| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? 20:10 - Jun 2 with 15557 views | cbower |
That's if we do sell him. He is still very young, is coming off a season of critical acclaim from fans, fellow players and managers and may well be someone we would look at were he not already our player. I appreciate he is currently behind Morsy, Luongo, Ball, Evans and probably also Humphreys and Camara. However, in two years time how much will Morsy and Luongo have left? Can Evans and Camara stay fit? Does Ball have enough to be first choice? Is Humphreys ready?
For me, El Miz might be where Jack Taylor is now in 12-18 months. Loan him out again and reassess this time next year, we effectively have 2 years more with the 12 month option on his contract.
Any thoughts? |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:42 - Jun 4 with 2753 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:52 - Jun 4 by Wakh |
It's not all about now though is it.
If we sold a player for say £2m that may be paid in 3 instalments of £0.6-0.7m.
If we sold El miz for £0.7m (just say that to match an instalment) and then picked up a considerable sell on fee of a million or two (may or may not be installments).
It's getting a continuous income on trading and El miz might provide the funding for another player who KMc may feel has more potential and may also increase in value. We can't keep everyone on the basis they may come good if all clubs did there will be no player trading market. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 16:00]
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We can't keep everyone, no. But you have to back a couple of horses. The player that has just been voted in L2 team of the year and is wanted by two fellow Championship clubs with proven shrewd recruitment teams seems as good a horse to back as any.
If we got offered £1.5m for Cameron Humphreys tomorrow, would anyone take it? I'd hope the answer to that is no. But he's not going to be close to our first team next season. It's not always about here and now. Well run clubs identify their best young players, provide a proper development plan, back them and give them a chance to improve.
[Post edited 4 Jun 2023 16:43]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:44 - Jun 4 with 2737 views | Wakh |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:30 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Lots of ifs buts and maybes in there.
"El miz might provide the funding for another player who KMc may feel has more potential and may also increase in value."
I'd love to know what player we're going to buy with the El Miz money that is better and has more potential. Maybe the buying club should buy this mystery player instead!
If we're buying a player in instalments then we are also likely getting money for El Miz in instalments too, so not really sure what point you're making there. A sell on clause could reap rewards in the future but that's even more guesswork on both amount and when it'll come to fruition.
And on your final point, no-one is suggesting keeping everyone. |
Well Ashton and Kmc will know who that mystery player is, if it's not El Miz. They have the budion and data, our model depends on it.
Your comment about the instalments are right so for any form of trading to work you have to constantly turnover cash if El Miz is not quite the asset we need whether he increases in value or not he might just generate some cash over the next 3 year period.
I sold a business recently that was going to get busy and it certainly did. I sold it because I really wanted another business. Both are doing great right now. I don't regret selling the other business just that I couldn't afford to have both. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 16:48]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:56 - Jun 4 with 2720 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:44 - Jun 4 by Wakh |
Well Ashton and Kmc will know who that mystery player is, if it's not El Miz. They have the budion and data, our model depends on it.
Your comment about the instalments are right so for any form of trading to work you have to constantly turnover cash if El Miz is not quite the asset we need whether he increases in value or not he might just generate some cash over the next 3 year period.
I sold a business recently that was going to get busy and it certainly did. I sold it because I really wanted another business. Both are doing great right now. I don't regret selling the other business just that I couldn't afford to have both. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 16:48]
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This mystery player is fictitious though! You made him up to make your point.
I think selling a business is a very different to football player trading.
And we CAN afford both! We can send El Miz on loan, get a loan fee, have a percentage of his wages paid AND recruit for right now in the Champ. And then we still own El Miz for future reference.
Again, this is all caveated as to whether the coaches think he is/will be good enough, and I'll trust their judgement on that. |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:05 - Jun 4 with 2703 views | Wakh |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:56 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
This mystery player is fictitious though! You made him up to make your point.
I think selling a business is a very different to football player trading.
And we CAN afford both! We can send El Miz on loan, get a loan fee, have a percentage of his wages paid AND recruit for right now in the Champ. And then we still own El Miz for future reference.
Again, this is all caveated as to whether the coaches think he is/will be good enough, and I'll trust their judgement on that. |
No not at all. You mentioned mystery player. I said that mystery player who may or may not take priority over El Miz iwill be known to MA/Kmc
And no it's no different to a business.
And what makes you think we CAN afford both. We have a budget - it's called FFP abd only the intended recruitment of MA and KMc will know if within its restrictions we can afford to keep him.
Also, our player trading has benefitted enormously from sell ons of late. If we have better options than El Miz then he generates cash, now and over a period.
The sale of El Miz may allow as that extra bid on another player or two who may or may not increase in value more than El Miz. Its a big picture that cant be determined on El Miz. If he we sell him for half a million and then sells for 5 million, our success and trading will decide whether it was a good deal for us or not. It won't be all about El Miz [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 17:07]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:14 - Jun 4 with 2675 views | franz_tyson |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:10 - Jun 4 by tractorboy1978 |
"Based on the season before last - he wasn't that good at League One level"
What, in the 276 minutes he was given? |
Um.... yes... he wasn't good enough. If it was only 276 mins he got .... then it still was enough to show he wasn't ready. The sheff Wed game where he partnered Bakinson was a case in point. He was miles away from a Morsy or Luongo. Even Humphreys performed better than him and Humphreys still isn't there to play week in, week out.
Hands up... I never saw him perform for Orient. I have a feeling that I'm not alone. Could be he really has improved a lot to maybe bang on the door here or show enough improvement to loan out / new contract offer- but he was never good enough for us in tbat previous season where Morsy, Evans were missing at times and Bakinson was preferred. Morsy and Luongo upped the ante last season for a CM combo.... its tougher competition there now than ever before. | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:20 - Jun 4 with 2666 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:05 - Jun 4 by Wakh |
No not at all. You mentioned mystery player. I said that mystery player who may or may not take priority over El Miz iwill be known to MA/Kmc
And no it's no different to a business.
And what makes you think we CAN afford both. We have a budget - it's called FFP abd only the intended recruitment of MA and KMc will know if within its restrictions we can afford to keep him.
Also, our player trading has benefitted enormously from sell ons of late. If we have better options than El Miz then he generates cash, now and over a period.
The sale of El Miz may allow as that extra bid on another player or two who may or may not increase in value more than El Miz. Its a big picture that cant be determined on El Miz. If he we sell him for half a million and then sells for 5 million, our success and trading will decide whether it was a good deal for us or not. It won't be all about El Miz [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 17:07]
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Erm, no, YOU mentioned the mystery player: "El miz might provide the funding for another player who KMc may feel has more potential and may also increase in value."
I have explained why I think we can afford both keeping El Miz and trading other players around FFP. We get a loan fee. We get a percentage of his wages paid. And he's still an asset.
The decision to keep El Miz will be based on whether they think he'll come good more than how much money we can make on him. If you think an extra £500k is going to make a huge difference to this summer's trading then I think you're deluded, frankly.
If he's worth £5m in 5 years, we may well be in the Prem by then so that bit of extra sell on clause will still be a drop in the ocean.
Selling off every half decent youngster as soon as someone's interested seems a false economy to me and we may as well not bother paying for half the coaches we have developing those younger players. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:21 - Jun 4 with 2664 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 15:35 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"So keep him send him on loan un the hope that he might be worth a slightly bigger drop in the ocean?"
No. That's not the only option. Why is everyone so obsessed with money? I was thinking keep him, send him out on loan at a higher level, develop him... until he's good enough to play for us.
I reiterate, take what money and use it wisely? We aren't going to get much for a good League 2 player. |
If he's only a good league 2 player then why rhe clamour to keep him?
The aim is for us to be ahead of his curve. He adds nothing playing for someone else and were talking 2 to 3 seasons before he's maybe a 1st team player.....
So long as we use what we do get wisely then the figure is somewhat irrelevant and every pound in is important regardless of how deep our pockets may be.
500k plus is nor be sniffed at whether its a drop in the ocean or a splash. |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:24 - Jun 4 with 2658 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:14 - Jun 4 by franz_tyson |
Um.... yes... he wasn't good enough. If it was only 276 mins he got .... then it still was enough to show he wasn't ready. The sheff Wed game where he partnered Bakinson was a case in point. He was miles away from a Morsy or Luongo. Even Humphreys performed better than him and Humphreys still isn't there to play week in, week out.
Hands up... I never saw him perform for Orient. I have a feeling that I'm not alone. Could be he really has improved a lot to maybe bang on the door here or show enough improvement to loan out / new contract offer- but he was never good enough for us in tbat previous season where Morsy, Evans were missing at times and Bakinson was preferred. Morsy and Luongo upped the ante last season for a CM combo.... its tougher competition there now than ever before. |
He perhaps wasn't good enough THEN. But after a fantastic season with LO, maybe he is now. That's how development works.
Expecting him to be anywhere near Morsy or Luongo (either then or now) is rather harsh and short-sighted. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:30 - Jun 4 with 2640 views | Wakh |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:20 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Erm, no, YOU mentioned the mystery player: "El miz might provide the funding for another player who KMc may feel has more potential and may also increase in value."
I have explained why I think we can afford both keeping El Miz and trading other players around FFP. We get a loan fee. We get a percentage of his wages paid. And he's still an asset.
The decision to keep El Miz will be based on whether they think he'll come good more than how much money we can make on him. If you think an extra £500k is going to make a huge difference to this summer's trading then I think you're deluded, frankly.
If he's worth £5m in 5 years, we may well be in the Prem by then so that bit of extra sell on clause will still be a drop in the ocean.
Selling off every half decent youngster as soon as someone's interested seems a false economy to me and we may as well not bother paying for half the coaches we have developing those younger players. |
Jeez. I was replying to your previous comment.
So, are we signing anyone this summer. I guess yes.
Do you know who we are signing. I guess no.
So who we sign is a mystery player who (if we sell ElMiz) Ma and Kmc would rather take a calculated gamble on instead of El Miz.
Whether we can afford/want to keep him depends on Kmc/MAs intended spending and evaluation. I guess you don't know that.
My point is, the big picture will decide on whether it was a good choice to offload him not whether he does well elsewhere. | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:32 - Jun 4 with 2636 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:21 - Jun 4 by BlueandTruesince82 |
If he's only a good league 2 player then why rhe clamour to keep him?
The aim is for us to be ahead of his curve. He adds nothing playing for someone else and were talking 2 to 3 seasons before he's maybe a 1st team player.....
So long as we use what we do get wisely then the figure is somewhat irrelevant and every pound in is important regardless of how deep our pockets may be.
500k plus is nor be sniffed at whether its a drop in the ocean or a splash. |
He's been really good at the level he's played at. So then you see if he performs similarly at the next level. And so on. What more can he do than be in the L2 team of the year?
He doesn't "add nothing playing for someone else" - he's gaining experience and developing.
And why are we talking 2 to 3 seasons before he's maybe a 1st team player? Maybe he'll be ready in 1? Either way, it's very short-termist to say "he's not ready now, get rid". Might as well get rid of all our youngsters and shut down the academy with that attitude.
Are you not interested in developing ANY players for 1, 2 or 3 years time? Or just El Miz? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:47 - Jun 4 with 2607 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:30 - Jun 4 by Wakh |
Jeez. I was replying to your previous comment.
So, are we signing anyone this summer. I guess yes.
Do you know who we are signing. I guess no.
So who we sign is a mystery player who (if we sell ElMiz) Ma and Kmc would rather take a calculated gamble on instead of El Miz.
Whether we can afford/want to keep him depends on Kmc/MAs intended spending and evaluation. I guess you don't know that.
My point is, the big picture will decide on whether it was a good choice to offload him not whether he does well elsewhere. |
Well obviously we'll be signing players better than El Miz this summer, but you said a player "El miz might provide the funding for".
You are guessing the money we get for El Miz might get us a better player with a greater resale value. That's a hell of a guess to base your argument on. He might pay for one of Hirst's legs but there's no evidence for anything else.
What the bigger picture shows, well you might as well lick a finger and stick it in the air. Whether he comes good for us or someone else (or not at all) remains to be seen. We have to make a decision now. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 18:12 - Jun 4 with 2584 views | Wakh |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:47 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Well obviously we'll be signing players better than El Miz this summer, but you said a player "El miz might provide the funding for".
You are guessing the money we get for El Miz might get us a better player with a greater resale value. That's a hell of a guess to base your argument on. He might pay for one of Hirst's legs but there's no evidence for anything else.
What the bigger picture shows, well you might as well lick a finger and stick it in the air. Whether he comes good for us or someone else (or not at all) remains to be seen. We have to make a decision now. |
No. I'm not saying that at all. What I saying is we don't know what the budget is and who we are spending it on. The El Mis income, may allow the purchase of a young talent KMc admires now, it may be an increase our income in 2 years time from a sell on fee that may or may or may not happen.
It's not licking you finger and sticking it in the air, it's KMc and MA looking at shed loads of data and making a calculated decision.I am sure they will not be ignoring El Miz's data either.
The point Is, we sell X amount of players, generate Y amount of cash overv a said period and invest and go again. Tlif El Miz does well elsewhere that does not necessarily make it a regretful decision for us. | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 18:51 - Jun 4 with 2561 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:32 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
He's been really good at the level he's played at. So then you see if he performs similarly at the next level. And so on. What more can he do than be in the L2 team of the year?
He doesn't "add nothing playing for someone else" - he's gaining experience and developing.
And why are we talking 2 to 3 seasons before he's maybe a 1st team player? Maybe he'll be ready in 1? Either way, it's very short-termist to say "he's not ready now, get rid". Might as well get rid of all our youngsters and shut down the academy with that attitude.
Are you not interested in developing ANY players for 1, 2 or 3 years time? Or just El Miz? |
Yes maybe he's ready in 1 but in all honesty fo you see that? Honestly.
We cam only look at the facts
Does he get in the 1st 11? No.
Does he get in the matchday squad? no
Are there 5 players in front of him? (Witnout including Mas) yes.
Is it likely that we look to continue to improve tbe squad and bring in better than we have? Yes.
Does the above mean El Miz would need to improve much more to stand a chance of being at a level to make a squad? Yes.
Is that likely? You may think so. I don't.
Does he have a good value now? Yes.
Are there multiple suitors? Yes.
That all adds up to sell.
Sure he might go out on loan and have another amazing season and go from best player in L2 to best ayer in L1.....but how often has that happened in the past?
Even a mediocre season means he slips of peoples radar. Many football transfers are built on hype.
Keeping him on the off chance that he might be good enough in 2 to 3 years just seems foolish when his value can bea realised and put to use now.
It's a risk either way of course but I can not see how hanging onto a player that's not going to play for us helps our cause.
Is not he's kot ready now, uts he's not ready now and given what the club is building its a big ask for him.
I'm not sayingbwe must sell. But the whole we can't sell because he might be worth more later os such one dimensional view point.
The only question is would it benefit the club more to sell now or wait. We don't know but if he's not going to play this season and he'd not going to play next season and he's out of contract the next season I really think the answer is yes | |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 20:53 - Jun 4 with 2511 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 18:51 - Jun 4 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Yes maybe he's ready in 1 but in all honesty fo you see that? Honestly.
We cam only look at the facts
Does he get in the 1st 11? No.
Does he get in the matchday squad? no
Are there 5 players in front of him? (Witnout including Mas) yes.
Is it likely that we look to continue to improve tbe squad and bring in better than we have? Yes.
Does the above mean El Miz would need to improve much more to stand a chance of being at a level to make a squad? Yes.
Is that likely? You may think so. I don't.
Does he have a good value now? Yes.
Are there multiple suitors? Yes.
That all adds up to sell.
Sure he might go out on loan and have another amazing season and go from best player in L2 to best ayer in L1.....but how often has that happened in the past?
Even a mediocre season means he slips of peoples radar. Many football transfers are built on hype.
Keeping him on the off chance that he might be good enough in 2 to 3 years just seems foolish when his value can bea realised and put to use now.
It's a risk either way of course but I can not see how hanging onto a player that's not going to play for us helps our cause.
Is not he's kot ready now, uts he's not ready now and given what the club is building its a big ask for him.
I'm not sayingbwe must sell. But the whole we can't sell because he might be worth more later os such one dimensional view point.
The only question is would it benefit the club more to sell now or wait. We don't know but if he's not going to play this season and he'd not going to play next season and he's out of contract the next season I really think the answer is yes |
Instead of answering my question you've asked a lot yourself (and then answered them yourself).
I can see your viewpoint to a certain extent, but I'll ask you again, "Are you not interested in developing ANY players for 1, 2 or 3 years time?"
We have lots of players not ready for the first team now, should we sell/release them all?
My other point, at this point in time, is the amount of money we'll get for him now worth cashing in for? I don't think it'll be that great, unless Ashton surprises me. It's League 2. Hardly seems worth that gamble. In betting terms it seems like cashing out for a fiver when you could hang on for 5 grand. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 20:56 - Jun 4 with 2508 views | Pique |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 17:24 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
He perhaps wasn't good enough THEN. But after a fantastic season with LO, maybe he is now. That's how development works.
Expecting him to be anywhere near Morsy or Luongo (either then or now) is rather harsh and short-sighted. |
There's no doubt he's had a fantastic season and has done all that anyone could have expected. I'm sure he's improved in the last 12 months. But League Two is a pretty poor league - Forest Green walked it a year ago and then got destroyed in League One. That's not to take anything away from El Mizouni, but I think what he's proved so far is that he's a capable League One midfielder. If we were still in League One I think it would be time to make him a regular squad member, but the step up again to the Championship is colossal and I'd be amazed if he's ready for that. Which is why I'd personally cash in now, but McKenna and Ashton may see it differently (and if they do then that's good enough for me). |  | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:02 - Jun 4 with 2498 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 20:56 - Jun 4 by Pique |
There's no doubt he's had a fantastic season and has done all that anyone could have expected. I'm sure he's improved in the last 12 months. But League Two is a pretty poor league - Forest Green walked it a year ago and then got destroyed in League One. That's not to take anything away from El Mizouni, but I think what he's proved so far is that he's a capable League One midfielder. If we were still in League One I think it would be time to make him a regular squad member, but the step up again to the Championship is colossal and I'd be amazed if he's ready for that. Which is why I'd personally cash in now, but McKenna and Ashton may see it differently (and if they do then that's good enough for me). |
I haven't said he's ready for the Champ now, I've said about loaning him to League 1 and seeing if he can step up there. For a few hundred grand I'd have thought it's worth the gamble, but like you, whatever McKenna and Ashton think is good enough for me. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:07 - Jun 4 with 2480 views | Pique |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:02 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I haven't said he's ready for the Champ now, I've said about loaning him to League 1 and seeing if he can step up there. For a few hundred grand I'd have thought it's worth the gamble, but like you, whatever McKenna and Ashton think is good enough for me. |
I know you didn't say he's ready for the Championship yet, and that you'd like to loan him to League One and see what happens. I only mentioned the Championship because this whole debate hinges on whether you think he has the potential to be a Championship midfielder in the next year or two. Personally, I'm just not convinced. | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:19 - Jun 4 with 2457 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:07 - Jun 4 by Pique |
I know you didn't say he's ready for the Championship yet, and that you'd like to loan him to League One and see what happens. I only mentioned the Championship because this whole debate hinges on whether you think he has the potential to be a Championship midfielder in the next year or two. Personally, I'm just not convinced. |
Well if anyone was convinced it'd be a no brainer. That's what the discussion is all about. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:35 - Jun 4 with 2440 views | Pique |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 21:19 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Well if anyone was convinced it'd be a no brainer. That's what the discussion is all about. |
Well quite. And there are only one or two opinions that really matter on this, and they're not mine or yours.
Personally, I think El Mizouni may be reaching his ceiling as a solid League One midfielder. He's not a kid anymore, he's nearly 23, and that's a lot of ground to make up to ever get to the level we'd need him to be at. Humphreys has showed a level of performance at League One level at 19 that El Mizouni has not yet managed. Granted some players are later developers, but El Mizouni may never be more attractive to other clubs than he is right now, which is why I think Ashton will cash in - the man clearly wants fees coming in and he's good at getting them.
But I guess we'll see - I'm genuinely happy and supportive either way, and if El Mizouni proves me and others wrong then good on him. | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 08:40 - Jun 5 with 2324 views | itfcjoe |
I agree, the smartest transfer operators in football in the UK at the moment are Brighton - for a number of reasons.
One of the things they do really well is a 'buy to loan' model, where effectively they pick people up before they are ready, and push them through the leagues on loan until they are ready for them, or if they stall or they realise they won't hit the heights they sell them.
El Miz was basically the best midfielder in L2 last year, and has 2 years left on his contract - when I hear what the plans are this summer, and how ambitious we are going to be then I struggle to see how a few hundred thousand is going to be any sort of difference maker to these so we may as well try and get him into L1 and see if he can do the same there, and so on.
Relying on sell ons, because we've been a bit lucky in last few years with them is not the way to go - who would have thought Webster would go for so much money so quickly after he left, or that Mings would get that big Villa move when before that loan he was on his way out the door for basically nothing. They are just an insurance policy against making it, and far from a sure thing |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 09:17 - Jun 5 with 2299 views | MaySixth |
No |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 09:17 - Jun 5 with 2299 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 08:40 - Jun 5 by itfcjoe |
I agree, the smartest transfer operators in football in the UK at the moment are Brighton - for a number of reasons.
One of the things they do really well is a 'buy to loan' model, where effectively they pick people up before they are ready, and push them through the leagues on loan until they are ready for them, or if they stall or they realise they won't hit the heights they sell them.
El Miz was basically the best midfielder in L2 last year, and has 2 years left on his contract - when I hear what the plans are this summer, and how ambitious we are going to be then I struggle to see how a few hundred thousand is going to be any sort of difference maker to these so we may as well try and get him into L1 and see if he can do the same there, and so on.
Relying on sell ons, because we've been a bit lucky in last few years with them is not the way to go - who would have thought Webster would go for so much money so quickly after he left, or that Mings would get that big Villa move when before that loan he was on his way out the door for basically nothing. They are just an insurance policy against making it, and far from a sure thing |
Downes going for £12m the summer after we sold him for £1.5m too. I am sure there were plenty on here kicking him as he left the door saying that was a decent deal for us and he was nothing more than a mid-tier Championship player.
I know the circumstances were a bit different but selling off players that kick on and 12-24 months later get sold on for multiples more than you sold them for isn't a great practice to get into, even if you have sell ons. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 9:19]
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:04 - Jun 5 with 2260 views | jayessess |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 09:17 - Jun 5 by tractorboy1978 |
Downes going for £12m the summer after we sold him for £1.5m too. I am sure there were plenty on here kicking him as he left the door saying that was a decent deal for us and he was nothing more than a mid-tier Championship player.
I know the circumstances were a bit different but selling off players that kick on and 12-24 months later get sold on for multiples more than you sold them for isn't a great practice to get into, even if you have sell ons. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 9:19]
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Yes, particularly when you're discarding players (rather than forced to sell) the sell-on clauses are to cover you a bit if you've made the wrong decision, but you're still ultimately missing out on the main profit.
Historically, selling players off the back of good loan spells has bitten us a fair few times. Jordan Rhodes, Jack Marriott, Matt Clarke, Kieffer Moore. That's probably the bones of £20m there.
In the other column you could put Josh Emmanuel, Corrie Ndaba and perhaps in future Tyreece Simpson, as players whose values probably peaked after good loans. |  |
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| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 11:20 - Jun 5 with 2234 views | the_toff |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 16:44 - Jun 4 by Wakh |
Well Ashton and Kmc will know who that mystery player is, if it's not El Miz. They have the budion and data, our model depends on it.
Your comment about the instalments are right so for any form of trading to work you have to constantly turnover cash if El Miz is not quite the asset we need whether he increases in value or not he might just generate some cash over the next 3 year period.
I sold a business recently that was going to get busy and it certainly did. I sold it because I really wanted another business. Both are doing great right now. I don't regret selling the other business just that I couldn't afford to have both. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 16:48]
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All serious clubs use the same data and models to identify targets. Its naïve to think we have some sort of cheat code and are any better equipped than most in the Championship. | | | |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 12:30 - Jun 5 with 2191 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
| Anyone else think we may regret selling El Miz? on 20:53 - Jun 4 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Instead of answering my question you've asked a lot yourself (and then answered them yourself).
I can see your viewpoint to a certain extent, but I'll ask you again, "Are you not interested in developing ANY players for 1, 2 or 3 years time?"
We have lots of players not ready for the first team now, should we sell/release them all?
My other point, at this point in time, is the amount of money we'll get for him now worth cashing in for? I don't think it'll be that great, unless Ashton surprises me. It's League 2. Hardly seems worth that gamble. In betting terms it seems like cashing out for a fiver when you could hang on for 5 grand. |
Of course we have to develop players but it's more nuanced than that and each one is its own decision.
I've given a very clear thought process as to why in this instance I think it makes sense to sell..
The flip side is yoh don't cash out, the last leg let's you down and you get nothing.
He's not going to be anywhere near our team in the next 2 years and hopefully after that we have progressed even further anyway.
All this hand wringing over selling a player that's not going to play for us | |
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