| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? 20:10 - Jun 2 with 15546 views | cbower |
That's if we do sell him. He is still very young, is coming off a season of critical acclaim from fans, fellow players and managers and may well be someone we would look at were he not already our player. I appreciate he is currently behind Morsy, Luongo, Ball, Evans and probably also Humphreys and Camara. However, in two years time how much will Morsy and Luongo have left? Can Evans and Camara stay fit? Does Ball have enough to be first choice? Is Humphreys ready?
For me, El Miz might be where Jack Taylor is now in 12-18 months. Loan him out again and reassess this time next year, we effectively have 2 years more with the 12 month option on his contract.
Any thoughts? |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:17 - Jun 5 with 2881 views | jayessess |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:30 - Jun 5 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Of course we have to develop players but it's more nuanced than that and each one is its own decision.
I've given a very clear thought process as to why in this instance I think it makes sense to sell..
The flip side is yoh don't cash out, the last leg let's you down and you get nothing.
He's not going to be anywhere near our team in the next 2 years and hopefully after that we have progressed even further anyway.
All this hand wringing over selling a player that's not going to play for us |
On what are we basing the view that he has no chance of ever being good enough to play for us?
Surely not on the basis of 3 league starts?!
Swear half the argument we have about these players is just that some people believe that player development is a thing that happens sometimes and some people see a player once and form a un-moveable definitive opinion about their entire career trajectory. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 14:19]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:35 - Jun 5 with 2837 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:17 - Jun 5 by jayessess |
On what are we basing the view that he has no chance of ever being good enough to play for us?
Surely not on the basis of 3 league starts?!
Swear half the argument we have about these players is just that some people believe that player development is a thing that happens sometimes and some people see a player once and form a un-moveable definitive opinion about their entire career trajectory. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 14:19]
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I'm bassing it on the fact that very rarely does a player develop at a pace where they go from best play in 1 league to best player in the league above in a season and even more rarely do they go to playing regularly 2 divisons higher.
I'm also basing on the profile of players we have signed under GT and the profile of those we continue to sign.
In short I think and it's only my opinion , that our ambition s are loftier than his ceiling but ultimately its for the manager to decide and that's his job |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:59 - Jun 5 with 2816 views | jayessess |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:35 - Jun 5 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I'm bassing it on the fact that very rarely does a player develop at a pace where they go from best play in 1 league to best player in the league above in a season and even more rarely do they go to playing regularly 2 divisons higher.
I'm also basing on the profile of players we have signed under GT and the profile of those we continue to sign.
In short I think and it's only my opinion , that our ambition s are loftier than his ceiling but ultimately its for the manager to decide and that's his job |
This is basically what I mean though. "He played in League Two last season" isn't a basis for an opinion on his entire career trajectory.
Sam Morsy, Luke Woolfenden, Harry Clarke, Cameron Burgess, Wes Burns and Conor Chaplin were once League Two players and there are plenty of brilliant Championship players for whom the same is true.
Wouldn't it be better just to admit to ourselves that we've got sod all basis for a strong opinion on where these players' ceilings are? [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 15:02]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:27 - Jun 5 with 2797 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 08:40 - Jun 5 by itfcjoe |
I agree, the smartest transfer operators in football in the UK at the moment are Brighton - for a number of reasons.
One of the things they do really well is a 'buy to loan' model, where effectively they pick people up before they are ready, and push them through the leagues on loan until they are ready for them, or if they stall or they realise they won't hit the heights they sell them.
El Miz was basically the best midfielder in L2 last year, and has 2 years left on his contract - when I hear what the plans are this summer, and how ambitious we are going to be then I struggle to see how a few hundred thousand is going to be any sort of difference maker to these so we may as well try and get him into L1 and see if he can do the same there, and so on.
Relying on sell ons, because we've been a bit lucky in last few years with them is not the way to go - who would have thought Webster would go for so much money so quickly after he left, or that Mings would get that big Villa move when before that loan he was on his way out the door for basically nothing. They are just an insurance policy against making it, and far from a sure thing |
Spot on Joe. Exactly the points I've been making. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:37 - Jun 5 with 2789 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:30 - Jun 5 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Of course we have to develop players but it's more nuanced than that and each one is its own decision.
I've given a very clear thought process as to why in this instance I think it makes sense to sell..
The flip side is yoh don't cash out, the last leg let's you down and you get nothing.
He's not going to be anywhere near our team in the next 2 years and hopefully after that we have progressed even further anyway.
All this hand wringing over selling a player that's not going to play for us |
The point is we're not losing much if we hold on and he doesn't progress. As Joe says above, for a couple of hundred grand you might as well roll the dice on the best player in League 2. I'd like us to do that even if he wasn't our player already!
There's no hand wringing, it's just a discussion. I think most have said they'll be happy what the experts (McKenna and the coaches) decide. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:42 - Jun 5 with 2776 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:59 - Jun 5 by jayessess |
This is basically what I mean though. "He played in League Two last season" isn't a basis for an opinion on his entire career trajectory.
Sam Morsy, Luke Woolfenden, Harry Clarke, Cameron Burgess, Wes Burns and Conor Chaplin were once League Two players and there are plenty of brilliant Championship players for whom the same is true.
Wouldn't it be better just to admit to ourselves that we've got sod all basis for a strong opinion on where these players' ceilings are? [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 15:02]
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No it's not but it it is an indicator of where he will likenliley be over the next 2 to 3 years and as with all footballers those are the indicators that are used to make decisions.
Moreover that actually underlines one can really only take a decision based on what we know (I've always said either way is risk)
And what do we know.....
Will he play for us this season? No. Next season? Doubtful. So conclusions stable a player or sell now while there is clamour and we can utilise the money.
Anyway you look at it without the constant what if he turns into Messi questions sell seems the sensible decision. | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 19:36 - Jun 5 with 2704 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:42 - Jun 5 by BlueandTruesince82 |
No it's not but it it is an indicator of where he will likenliley be over the next 2 to 3 years and as with all footballers those are the indicators that are used to make decisions.
Moreover that actually underlines one can really only take a decision based on what we know (I've always said either way is risk)
And what do we know.....
Will he play for us this season? No. Next season? Doubtful. So conclusions stable a player or sell now while there is clamour and we can utilise the money.
Anyway you look at it without the constant what if he turns into Messi questions sell seems the sensible decision. |
"What if he turns into Messi?" said literally no-one, ever. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 19:57 - Jun 5 with 2665 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 19:36 - Jun 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"What if he turns into Messi?" said literally no-one, ever. |
That's the sentiment though. | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:01 - Jun 5 with 2641 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 19:57 - Jun 5 by BlueandTruesince82 |
That's the sentiment though. |
No, it's not. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:55 - Jun 5 with 2621 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:01 - Jun 5 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No, it's not. |
OK.....but it is.
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 13:37 - Jun 6 with 2517 views | jayessess |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:55 - Jun 5 by BlueandTruesince82 |
OK.....but it is.
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The sentiment is "maybe he becomes Sam Morsy or maybe even Flynn Downes". | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:28 - Jun 6 with 2493 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 13:37 - Jun 6 by jayessess |
The sentiment is "maybe he becomes Sam Morsy or maybe even Flynn Downes". |
Only we"ll looking for better than Morsy by that point or at least should be and it's unlikely he'll become Downes, we're comparing player that had established himself (in an all be it pretty shocking) Chapionship team before the age El Miz is now. Different ceilings.
That's OK when he signs for West Ham ilm take your intold you so with humor and grace | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:41 - Jun 6 with 2450 views | jayessess |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:28 - Jun 6 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Only we"ll looking for better than Morsy by that point or at least should be and it's unlikely he'll become Downes, we're comparing player that had established himself (in an all be it pretty shocking) Chapionship team before the age El Miz is now. Different ceilings.
That's OK when he signs for West Ham ilm take your intold you so with humor and grace |
If we could somehow arrange right now for us to get most of the peak years of Sam Morsy's career (for free!) I would absolutely take that in a heartbeat.
Could El Mizouni be a member of a Premier League squad one day? Watford presumably think so, if they're interested.
Regardless, nothing like your Messi thing at all. | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:38 - Jun 6 with 2417 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:41 - Jun 6 by jayessess |
If we could somehow arrange right now for us to get most of the peak years of Sam Morsy's career (for free!) I would absolutely take that in a heartbeat.
Could El Mizouni be a member of a Premier League squad one day? Watford presumably think so, if they're interested.
Regardless, nothing like your Messi thing at all. |
Well the Messi comparison was a little artistic license to make a point, didn't mean it quite that literally, I think you're being disingenuous there but perhaps I needed to add that disclaimer.
Morsy whilst having been absolutely fantastic for us has spent most of his career in L1 and bottom end of the championship, I'm not sure your ambition aligns with our ownership group. I actually think under Mckenna he has improved and would argue that his best years may well be ahead of him but none the less my point is that aspiring PL clubs are probably not in the market for high end L1/Lower end Championship players and so come the point he is at that level, I'd hope, as I'm sure our owners do, we might setting our sights a little higer.
As for Watford, have they bid any actual money yet? Even if they have if we're looking at Watford as our guide to how a football club should do its business then we're in trouble. This the club that has just seen the manager they sacked after 2 months in charge lead Luton to the promised land..
We don't know what Watford a thinking for all we know it could be they see El Miz as perfect for the players they really rate to practice against, Now to be clear, I am not saying that is case and use that only as an alternative example to show how we can't read Watfords mind.
Again, aside from blue tinted but what if who we sell him to sells him for more/what if he's as good as the players we have now which all being well are not as good as the players we hope to have in the future (which is how must surely cut our cloth), when you look at what we know, selling is perfectly viable option. That's not do to our current crop down, they have been and are wonderful but let's be honest just as we are stepping stones for them, they are stepping stones for us, that is football.
Again I'm not saying we must sell him, i really dont mind either way but I can't subscribe to this we must not sell him through fear of getting bitten on the arse hyperbole that seems to have afflicted some.
You've basically said I'd take a player that probably won't ever play for us for free.
Sure we may still be in the championship come a time when El Miz is a championship starter but the aim to be at least upper end of that and the ambition is to be higher and thag being the case surely it has to be the basis of the clubs decision making.
I'm sure the club will assess bids and decide if they tally with the value they put on him | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 00:13 - Jun 7 with 2355 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:38 - Jun 6 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Well the Messi comparison was a little artistic license to make a point, didn't mean it quite that literally, I think you're being disingenuous there but perhaps I needed to add that disclaimer.
Morsy whilst having been absolutely fantastic for us has spent most of his career in L1 and bottom end of the championship, I'm not sure your ambition aligns with our ownership group. I actually think under Mckenna he has improved and would argue that his best years may well be ahead of him but none the less my point is that aspiring PL clubs are probably not in the market for high end L1/Lower end Championship players and so come the point he is at that level, I'd hope, as I'm sure our owners do, we might setting our sights a little higer.
As for Watford, have they bid any actual money yet? Even if they have if we're looking at Watford as our guide to how a football club should do its business then we're in trouble. This the club that has just seen the manager they sacked after 2 months in charge lead Luton to the promised land..
We don't know what Watford a thinking for all we know it could be they see El Miz as perfect for the players they really rate to practice against, Now to be clear, I am not saying that is case and use that only as an alternative example to show how we can't read Watfords mind.
Again, aside from blue tinted but what if who we sell him to sells him for more/what if he's as good as the players we have now which all being well are not as good as the players we hope to have in the future (which is how must surely cut our cloth), when you look at what we know, selling is perfectly viable option. That's not do to our current crop down, they have been and are wonderful but let's be honest just as we are stepping stones for them, they are stepping stones for us, that is football.
Again I'm not saying we must sell him, i really dont mind either way but I can't subscribe to this we must not sell him through fear of getting bitten on the arse hyperbole that seems to have afflicted some.
You've basically said I'd take a player that probably won't ever play for us for free.
Sure we may still be in the championship come a time when El Miz is a championship starter but the aim to be at least upper end of that and the ambition is to be higher and thag being the case surely it has to be the basis of the clubs decision making.
I'm sure the club will assess bids and decide if they tally with the value they put on him |
The only hyperbole has come from you with your Messi comparison, which rather than making a point showed you were losing it.
Shall we get rid of all our young players who aren't ready yet and may never be prem players, seeing as that's where we aim to be? I mean, that is your logic taken to its conclusion isn't it? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 06:46 - Jun 7 with 2287 views | franz_tyson |
Everyone wants him to be a top player here, but no-one here can both say he won't be good enough or he'll make it based on the last couple of seasons. Its up to Mckenna and hs staff to make that call. But we have been guilty of keeping young players too long in the past... so put that into the mix. Maybe the best trade-off is a season long loan in L1... but does he want to be loaned out again? Could 500k be more worth to us now than him being a top player in 2-3 years time? |  | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 07:52 - Jun 7 with 2264 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 00:13 - Jun 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The only hyperbole has come from you with your Messi comparison, which rather than making a point showed you were losing it.
Shall we get rid of all our young players who aren't ready yet and may never be prem players, seeing as that's where we aim to be? I mean, that is your logic taken to its conclusion isn't it? |
Clearly sarcasm is lost on you.
AGIAN (Because again we're going round in circles becaues again you can only raise points that I ha e already addressed) any decision on any player has to be taken on its own merit. I think that was pretty clear above. | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 08:32 - Jun 7 with 2241 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 07:52 - Jun 7 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Clearly sarcasm is lost on you.
AGIAN (Because again we're going round in circles becaues again you can only raise points that I ha e already addressed) any decision on any player has to be taken on its own merit. I think that was pretty clear above. |
You said it was to make a point. Now you're saying it's sarcasm.
Either way it makes you look desperate because your argument's failing.
The thing is, you've been rambling on about him not being ready yet and we're aiming for the Prem, so get rid. Fair enough.
So if each player's taken on their own merit, which of our young players are ready/worth hanging onto for the Prem in your opinion?
And/or which others should be let go/sold because, like El Miz, you don't reckon they'll ever be good enough to keep up with the progress of ITFC? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 08:48 - Jun 7 with 2210 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 08:32 - Jun 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You said it was to make a point. Now you're saying it's sarcasm.
Either way it makes you look desperate because your argument's failing.
The thing is, you've been rambling on about him not being ready yet and we're aiming for the Prem, so get rid. Fair enough.
So if each player's taken on their own merit, which of our young players are ready/worth hanging onto for the Prem in your opinion?
And/or which others should be let go/sold because, like El Miz, you don't reckon they'll ever be good enough to keep up with the progress of ITFC? |
Yes sacracm to make a point. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.
My argument is clearly laid our, my working is shown and I have dealt with every point made. You haven't addressed a single point made above and are twisting yourself in knots failing to get anywhere other pretending to (or actually not, I'm.not sure which is worse) understand sarcasm
Your argument on the other hand remains we can't sell him becahes he might not be quite good enough to play for us one day or he might be worth a bit money than he is now even though it's only drop in the ocean so we don't care about money anyway.
Let's be clear Watford are now being used as justification for keeping a player that isn't going to play for us.
I have not at any point claimed to be an expert on all our youth players. The conversation is about El Miz and my reasoning is very clear and rather better thought out than maybe Watford want him so we'd better copy them. | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 10:32 - Jun 7 with 2168 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 08:48 - Jun 7 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Yes sacracm to make a point. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.
My argument is clearly laid our, my working is shown and I have dealt with every point made. You haven't addressed a single point made above and are twisting yourself in knots failing to get anywhere other pretending to (or actually not, I'm.not sure which is worse) understand sarcasm
Your argument on the other hand remains we can't sell him becahes he might not be quite good enough to play for us one day or he might be worth a bit money than he is now even though it's only drop in the ocean so we don't care about money anyway.
Let's be clear Watford are now being used as justification for keeping a player that isn't going to play for us.
I have not at any point claimed to be an expert on all our youth players. The conversation is about El Miz and my reasoning is very clear and rather better thought out than maybe Watford want him so we'd better copy them. |
I understand sarcasm thanks. You used it because your argument was running out of legs, everyone could see it.
What points haven't I addressed?
I think he isn't going to sell for a lot (in terms of how much Gamechanger can lay their hands on) now because he's only proven at League 2. So rather than sell cheaply, we may as well hang on and see if he develops further. I haven't mentioned Watford so you're only bringing them in as a straw man to blow over.
I also didn't ask you to be an expert on all our youth players. You've offered an opinion that if El Miz isn't good enough now we should get rid. Why can't you apply that same logic to other young players?
It's not because you're not an expert on them. You don't need to be an expert to see that most aren't ready, and most probably won't ever be Prem players. The reason you won't answer is because it shows up the flaw in your logic. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:02 - Jun 7 with 2137 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 10:32 - Jun 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I understand sarcasm thanks. You used it because your argument was running out of legs, everyone could see it.
What points haven't I addressed?
I think he isn't going to sell for a lot (in terms of how much Gamechanger can lay their hands on) now because he's only proven at League 2. So rather than sell cheaply, we may as well hang on and see if he develops further. I haven't mentioned Watford so you're only bringing them in as a straw man to blow over.
I also didn't ask you to be an expert on all our youth players. You've offered an opinion that if El Miz isn't good enough now we should get rid. Why can't you apply that same logic to other young players?
It's not because you're not an expert on them. You don't need to be an expert to see that most aren't ready, and most probably won't ever be Prem players. The reason you won't answer is because it shows up the flaw in your logic. |
No I was using scarasm to make a point becaue having made it several times earlier we are still going round in circles so I changed tack.
The only failed argument is yours. Your argument has been.
1. He might be nearly good enough to play for us in 3 years. I have dealt with this by pointing out that if our ambitions are higher than where we currently sit we wil therfore be looking at a better calibre of player.
2. He might worth a bit more. I have dealt with that by pointing out that this really only holds water if becomes worth ALOT more. Otherwise the rise in value I'd negligible IE just a drop in the ocean as you keep pointing out, so your argument is then at odds with itself.
3. That Watford maybe want to buy him. I have dealt with this by pointing out that Watford are a basket case of a club and if we are using them as a guide we are in trouble. This is one of the points you have chosen to ignore.
Further you are now trying to steer the debate away from what is actually about- EL Miz to a more a general discussion about youth players. Presumably becaues your argument has remined BUT WATFORD and it is that which is falling flat and so AGIAN (how many times have I had to repeat myself in this debate, clear sign that you have ignored many points raises) I'm not an expert on all youth players and so I can offer no insight but I am familiar enough with El Miz to offer my opinion which I have done so.
To your wider gotcha moment though, El Miz is not part of that youth set up any more, so it's moot so it does feel like an attempt to muddy the waters becaue But Watford hasn't really got you anywhere.
We know most young players are making up.the numbers to give those that are rated someone to practice against which is needed. El Miz is either part of the 1st team failing to make the bench, out on loan or sold so it 2 different conversations you are now trying to have as what applies to those youth players hasn't allowed to him for at least the last 12 months
So what have you offered
1. He might be good enough to nearly play for us 1 day.
2. He might be worth not that much more than he is now and you don't care about that anyway on account of all the money we have
3 BUT WATFORD
4. Yeah but you used sarcasm which was a little to nuanced for me so you must be wrong.
Finally you've then decided to try shouting you are losing the argument! instead of trying to engage in it having ignored my reasoning for why Watford isn't an argument at all and your earlier admission that profile of player you'd like us to sign one which has spent most of their career at Lower end championship/L1 level amongst other things.
Once again I have offered reason and addressed your points in response to yours which frankly is becoming more and more emotional and less and less reasoned so this I'd the last I shall say on the matter as again we are going round in circles
Again. When west ham pay 15 mil for him I will take your i told you so with good grace | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:07 - Jun 7 with 2131 views | itfcsuth |
The truth is you can regret any player you sell, and you won't be able to give a fair answer until later down the line.
Personally I would loan one more year, maybe even to Leyton Orient again in League 1.
12 months down the line at 23 he may well be a natural successor to a Sam Morsy or Mass Luongo who will both be 31/32 by then. |  | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:41 - Jun 7 with 2071 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:02 - Jun 7 by BlueandTruesince82 |
No I was using scarasm to make a point becaue having made it several times earlier we are still going round in circles so I changed tack.
The only failed argument is yours. Your argument has been.
1. He might be nearly good enough to play for us in 3 years. I have dealt with this by pointing out that if our ambitions are higher than where we currently sit we wil therfore be looking at a better calibre of player.
2. He might worth a bit more. I have dealt with that by pointing out that this really only holds water if becomes worth ALOT more. Otherwise the rise in value I'd negligible IE just a drop in the ocean as you keep pointing out, so your argument is then at odds with itself.
3. That Watford maybe want to buy him. I have dealt with this by pointing out that Watford are a basket case of a club and if we are using them as a guide we are in trouble. This is one of the points you have chosen to ignore.
Further you are now trying to steer the debate away from what is actually about- EL Miz to a more a general discussion about youth players. Presumably becaues your argument has remined BUT WATFORD and it is that which is falling flat and so AGIAN (how many times have I had to repeat myself in this debate, clear sign that you have ignored many points raises) I'm not an expert on all youth players and so I can offer no insight but I am familiar enough with El Miz to offer my opinion which I have done so.
To your wider gotcha moment though, El Miz is not part of that youth set up any more, so it's moot so it does feel like an attempt to muddy the waters becaue But Watford hasn't really got you anywhere.
We know most young players are making up.the numbers to give those that are rated someone to practice against which is needed. El Miz is either part of the 1st team failing to make the bench, out on loan or sold so it 2 different conversations you are now trying to have as what applies to those youth players hasn't allowed to him for at least the last 12 months
So what have you offered
1. He might be good enough to nearly play for us 1 day.
2. He might be worth not that much more than he is now and you don't care about that anyway on account of all the money we have
3 BUT WATFORD
4. Yeah but you used sarcasm which was a little to nuanced for me so you must be wrong.
Finally you've then decided to try shouting you are losing the argument! instead of trying to engage in it having ignored my reasoning for why Watford isn't an argument at all and your earlier admission that profile of player you'd like us to sign one which has spent most of their career at Lower end championship/L1 level amongst other things.
Once again I have offered reason and addressed your points in response to yours which frankly is becoming more and more emotional and less and less reasoned so this I'd the last I shall say on the matter as again we are going round in circles
Again. When west ham pay 15 mil for him I will take your i told you so with good grace |
Wowsers, you have lost the plot mate. Despite the fact that I haven't mentioned Watford, other than to tell you in my last post I haven't mentioned Watford, you've claimed FIVE TIMES in this rant that I've used them as an argument for why we should keep him.
1. I haven't put a time on when he might be good enough to play for us.
2. I haven't said he might be worth a bit more. But he'd definitely be worth a lot more if he performed well in League 1 as opposed to League 2.
I've not tried to steer the debate, just followed your logical conclusion - if a player's not ready for the first team now we should sell. That's your argument for El Miz, but you don't want to apply it to anyone else because it's obviously a daft argument.
So many straw men it's unbelievable. You're flailing all over the place fella, and missing every time. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:42 - Jun 7 with 2049 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:41 - Jun 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Wowsers, you have lost the plot mate. Despite the fact that I haven't mentioned Watford, other than to tell you in my last post I haven't mentioned Watford, you've claimed FIVE TIMES in this rant that I've used them as an argument for why we should keep him.
1. I haven't put a time on when he might be good enough to play for us.
2. I haven't said he might be worth a bit more. But he'd definitely be worth a lot more if he performed well in League 1 as opposed to League 2.
I've not tried to steer the debate, just followed your logical conclusion - if a player's not ready for the first team now we should sell. That's your argument for El Miz, but you don't want to apply it to anyone else because it's obviously a daft argument.
So many straw men it's unbelievable. You're flailing all over the place fella, and missing every time. |
Perhaps I'm confusing with Jay on the Watford thing, apologies if that's the case.
I am having basically the same debate with the pair of you.
Back to youth. Its 2 different things. Obviously we need a youth team and I don't expect us to release every 18 year old becsue they wonr play PL however that is entirely different to whether we should sell a 22 year old who is not part of the youth team anymore and has not been for some time. These are 2 different questions. each player decision must be taken non its own merits. Any conclusions beyond that you have created to try support your argument.
I disagree that 1 good season in league 1 improves his value that much. Maybe it means he is worth more but that is counter balanced by the the fact that he would then be in the last year of his contract come the end of any loan and might choose to ride out and leave for free if he's not going to get 1st team football which I think is unlikely.
I still believe you are being disingenuous RE my Messi comment and I do not see how anyone could take that as literl compassion.
My turn for a questions and then we can leave it becaue your tone is becoming borderline aggressive at this point.
If we're not keeping him becaue he's going to play for us 1 day and we're not keeping him to just sell him next year when he isn't going to be worth that much more anyway (at least IMO) why are you so determined that we must keep him?
Would he get in out squad this season?
Would he get in our squad next season? | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 20:15 - Jun 7 with 1965 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:42 - Jun 7 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Perhaps I'm confusing with Jay on the Watford thing, apologies if that's the case.
I am having basically the same debate with the pair of you.
Back to youth. Its 2 different things. Obviously we need a youth team and I don't expect us to release every 18 year old becsue they wonr play PL however that is entirely different to whether we should sell a 22 year old who is not part of the youth team anymore and has not been for some time. These are 2 different questions. each player decision must be taken non its own merits. Any conclusions beyond that you have created to try support your argument.
I disagree that 1 good season in league 1 improves his value that much. Maybe it means he is worth more but that is counter balanced by the the fact that he would then be in the last year of his contract come the end of any loan and might choose to ride out and leave for free if he's not going to get 1st team football which I think is unlikely.
I still believe you are being disingenuous RE my Messi comment and I do not see how anyone could take that as literl compassion.
My turn for a questions and then we can leave it becaue your tone is becoming borderline aggressive at this point.
If we're not keeping him becaue he's going to play for us 1 day and we're not keeping him to just sell him next year when he isn't going to be worth that much more anyway (at least IMO) why are you so determined that we must keep him?
Would he get in out squad this season?
Would he get in our squad next season? |
Do you mean "keeping him" in your last para? Because otherwise it doesn't make sense.
I've made my position very clear. We won't get a huge amount for him now, not enough to get excited about. So we put him out on loan again and see how he develops. That's it.
I'm not going to give a time frame for when, or if, he'll be ready for our first team. How on earth would I know? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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