| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. 10:11 - Nov 23 with 2696 views | bluelagos |
That's all sorted then. |  |
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| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 15:17 - Nov 23 with 720 views | cbower |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 11:13 - Nov 23 by MattinLondon |
I don’t understand why they want another referendum. They lost the referendum a few years ago (and not by a small margin) and all of the posts since then have been not been in favour of independence.
Just seems that the dogma of independence clouds the minds of the SNP blinking their eyes to reality.
Saying that if I was Scottish, or live up there, I would probably want independence as well. |
Your last paragraph is all that needs to be said.
SNP would argue that Brexit vote moved the goalposts as the Scots voted to Remain. Ergo, another Referendum is needed. |  |
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| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 15:54 - Nov 23 with 689 views | giant_stow |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 11:46 - Nov 23 by J2BLUE |
Could still hold an unofficial one. Would be very interesting if the will of the people was to leave but the UK government was blocking it. |
Think the unionist side have said they'd boycott such a referendum, which would kill its legitimacy - hence Nicola's thing about treating the next Scottish parliament election as a stand-in ref instead (which would clearly be shoddy bollox too). [Post edited 23 Nov 2022 15:55]
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| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:01 - Nov 23 with 664 views | blueasfook |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 15:10 - Nov 23 by BlueNomad |
Interesting that so many in England wanted the end of one Union but not another. The outcome of the Brexit referendum gives fuel to the Scot's demands as there was a clear remain vote up there. |
So you accept the EU relationship was more like union than a trading partnership? |  |
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| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:02 - Nov 23 with 671 views | jeera |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 12:01 - Nov 23 by EdwardStone |
I think there many many English people who are utterly fed up with what the Tories have done to our fair land.
I don't really know any Indy /SNP supporters who are romantics, I think they are more Braveheart fans....furious and overwhelmed by the humiliations and suffering heaped upon them from Westminster. Maybe we mix in different circles.
Mel Gibson has much to answer for....... |
As there is with the Simpsons, there is Stewart Lee clip for almost everything and one that would slot in here, but I don't want to spoil the thread with frivolities. |  |
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| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:03 - Nov 23 with 669 views | SpruceMoose |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:02 - Nov 23 by jeera |
As there is with the Simpsons, there is Stewart Lee clip for almost everything and one that would slot in here, but I don't want to spoil the thread with frivolities. |
Um... sorry. Too late.
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:04 - Nov 23 with 666 views | XYZ |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 13:22 - Nov 23 by Bluedandy |
And you're basically using a childish rhetorical device, randomly linking the Daily Mail to smear an alternative perspective.
I'm saying that a significant section of the SNP voter base supported leaving the EU.
It's just a plain fact that you'd never hear from Sturgeon because Brexit is her justification for IndyRef2.
As I'm sure you're aware too, the result of the 2014 referendum was not legally conditional on the UK remaining part of the EU. |
36% for leave gives 64% to remain - almost 2/1 - that makes the SNP support firmly in the remain camp.
Your last paragraph is nonsense - the vote was to remain in the UK as then constituted and, as stated elsewhere, the No campaign stated that voting No was the only way Scotland could remain in the EU - it was part of the discourse.
The result of the 2016 referendum was, of course, only advisory. |  | | |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:06 - Nov 23 with 661 views | XYZ |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:01 - Nov 23 by blueasfook |
So you accept the EU relationship was more like union than a trading partnership? |
The clue is in the name "European Union".
Rights and responsibilities all set out in various treaties; not in Daily Mail hot takes. | | | |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:11 - Nov 23 with 654 views | jeera |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 13:33 - Nov 23 by DJR |
It wasn't me that reverted to the language that you used in your last paragraph which is hardly a balanced way to win an argument.
The 2014 referendum certainly wasn't legally conditional, but it was very much morally conditional given the way the EU argument was used by the pro-Unionists. |
Quite and it's entirely dishonest of the poster there to pretend anyone is saying otherwise.
The point is that the Scottish referendum was based on the status quo and on expectations that things would remain as they were.
With such a major shift in status that came with leaving the EU the goalposts had moved completely and thus in essence making the 2014 outcome void. | |
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| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:16 - Nov 23 with 648 views | Swansea_Blue |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 15:10 - Nov 23 by BlueNomad |
Interesting that so many in England wanted the end of one Union but not another. The outcome of the Brexit referendum gives fuel to the Scot's demands as there was a clear remain vote up there. |
Yep. I've never understood the irony of some Unionists using the sovereignty argument as justification for wanting Brexit, when the UK already had sovereignty, and yet they don't apply the same argument to Scotland, which doesn't have sovereignty. Selective sovereignty. 'We want what we've got, but we don't want others to have it'.
There's not much logic to it - just tribalism I suspect.
The other thing that's quite interesting is some of the examples of the historical propaganda used against independence claims for some of our former colonies that's floating around on Twittwot today. The arguments and language haven't changed one bit. Too small to go it alone (Malta). You'll be broke without us (Ireland), etc. |  |
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| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:21 - Nov 23 with 640 views | Swansea_Blue |
| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 16:11 - Nov 23 by jeera |
Quite and it's entirely dishonest of the poster there to pretend anyone is saying otherwise.
The point is that the Scottish referendum was based on the status quo and on expectations that things would remain as they were.
With such a major shift in status that came with leaving the EU the goalposts had moved completely and thus in essence making the 2014 outcome void. |
Disingenuous seems to be the word of the day around this. People making all sorts of claims that people have said something they haven't. It's obviously a touchy subject! | |
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| So the Scots need permission to hold an Indy ref. on 21:49 - Nov 23 with 594 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
It is a shame the EU gave the UK permission to hold a referendum on Brexit. |  |
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