| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? 20:10 - Jun 2 with 15545 views | cbower |
That's if we do sell him. He is still very young, is coming off a season of critical acclaim from fans, fellow players and managers and may well be someone we would look at were he not already our player. I appreciate he is currently behind Morsy, Luongo, Ball, Evans and probably also Humphreys and Camara. However, in two years time how much will Morsy and Luongo have left? Can Evans and Camara stay fit? Does Ball have enough to be first choice? Is Humphreys ready?
For me, El Miz might be where Jack Taylor is now in 12-18 months. Loan him out again and reassess this time next year, we effectively have 2 years more with the 12 month option on his contract.
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 09:43 - Jun 3 with 2759 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 09:33 - Jun 3 by Herbivore |
Indeed. I'd hope we'll take a good look at him before making any decisions. He has the attributes we would want from a new CM I think, the question is whether he's good enough to step up straight away and be that new CM for us or not. He's had a great season at Orient but League 2 isn't the Championship, that said a young players coming off that sort of season would often attract Championship interest so it's not impossible he could be good enough to play a part for us next season CM is stacked but we have a few there who probably aren't what we need going forward, the likes of Evans and Ball, and Humphreys isn't quite ready. Camara is another wild card, hard to know what he may offer us. |
As Gav points out, the fact that the window doesn't close until 1st Sept is key. It gives Kieran plenty of time to assess all his options in midfield, and see who is gonna be up for starting. Then a month of games as well. Camara is a fascinating one for me. But who knows who will come out as the preferred CM pair. |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 09:43 - Jun 3 with 2759 views | jayessess |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 09:26 - Jun 3 by textbackup |
I’d be gutted to see him go, but for his career it might be wise.
No idea if this is a thing, but stick a clause in the sale where we get first refusal to buy him back?
I think he’ll end up being a very solid Championship player. |
It is a thing - although I don't think I've ever heard of a team of our status using them, just the likes of Manchester City.
Think for lower league clubs buying young players, the potential to reap a big profit down the line is so central to what you're buying that a knock down price for a buy back defeats the purpose of the exercise. |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 20:30 - Jun 3 with 2667 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 22:40 - Jun 2 by strikalite |
Wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to go given the Clubs that are interested and where he sees himself here in terms of pecking order, but I'd make damn sure of a big sell on clause and number of appearances etc..
Is there a maximum sell on clause a Club can put on a player? |
If the sell on clause is too high then the new club have little incentive to sell and will allow the player to stay with them rather than sell in the final year, and then either renew or run down the contract.
20 to 25% seems to be the sweet spot. [Post edited 3 Jun 2023 20:31]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 07:44 - Jun 4 with 2589 views | Churchman |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 20:20 - Jun 2 by Pique |
I think it's the right call to sell him (if that's what we end up doing).
For me, the 'he'd be well down the pecking order' argument is a bit of a red herring. The real question should be 'is he ready to be a Championship midfielder?' He's done fantastically well in League Two and has certainly done to suggest he'd be a good player in League One, but it'd still be asking a hell of a lot for him to be starting another league higher.
One of the marks of a successful, well run club is not just recruiting well, but also selling well (and at the right time). And I feel like this is El Mizouni's time - the iron may never be hotter than it is right now in terms of getting a decent return.
Could come back to bite us - it happens. But for me it's time to cash in and use the money towards further strengthening. |
I don’t see a problem with selling him, if that’s what they decide. The one thing these days we can be sure of is that the people running the club and managing the team will know what they want and whether a player fits to that or not.
The point was made recently, in respect of young players, that we won’t warehouse them. I doubt we will with squad players either, especially with FFP. The one thing we can be sure of is that we will get the best possible price for him if he goes. |  | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 08:31 - Jun 4 with 2540 views | franz_tyson |
I think we've got to stop worrying about regrets over players coming back to haunt us. If El Miz isn't seriously in contention for us and wants to be at a club where he isn't in limbo and can forward his career- it's right we do tbe right thing - and he moves on now. Maybe another years loan isn't what he wants and will stall his career. Look at Ndaba. I know he's had some injuries - but he's had a wasted year whereas he was POTS for Salford the year before. He's gone backwards. If we let El Miz go and he turns out to be a star player in a few years time - then that's how it goes and he wasn't right for us at that time. As long as we can do the right thing for the player and do a bit of business, too... then that's right. We can't keep on collecting players in the hope they might fit in a year or two's time. | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 08:52 - Jun 4 with 2523 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 08:31 - Jun 4 by franz_tyson |
I think we've got to stop worrying about regrets over players coming back to haunt us. If El Miz isn't seriously in contention for us and wants to be at a club where he isn't in limbo and can forward his career- it's right we do tbe right thing - and he moves on now. Maybe another years loan isn't what he wants and will stall his career. Look at Ndaba. I know he's had some injuries - but he's had a wasted year whereas he was POTS for Salford the year before. He's gone backwards. If we let El Miz go and he turns out to be a star player in a few years time - then that's how it goes and he wasn't right for us at that time. As long as we can do the right thing for the player and do a bit of business, too... then that's right. We can't keep on collecting players in the hope they might fit in a year or two's time. |
I do agree in part with what you've said. Ultimately it'll be a decision based on what is best for the club rather than the player though.
I think El Mizouni is going to be a proper player. He's got all the attributes to be an excellent, all round midfielder and I suspect had he got Cameron Humphreys minutes this season, many wouldn't even be considering selling him now.
It's quite telling that the market for him includes Derby (who will be wanting to win L1), Plymouth (who have been one of the shrewdest recruiters around over the last 2 years) and Watford (a yo-yo Championship/Prem club). [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 8:55]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 10:06 - Jun 4 with 2490 views | GlasgowBlue |
In the long run, I think we will. But we are a team in a hurry and he isn't the short term answer.
He'll go on to have a great career imo. But I completely understand why the club may want to cash in on him now in order to fund our progression. |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:18 - Jun 4 with 2433 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 10:06 - Jun 4 by GlasgowBlue |
In the long run, I think we will. But we are a team in a hurry and he isn't the short term answer.
He'll go on to have a great career imo. But I completely understand why the club may want to cash in on him now in order to fund our progression. |
"cash in on him now in order to fund our progression"?!?
How much money do you think we're going to get for a player who's only done it at League 2?!?
We may be a team looking to move up quickly but that doesn't mean abandoning developing our own players. El Miz is developing nicely and the next logical step seems a loan to League 1 to see if he can keep improving.
The amount we could command for him now is a drop in the ocean to what's available to Gamechanger. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:30 - Jun 4 with 2420 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:18 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"cash in on him now in order to fund our progression"?!?
How much money do you think we're going to get for a player who's only done it at League 2?!?
We may be a team looking to move up quickly but that doesn't mean abandoning developing our own players. El Miz is developing nicely and the next logical step seems a loan to League 1 to see if he can keep improving.
The amount we could command for him now is a drop in the ocean to what's available to Gamechanger. |
So keep him send him on loan un the hope that he might be worth a slightly bigger drop in the ocean?
Pointless. His value and profile are high now, he isn't going to help us now and probably wouldn't be there for at least another couple of seasons.
Take the money and use it wisely. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 11:36]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:32 - Jun 4 with 2409 views | franz_tyson |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:18 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"cash in on him now in order to fund our progression"?!?
How much money do you think we're going to get for a player who's only done it at League 2?!?
We may be a team looking to move up quickly but that doesn't mean abandoning developing our own players. El Miz is developing nicely and the next logical step seems a loan to League 1 to see if he can keep improving.
The amount we could command for him now is a drop in the ocean to what's available to Gamechanger. |
Reasonable point that a loan could further his development for us or command a bigger fee - but what if he doesn't want another loan? What if we offer him another contract to protect our asset and he won't sign - and just runs his contract down. Essentially, its up to the staff at the club to assess how far he can progress as a player... and how quickly. Maybe they think League One is as high as he can go. Based on the season before last - he wasn't that good at League One level. Humphreys performed better and he was younger. Maybe El Miz has developed that physical edge in the last season, that puts him up to new levels. Up to our staff to assess.
And we've been there before with players like Bishop who we thought would walk League One and had a high ceiling - but would eventually show them to be nowhere as good as we thought | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:34 - Jun 4 with 2404 views | ReusersTown |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 23:55 - Jun 2 by StNeotsBlue |
I'd like to see him stay, if that means a loan at a League 1 club then so be it. If we were linked with a 22 year old who had just had a storming season for the best team in League 2 then many of the people who are saying cash in would be clamouring for us to sign him. |
Your last line rings very true. | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:43 - Jun 4 with 2381 views | cressi |
No who in the last 4 yrs have really gone on to do anything possibly Downes may rest haven't done a great deal Bart in the championship done ok | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:53 - Jun 4 with 2351 views | dirtyboy |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:34 - Jun 4 by ReusersTown |
Your last line rings very true. |
I’m like StNeotsBlue.
Read it in news…
Town linked with exciting 22 year old, tenacious midfielder in League 2 team of the year.
This board would be clamouring for him to be signed as well be for the future.
It’s hard for him to fit in right now, but Morsy and Luongo will need to have a replacement at some point.
I think another loan may be on the cards but wouldn’t be surprised to see him here still. Just a tiby bit more patience. |  | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:57 - Jun 4 with 2343 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:18 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"cash in on him now in order to fund our progression"?!?
How much money do you think we're going to get for a player who's only done it at League 2?!?
We may be a team looking to move up quickly but that doesn't mean abandoning developing our own players. El Miz is developing nicely and the next logical step seems a loan to League 1 to see if he can keep improving.
The amount we could command for him now is a drop in the ocean to what's available to Gamechanger. |
We have a pension fund worth fortunes but Game Changer have to abide by FFP rules in the Championship, which we didn't in League One.
El Miz has just finished a superb season and quite a few clubs are looking at him. He could have a stinker next year, so we ay cash in on him at his peak value.
Ashton may well conclude that we would be better to get a fee for him ow to add to our war chest. | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 13:12 - Jun 4 with 2332 views | SheffordBlue |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:53 - Jun 4 by dirtyboy |
I’m like StNeotsBlue.
Read it in news…
Town linked with exciting 22 year old, tenacious midfielder in League 2 team of the year.
This board would be clamouring for him to be signed as well be for the future.
It’s hard for him to fit in right now, but Morsy and Luongo will need to have a replacement at some point.
I think another loan may be on the cards but wouldn’t be surprised to see him here still. Just a tiby bit more patience. |
Have we signed anyone from League 2 since the new owners/Ashton et al have taken over.? I'm not sure the board are clamouring for those types of signings - the current 'player trading' profile seems to mainly be players from Prem academies who haven't quite broken through.
That's not to say we won't in the future but it doesn't really match what we've done so far. | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:30 - Jun 4 with 2284 views | bobbyramsey |
Didn’t realise we’d sold him……… |  | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 14:46 - Jun 4 with 2277 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 07:53 - Jun 3 by GavTWTD |
Kieran has him theoretically until 1st September so that's a long time to appraise what he can do for us. |
We spent a long time getting rid of players who were not good enough for the level we were at while we gradually slipped down the levels. We then saw many of those players progress beyond where we were. The key is making sure we get value for a player when we do sell, and hanging on to the right ones. I would love to see El Mizouni make it with us. However, the current management set up will consider what the likely ceiling is and value them accordingly. I would expect add-ons to play a significant part if we do sell. I wouldn't be too surprised to see him loaned out in League 1. If Plymouth are happy to loan him in the Championship that would be great - they have developed loanees well and he would be ineligible against us. |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:35 - Jun 4 with 2243 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:30 - Jun 4 by BlueandTruesince82 |
So keep him send him on loan un the hope that he might be worth a slightly bigger drop in the ocean?
Pointless. His value and profile are high now, he isn't going to help us now and probably wouldn't be there for at least another couple of seasons.
Take the money and use it wisely. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 11:36]
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"So keep him send him on loan un the hope that he might be worth a slightly bigger drop in the ocean?"
No. That's not the only option. Why is everyone so obsessed with money? I was thinking keep him, send him out on loan at a higher level, develop him... until he's good enough to play for us.
I reiterate, take what money and use it wisely? We aren't going to get much for a good League 2 player. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:40 - Jun 4 with 2218 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:32 - Jun 4 by franz_tyson |
Reasonable point that a loan could further his development for us or command a bigger fee - but what if he doesn't want another loan? What if we offer him another contract to protect our asset and he won't sign - and just runs his contract down. Essentially, its up to the staff at the club to assess how far he can progress as a player... and how quickly. Maybe they think League One is as high as he can go. Based on the season before last - he wasn't that good at League One level. Humphreys performed better and he was younger. Maybe El Miz has developed that physical edge in the last season, that puts him up to new levels. Up to our staff to assess.
And we've been there before with players like Bishop who we thought would walk League One and had a high ceiling - but would eventually show them to be nowhere as good as we thought |
Obviously if he doesn't want to stay that's a different kettle of fish and one I can't comment on as I have no idea. I was simply addressing "cash in on him now in order to fund our progression" because I really don't see the sale of El Miz funding much progression.
I would totally go by what McKenna and the coaching staff decide though. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:52 - Jun 4 with 2205 views | Wakh |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:35 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"So keep him send him on loan un the hope that he might be worth a slightly bigger drop in the ocean?"
No. That's not the only option. Why is everyone so obsessed with money? I was thinking keep him, send him out on loan at a higher level, develop him... until he's good enough to play for us.
I reiterate, take what money and use it wisely? We aren't going to get much for a good League 2 player. |
It's not all about now though is it.
If we sold a player for say £2m that may be paid in 3 instalments of £0.6-0.7m.
If we sold El miz for £0.7m (just say that to match an instalment) and then picked up a considerable sell on fee of a million or two (may or may not be installments).
It's getting a continuous income on trading and El miz might provide the funding for another player who KMc may feel has more potential and may also increase in value. We can't keep everyone on the basis they may come good if all clubs did there will be no player trading market. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 16:00]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:57 - Jun 4 with 2182 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:57 - Jun 4 by GlasgowBlue |
We have a pension fund worth fortunes but Game Changer have to abide by FFP rules in the Championship, which we didn't in League One.
El Miz has just finished a superb season and quite a few clubs are looking at him. He could have a stinker next year, so we ay cash in on him at his peak value.
Ashton may well conclude that we would be better to get a fee for him ow to add to our war chest. |
Conversely, he's young, improving, maybe he won't have a stinker next year!
Maybe he'll continue to improve and be knocking on the door of our first team next year (and be worth way more, if that's the way you want to think). I'd like us to keep improving our young players ready for the first team, not flog them off as soon as they have some interest.
I might be wrong but I don't think what we could get now is going to add all that much to our war chest. You'd need to sell a lot of El Mizes to buy one George Hirst, for example.
But if the coaches believe he won't improve so we should get rid now, then obviously fair enough. I just don't think it'll be much of a financial decision, more an ability one. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:10 - Jun 4 with 2171 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:32 - Jun 4 by franz_tyson |
Reasonable point that a loan could further his development for us or command a bigger fee - but what if he doesn't want another loan? What if we offer him another contract to protect our asset and he won't sign - and just runs his contract down. Essentially, its up to the staff at the club to assess how far he can progress as a player... and how quickly. Maybe they think League One is as high as he can go. Based on the season before last - he wasn't that good at League One level. Humphreys performed better and he was younger. Maybe El Miz has developed that physical edge in the last season, that puts him up to new levels. Up to our staff to assess.
And we've been there before with players like Bishop who we thought would walk League One and had a high ceiling - but would eventually show them to be nowhere as good as we thought |
"Based on the season before last - he wasn't that good at League One level"
What, in the 276 minutes he was given? | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:13 - Jun 4 with 2169 views | jayessess |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:52 - Jun 4 by Wakh |
It's not all about now though is it.
If we sold a player for say £2m that may be paid in 3 instalments of £0.6-0.7m.
If we sold El miz for £0.7m (just say that to match an instalment) and then picked up a considerable sell on fee of a million or two (may or may not be installments).
It's getting a continuous income on trading and El miz might provide the funding for another player who KMc may feel has more potential and may also increase in value. We can't keep everyone on the basis they may come good if all clubs did there will be no player trading market. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 16:00]
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Gotta say, struggling to see the logic here.
We should sell a player for £700k plus add-ons, in the hope that he's then subsequently sold during that contract for £5-10m, so we can get 20-25% of that profit. Meanwhile we spend that upfront money on a different player, who we reckon has more potential (although their market value is more or less the same as El Mizouni right now).
That all seems rather convoluted to me.
I can see the rationale in selling a player if our judgement is that he's not going to ultimately succeed at a higher level. The idea we can cover ourselves with add-ons and buy a higher potential player not so much. | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:27 - Jun 4 with 2148 views | Wakh |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:13 - Jun 4 by jayessess |
Gotta say, struggling to see the logic here.
We should sell a player for £700k plus add-ons, in the hope that he's then subsequently sold during that contract for £5-10m, so we can get 20-25% of that profit. Meanwhile we spend that upfront money on a different player, who we reckon has more potential (although their market value is more or less the same as El Mizouni right now).
That all seems rather convoluted to me.
I can see the rationale in selling a player if our judgement is that he's not going to ultimately succeed at a higher level. The idea we can cover ourselves with add-ons and buy a higher potential player not so much. |
The point is you cannot view any kind of trading individually. You cannot buy and sell a share of a business on what might happen you make the decision on a calculation. Yes that business share may increase in value but if you have limited funds (which FFP will effectively guarantee) it's about turning over money and making the best of the assets as a portfolio. Trading is a platform not one player.
If you sold a player now for £0.5m to say Plymouth and they sold him for £4m then if viewed as an individual trade it may seem a poor decision. If say that £0.5m was part of a summer's trading that kept us within FFP and yielded a much better return in the value of our assets it would have been a good piece of business.
If we sold El miz, or loaned him his value could fall or rise just as it could with us, but our trading platform as a whole will be good or bad. The point is if we sold El Miz and his value increased that may not ensure it is a bad deal and judging whether £0.5m would add much to our warchest right now is insignificant when a trading period is over a 3 year period.
If we are playing player trading that's a platform not about an individual. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 16:33]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:30 - Jun 4 with 2144 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:52 - Jun 4 by Wakh |
It's not all about now though is it.
If we sold a player for say £2m that may be paid in 3 instalments of £0.6-0.7m.
If we sold El miz for £0.7m (just say that to match an instalment) and then picked up a considerable sell on fee of a million or two (may or may not be installments).
It's getting a continuous income on trading and El miz might provide the funding for another player who KMc may feel has more potential and may also increase in value. We can't keep everyone on the basis they may come good if all clubs did there will be no player trading market. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 16:00]
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Lots of ifs buts and maybes in there.
"El miz might provide the funding for another player who KMc may feel has more potential and may also increase in value."
I'd love to know what player we're going to buy with the El Miz money that is better and has more potential. Maybe the buying club should buy this mystery player instead!
If we're buying a player in instalments then we are also likely getting money for El Miz in instalments too, so not really sure what point you're making there. A sell on clause could reap rewards in the future but that's even more guesswork on both amount and when it'll come to fruition.
And on your final point, no-one is suggesting keeping everyone. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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