| Simpson to Huddersfield 19:21 - Aug 20 with 9052 views | UppaTowen78 |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 00:31 - Aug 21 with 2347 views | ITFCBlues |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 19:30 - Aug 20 by Churchman |
And a decent sell on, should he make the grade.
I get the impression MA is not as easy to mug off as Evans. |
Really? MA has let Gibbs walk away to Norwich for what, 500k?
Completely mugged off and probably eclipses any bad deal that Evans has done. |  |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 07:15 - Aug 21 with 2223 views | Churchman |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 00:31 - Aug 21 by ITFCBlues |
Really? MA has let Gibbs walk away to Norwich for what, 500k?
Completely mugged off and probably eclipses any bad deal that Evans has done. |
My understanding was that the club had little choice or leverage over Gibbs. He was 18 years old and out of contract. Perhaps Phil can clarify.
Evans’ deals: Jordan Rhodes? [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 7:22]
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:04 - Aug 21 with 2170 views | TractorTom5 |
Good luck Ty | | | |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:30 - Aug 21 with 2129 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 00:31 - Aug 21 by ITFCBlues |
Really? MA has let Gibbs walk away to Norwich for what, 500k?
Completely mugged off and probably eclipses any bad deal that Evans has done. |
Phil described that situation the other day, you can’t lay all the blame at Ashtons door for a deal that was being spoken about the previous September/October when Evans was still in charge. |  |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:32 - Aug 21 with 2117 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 21:07 - Aug 20 by Swansea_Blue |
That’s him finished. I can’t imagine any developing striker who’s failed to nail down a first team place making it at Huddersfield! |
Not sure. I suspect he’ll initially go in to their ‘B’ squad. They signed a number of players last summer for their ‘B’ side, all who within a month or 2 became key players in a side which finished in the play offs. | |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:35 - Aug 21 with 2106 views | ITFCBlues |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 07:15 - Aug 21 by Churchman |
My understanding was that the club had little choice or leverage over Gibbs. He was 18 years old and out of contract. Perhaps Phil can clarify.
Evans’ deals: Jordan Rhodes? [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 7:22]
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Nope. He wanted to stay but we wouldn't pay him a few hundred quid more. Similar to what's happened here you'd assume, offering poor contracts.
Chirewa in the U23s appears to be heading the same way. | |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:38 - Aug 21 with 2099 views | ITFCBlues |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:30 - Aug 21 by Kieran_Knows |
Phil described that situation the other day, you can’t lay all the blame at Ashtons door for a deal that was being spoken about the previous September/October when Evans was still in charge. |
Surely it's Ashtons job to discuss these things with others with more knowledge within the academy rather than just accepting what now appears to be a nominal fee?
Was the best player in the youth cup semi-final run. We don't appear to have learnt much either, Simpson off now and Chirewa still not signed a new deal in the U23s. | |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:43 - Aug 21 with 2084 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 21:07 - Aug 20 by Swansea_Blue |
That’s him finished. I can’t imagine any developing striker who’s failed to nail down a first team place making it at Huddersfield! |
Well Gibbs has nailed down a starting place at Norwich more quickly than he would have here. | | | |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:49 - Aug 21 with 2058 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:38 - Aug 21 by ITFCBlues |
Surely it's Ashtons job to discuss these things with others with more knowledge within the academy rather than just accepting what now appears to be a nominal fee?
Was the best player in the youth cup semi-final run. We don't appear to have learnt much either, Simpson off now and Chirewa still not signed a new deal in the U23s. |
But how can the blame be laid at his door when a new deal was being discussed 6 months previous, with a completely different owner?
I’m not saying Ashton isn’t blameless, but clearly Evans could’ve, and should’ve sorted that deal months earlier. | |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 09:03 - Aug 21 with 2022 views | Churchman |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:38 - Aug 21 by ITFCBlues |
Surely it's Ashtons job to discuss these things with others with more knowledge within the academy rather than just accepting what now appears to be a nominal fee?
Was the best player in the youth cup semi-final run. We don't appear to have learnt much either, Simpson off now and Chirewa still not signed a new deal in the U23s. |
Ashton joined the club 1st June. Gibbs’ contract had run out. What exactly was he supposed to do? Prioritise an 18 year old with a big pay rise and a promise of first team football over getting enough players in to start the season?
Gibbs was done. As for young player wanting x or y, that’s up to them. Some will make the grade, most will not. It’s no good a club paying the earth for all its young players while stuck in L1 with no facilities or footprint even in its own county. Dyer and Lee summarised the state of it 12 months ago.
The club is clearly trying to do something about all these things, but the structure is geared towards the bigger clubs. And while we are in L1, Norwich and Huddersfield are just that.
The current rules around academies and the ease players can be poached is the problem. The discussion with Ashton should be about how he sees youth football going forward. Important or a token? Brentford or Norwich?
He doesn’t see the point in Cat 1. I don’t agree, but don’t know enough about it. What I do know is that while we are in this pitiful league with garbage facilities, we have no leverage or attraction. Hopefully that’s changing.
As for Simpson, he may make the grade. Looking at JJs goal yesterday, Simpson looks a long way short of that level - but it was only a glimpse. Time will tell. Maybe in 12 months time Simpson will be the new Lukaku. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 9:04]
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 10:11 - Aug 21 with 1933 views | Dennyx4 |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 08:38 - Aug 21 by ITFCBlues |
Surely it's Ashtons job to discuss these things with others with more knowledge within the academy rather than just accepting what now appears to be a nominal fee?
Was the best player in the youth cup semi-final run. We don't appear to have learnt much either, Simpson off now and Chirewa still not signed a new deal in the U23s. |
Unfortunately, we were not in a great position on this, when Ashton came in.
Gibbs had already spoken to other clubs, as was his right to do - not under contract. Other clubs higher up the pyramid, can easily pay more than we can for potential, it is not a big gamble for them.
We either negotiate a fee with Norwich or accept what a tribunal states is the right fee (between a rock and a hard place) - hopefully there is a reasonable sell on fee, if Gibbs is sold.
The contract should have been sorted a year earlier, but as always with Evans, he never learnt from the mistakes of contracts running down. |  | | |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 10:41 - Aug 21 with 1876 views | Guthrum |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 09:03 - Aug 21 by Churchman |
Ashton joined the club 1st June. Gibbs’ contract had run out. What exactly was he supposed to do? Prioritise an 18 year old with a big pay rise and a promise of first team football over getting enough players in to start the season?
Gibbs was done. As for young player wanting x or y, that’s up to them. Some will make the grade, most will not. It’s no good a club paying the earth for all its young players while stuck in L1 with no facilities or footprint even in its own county. Dyer and Lee summarised the state of it 12 months ago.
The club is clearly trying to do something about all these things, but the structure is geared towards the bigger clubs. And while we are in L1, Norwich and Huddersfield are just that.
The current rules around academies and the ease players can be poached is the problem. The discussion with Ashton should be about how he sees youth football going forward. Important or a token? Brentford or Norwich?
He doesn’t see the point in Cat 1. I don’t agree, but don’t know enough about it. What I do know is that while we are in this pitiful league with garbage facilities, we have no leverage or attraction. Hopefully that’s changing.
As for Simpson, he may make the grade. Looking at JJs goal yesterday, Simpson looks a long way short of that level - but it was only a glimpse. Time will tell. Maybe in 12 months time Simpson will be the new Lukaku. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 9:04]
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I think the chances of us being awarded Cat1 status in the Championship are slim, in League One, nil. Better to pursue a route we think produces results, rather than wasting time and money on jumping through hoops, only to be turned down (again). |  |
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| Am I the only one that thinks..... on 10:53 - Aug 21 with 1837 views | Wakh |
| Am I the only one that thinks..... on 22:17 - Aug 20 by Zapers |
How on earth does that warrant a downvote? It’s true, something seems very strange. |
I am not the one who down voted but why cannot he not receive one?
We have the advantage of having known Tyreece for many years now - we decided to do what we think is best for us for whatever reason.
Huddersfield are are taking a gamble that may or may not work out. If it does it may be because he knows its his last chance and that may not have been the case here.
There is speculation about how long that Huddersfield deal has been on the table and Tyreece's agent - It is what it is. Every club has released talent and regretted it anyway. I am sure we have plenty more
Good luck to Tyreece i hope it works out for him, we can't gamble when we need to escape this league. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 10:58]
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 11:33 - Aug 21 with 1785 views | Churchman |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 10:41 - Aug 21 by Guthrum |
I think the chances of us being awarded Cat1 status in the Championship are slim, in League One, nil. Better to pursue a route we think produces results, rather than wasting time and money on jumping through hoops, only to be turned down (again). |
Do you think a serious attempt was made for Cat 1? There was this we only failed by 1% or something, but surely if you are serious you make sure you are well over the required level - whatever that might be. I took it at the time as Evans spin, but I might have been wrong.
Certainly what came out after Evans went suggest the Academy was allowed to rot in the same way the rest of the club was. Maybe we are still reaping the rewards of that neglect.
I do think you are right though - pursue the route that they think gets us the best results. Hopefully that’ll get us up the leagues and we can then develop the yoof side properly. | | | |
| Simpson to Huddersfield & Jackson too ! on 11:36 - Aug 21 with 1779 views | AndoverFist |
Huddersfield are also allegedly after Kayden Jackson as well ……. | |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 11:48 - Aug 21 with 1759 views | MattinLondon |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 11:33 - Aug 21 by Churchman |
Do you think a serious attempt was made for Cat 1? There was this we only failed by 1% or something, but surely if you are serious you make sure you are well over the required level - whatever that might be. I took it at the time as Evans spin, but I might have been wrong.
Certainly what came out after Evans went suggest the Academy was allowed to rot in the same way the rest of the club was. Maybe we are still reaping the rewards of that neglect.
I do think you are right though - pursue the route that they think gets us the best results. Hopefully that’ll get us up the leagues and we can then develop the yoof side properly. |
Yes, a serious attempt at Cat 1 was made - the PL seemed to make the rules up as they went along to prevent non-PL from gaining it. Think we missed out due to not having the right I.T systems in place. |  | | |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 12:07 - Aug 21 with 1700 views | jayessess |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 09:03 - Aug 21 by Churchman |
Ashton joined the club 1st June. Gibbs’ contract had run out. What exactly was he supposed to do? Prioritise an 18 year old with a big pay rise and a promise of first team football over getting enough players in to start the season?
Gibbs was done. As for young player wanting x or y, that’s up to them. Some will make the grade, most will not. It’s no good a club paying the earth for all its young players while stuck in L1 with no facilities or footprint even in its own county. Dyer and Lee summarised the state of it 12 months ago.
The club is clearly trying to do something about all these things, but the structure is geared towards the bigger clubs. And while we are in L1, Norwich and Huddersfield are just that.
The current rules around academies and the ease players can be poached is the problem. The discussion with Ashton should be about how he sees youth football going forward. Important or a token? Brentford or Norwich?
He doesn’t see the point in Cat 1. I don’t agree, but don’t know enough about it. What I do know is that while we are in this pitiful league with garbage facilities, we have no leverage or attraction. Hopefully that’s changing.
As for Simpson, he may make the grade. Looking at JJs goal yesterday, Simpson looks a long way short of that level - but it was only a glimpse. Time will tell. Maybe in 12 months time Simpson will be the new Lukaku. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 9:04]
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Both Gibbs and Simpson we're talking about £200-300 extra a week rather than "paying the Earth".
Whilst EPPP makes it very difficult to keep the very best younger teenagers, I don't think keeping older ones is the insoluble problem it's presented as here. It's widely reported that Gibbs wanted to stay at Ipswich but we never negotiated our initial offer. I'm not sure why making more of an effort to keep the best player in one of the best youth teams in the country needed to be a long, time-consuming conversation and yes, it's obvious we should have prioritised it. It's only been 12 months and Gibbs is starting in centre midfield for a top side in the division above, that is a huge error on our part.
In each youth cohort we produce no more than 2 or 3 first team prospects that interest other clubs. The money we'd save by successfully playing hardball with their agents is absolute peanuts and the potential losses are tens of millions of pounds. By 18, we have a huge head start by having these kids in the building. They form attachments to the club, to the coaching staff, they get settled, we get to talk to them and persuade them and make them feel loved. With the good ones you have to press that advantage and if it means another £200 a week, then so be it. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 12:07]
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 12:21 - Aug 21 with 1656 views | Steve_M |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 12:07 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
Both Gibbs and Simpson we're talking about £200-300 extra a week rather than "paying the Earth".
Whilst EPPP makes it very difficult to keep the very best younger teenagers, I don't think keeping older ones is the insoluble problem it's presented as here. It's widely reported that Gibbs wanted to stay at Ipswich but we never negotiated our initial offer. I'm not sure why making more of an effort to keep the best player in one of the best youth teams in the country needed to be a long, time-consuming conversation and yes, it's obvious we should have prioritised it. It's only been 12 months and Gibbs is starting in centre midfield for a top side in the division above, that is a huge error on our part.
In each youth cohort we produce no more than 2 or 3 first team prospects that interest other clubs. The money we'd save by successfully playing hardball with their agents is absolute peanuts and the potential losses are tens of millions of pounds. By 18, we have a huge head start by having these kids in the building. They form attachments to the club, to the coaching staff, they get settled, we get to talk to them and persuade them and make them feel loved. With the good ones you have to press that advantage and if it means another £200 a week, then so be it. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 12:07]
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Yes, that we’ll have lost both Gibbs and Simpson for paltry amounts of money really doesn’t reflect well on the club. There may be blame elsewhere, and probably is in Simpson’s case but these are mistakes.
That so much else about ITFC is pointing In a much better direction doesn’t change that. |  |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 12:43 - Aug 21 with 1603 views | Churchman |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 12:07 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
Both Gibbs and Simpson we're talking about £200-300 extra a week rather than "paying the Earth".
Whilst EPPP makes it very difficult to keep the very best younger teenagers, I don't think keeping older ones is the insoluble problem it's presented as here. It's widely reported that Gibbs wanted to stay at Ipswich but we never negotiated our initial offer. I'm not sure why making more of an effort to keep the best player in one of the best youth teams in the country needed to be a long, time-consuming conversation and yes, it's obvious we should have prioritised it. It's only been 12 months and Gibbs is starting in centre midfield for a top side in the division above, that is a huge error on our part.
In each youth cohort we produce no more than 2 or 3 first team prospects that interest other clubs. The money we'd save by successfully playing hardball with their agents is absolute peanuts and the potential losses are tens of millions of pounds. By 18, we have a huge head start by having these kids in the building. They form attachments to the club, to the coaching staff, they get settled, we get to talk to them and persuade them and make them feel loved. With the good ones you have to press that advantage and if it means another £200 a week, then so be it. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 12:07]
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You say ‘the good ones’. At that age they’re all promising so if you offer another £1000 a month to one, surely you have to offer it to all. Where does it end? Do agents for 18 year olds run the finances /player budget or do the club?
Reading what Gibbs has said after his move, he left for more reasons than £800-£1000 a month and is pleased he did.
The last player we made any significant money from (in football terms) is Wickham. You have to ask the question about the value of academies now, as a number of clubs have done. I don’t know the maths but if all the costs of running the academy since the Wickham transfer are compared to what we’ve gained from Downes/Dozzell and a few others are we in profit or loss? Has it been worth it? I’d be interested to know. We are certainly in L1.
Of course I want the club to compete with its own players as it once did, but I don’t believe we’ve a chance of doing that, keeping players or getting reasonable fees for players until we are in the PL or at worst top of the Championship. | | | |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 14:39 - Aug 21 with 1500 views | ArnieM |
Oh the irony then, if ‘Uddersfield get relegated snd we get promoted! |  |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 15:33 - Aug 21 with 1431 views | jayessess |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 12:43 - Aug 21 by Churchman |
You say ‘the good ones’. At that age they’re all promising so if you offer another £1000 a month to one, surely you have to offer it to all. Where does it end? Do agents for 18 year olds run the finances /player budget or do the club?
Reading what Gibbs has said after his move, he left for more reasons than £800-£1000 a month and is pleased he did.
The last player we made any significant money from (in football terms) is Wickham. You have to ask the question about the value of academies now, as a number of clubs have done. I don’t know the maths but if all the costs of running the academy since the Wickham transfer are compared to what we’ve gained from Downes/Dozzell and a few others are we in profit or loss? Has it been worth it? I’d be interested to know. We are certainly in L1.
Of course I want the club to compete with its own players as it once did, but I don’t believe we’ve a chance of doing that, keeping players or getting reasonable fees for players until we are in the PL or at worst top of the Championship. |
They aren't all promising though, not in the sense that we have to fend off competition from other clubs. Not every kid we produce is the standout star in an FA Youth Cup run. Not every kid we produce hits double figures for an EFL club aged 19.
Of the kids currently in our academy the vast majority would jump at any contract extension we offered them at whatever wages, they just want the chance to stay in football. It isn't the case that because you've offered Liam Gibbs, the star player in your U18s, a wage increase, you have to offer the same to anyone else. Just like we won't be paying Hladky the same wage we're paying Walton. It's a meritocracy!
Footballers say all sorts of things after the fact to explain why they move clubs. Fact is, we gave Gibbs a decision to make by offering him an uncompetitive wage packet, then didn't revisit it until the final week of his contract, when we offered him the same wage. As it stands keeping Gibbs would likely have paid for his entire academy cohort on his own and then some. | |
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| Simpson to Huddersfield on 15:57 - Aug 21 with 1366 views | Churchman |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 15:33 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
They aren't all promising though, not in the sense that we have to fend off competition from other clubs. Not every kid we produce is the standout star in an FA Youth Cup run. Not every kid we produce hits double figures for an EFL club aged 19.
Of the kids currently in our academy the vast majority would jump at any contract extension we offered them at whatever wages, they just want the chance to stay in football. It isn't the case that because you've offered Liam Gibbs, the star player in your U18s, a wage increase, you have to offer the same to anyone else. Just like we won't be paying Hladky the same wage we're paying Walton. It's a meritocracy!
Footballers say all sorts of things after the fact to explain why they move clubs. Fact is, we gave Gibbs a decision to make by offering him an uncompetitive wage packet, then didn't revisit it until the final week of his contract, when we offered him the same wage. As it stands keeping Gibbs would likely have paid for his entire academy cohort on his own and then some. |
In your last paragraph you say ‘the fact is’. Is that all the facts? You may be right and it was money pure and simple but did the club confirm this or do we just accept the word of the player and his agent?
Despite playing lower level teams week in week out, we had a good cup run and you are making out that he carried the team on his back. Is that the case? If so why wasn’t he in the first team? Would Gibbs really have paid for his academy cohort?
Dean Bowditch was the best player I’d seen play for ITFC in years age 15 - 19. Nailed on. By his early 20s he was making a living in the lower leagues. There are no guarantees with players, especially when they are young.
I’d be interested to hear the club’s view on youth, young players, development, agents and pay etc. perhaps at the next supporter event Ashton, can be questioned about it. | | | |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 16:46 - Aug 21 with 1295 views | jayessess |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 15:57 - Aug 21 by Churchman |
In your last paragraph you say ‘the fact is’. Is that all the facts? You may be right and it was money pure and simple but did the club confirm this or do we just accept the word of the player and his agent?
Despite playing lower level teams week in week out, we had a good cup run and you are making out that he carried the team on his back. Is that the case? If so why wasn’t he in the first team? Would Gibbs really have paid for his academy cohort?
Dean Bowditch was the best player I’d seen play for ITFC in years age 15 - 19. Nailed on. By his early 20s he was making a living in the lower leagues. There are no guarantees with players, especially when they are young.
I’d be interested to hear the club’s view on youth, young players, development, agents and pay etc. perhaps at the next supporter event Ashton, can be questioned about it. |
What happened with Gibbs has been in a lot of TWTD's reporting and Phil and Joe on here have mentioned it on here a few times.
Gibbs debuted for our first team aged 17, he's starting for Norwich aged 18. What's a starting centre midfielder for one of the richest teams in the Championship worth when they've got their whole career ahead of them? One of the midfielders he's pushed down the pecking order onto their bench cost them £8m. That's just 12 months after he left.
There are no guarantees, but the certainty that you aren't going to benefit from your academy increases markedly if you keep losing any of the small minority of teenagers who are ready for league football. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 18:40]
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| [Redacted] on 17:30 - Aug 21 with 1212 views | victorywilhappen |
| Man management is ..... on 20:42 - Aug 20 by Bloots |
....just as much a part of Ashton's job as the financial side of it.
I just hope that falling out with players doesn't become a trend.
It's all very well standing up to agents, but if it's to the detriment of the club then even someone with an ego as (obviously) massive as him has to back down sometimes.
It may of course all turn out to be irrelevant, but I've got one of those feelings that I get.
In my water and not my balls.
Innit. [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 20:42]
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[Redacted] |  | | |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 17:41 - Aug 21 with 1165 views | Dennyx4 |
| Simpson to Huddersfield on 16:46 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
What happened with Gibbs has been in a lot of TWTD's reporting and Phil and Joe on here have mentioned it on here a few times.
Gibbs debuted for our first team aged 17, he's starting for Norwich aged 18. What's a starting centre midfielder for one of the richest teams in the Championship worth when they've got their whole career ahead of them? One of the midfielders he's pushed down the pecking order onto their bench cost them £8m. That's just 12 months after he left.
There are no guarantees, but the certainty that you aren't going to benefit from your academy increases markedly if you keep losing any of the small minority of teenagers who are ready for league football. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 18:40]
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For me your second paragraph is where we went wrong with Gibbs. If he was good enough to make our team in League One, a new contract should have been offered at that point, reflecting the potential, and ideally signed before being used & highlighting him to other clubs.
I do still think that once he had talked to other clubs, we were in a no win situation. We think an extra few £100 per week, would have kept him, I have my doubts. We dont know what went on in the meeting, but his head had already been turned.
I believe the Simpson situation is slightly different, in that we still had doubts on whether he could make the grade, when he went out on loan to Swindon. By the time we realised he may have some potential, again the player and his agent have already been talking to other clubs, higher up the pyramid.
The likes of Premier / Championship clubs can easily put extra funds onto a contract hoping that it works - It is a model a lot will use (Trying to recruit any player under 20 that has already played league / conference football). Should we have extended his contract before he went out on loan to Swindon, yes probably.
It is not always obvious to pick out the talent from a group, some develop later than others. In the past two years, you could include Simpson, Gibbs, Ndaba, Baggott, Humphreys, Chierwa. They are ones I am aware of following Ipswich, but not really watching youth games. | | | |
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