| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase 17:16 - Jul 31 with 3466 views | noggin |
Disappointing? |  |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:21 - Jul 31 with 2213 views | Herbivore |
It's a Catch 22 for public sector workers when striking for better pay, as a decade plus of real terms pay cuts means most workers can't afford the pay deductions that strike action brings, at least not indefinitely. |  |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:23 - Jul 31 with 2182 views | DJR |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:21 - Jul 31 by Herbivore |
It's a Catch 22 for public sector workers when striking for better pay, as a decade plus of real terms pay cuts means most workers can't afford the pay deductions that strike action brings, at least not indefinitely. |
In this case it is only NEU members who suffered deductions. Members of other unions, which didn't go on strike, will get the benefit of the deal without any deductions. That is a little unfair, as is the case when non-unionised members get the benefit of pay settlements.
As it is my daughter will start her teaching career on £30,000 rather than £28,000, although no doubt this will mean differentials will be eroded, to use a term I haven't heard in years. [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 17:35]
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:24 - Jul 31 with 2165 views | Zx1988 |
What are the terms? Is it a proper pay rise, or does the money have to be found from within existing budgets? |  |
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| 30 hours work a week.... on 17:25 - Jul 31 with 2164 views | Bloots |
....3 months a year holiday.
And a 6.5% pay rise!!??
Money for old rope, innit. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:31 - Jul 31 with 2135 views | ipswichtillidie |
There seems no cohesion or appetite for a fight either certainly not from the teachers I spoke to local to myself. The fact that there are also various unions means their strength is undermined and their organisation is poor. They should and could have alot of power if they knew how to run a “union” properly and only then will they get the fair pay they deserve. Especially under a government like we have now. |  |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:33 - Jul 31 with 2122 views | Herbivore |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:31 - Jul 31 by ipswichtillidie |
There seems no cohesion or appetite for a fight either certainly not from the teachers I spoke to local to myself. The fact that there are also various unions means their strength is undermined and their organisation is poor. They should and could have alot of power if they knew how to run a “union” properly and only then will they get the fair pay they deserve. Especially under a government like we have now. |
Yes, the multiple unions doesn't really help their cause much as it makes it far harder to take mass action. Some other industries are much more effective in that regard. | |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:34 - Jul 31 with 2112 views | DJR |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:24 - Jul 31 by Zx1988 |
What are the terms? Is it a proper pay rise, or does the money have to be found from within existing budgets? |
I think there was something along the lines that the money would be found from within the education budget but not the schools' budget.
So cuts elsewhere eg. further education. [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 17:46]
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| 30 hours work a week.... on 17:35 - Jul 31 with 2108 views | DJR |
| 30 hours work a week.... on 17:25 - Jul 31 by Bloots |
....3 months a year holiday.
And a 6.5% pay rise!!??
Money for old rope, innit. |
Oh, you tease! | | | |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:39 - Jul 31 with 2095 views | Rimsy |
Teachers are handsomely paid for the hours they put in, it's still a great career. Great pension still, even though not as good as it was. I don't get this wanting to raise wages, for anyone, to pre austerity rates. Austerity meant everyone taking a hit on wages, not deferring it til later. |  |
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| 30 hours work a week.... on 17:39 - Jul 31 with 2084 views | noggin |
| 30 hours work a week.... on 17:25 - Jul 31 by Bloots |
....3 months a year holiday.
And a 6.5% pay rise!!??
Money for old rope, innit. |
Brilliant. | |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:41 - Jul 31 with 2067 views | noggin |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:39 - Jul 31 by Rimsy |
Teachers are handsomely paid for the hours they put in, it's still a great career. Great pension still, even though not as good as it was. I don't get this wanting to raise wages, for anyone, to pre austerity rates. Austerity meant everyone taking a hit on wages, not deferring it til later. |
Yeah ok. | |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:42 - Jul 31 with 2054 views | Herbivore |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:39 - Jul 31 by Rimsy |
Teachers are handsomely paid for the hours they put in, it's still a great career. Great pension still, even though not as good as it was. I don't get this wanting to raise wages, for anyone, to pre austerity rates. Austerity meant everyone taking a hit on wages, not deferring it til later. |
Okay, boomer. | |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:43 - Jul 31 with 2043 views | DJR |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:39 - Jul 31 by Rimsy |
Teachers are handsomely paid for the hours they put in, it's still a great career. Great pension still, even though not as good as it was. I don't get this wanting to raise wages, for anyone, to pre austerity rates. Austerity meant everyone taking a hit on wages, not deferring it til later. |
You're David Cameron, and I claim my £5. [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 17:45]
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| I think he was actually being serious! (n/t) on 17:45 - Jul 31 with 2026 views | Bloots |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:43 - Jul 31 by DJR |
You're David Cameron, and I claim my £5. [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 17:45]
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| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| I think he was actually being serious! (n/t) on 17:46 - Jul 31 with 2022 views | DJR |
| I think he was actually being serious! (n/t) on 17:45 - Jul 31 by Bloots |
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I think that too. | | | |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:48 - Jul 31 with 2014 views | Keno |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:39 - Jul 31 by Rimsy |
Teachers are handsomely paid for the hours they put in, it's still a great career. Great pension still, even though not as good as it was. I don't get this wanting to raise wages, for anyone, to pre austerity rates. Austerity meant everyone taking a hit on wages, not deferring it til later. |
"Austerity meant everyone taking a hit on wages, not deferring it til later"
unless you are an MP or friend of a Tory with a sideline in dodgy PPE |  |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:49 - Jul 31 with 1998 views | noggin |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:48 - Jul 31 by Keno |
"Austerity meant everyone taking a hit on wages, not deferring it til later"
unless you are an MP or friend of a Tory with a sideline in dodgy PPE |
Or Rimsy. | |
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| 30 hours work a week.... on 17:50 - Jul 31 with 1993 views | Churchman |
| 30 hours work a week.... on 17:25 - Jul 31 by Bloots |
....3 months a year holiday.
And a 6.5% pay rise!!??
Money for old rope, innit. |
Nice try |  | | |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:53 - Jul 31 with 1975 views | Dubtractor |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:39 - Jul 31 by Rimsy |
Teachers are handsomely paid for the hours they put in, it's still a great career. Great pension still, even though not as good as it was. I don't get this wanting to raise wages, for anyone, to pre austerity rates. Austerity meant everyone taking a hit on wages, not deferring it til later. |
You realise that 6.5% isn't even keeping up with current inflation, let alone getting to pre austerity levels, right? |  |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:55 - Jul 31 with 1964 views | Mullet |
Personally? Yes. I voted No, wanted to fight on.
However, there are loads of factors and misconceptions, some in this thread already which means while I'm annoyed, I'm not furious at colleagues who are thinking short term or just exhausted.
I'll be surprised if the study gets published, but one of several surveys on a mass scale from the DfE and others are showing this has been the worst year for teachers as best they can measure it. TES recently analysed a load of behaviour data and then stuck it behind a paywall, showing the huge surge in sanctions since COVID and that the pattern was already rising before lockdown.
Pay is not good enough, retention shocking and recruitment even worse. That's simply numbers let alone the subjective reasons and judgements around them. The profession is in a tailspin and it will get close to a point where it isn't recoverable without costing way more. In every sense. |  |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 18:00 - Jul 31 with 1935 views | Mullet |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:23 - Jul 31 by DJR |
In this case it is only NEU members who suffered deductions. Members of other unions, which didn't go on strike, will get the benefit of the deal without any deductions. That is a little unfair, as is the case when non-unionised members get the benefit of pay settlements.
As it is my daughter will start her teaching career on £30,000 rather than £28,000, although no doubt this will mean differentials will be eroded, to use a term I haven't heard in years. [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 17:35]
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Some NEU members. Sorry to be pedantic, but they are the largest union because they have so many non-teaching members and bolster their numbers through TUC agreements etc.
Also, a lot of NEU staff didn't strike, some didn't strike at all (pretending children were off school due to strikes, faking illness on the day then having more time off as sick leave to cover that) which disgusted me greatly. But every profession has individuals who behave that way.
One of the biggest issues, was that NASUWT and ASCOL have rather outdated perceptions so their memberships are swollen by teachers who refuse to strike when balloted as they are seen as less radical.
However, you now have a situation of factionalism in the NEU where the "socialists" are briefing against the leadership in varying degrees of openness and nastiness at a local and national level. | |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 18:07 - Jul 31 with 1907 views | Mullet |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:33 - Jul 31 by Herbivore |
Yes, the multiple unions doesn't really help their cause much as it makes it far harder to take mass action. Some other industries are much more effective in that regard. |
Actually I disagree. I like that we have multiple unions as it gives individuals a chance to engage because they can shop around. What is the issue is the vast number of employers and the disgusting laws Gove brought in around strikes.
Whilst I have no enmity to the other unions despite some of their members behaving badly, or saying things to divide, I always work with them on the ground where I can and want to hear other voices and agendas.
The rules and realities that have caused this perception of disunity E.g. a multi-academy trust is an employer in several schools, but each school has to organise as individual institutions etc. So if a MAT has 20 schools in it isn't counted as one group but 20 groups and the balance can mean you might have 3 members in one school who are easily identifiable and don;t have the solidarity they need.
Combine that with the manpower needed and the lack of people to a rep, as well as all the stuff around having to vote by post and the high bar unions need to reach etc. it's the atomisation of the membership which is the massive hurdle and a factor the RMT et al. don't have at all.
This was all engineered purposely by the Tories and it is slowly coming back to bite them, as they never envisioned teachers would get to this point. For all that's wrong with individuals who aren't engaged with the union and see it as an insurance policy they hope to never need, things have got so bad that everything that was done to smash teacher solidarity and unionisation still hasn't worked.
Hence why the fight around working hours and conditions are so crucial and still on the table. There aren't enough staff now, it's really going to show when everyone is at their legal limits for everything and still more is expected on top of all the stuff we do for free etc. | |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 18:09 - Jul 31 with 1899 views | Mullet |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 17:39 - Jul 31 by Rimsy |
Teachers are handsomely paid for the hours they put in, it's still a great career. Great pension still, even though not as good as it was. I don't get this wanting to raise wages, for anyone, to pre austerity rates. Austerity meant everyone taking a hit on wages, not deferring it til later. |
How long did you teach for and what sort of setting? The pension you're on if retired is an entirely different beast to the one and my fellow teachers are on.
Given the average age in the profession is now 28 (!!!) the amount of elder teachers on the old pension is so small as to be negligible. I'm all ears, please explain away Rimsy. | |
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| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 18:41 - Jul 31 with 1816 views | DJR |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 18:00 - Jul 31 by Mullet |
Some NEU members. Sorry to be pedantic, but they are the largest union because they have so many non-teaching members and bolster their numbers through TUC agreements etc.
Also, a lot of NEU staff didn't strike, some didn't strike at all (pretending children were off school due to strikes, faking illness on the day then having more time off as sick leave to cover that) which disgusted me greatly. But every profession has individuals who behave that way.
One of the biggest issues, was that NASUWT and ASCOL have rather outdated perceptions so their memberships are swollen by teachers who refuse to strike when balloted as they are seen as less radical.
However, you now have a situation of factionalism in the NEU where the "socialists" are briefing against the leadership in varying degrees of openness and nastiness at a local and national level. |
Thanks for the clarification. | | | |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 18:43 - Jul 31 with 1810 views | DJR |
| Teaching unions accept 6.5% pay increase on 18:07 - Jul 31 by Mullet |
Actually I disagree. I like that we have multiple unions as it gives individuals a chance to engage because they can shop around. What is the issue is the vast number of employers and the disgusting laws Gove brought in around strikes.
Whilst I have no enmity to the other unions despite some of their members behaving badly, or saying things to divide, I always work with them on the ground where I can and want to hear other voices and agendas.
The rules and realities that have caused this perception of disunity E.g. a multi-academy trust is an employer in several schools, but each school has to organise as individual institutions etc. So if a MAT has 20 schools in it isn't counted as one group but 20 groups and the balance can mean you might have 3 members in one school who are easily identifiable and don;t have the solidarity they need.
Combine that with the manpower needed and the lack of people to a rep, as well as all the stuff around having to vote by post and the high bar unions need to reach etc. it's the atomisation of the membership which is the massive hurdle and a factor the RMT et al. don't have at all.
This was all engineered purposely by the Tories and it is slowly coming back to bite them, as they never envisioned teachers would get to this point. For all that's wrong with individuals who aren't engaged with the union and see it as an insurance policy they hope to never need, things have got so bad that everything that was done to smash teacher solidarity and unionisation still hasn't worked.
Hence why the fight around working hours and conditions are so crucial and still on the table. There aren't enough staff now, it's really going to show when everyone is at their legal limits for everything and still more is expected on top of all the stuff we do for free etc. |
Well said. | | | |
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