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Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 16:49 - Jul 25 by Darth_Koont
Do you really think Starmer will say one thing and do another thing in power? I saw some people recently suggesting he’ll re-enter the single market and he’s just ruling it out now to get elected. Personally, I think that’s deranged thinking.
Not least because I’ve never seen anything from the Labour Right that suggests they’ll do anything but take their turn at the same establishment trough. That’s the goal for these characters.
He's over-impersonating the Brown/ Blair "don't scare the horses" tactic from 1997 - "We'll stick by the tories' spending plans" - the world's a bit different (& the UK) and I think he/ they could be more (greenly) radical.
But, I haven't seen the focus groups data. You can't trust those shy tories!
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Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 17:11 - Jul 25 with 1057 views
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 17:02 - Jul 25 by XYZ
He's over-impersonating the Brown/ Blair "don't scare the horses" tactic from 1997 - "We'll stick by the tories' spending plans" - the world's a bit different (& the UK) and I think he/ they could be more (greenly) radical.
But, I haven't seen the focus groups data. You can't trust those shy tories!
I hope we can have more certainty before that.
Seeing them up close over the past half-dozen years, I just can’t escape the conclusion that far too many of these people are clueless and empty bar their fetish for political power, influence and money for its own sake.
By the way, I thought New Labour wasted the opportunity 13 years in power gave them and ultimately helped sow the seeds for where we are now and where we’re still heading as a country. People tend to look back on it with nostalgia (global economic upswings tend to do that anyway) but their light touch and conditional investment meant we had little to show from that period and rather gaps and cracks in our society and economy got worse overall.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 17:20 - Jul 25 with 1023 views
Lots of rhetoric, light in detail. Whilst he’s highlighted all the key issues, he hasn’t really said what policies he’d implement to drive economic growth (besides what sounds like a think-tank).
Surely rejoining the single market would bring the biggest boost…but he’s already ruled that out.
If you set out policies in detail, you're giving away the details the enemy need. You give the chance to pick holes in your plans, as well as nicking them.
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 17:20 - Jul 25 by factual_blue
If you set out policies in detail, you're giving away the details the enemy need. You give the chance to pick holes in your plans, as well as nicking them.
Sure. But this is a refusal to even set out a theme that goes against the Tory narrative of growth and successful businesses being the panacea for everything.
Labour *could* be defining the agenda rather than always waiting for someone else to tell them what their position is.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 17:37 - Jul 25 with 985 views
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 16:20 - Jul 25 by jeera
Speaking as someone who generally agrees with you I don't understand what it is you're calling for right now.
No one here is going to see it in their interests to vote for the SNP, for example, so who would you suggest?
There's no leadership contest in the Labour camp so it's not like there's a choice on offer.
I feel let down by Starmer so far and agree about standing by one's principles and getting elected by those principles. Trouble is, the majority of the public don't seem to give a sh1t about principles anyway.
He generally doesnt know either.
Some sort of hard socialist / anarchist utopia which is entirely unrealistic and vague.
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Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 17:44 - Jul 25 with 973 views
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 17:15 - Jul 25 by Darth_Koont
I hope we can have more certainty before that.
Seeing them up close over the past half-dozen years, I just can’t escape the conclusion that far too many of these people are clueless and empty bar their fetish for political power, influence and money for its own sake.
By the way, I thought New Labour wasted the opportunity 13 years in power gave them and ultimately helped sow the seeds for where we are now and where we’re still heading as a country. People tend to look back on it with nostalgia (global economic upswings tend to do that anyway) but their light touch and conditional investment meant we had little to show from that period and rather gaps and cracks in our society and economy got worse overall.
Yes, the New Labour years were, largely, wasted, although some legacies remain (eg minimum wage).
Three things sunk the New Labour "project" IMO.
The Iraq war, the 2008 crash and the failure to defend their record and to attack the tories' ideologically driven austerity agenda.
Brown's vanity could be added into the mix - he should have accepted being the intellectual foundation and realised he didn't have the "frontman" skills to be PM/ lead the party.
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Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 18:18 - Jul 25 with 930 views
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 17:54 - Jul 25 by XYZ
Yes, the New Labour years were, largely, wasted, although some legacies remain (eg minimum wage).
Three things sunk the New Labour "project" IMO.
The Iraq war, the 2008 crash and the failure to defend their record and to attack the tories' ideologically driven austerity agenda.
Brown's vanity could be added into the mix - he should have accepted being the intellectual foundation and realised he didn't have the "frontman" skills to be PM/ lead the party.
Indeed. In 13 years there were clearly good things too. But the whole Iraq saga (before, during and afterwards without taking any responsibility) was a low point in modern British history.
And the major issues affecting all society and the economy were also generally ignored or insufficiently tweaked. Brown to his credit has admitted since that they should have done more about structural and regional issues with the economy and society but you have to wonder where their heads were in power if they thought that Maggie’s free market excesses could then be solved ... by more of the market. That’s where serious government policy and investment comes in.
The problem is that there is such a neoliberal and establishment-serving consensus in our pure establishment politics that Labour justified their spending on the basis of economic growth but didn’t move the dial on borrowing to invest in the long-term future and address structural issues that would make the economy healthier in the long term. Along with transport, housing, health and education etc these are the building blocks for a stronger economy so it’s @rse about face to promote the idea that we can only spend when we first generate more growth.
That simplistic thinking meant Labour were also pro-austerity. In 13 years they had the opportunity to step away from all the magic money tree and UK as a household economy rubbish. And they didn’t just fail dismally at that they actually cemented the narrative. And that’s cost many thousands of lives and caused unnecessary suffering for millions.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 18:20 - Jul 25 with 927 views
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 17:44 - Jul 25 by Darth_Koont
Yeah like Scandinavia or even something approaching the Netherlands or Germany.
But you’re right. That’s effectively Narnia for most people in the UK.
Come on Darth, there's too many poor and uneducated people in England for that to work. What you need is more food banks so that the rich can enjoy their hard earned.
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 18:20 - Jul 25 by noggin
Come on Darth, there's too many poor and uneducated people in England for that to work. What you need is more food banks so that the rich can enjoy their hard earned.
True.
And really warms my cockles to see so much charity nowadays. With ordinary people giving their time and money to feed, clothe and house others because the government and various employers haven’t got the time to be distracted from their mission of putting money in their own pockets.
Why would we change something that’s working so well?
Pronouns: He/Him
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Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 18:49 - Jul 25 with 885 views
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 16:01 - Jul 25 by Darth_Koont
That’s just 1 of the 10 broken pledges.
Saying one thing and then saying the opposite on the full range of issues is definitely Johnson-level stuff.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2022 16:01]
I must admit I read this change from Starmer and felt that I am now in full agreement with you. If this is what Starmer feels is necessary to gain power then it is worrying. Labour has to stand for something left of centre. When it moves right of centre we are in trouble. Although, perhaps the LibDems could fill the void. I don't suppose they support nationalisation of public services do they?
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 18:49 - Jul 25 by Nthsuffolkblue
I must admit I read this change from Starmer and felt that I am now in full agreement with you. If this is what Starmer feels is necessary to gain power then it is worrying. Labour has to stand for something left of centre. When it moves right of centre we are in trouble. Although, perhaps the LibDems could fill the void. I don't suppose they support nationalisation of public services do they?
The Greens have a lot of things people want to see, but I’m not sure they stand for full nationalisation.
Seems as good a thread as any to post this here. Beautiful to see it all laid out for Starmer and with such righteous fury too.
Probably unlikely to be covered by the mainstream media as all of this will be literally news to most of their audiences given the lack of coverage so far.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 19:09 - Jul 25 with 853 views
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 18:59 - Jul 25 by Swansea_Blue
The Greens have a lot of things people want to see, but I’m not sure they stand for full nationalisation.
Indeed. Plus my gut feeling is that the Green Party is much further from the possibility of gaining power than the LibDems (who are far enough from it anyway). Maybe, if they can get through to people that Brexit is what has caused their foreign holiday to start with a long delay at customs, and stand on a rejoin platform, they might possibly be electable.
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 17:45 - Jul 25 by tractordownsouth
Seemed like a bit of a comms change on this today. Water and energy won’t be publicly owned but railway nationalisation is still Labour policy.
All I can see is that the leadership have said much of the railway is already nationalised and it would stay as is with a Labour government. That's a pretty disingenuous way to claim to have a rail nationalisation policy. Still, I guess we should be thankful they aren't perusing more privatisation as with other areas.
As for Darth's video, Liverpudlians would have every right to boot Starmer as far away from Merseyside as they could.
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Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 20:15 - Jul 25 with 804 views
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 19:05 - Jul 25 by Darth_Koont
Seems as good a thread as any to post this here. Beautiful to see it all laid out for Starmer and with such righteous fury too.
Probably unlikely to be covered by the mainstream media as all of this will be literally news to most of their audiences given the lack of coverage so far.
Imagine being this keen to put the boot into a Labour leader when when we have an actual far right government in power.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2022 21:02]
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Looks like Labour has dropped plans to nationilise rail, water and energy. on 19:05 - Jul 25 by Darth_Koont
Seems as good a thread as any to post this here. Beautiful to see it all laid out for Starmer and with such righteous fury too.
Probably unlikely to be covered by the mainstream media as all of this will be literally news to most of their audiences given the lack of coverage so far.
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