. Outdated working practices also need to be done away with to access improvement in the future services being offered. It is surely time to realise that 18th century working conditions no longer exist and that unions should start to come back to reality and bring their attitudes up to date. | |
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