By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Sam Morsy (31) - Turns 32 at start of the season, spent most of his career at top of L1 or bottom end of Champ but is undoubtedly our best midfielder. His game seems to have gone to another level under McKenna, but what role will he find when he isn't the best player on the pitch every week?
Mass Luongo (30) - Turns 31 at start of season, as above really with level he has played at, but also has had serious injury issues.
Those 2 look far and away above the rest of our midfielders, but think at their age and with their careers to date, there must be serious questions asked about stepping up.
Lee Evans (28) - Is 29 before the season starts, for me he lacks the athletic ability in his game to play in the Championship, and when he has found himself at that level previously hasn't impressed.
Dom Ball (27) - Is 28 before season starts, the much maligned on here Andre Dozzell played more minutes in Championship than Ball for QPR in his last season there - his 3 seasons there saw the minute equivalent of 27 games, 24 games and then 14 games.
Pan Camara (26) - Relatively fast rise through non league and then L2, but really it's one good season in L1, which has been followed up by around 15 months of being unfit which is going to be hard to recover from and play a lot without issues.
Youngsters
Idris El Mizouni (22) - 23 at start of the season, of the back of a brilliant loan spell, but a big jump from L2 to the Championship and unless he comes in and blows socks off McK in pre season then he is likely to be elsewhere next season either permanently or on loan
Cameron Humphreys (19) - Fantastic prospect, and one I expect to see kept around the squad next season despite talk of a loan spell but won't be one who can play week in-week out in the midfield
We play a very dominant form of football, and that often relies on having players who are better than their direct competitors - I worry looking at that midfield that Morsy may be the only one who can step up and do that (and that is far from guaranteed) with potential for Camara to do so (but that is no more than hope rather than expectation).
Morsy aside though, I wouldn't be worried if we lost all our other senior midfielders as they all feel like squad options who can be relied on in specific situations and for a dozen or so games.
The step up is going to be huge, and think we need serious investment there and can see us going out and spending big fees on a couple of options there. Wouldn't surprise me if we ended up something like:
1 MEGA SIGNING 2 Morsy 3 Jack Taylor or similar 4 Luongo 5 Humphreys
I think Luongo can make the grade if he stays fit, but both he and Morsy lack a bit of pace, and may struggle in midfield battles against the better teams. They would have to be on their top game all game, every game.
Weird how the club hasn’t announced anything about Luongo yet. I agree in large part but I have this odd belief Ball will come good with a pre season, we will definitely see 2 come in in that area and maybe 4.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Evans vs Skuse is comparing apples and oranges though. Different skill sets. Skuse during his peak years could get around the pitch and was pretty dynamic. Evans isn't. And the Championship is a league where dynamism and athleticism has to be a given.
[Post edited 5 Jun 2023 9:55]
I agree they aren't comparable, but Skuse and dynamic in the same sentence made me chuckle.
The good thing about Morsy and Luongo is we know they work very well as a partnership, and won't have a problem putting up with the physicality of the league. Saying that I wouldn't have been surprised had we let Luongo go just because I agree that area of the pitch needs a fair bit of TLC and we're up against it in terms of squad size as it is. Plus between them they're never miles away from injury/suspension so will need a top quality option in there anyway.
The tricky thing is finding someone to take players of our hands but if we can move Evans on then it's a no brainer for me. Never thought he was as good as people liked to claim, was a major part of our problem with breaking down intensely defensive set-ups imo and has had injury problems which make him unreliable anyway. Ball's versatility could save him but can't see him being anything other than a back-up anyway.
Camara's the interesting one for me - argument to be made his skillset might suit us more in this league than the previous one as we might not have as much control of possession as we've been used to and his ability to get across all areas of the pitch, recover the ball and drive with it upfield may be useful. As you say though was seen as a top midfielder in league one then suddenly in the league above coming back from a long-term injury so hard to know how he'll manage. Maybe one for McKenna and co. to monitor over the summer before making a final decision.
Hopefully the new recruitment team and the Data Dashboard have been hard at work and we can see some interesting results this summer.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
I don’t think the step up to the Championship is too great, but if we want to challenge top six, we certainly need the midfield area looking at, as you rightly suggest. I’d keep Humphreys at the club rather than loan him. He’s progressing at such a rate and could play an important part next year.
The other four in your summary at the end of the post seem fair to me.
I'd go along with the OP..Although I'm not concerned about Morsy age/fitness wise. He hasn't had a single niggle in two years.And leads a very clean and professional life style. I'm a bit miffed as to where Camara would fit in, tbf.. Don't think a jump from L2 to Championship is as straight forward as some are suggesting in Miz case. So don't think he'll feature, either sold on or loaned out. Humphreys, could benefit from staying in the building until January. Imo. Give him a chance to kick on around our first team.And give us a chance to identify the "right" loan move, if that's the case, in Jan. Assuming it's a L1 loan. A lot depends on Evans, Ball and Camara's recovery/fitness...We probably need 2 MF signings. But could see us adding 1 in the Summer, and maybe another in Jan, if needed.. The other question is...What is the clubs target this season? When GC came in, I thought perhaps a 5 year plan to get from L1 to Prem (hyperthetical but realistic timescale)..If that's the case, then we may spend a season consolidating, squad wise.Looking for a safe mid table finish.But preparing our squad for a big push next season, with the addition of a few "Prem ready" players? Most of our planning has been spot on over the last 18 months since KM arrived. I guess we'll get a better feel for our expectations by the level of recruitment we do in the summer. My guess is quality over quantity. Striker and CM are probably the priority positions..
0
Central midfield.... on 12:43 - Jun 5 with 2801 views
Thanks everyone for responses - some interesting comments in there.
I'm not mega concerned about ages in regards to playing - but more it's difficult to expect a player the wrong side of 30 to improve their game drastically from levels they have previously reached in their career - and in Luongo's case to suddenly become more robust when struggled with injuries for a while.
I was speaking to someone who works in recruitment for an EFL success story a few weeks back, and he was saying how what is seen as 'good coaching' isn't generally improving players massively as you can't with ability. It is about working out their weaknesses and strengths, building roles to suit them and the rest of the team, building styles and instilling principles into squad that are worked over and over and over throughout the season so the whole squad is at a level.
Most clubs run on the FA 4 corner model - noted below. It looks as though what we have done at ITFC excellently over last year is get the Physcological (man management, information giving, clarity of style and thought etc), Physical (conditioning of team, especially through second half of season been excellent) and the Social (respect between staff and players, good characters etc) all absolutely spot on. With the Techincal side of it, this is the place we can upgrade the team, and quite simply it is by getting better players and ensuring they still hit the heights on the other 3 corners of development.
If we want to challenge for promotion, we will need to improve, and I can't see that anyone at the club will settle for less than that. We will be as aggressive in our recruitment as anyone in England this summer - and will want to build on what we have here - but just expecting 8 or 9 players to step up from L1 to the top end of the Champ isn't going to happen - it is going to be ruthless and we will see some surprise players going.
Central midfield.... on 12:20 - Jun 5 by Churchman
I don’t think the step up to the Championship is too great, but if we want to challenge top six, we certainly need the midfield area looking at, as you rightly suggest. I’d keep Humphreys at the club rather than loan him. He’s progressing at such a rate and could play an important part next year.
The other four in your summary at the end of the post seem fair to me.
Last year we had 25 senior pros, plus Harry Clarke, Tyreece John-Jules, Cameron Humphreys who all played a part - we don't have the option to bring in younger loan players to pad out squad and McKenna seems to like a big one.
Humphreys, and maybe even Baggott, may need to stay here so that McKenna has enough players for next season in the main group
Thanks everyone for responses - some interesting comments in there.
I'm not mega concerned about ages in regards to playing - but more it's difficult to expect a player the wrong side of 30 to improve their game drastically from levels they have previously reached in their career - and in Luongo's case to suddenly become more robust when struggled with injuries for a while.
I was speaking to someone who works in recruitment for an EFL success story a few weeks back, and he was saying how what is seen as 'good coaching' isn't generally improving players massively as you can't with ability. It is about working out their weaknesses and strengths, building roles to suit them and the rest of the team, building styles and instilling principles into squad that are worked over and over and over throughout the season so the whole squad is at a level.
Most clubs run on the FA 4 corner model - noted below. It looks as though what we have done at ITFC excellently over last year is get the Physcological (man management, information giving, clarity of style and thought etc), Physical (conditioning of team, especially through second half of season been excellent) and the Social (respect between staff and players, good characters etc) all absolutely spot on. With the Techincal side of it, this is the place we can upgrade the team, and quite simply it is by getting better players and ensuring they still hit the heights on the other 3 corners of development.
If we want to challenge for promotion, we will need to improve, and I can't see that anyone at the club will settle for less than that. We will be as aggressive in our recruitment as anyone in England this summer - and will want to build on what we have here - but just expecting 8 or 9 players to step up from L1 to the top end of the Champ isn't going to happen - it is going to be ruthless and we will see some surprise players going.
As things stand. Leif is the only player i am 100% confident is a top player in his position in the champ. I know he hasn't played loads of games there. But quality left backs in this country are hard to come by, he is one of them.
But expecting Woolfie, Broadhead, Chaplin to be in that group as well. As you say we have to be ruthless.
Thanks everyone for responses - some interesting comments in there.
I'm not mega concerned about ages in regards to playing - but more it's difficult to expect a player the wrong side of 30 to improve their game drastically from levels they have previously reached in their career - and in Luongo's case to suddenly become more robust when struggled with injuries for a while.
I was speaking to someone who works in recruitment for an EFL success story a few weeks back, and he was saying how what is seen as 'good coaching' isn't generally improving players massively as you can't with ability. It is about working out their weaknesses and strengths, building roles to suit them and the rest of the team, building styles and instilling principles into squad that are worked over and over and over throughout the season so the whole squad is at a level.
Most clubs run on the FA 4 corner model - noted below. It looks as though what we have done at ITFC excellently over last year is get the Physcological (man management, information giving, clarity of style and thought etc), Physical (conditioning of team, especially through second half of season been excellent) and the Social (respect between staff and players, good characters etc) all absolutely spot on. With the Techincal side of it, this is the place we can upgrade the team, and quite simply it is by getting better players and ensuring they still hit the heights on the other 3 corners of development.
If we want to challenge for promotion, we will need to improve, and I can't see that anyone at the club will settle for less than that. We will be as aggressive in our recruitment as anyone in England this summer - and will want to build on what we have here - but just expecting 8 or 9 players to step up from L1 to the top end of the Champ isn't going to happen - it is going to be ruthless and we will see some surprise players going.
That's an interesting model. I suppose by upskilling in the the 01 quadrant too aggressively there's a risk of eroding some of the hard work already done within the others in what is a well organised and tight knit group. Certainly think there will be some quality additions coming in though, not least because the owners aren't going to be content with treading water in the 2nd tier. They'll want a return and that's only going to be significant in the top tier, and will know we'll need some help to get there.
As for targets, I think it will be more of the same. Bigger fees on <25 year olds who we think have potential and possible resale value. Perhaps someone like Connell at Barnsley or Van Hecke from Brighton.
Bigger wages perhaps on some older players on lower fees or free. Rhys Healey?
I can see a loanee or 2 from the Premier League. The reputation McKenna has can only help in that, and now we have the league status to be considered for the higher ceiling players (eg. Diallo). I think we could benefit from a couple.
0
Central midfield.... on 13:06 - Jun 5 with 2620 views
That's an interesting model. I suppose by upskilling in the the 01 quadrant too aggressively there's a risk of eroding some of the hard work already done within the others in what is a well organised and tight knit group. Certainly think there will be some quality additions coming in though, not least because the owners aren't going to be content with treading water in the 2nd tier. They'll want a return and that's only going to be significant in the top tier, and will know we'll need some help to get there.
As for targets, I think it will be more of the same. Bigger fees on <25 year olds who we think have potential and possible resale value. Perhaps someone like Connell at Barnsley or Van Hecke from Brighton.
Bigger wages perhaps on some older players on lower fees or free. Rhys Healey?
I can see a loanee or 2 from the Premier League. The reputation McKenna has can only help in that, and now we have the league status to be considered for the higher ceiling players (eg. Diallo). I think we could benefit from a couple.
I was waiting for someone to mention Rhys Healey. Fascinating player.
Thanks everyone for responses - some interesting comments in there.
I'm not mega concerned about ages in regards to playing - but more it's difficult to expect a player the wrong side of 30 to improve their game drastically from levels they have previously reached in their career - and in Luongo's case to suddenly become more robust when struggled with injuries for a while.
I was speaking to someone who works in recruitment for an EFL success story a few weeks back, and he was saying how what is seen as 'good coaching' isn't generally improving players massively as you can't with ability. It is about working out their weaknesses and strengths, building roles to suit them and the rest of the team, building styles and instilling principles into squad that are worked over and over and over throughout the season so the whole squad is at a level.
Most clubs run on the FA 4 corner model - noted below. It looks as though what we have done at ITFC excellently over last year is get the Physcological (man management, information giving, clarity of style and thought etc), Physical (conditioning of team, especially through second half of season been excellent) and the Social (respect between staff and players, good characters etc) all absolutely spot on. With the Techincal side of it, this is the place we can upgrade the team, and quite simply it is by getting better players and ensuring they still hit the heights on the other 3 corners of development.
If we want to challenge for promotion, we will need to improve, and I can't see that anyone at the club will settle for less than that. We will be as aggressive in our recruitment as anyone in England this summer - and will want to build on what we have here - but just expecting 8 or 9 players to step up from L1 to the top end of the Champ isn't going to happen - it is going to be ruthless and we will see some surprise players going.
What sort of numbers do you think in/out? It feels to me like half the recognised starting line up could be different by the end of August.
[Post edited 5 Jun 2023 13:12]
0
Central midfield.... on 13:15 - Jun 5 with 2554 views
Central midfield.... on 13:06 - Jun 5 by TRUE_BLUE123
I was waiting for someone to mention Rhys Healey. Fascinating player.
I thought he was a bit slow and he's had a very long lay off with an injury which won't help that, but between those 2 periods he delivered some good numbers for MK Dons and Toulouse. Not sure either of those were at the same level as the Championship though, 2nd tier in France isn't as strong as it is in England.
Interesting to see where he ends up, doubt its with us but wouldn't surprise me if its some at this level.
0
Central midfield.... on 13:18 - Jun 5 with 2515 views
Thanks everyone for responses - some interesting comments in there.
I'm not mega concerned about ages in regards to playing - but more it's difficult to expect a player the wrong side of 30 to improve their game drastically from levels they have previously reached in their career - and in Luongo's case to suddenly become more robust when struggled with injuries for a while.
I was speaking to someone who works in recruitment for an EFL success story a few weeks back, and he was saying how what is seen as 'good coaching' isn't generally improving players massively as you can't with ability. It is about working out their weaknesses and strengths, building roles to suit them and the rest of the team, building styles and instilling principles into squad that are worked over and over and over throughout the season so the whole squad is at a level.
Most clubs run on the FA 4 corner model - noted below. It looks as though what we have done at ITFC excellently over last year is get the Physcological (man management, information giving, clarity of style and thought etc), Physical (conditioning of team, especially through second half of season been excellent) and the Social (respect between staff and players, good characters etc) all absolutely spot on. With the Techincal side of it, this is the place we can upgrade the team, and quite simply it is by getting better players and ensuring they still hit the heights on the other 3 corners of development.
If we want to challenge for promotion, we will need to improve, and I can't see that anyone at the club will settle for less than that. We will be as aggressive in our recruitment as anyone in England this summer - and will want to build on what we have here - but just expecting 8 or 9 players to step up from L1 to the top end of the Champ isn't going to happen - it is going to be ruthless and we will see some surprise players going.
Indeed.
Yes, we might have beaten Rotherham, then drawn with and narrowly lost to eventual champions Burnley, but that is only a limited pointer as to how we might do next season.
Cup games throw up unexpeted results, lower-ranked teams play above themselves. Not quite the same as doing it consistently over a 46 game season, on a grim day in Stoke, for example. And againt teams more evenly matched in player skill than some of those we faced in L1.
That's an interesting model. I suppose by upskilling in the the 01 quadrant too aggressively there's a risk of eroding some of the hard work already done within the others in what is a well organised and tight knit group. Certainly think there will be some quality additions coming in though, not least because the owners aren't going to be content with treading water in the 2nd tier. They'll want a return and that's only going to be significant in the top tier, and will know we'll need some help to get there.
As for targets, I think it will be more of the same. Bigger fees on <25 year olds who we think have potential and possible resale value. Perhaps someone like Connell at Barnsley or Van Hecke from Brighton.
Bigger wages perhaps on some older players on lower fees or free. Rhys Healey?
I can see a loanee or 2 from the Premier League. The reputation McKenna has can only help in that, and now we have the league status to be considered for the higher ceiling players (eg. Diallo). I think we could benefit from a couple.
Yep, your first sentence is the absolute key - and you hope that there is an understanding that whilst the January window went incredibly well, that is a once a decade success where all 4 players come in and impress and improve the team.......that won't happen again as there will always be misses in there.
Perhaps we could try having a 3 man central midfield in pre-season. There may be games where its needed rather than 2 number 10s moreso in the Championship than League One.
0
Central midfield.... on 13:52 - Jun 5 with 2280 views
I'm not sure Walton is a definite. He's a probable for sure. But part of me wonders if we need a gk with quicker and better footwork for football around the back. He's got much better over the season but he's not a natural at it imo.
Clarke... KM mentioned they had a role in mind for him.. could that be the fullback role he's had. Or something else in mind for him?
Central midfield.... on 13:52 - Jun 5 by FrimleyBlue
I'm not sure Walton is a definite. He's a probable for sure. But part of me wonders if we need a gk with quicker and better footwork for football around the back. He's got much better over the season but he's not a natural at it imo.
Clarke... KM mentioned they had a role in mind for him.. could that be the fullback role he's had. Or something else in mind for him?
Just have to watch some of the big teams and what theya re doing with their full backs to see the Clarke role - something like Ben White at Arsenal
This is a good video to watch - which shows how he is the key player between them going from a 2-3-5 with the ball to a 3-2-5 formation and how that opens things up.
The difference between how we play compared to Arsenal, as there are lots of similar principles in play, is that we have Leif Davis push on to be a wide attacker from LB, whereas Zinchenko drifts into midfield and occupies the role Mass Luongo plays for us.
Central midfield.... on 13:52 - Jun 5 by FrimleyBlue
I'm not sure Walton is a definite. He's a probable for sure. But part of me wonders if we need a gk with quicker and better footwork for football around the back. He's got much better over the season but he's not a natural at it imo.
Clarke... KM mentioned they had a role in mind for him.. could that be the fullback role he's had. Or something else in mind for him?
I don't think there are many outside the premier league as good as Walton.
Clarke will go into the middle next to Woolf. He's suspended for the 1st game but I think that's where he'll ultimately come back.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
