| Sportswashing 09:37 - Nov 23 with 2289 views | DJR |
The following passage is from the Human Rights Watch website.
Saudi Arabia spends billions of dollars hosting major entertainment, cultural, and sporting events as a deliberate strategy to deflect from the country’s image as a pervasive human rights violator. Scores of human rights activists and dissidents remain in prison or on trial for their peaceful criticism. Authorities failed to hold high-level officials accountable for suspected involvement in the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in 2018. Through 2021, the Saudi-led coalition continued a military campaign against the Houthi rebel group in Yemen that has included scores of unlawful airstrikes that have killed and wounded thousands of civilians.
Here is the latest Human Rights Watch Report which is every bit as bad as Qatar. Indeed, they have 6.3 million migrant workers to abuse, compared to Qatar's 2 million.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/saudi-arabia
I find it all rather galling but listening to the coverage after their victory over Argentina, the sportswashing is obviously doing the trick. But having western backing obviously helps the cause.
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| Sportswashing on 09:46 - Nov 23 with 2236 views | J2BLUE |
I found it incredibly odd that so many were celebrating their victory. |  |
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| Sportswashing on 09:47 - Nov 23 with 2225 views | BlueBadger |
| Sportswashing on 09:46 - Nov 23 by J2BLUE |
I found it incredibly odd that so many were celebrating their victory. |
A bit weird that wasn't it? Like being pleased that Newcastle had beaten Chelsea. |  |
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| Sportswashing on 09:51 - Nov 23 with 2213 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sportswashing on 09:46 - Nov 23 by J2BLUE |
I found it incredibly odd that so many were celebrating their victory. |
I think it was more a case of the underdog beating the big boys.
Do we know the players stance on the Saudi regime? Before our game against Iran I thought that they should be banned from the World Cup because if their appalling human rights record and the recent crackdown on protesters. Then I heard the brave words from the Iranian captain and understood that these players weren’t representing the despotic regime of Aidan, but the ordinary people of that country who have no say in how their government behaves.
As I said, I dint know if the Saudi captain or the players have spoke out or not and would never defend the Saudi regime. |  |
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| Sportswashing on 10:01 - Nov 23 with 2203 views | DJR |
| Sportswashing on 09:51 - Nov 23 by GlasgowBlue |
I think it was more a case of the underdog beating the big boys.
Do we know the players stance on the Saudi regime? Before our game against Iran I thought that they should be banned from the World Cup because if their appalling human rights record and the recent crackdown on protesters. Then I heard the brave words from the Iranian captain and understood that these players weren’t representing the despotic regime of Aidan, but the ordinary people of that country who have no say in how their government behaves.
As I said, I dint know if the Saudi captain or the players have spoke out or not and would never defend the Saudi regime. |
I don't know the answer to that, and I'm not necessarily calling for Saudi Arabia to be banned, just that we seem to have been very accommodating to the Saudi involvement in Newcastle, golf, boxing, motor racing etc which is really playing into the Saudi's hands.
But I agree the Iranian players' stance was admirable, and worth their team's presence.
EDIT: whilst I agree there is an element of the underdogs beating the big boys, it was very jarring for me to hear Gary Richardson's rather gushing interview on the Today Programme with the Saudi sports minister. I can't imagine the BBC doing the same for, say, the Chinese sports minister had it had a similar victory. Putting it another way, western foreign policy often plays a part in the media approach to these things. [Post edited 23 Nov 2022 10:15]
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| Sportswashing on 10:05 - Nov 23 with 2181 views | You_Bloo_Right |
Bread and circuses isn't it? And for all competing countries.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/united-kingdom
"The UK government pursues laws and policies with little regard for their impact on human rights. The government cut social security affecting millions despite clear warnings it would increase food insecurity, debt, and homelessness. The response to increased migrant boat crossings across the English Channel was draft legislation and proposed pushbacks at odds with refugee and human rights law. A landmark parliamentary oversight report found that existing social, economic, and health inequalities and failures in the UK government’s Covid-19 pandemic response led to disproportionately high death rates among people in institutions such as care homes, people with learning disabilities and autism, and Black and ethnic minority people. The government again failed to take meaningful steps to tackle institutional racism. Although the UK government worked in coalition with partners to call out human rights abuses on key issues, when weighed against other interests, it did not always prioritize human rights in its foreign policy agenda." |  |
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| Sportswashing on 10:19 - Nov 23 with 2159 views | DJR |
| Sportswashing on 10:05 - Nov 23 by You_Bloo_Right |
Bread and circuses isn't it? And for all competing countries.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/united-kingdom
"The UK government pursues laws and policies with little regard for their impact on human rights. The government cut social security affecting millions despite clear warnings it would increase food insecurity, debt, and homelessness. The response to increased migrant boat crossings across the English Channel was draft legislation and proposed pushbacks at odds with refugee and human rights law. A landmark parliamentary oversight report found that existing social, economic, and health inequalities and failures in the UK government’s Covid-19 pandemic response led to disproportionately high death rates among people in institutions such as care homes, people with learning disabilities and autism, and Black and ethnic minority people. The government again failed to take meaningful steps to tackle institutional racism. Although the UK government worked in coalition with partners to call out human rights abuses on key issues, when weighed against other interests, it did not always prioritize human rights in its foreign policy agenda." |
I think it is for this reason that banning countries from competing is not necessarily the way forward. But allowing certain countries to host major events is another thing. Having said that, in the case of things like the World Cup, these things are voted on by many countries, so we can't necessarily expect an outcome which pleases liberals. [Post edited 23 Nov 2022 11:36]
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| Sportswashing on 11:03 - Nov 23 with 2116 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Sportswashing on 09:46 - Nov 23 by J2BLUE |
I found it incredibly odd that so many were celebrating their victory. |
Footy fans like to support the underdog - unlike tennis fans for some reason.
On top of that, many people probably realise that those poor sods playing for KSA likely have little to nothing to do with the awful regime they live under. |  | | |
| Sportswashing on 11:12 - Nov 23 with 2085 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Sportswashing on 09:46 - Nov 23 by J2BLUE |
I found it incredibly odd that so many were celebrating their victory. |
A bit like how people were celebrating Iran beating the USA in the WC a few years back. That didn’t age well… |  | | |
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| Sportswashing on 11:35 - Nov 23 with 2057 views | Swansea_Blue |
It's the age old argument about the role of politics in sport. It was the same with apartheid, although a mch harder line was taken then. Normally it's a black and white 'ye' or 'no' answer to whether teams from despot regimes can compete, but that was blurred by the OC decision to allow Russian athletes to compete, but under a different name. A bit farcical that as it's Russia by proxy. But I digress.
It's a hard one. Sport can be a force for good, so there's a strong argument for using it to exert pressure on political causes. On the flip side sport it's also an escape for many from the consequences of politics and so I can also understand why many think politics should be kept out of sport. Ultimately, sport (at least at club level) is part of the community, so it's hard to divorce it from local political issues. Does that connection scale up to national level and justify political statements at the national team level? Maybe. |  |
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| Sportswashing on 11:48 - Nov 23 with 2019 views | bluelagos |
| Sportswashing on 11:35 - Nov 23 by Swansea_Blue |
It's the age old argument about the role of politics in sport. It was the same with apartheid, although a mch harder line was taken then. Normally it's a black and white 'ye' or 'no' answer to whether teams from despot regimes can compete, but that was blurred by the OC decision to allow Russian athletes to compete, but under a different name. A bit farcical that as it's Russia by proxy. But I digress.
It's a hard one. Sport can be a force for good, so there's a strong argument for using it to exert pressure on political causes. On the flip side sport it's also an escape for many from the consequences of politics and so I can also understand why many think politics should be kept out of sport. Ultimately, sport (at least at club level) is part of the community, so it's hard to divorce it from local political issues. Does that connection scale up to national level and justify political statements at the national team level? Maybe. |
Apartheid is an interesting one, especially as many politicians and sports men/women actively undermined attempts to boycott / isolate South Africa.
The one that really sticks in the mouth was the cricket tours of SA that Gatting / Gooch / Lever / Edmunds all went on, in stark contrast to Ian Botham who is on record as saying he was offered an "open cheque" to go but didn't largely out of loyalty to his West Indian team mates at Somerset.
Taking the money from a state like Apartheid South Africa, wonder if any of those who did so now regret doing so? |  |
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| Sportswashing on 17:20 - Nov 23 with 1925 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Sportswashing on 11:48 - Nov 23 by bluelagos |
Apartheid is an interesting one, especially as many politicians and sports men/women actively undermined attempts to boycott / isolate South Africa.
The one that really sticks in the mouth was the cricket tours of SA that Gatting / Gooch / Lever / Edmunds all went on, in stark contrast to Ian Botham who is on record as saying he was offered an "open cheque" to go but didn't largely out of loyalty to his West Indian team mates at Somerset.
Taking the money from a state like Apartheid South Africa, wonder if any of those who did so now regret doing so? |
Botham is nothing if not consistent. He still opposes freedom of movement and economic migrants.
That's a joke. He was definitely on the right side of history over the "Rebel Tours", and, as you say, credits Viv Richards with having educated him on race issues leaving him in no doubt as to what the right thing to do was. | | | |
| Sportswashing on 17:24 - Nov 23 with 1914 views | MattinLondon |
| Sportswashing on 11:12 - Nov 23 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
A bit like how people were celebrating Iran beating the USA in the WC a few years back. That didn’t age well… |
By a few years back you really mean 24 years ago. |  | | |
| Sportswashing on 14:03 - Nov 25 with 1741 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sportswashing on 09:46 - Nov 23 by J2BLUE |
I found it incredibly odd that so many were celebrating their victory. |
I think today's Iran victory against Wales is a good example of separating the state from the footballers.
Iran executes gay people. Iran is murdering its own citizens, whose only crime is to protest. Iran supplies bombs and rockets to various Islamic terrorist groups in the middle east. Iran is supplying drones to Russia, who are using them to murder innocent Ukrainian citizens. Iran promotes Holocaust denial. Iran tortures and murders journalists who speak out against the regime.
I was cheering on Iran today like no other team I have cheered before, other than Ipswich or England. | |
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| Sportswashing on 14:46 - Nov 25 with 1697 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I know you’re talking about Saudi Arabia here, but in Qatar’s case is this World Cup potentially one of the least succesful attempts at it ever?
I’d wager that before the World Cup was awarded to them a decent chunk of the population would have never heard of Qatar, let alone knew anything about the regime. As opposed to now where it’s been widely publicised. Obviously the countries profile has been raised but if the hope was to legitimise the regime it seems to have had the opposite effect - I’d wager that a family fortunes style survey of ‘things you know about Qatar’ would have dead migrant workers, no alcohol and anti-LGBT right at the top of the list
Admittedly this might be a UK-centric view but I believe press has been similar in Europe, particularly given other major nations were censored on the rainbow protest
FIFA haven’t come out any better, although no doubt any dissent towards them will quickly be forgotten once it’s all over |  |
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| Sportswashing on 15:50 - Nov 25 with 1629 views | itfc48 |
The migrant worker deaths thing goes far wider than Qatar and the Middle East - I decided to have a Google after the recent news stories. The numbers in China are pretty astounding and for a Western Country, America doesn't exactly come out well either. This has all been going on for years and it's a shame it's taken a football World Cup to highlight the true cost of cheap labour. | | | |
| Sportswashing on 17:36 - Nov 25 with 1586 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Sportswashing on 10:05 - Nov 23 by You_Bloo_Right |
Bread and circuses isn't it? And for all competing countries.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/united-kingdom
"The UK government pursues laws and policies with little regard for their impact on human rights. The government cut social security affecting millions despite clear warnings it would increase food insecurity, debt, and homelessness. The response to increased migrant boat crossings across the English Channel was draft legislation and proposed pushbacks at odds with refugee and human rights law. A landmark parliamentary oversight report found that existing social, economic, and health inequalities and failures in the UK government’s Covid-19 pandemic response led to disproportionately high death rates among people in institutions such as care homes, people with learning disabilities and autism, and Black and ethnic minority people. The government again failed to take meaningful steps to tackle institutional racism. Although the UK government worked in coalition with partners to call out human rights abuses on key issues, when weighed against other interests, it did not always prioritize human rights in its foreign policy agenda." |
There are countries that do not feature at all so presumably do not especially fall foul of humans rights. That the report is so damning of the UK says far more about the UK than any excusing of worse offenders (which I know wasn't your intention anyway).
Interestingly, even the EU has some criticism (nothing like as strong as the UK's). https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/european-union
EDIT: Other countries without a report include New Zealand and Uruguay. [Post edited 25 Nov 2022 17:41]
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