| Post-Brexit isolation 12:08 - Jul 17 with 2613 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
Is it just me who feels a real feeling of 'isolation' since Brexit?
Whenever I meet someone from the EU I feel jealous that they are still a member of something that I didn't want to be apart from, and like I am no longer in the 'in club'.
Instead of being an EU citizen I am now unfortunately* just a Britsh citizen, and seeing as Britain is f****d on so many levels this makes me sad. I can't think of a single reason that I'd prefer to be the latter. I feel no affinity to this country whatsoever and would trade citizenship in a second.
I've even thought about options such as moving to Ireland for 5 years in order to be able to claim citizenship, but then you lose it again if you leave.
Pointless rant over but just wondering if anyone else feels similarly.
* I know I'm somewhat lucky to be British, but I still hate what it has become, feel embarrassed by the state of it, and not one single shred of anything resembling pride. |  |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 20:22 - Jul 17 with 844 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 20:19 - Jul 17 by nodge_blue |
To take your mind off it worry about global warming, war in Ukraine and possibly widening, rampant inflation and can't afford to heat your home this winter and COVID that is still going strong.
You'll soon forget about being in a club. |
That's the spirit. There is always someone worse off than us. |  |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 20:54 - Jul 17 with 818 views | EddyJ |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 20:13 - Jul 17 by Nthsuffolkblue |
What makes you assert that "we are the country of choice for the world"?
I love a lot about this country but immigration is probably lower here than the vast majority of other countries in the world. We quite clearly are not "the country of choice for the world". Sadly our xenophobic isolationalism is making that worse too.
If only the leave campaigns lies that "we are the country of choice for the world" were true. |
The data is out there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate
We are 29th on the list, so we take a large proportion of migrants in. We would be higher if you excluded tiny countries like Jersey and Guernsey.
Looking at comparable "western" countries, only Austria, Canada, Germany, Australia, Switzerland, Norway, Ireland, Belgium and Sweden are ahead of us. Many of these have had politically motivated migration programmes (Australia have deliberately grown their population with large waves of immigration. Merkel made a point of taking a lot of Syrian refugees into Germany).
We are clearly a very attractive destination for migrants and we should be proud of that. Brexit may not be to every person's taste. We may have a corrupt, self-serving government. We may have stalling growth, a high cost of living, a fuel crisis. But every other country in the world has problems too. Usually much bigger problems than these. We remain a relative beacon of decency across the world that others respect and want to emulate. All of this "ashamed to be British" crap is just virtue signalling rubbish. |  | | |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:03 - Jul 17 with 805 views | jeera |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 20:54 - Jul 17 by EddyJ |
The data is out there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate
We are 29th on the list, so we take a large proportion of migrants in. We would be higher if you excluded tiny countries like Jersey and Guernsey.
Looking at comparable "western" countries, only Austria, Canada, Germany, Australia, Switzerland, Norway, Ireland, Belgium and Sweden are ahead of us. Many of these have had politically motivated migration programmes (Australia have deliberately grown their population with large waves of immigration. Merkel made a point of taking a lot of Syrian refugees into Germany).
We are clearly a very attractive destination for migrants and we should be proud of that. Brexit may not be to every person's taste. We may have a corrupt, self-serving government. We may have stalling growth, a high cost of living, a fuel crisis. But every other country in the world has problems too. Usually much bigger problems than these. We remain a relative beacon of decency across the world that others respect and want to emulate. All of this "ashamed to be British" crap is just virtue signalling rubbish. |
Where's this "ashamed to be British crap" if I may ask?
Are you referring to a specific group somewhere or chucking in a bit of stereotyping of your own there? [Post edited 17 Jul 2022 21:04]
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:12 - Jul 17 with 797 views | EddyJ |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:03 - Jul 17 by jeera |
Where's this "ashamed to be British crap" if I may ask?
Are you referring to a specific group somewhere or chucking in a bit of stereotyping of your own there? [Post edited 17 Jul 2022 21:04]
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This thread is full of people making us sound like North Korea.
"xenophobic isolation"
"made us a standing joke almost everywhere on earth."
I see this sentiment a lot, which prompted my post. In Britain, we seem desperate to put ourselves down. I'm not saying we need to be flag-wavingly jingoistic, that we shouldn't accept our mistakes and the mistakes of our government or that we shouldn't own the consequences of our empire. But we need to be real that we are one of the most democratic, egalitarian countries in the world. We are very lucky to live here and a great many people aspire to either move here or for their country to be half as democratic and egalitarian as ours. | | | |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:13 - Jul 17 with 794 views | Trequartista |
Not in the slightest. I regret we are no longer in a trading block, but I only feel English or British and am proud of our culture. I feel no European identity and think all European countries should be proud of their own national identity. I don't feel embarrassed at all to be British. When you see mass shootings in the US or military coups and dictatorships elsewhere, we forget how fortunate we are to live here. |  |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:23 - Jul 17 with 773 views | jeera |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:12 - Jul 17 by EddyJ |
This thread is full of people making us sound like North Korea.
"xenophobic isolation"
"made us a standing joke almost everywhere on earth."
I see this sentiment a lot, which prompted my post. In Britain, we seem desperate to put ourselves down. I'm not saying we need to be flag-wavingly jingoistic, that we shouldn't accept our mistakes and the mistakes of our government or that we shouldn't own the consequences of our empire. But we need to be real that we are one of the most democratic, egalitarian countries in the world. We are very lucky to live here and a great many people aspire to either move here or for their country to be half as democratic and egalitarian as ours. |
"This thread is full of people making us sound like North Korea."
No it isn't. You're now guilty of the kind of emotive reactionary responses you're associating others with.
We are not lucky to live here. We are here because we're British. For those of us who are British, this is our country, we are the sodding country. It's not by some favour that we're here.
There's plenty of reason to be pissed off at how this country has been run and the way it has shown us up to the world recent years.
That is, at those who are entrusted to govern us and bloody well represent us on the world stage.
Do not confuse being ashamed of them as the same as being ashamed of ourselves. That's not remotely the same thing. I say I am English/British with the same sense of pride that anyone else does when they are away from home and I feel I have a personal responsibility to be the best representative I can be.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to be respected and wanting to show respect in return.
As I say, there's also nothing wrong with being angry at those cretins who drag us through the mud at every opportunity in their quest for power and personal gain.
*Edited again for poor grammar. I'm blaming the heat. [Post edited 17 Jul 2022 21:29]
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:28 - Jul 17 with 757 views | Swansea_Blue |
A feel a tiny bit of that for myself and the ease of opportunities denied my kids. But a lot of that in terms of work colleagues who’ve moved to back to Europe, former colleagues who’ve left because jobs have ended as there’s no continuation funding and European partners we’ve been forced to step away from. Years and years of collaborative work and partnerships nurtured, all pissed up the wall because of some ignorant twumps. |  |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:49 - Jul 17 with 732 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 20:54 - Jul 17 by EddyJ |
The data is out there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate
We are 29th on the list, so we take a large proportion of migrants in. We would be higher if you excluded tiny countries like Jersey and Guernsey.
Looking at comparable "western" countries, only Austria, Canada, Germany, Australia, Switzerland, Norway, Ireland, Belgium and Sweden are ahead of us. Many of these have had politically motivated migration programmes (Australia have deliberately grown their population with large waves of immigration. Merkel made a point of taking a lot of Syrian refugees into Germany).
We are clearly a very attractive destination for migrants and we should be proud of that. Brexit may not be to every person's taste. We may have a corrupt, self-serving government. We may have stalling growth, a high cost of living, a fuel crisis. But every other country in the world has problems too. Usually much bigger problems than these. We remain a relative beacon of decency across the world that others respect and want to emulate. All of this "ashamed to be British" crap is just virtue signalling rubbish. |
Tbf stealing wealth from around the globe is underrated. |  |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:50 - Jul 17 with 731 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:03 - Jul 17 by jeera |
Where's this "ashamed to be British crap" if I may ask?
Are you referring to a specific group somewhere or chucking in a bit of stereotyping of your own there? [Post edited 17 Jul 2022 21:04]
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Just me I think. | |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 22:34 - Jul 17 with 709 views | jeera |
Try not to hurt yourself.
There's nothing to consider. It's a nonsense statement which gets repeated in various guises by people who cannot get their head around the fact that disliking the establishment, or at least parts of it, is not anything to do with hating Britain or its people.
It is in fact the complete opposite.
It's not complicated. | |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 22:36 - Jul 17 with 708 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 20:54 - Jul 17 by EddyJ |
The data is out there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate
We are 29th on the list, so we take a large proportion of migrants in. We would be higher if you excluded tiny countries like Jersey and Guernsey.
Looking at comparable "western" countries, only Austria, Canada, Germany, Australia, Switzerland, Norway, Ireland, Belgium and Sweden are ahead of us. Many of these have had politically motivated migration programmes (Australia have deliberately grown their population with large waves of immigration. Merkel made a point of taking a lot of Syrian refugees into Germany).
We are clearly a very attractive destination for migrants and we should be proud of that. Brexit may not be to every person's taste. We may have a corrupt, self-serving government. We may have stalling growth, a high cost of living, a fuel crisis. But every other country in the world has problems too. Usually much bigger problems than these. We remain a relative beacon of decency across the world that others respect and want to emulate. All of this "ashamed to be British" crap is just virtue signalling rubbish. |
Leaving aside the argument of reliability of Wikipedia as a data source, joint 30th (you miscounted) and over 50% behind the top on the list is not the most attractive country in the world by a long shot. (The exact phrase was "we are the country of choice for the world") which is patently untrue.
A net migration rate of 4% for years that are all pre-Brexit does not mean "we take a large proportion of migrants in". | |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 23:48 - Jul 17 with 653 views | EddyJ |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 22:36 - Jul 17 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Leaving aside the argument of reliability of Wikipedia as a data source, joint 30th (you miscounted) and over 50% behind the top on the list is not the most attractive country in the world by a long shot. (The exact phrase was "we are the country of choice for the world") which is patently untrue.
A net migration rate of 4% for years that are all pre-Brexit does not mean "we take a large proportion of migrants in". |
Joint 30th (out of 200+ countries in the world) is also not "probably lower here than the vast majority of other countries in the world." Its towards the top of the list. Especially when you consider this list is "per capita" and many of the countries ahead of us are micro-states.
If you look at the numbers in absolute terms, rather than per capita, we are fifth in the world for accepting the most migrants. Of the four countries ahead of us, only Saudi Arabia and Germany have higher net migrants per capita. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country
Immigration has also gone up since Brexit, largely due to us taking in so many Hong Kong nationals and Ukrainians. ( https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/25/foreign-nationals-arrive-uk-year-bre
Whichever way you look at it, we are a very popular choice with migrants and we do take a large proportion in. [Post edited 17 Jul 2022 23:52]
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 00:03 - Jul 18 with 623 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 23:48 - Jul 17 by EddyJ |
Joint 30th (out of 200+ countries in the world) is also not "probably lower here than the vast majority of other countries in the world." Its towards the top of the list. Especially when you consider this list is "per capita" and many of the countries ahead of us are micro-states.
If you look at the numbers in absolute terms, rather than per capita, we are fifth in the world for accepting the most migrants. Of the four countries ahead of us, only Saudi Arabia and Germany have higher net migrants per capita. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country
Immigration has also gone up since Brexit, largely due to us taking in so many Hong Kong nationals and Ukrainians. ( https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/25/foreign-nationals-arrive-uk-year-bre
Whichever way you look at it, we are a very popular choice with migrants and we do take a large proportion in. [Post edited 17 Jul 2022 23:52]
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and yet, based on the same figures, Russia is an even more popular choice for migrants. Go figure. |  | | |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 00:05 - Jul 18 with 623 views | jeera |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 23:48 - Jul 17 by EddyJ |
Joint 30th (out of 200+ countries in the world) is also not "probably lower here than the vast majority of other countries in the world." Its towards the top of the list. Especially when you consider this list is "per capita" and many of the countries ahead of us are micro-states.
If you look at the numbers in absolute terms, rather than per capita, we are fifth in the world for accepting the most migrants. Of the four countries ahead of us, only Saudi Arabia and Germany have higher net migrants per capita. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country
Immigration has also gone up since Brexit, largely due to us taking in so many Hong Kong nationals and Ukrainians. ( https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/25/foreign-nationals-arrive-uk-year-bre
Whichever way you look at it, we are a very popular choice with migrants and we do take a large proportion in. [Post edited 17 Jul 2022 23:52]
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So you keep saying.
What's your actual point though?
That everyone else says we're like N. Korea even though no one has done anything of the sort?
You've posted some stuff from Wiki as though it somehow places you in the know and made a few things up about other people that they haven't said. That the UK is one of the higher takers isn't news to anyone and has been posted on here about a hundred times.
It seems this stuff is new to you and you assume it's news to everyone else so want to share it.
This, (whatever this is), is the equivalent of you just liking the sound of your own voice. | |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 01:18 - Jul 18 with 601 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 21:12 - Jul 17 by EddyJ |
This thread is full of people making us sound like North Korea.
"xenophobic isolation"
"made us a standing joke almost everywhere on earth."
I see this sentiment a lot, which prompted my post. In Britain, we seem desperate to put ourselves down. I'm not saying we need to be flag-wavingly jingoistic, that we shouldn't accept our mistakes and the mistakes of our government or that we shouldn't own the consequences of our empire. But we need to be real that we are one of the most democratic, egalitarian countries in the world. We are very lucky to live here and a great many people aspire to either move here or for their country to be half as democratic and egalitarian as ours. |
We are increasingly flag-wavingly jingoistic though, we don’t accept our mistakes and we don’t fully own the consequences of our empire. That’s what some of us have an issue with. Nothing wrong with being proud of your country, but when patriotism spills over into naked, self-deluded nationalism it can be a problem.
You’re also overplaying how much immigration we have. We’re not “the country of choice” - you proved that in the link you posted. And why would it be a problem even if we took in more immigrants? We’ve stacks of non-Brits at my work. They’re still people, irrespective of where they were born. | |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 05:30 - Jul 18 with 556 views | Wicksy |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 14:49 - Jul 17 by mylittletown |
No, I am with you.
I am just back from Portugal, where the people were, as ever, lovely and friendly, but all the time I was reminded that, for no obvious benefit, and with many known disadvantages, the UK walked away from an EU which had been socially, culturally and especially economically, hugely beneficial to us.
A foolish, childish and spiteful exit which has made us look very stupid, very dishonest and has made us a standing joke almost everywhere on earth. |
An excellent summary of exactly how I feel |  |
| The cars in the churchyard
Were shiny and German
Distinctly at odds with
The theme of the sermon |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 07:02 - Jul 18 with 514 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Talk to an American. It IS possible to find a worse (and more embarrassing) place to live | |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 07:16 - Jul 18 with 495 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 07:02 - Jul 18 by ElephantintheRoom |
Talk to an American. It IS possible to find a worse (and more embarrassing) place to live |
France? Where 41% of the electorate voted for an actual Nazi. |  |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 07:17 - Jul 18 with 496 views | EddyJ |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 00:05 - Jul 18 by jeera |
So you keep saying.
What's your actual point though?
That everyone else says we're like N. Korea even though no one has done anything of the sort?
You've posted some stuff from Wiki as though it somehow places you in the know and made a few things up about other people that they haven't said. That the UK is one of the higher takers isn't news to anyone and has been posted on here about a hundred times.
It seems this stuff is new to you and you assume it's news to everyone else so want to share it.
This, (whatever this is), is the equivalent of you just liking the sound of your own voice. |
What I've done is to use facts to disprove the argument that we are not an attractive destination for migrants. This clearly is news to some people as they were arguing the opposite (without any facts) earlier in the thread.
My actual point is that despite our problems, we are still one of the most attractive places to live in the world and we are lucky to live here. A certain group of people seem determined to make us sound like a "standing joke almost everywhere on earth". We are not.
[Post edited 18 Jul 2022 7:45]
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 08:10 - Jul 18 with 460 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 07:16 - Jul 18 by GlasgowBlue |
France? Where 41% of the electorate voted for an actual Nazi. |
Erm you mean the blonde populist who proposed no taxes for under 30s, A punch on the nose for EU bullies - and early retirement on a full state pension?
Even Corbyn had his believers | |
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| Post-Brexit isolation on 08:46 - Jul 18 with 432 views | Churchman |
| Post-Brexit isolation on 14:07 - Jul 17 by Guthrum |
For me, the mistake is thinking one must either love or hate one's country. I can feel a deep affection for the place, for most of the people, for the heritage and history, while recognising there are many things wrong, imperfect or simply not done as well as elsewhere. Some of the nation's past is a source of pride, some of shame (that's true of anywhere). There are other places I would be happy to live, but none I would prefer. |
This is about where I am.
I am English and proud to be so. There is plenty right with this country from the way it’s people respond so generously to crises in the world to its self deprecating sense of humour. There a gazillion things we need to do better, not least educate people.
A close friend of mine was born in this country as were her parents. She is part Sri Lankan, part Indian, part French, part English. A fascinating heritage yet she has, because of her skin colour, been told on more than one occasion to ‘go home’. How to you deal with breathtaking ignorance like that? Education is the only solution that I know.
It’s history is rich and fascinating. There are plenty of amazing things people from these islands have done from explorers to Bazalgette and beyond to the jet engine, vaccines and goodness knows what else. But of course, there’s a dark side too. Just like most other countries. Imagine being German of French? They’ve plenty of ugly stuff, but that’s hardly the fault of the French bloke I worked with or my German golfing chums.
The value of history and heritage is to learn from it. For me, there’s always been a certain ebb and flow to it. So in the 18c some 50k Huguenots fled to this country from France to escape persecution (and invented oxtail soup!). People from this country fled to America for the same reason after the Reformation. The Britons fled from the Saxons, the Saxons from the Vikings, Vikings from the Saxons, Saxons from the Normans and so it goes on.
People movement has been happening since the dawn of time for all sorts of reasons, including everybody’s ancestors.
So the things I like about this country: it’s heritage, variety, it’s wonderful countryside. Take a drive around Suffolk and tell me it’s not beautiful. Take a stroll up Snowdon and look across to Anglesey, the Peak District, the north east coast, Cotswolds, Devon and Cornwall etc etc. It’s variety and beauty is amazing. Get to know London. The most fascinating city in the world. Dynamic, historic, living. Most British people are kind, generous and helpful. The dregs are the ones that make the noise and the news - and go into politics.
The ‘EU club’? I don’t hold the notion that everything about it is wonderful. It isn’t. I still wish we were part of the EU and were trying to change it. It needed the U.K. and visa versa. But the optimist in me says that a new relationship will evolve when the mugs in government are gone because there is a mutual need and the UKs relationship with the rest of the world will change too. There are huge opportunities out there for people and after all, a country is only its people and everything goes in cycles.
Would I live anywhere else in the world? Most of you I’ve no doubt have seen much more of it than me, but I’ve seen a little. I’d spend spring through to early autumn here - nowhere better and the winter split between somewhere warm like the Canary Islands maybe Cyprus and the mountains. Possibly Utah Wasatch mountains or British Columbia. A truly beautiful place.
The daily rant is done. [Post edited 18 Jul 2022 8:48]
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