| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 15:01 - Sep 22 with 2853 views | jayessess |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 14:00 - Sep 22 by MattinLondon |
It won’t happen of course, but I do think that it’ll be interesting if the Tories suddenly performed a gigantic U-Turn and proposed rejoining the EU but on the same terms which the country left.
They’ll have Labour on the ropes - will they campaign to stay out in the next election which will attract the rabid brexiters. Or echo the Tories and risk being seen as their shadow and not having policies of their own.
It’ll put a lot of people in a very awkward position. |
Unpopular left-wing leaders are invariably confronted with enormous pressure to "move to the centre" and look to attract supporters from the other side of the ideological divide, the same is rarely true for right-wing leaders.
This Conservative Government has been drowning in the polls for nearly two years now, I've never seen any pundit suggest they could arrest that unpopularity by moving towards their opponents on any question (be it Brexit, environmentalism, culture war, immigration, public sector pay). More the opposite, the worse their polling gets, the more they're encouraged to play to their own supporters. [Post edited 22 Sep 2023 15:45]
|  |
|  |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 15:18 - Sep 22 with 2819 views | giant_stow |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 18:24 - Sep 21 by factual_blue |
The Pound is rubbish and best forgotten. It was ruined by Churchill back in the 1920s. |
Was that when we left the Gold Standard? Not to mess with a historian like you, didn't that save us from the worst of the 30s depression? Could be wrong.
Anyway, I'm a remainer who likes the pound and the control / flexibility it gives us - joining the Euro doesn't seem wise when every European county is in a different situation. Sorry to break rank fellow remainers. |  |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 15:31 - Sep 22 with 2793 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 14:00 - Sep 22 by MattinLondon |
It won’t happen of course, but I do think that it’ll be interesting if the Tories suddenly performed a gigantic U-Turn and proposed rejoining the EU but on the same terms which the country left.
They’ll have Labour on the ropes - will they campaign to stay out in the next election which will attract the rabid brexiters. Or echo the Tories and risk being seen as their shadow and not having policies of their own.
It’ll put a lot of people in a very awkward position. |
Christ I hope not.
It'd make more people more likely to vote for them, and then they will probably back out of doing it anyway. |  |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 16:01 - Sep 22 with 2766 views | jayessess |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 15:18 - Sep 22 by giant_stow |
Was that when we left the Gold Standard? Not to mess with a historian like you, didn't that save us from the worst of the 30s depression? Could be wrong.
Anyway, I'm a remainer who likes the pound and the control / flexibility it gives us - joining the Euro doesn't seem wise when every European county is in a different situation. Sorry to break rank fellow remainers. |
As Chancellor of the Exchequer Churchill reintroduces a version of the Gold Standard in 1925. It's technically slightly different from the pre-FWW version.
Depends what you mean from "worst of the '30s depression" really. The 1925 Gold Standard over-values the pound, which depresses trade (and contributes to the mid-1920s depression and the General Strike). It's deflationary though, so maybe holds down inflation post-1929 (wouldn't have helped with unemployment mind and blind adherence to fiscal orthodoxy is what breaks the 1929-31 Labour Government). | |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 16:32 - Sep 22 with 2737 views | giant_stow |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 16:01 - Sep 22 by jayessess |
As Chancellor of the Exchequer Churchill reintroduces a version of the Gold Standard in 1925. It's technically slightly different from the pre-FWW version.
Depends what you mean from "worst of the '30s depression" really. The 1925 Gold Standard over-values the pound, which depresses trade (and contributes to the mid-1920s depression and the General Strike). It's deflationary though, so maybe holds down inflation post-1929 (wouldn't have helped with unemployment mind and blind adherence to fiscal orthodoxy is what breaks the 1929-31 Labour Government). |
Interesting stuff, thanks. Rather than argue a point I'm ill-equipped for, I'll take what you're saying! | |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 17:34 - Sep 22 with 2707 views | jayessess |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 16:32 - Sep 22 by giant_stow |
Interesting stuff, thanks. Rather than argue a point I'm ill-equipped for, I'll take what you're saying! |
If it's the kind of thing that you'd like to learn more about, Barry Eichengreen, Golden Fetters, is a good book (I am a historian, but economic history isn't technically my specialty!). | |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 18:17 - Sep 22 with 2690 views | giant_stow |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 17:34 - Sep 22 by jayessess |
If it's the kind of thing that you'd like to learn more about, Barry Eichengreen, Golden Fetters, is a good book (I am a historian, but economic history isn't technically my specialty!). |
Appreciate the recommendation - I do have a non-academic interest* in that sort of thing, so mean it.
*as in not studying - just for its own sake. [Post edited 22 Sep 2023 18:17]
| |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 19:08 - Sep 22 with 2674 views | jayessess |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 18:17 - Sep 22 by giant_stow |
Appreciate the recommendation - I do have a non-academic interest* in that sort of thing, so mean it.
*as in not studying - just for its own sake. [Post edited 22 Sep 2023 18:17]
|
for its own sake is the best reason to read anything really! | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 19:22 - Sep 22 with 2672 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 15:18 - Sep 22 by giant_stow |
Was that when we left the Gold Standard? Not to mess with a historian like you, didn't that save us from the worst of the 30s depression? Could be wrong.
Anyway, I'm a remainer who likes the pound and the control / flexibility it gives us - joining the Euro doesn't seem wise when every European county is in a different situation. Sorry to break rank fellow remainers. |
Not all remainers are in favour of joining the Euro.... |  |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 19:41 - Sep 22 with 2663 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 19:22 - Sep 22 by Ewan_Oozami |
Not all remainers are in favour of joining the Euro.... |
But all people in favour of joining the Euro are remainers  |  |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 08:39 - Sep 23 with 2573 views | WeWereZombies |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 17:34 - Sep 22 by jayessess |
If it's the kind of thing that you'd like to learn more about, Barry Eichengreen, Golden Fetters, is a good book (I am a historian, but economic history isn't technically my specialty!). |
Would be interesting to hear your opinion on this hour of radio I listened to last night (whilst doing half an hour's ironing...i carried on ironing for the whole hour, useful programme):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0000n40
It's about the Banking Crisis of 2008 with input from Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling and other Downing Street insiders, would that we had politicians of their capability around in positions of power today. |  |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 09:25 - Sep 23 with 2557 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 08:39 - Sep 23 by WeWereZombies |
Would be interesting to hear your opinion on this hour of radio I listened to last night (whilst doing half an hour's ironing...i carried on ironing for the whole hour, useful programme):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0000n40
It's about the Banking Crisis of 2008 with input from Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling and other Downing Street insiders, would that we had politicians of their capability around in positions of power today. |
As the oft quoted IFS said about Brown's handling of the economy leading up to the 2008 banking crisis....
"The UK was in a worse position relative to most comparable countries. Most OECD governments did more to reduce their structural deficit during the period from 1997 to 2007 than Labour did. This fiscal position formed the backdrop to the financial crisis.”
Had Blair remained PM he would have removed Brown as Chancellor and implemented the 2005 sending review, which would have focused on cutting the deficit three years before the crash. The UK economy would have been in much better position to deal with the aftermath of the crash.
"In his memoir A Journey, on page 526, the former prime minister writes that he had "an interesting debate, not quite a contretemps", with Gordon Brown during the 2005 election over spending. "My view was that we had reached the limit of spending," Blair writes. "Even with the economy still growing I could sense that enough was enough."
The following February, as described on pages 574-5, Blair launched an internal exercise "after much Treasury [ie Brown] dissent" which was titled the Fundamental Savings Review (FSR). Blair's aim was to:
"[M]ove beyond the catch-up investment in public services and instead focus on a smaller, more strategic government. This was, in my mind, right in itself but also critical to dealing with the 'big state' and 'tax and spend' arguments that I was sure, in time, would pull apart our coalition in the country, and therefore our ability to win. It went back to the argument, already described, during the 2005 election. Unfortunately, the FSR was fought every inch of the way and was the one element I was unable to put in place prior to departure, it being the one that really did depend on Gordon's departure."
100% agree with your assessment of Darling. A grown up politician who was very cool during the crisis and doesn't get anywhere near the amount of credit that Brown seems tohave claimed. [Post edited 23 Sep 2023 9:39]
| |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 09:40 - Sep 23 with 2542 views | WeWereZombies |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 09:25 - Sep 23 by GlasgowBlue |
As the oft quoted IFS said about Brown's handling of the economy leading up to the 2008 banking crisis....
"The UK was in a worse position relative to most comparable countries. Most OECD governments did more to reduce their structural deficit during the period from 1997 to 2007 than Labour did. This fiscal position formed the backdrop to the financial crisis.”
Had Blair remained PM he would have removed Brown as Chancellor and implemented the 2005 sending review, which would have focused on cutting the deficit three years before the crash. The UK economy would have been in much better position to deal with the aftermath of the crash.
"In his memoir A Journey, on page 526, the former prime minister writes that he had "an interesting debate, not quite a contretemps", with Gordon Brown during the 2005 election over spending. "My view was that we had reached the limit of spending," Blair writes. "Even with the economy still growing I could sense that enough was enough."
The following February, as described on pages 574-5, Blair launched an internal exercise "after much Treasury [ie Brown] dissent" which was titled the Fundamental Savings Review (FSR). Blair's aim was to:
"[M]ove beyond the catch-up investment in public services and instead focus on a smaller, more strategic government. This was, in my mind, right in itself but also critical to dealing with the 'big state' and 'tax and spend' arguments that I was sure, in time, would pull apart our coalition in the country, and therefore our ability to win. It went back to the argument, already described, during the 2005 election. Unfortunately, the FSR was fought every inch of the way and was the one element I was unable to put in place prior to departure, it being the one that really did depend on Gordon's departure."
100% agree with your assessment of Darling. A grown up politician who was very cool during the crisis and doesn't get anywhere near the amount of credit that Brown seems tohave claimed. [Post edited 23 Sep 2023 9:39]
|
Well you got that hour of radio listened to very quickly - impressive... | |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 09:43 - Sep 23 with 2537 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 09:40 - Sep 23 by WeWereZombies |
Well you got that hour of radio listened to very quickly - impressive... |
Why do I need to listen to an hour of radio to repeat what IFS said about the British economy's vulnerability to the crisis and Blair's assessment of Brown's failure to address the deficit? | |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 13:42 - Sep 23 with 2485 views | eireblue |
Good job London has a Mayor that pushes through stuff to help air quality. |  | | |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 14:36 - Sep 28 with 2263 views | WeWereZombies |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 16:01 - Sep 22 by jayessess |
As Chancellor of the Exchequer Churchill reintroduces a version of the Gold Standard in 1925. It's technically slightly different from the pre-FWW version.
Depends what you mean from "worst of the '30s depression" really. The 1925 Gold Standard over-values the pound, which depresses trade (and contributes to the mid-1920s depression and the General Strike). It's deflationary though, so maybe holds down inflation post-1929 (wouldn't have helped with unemployment mind and blind adherence to fiscal orthodoxy is what breaks the 1929-31 Labour Government). |
You may have already clocked it but this morning's 'In OurTime' is about Keynes and his book 'The Economic Consequences Of The Peace', I found it fascinating, not least in the breadth of the aspects discussed:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001qtpf
Also worth catching for the contribution of Margaret MacMillan, a historian I am always impressed with. | |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 14:44 - Sep 28 with 2247 views | HankScorpio |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 09:40 - Sep 23 by WeWereZombies |
Well you got that hour of radio listened to very quickly - impressive... |
 |  |
| I expect nothing from you, except to die and be a very cheap funeral. |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 15:01 - Sep 28 with 2205 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 20:01 - Sep 21 by WeWereZombies |
This EU2 stuff, are people working pro Bono ? |
Edgey stuff...
I'm just Mullen over how best to respond. I think "Should Eno better?"
Should I come down on you like a Clayton of bricks?
Just sipping my McGuinness, preparing for the "Yeah, but Corbijn" posts. |  | | |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 15:03 - Sep 28 with 2203 views | jayessess |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 14:36 - Sep 28 by WeWereZombies |
You may have already clocked it but this morning's 'In OurTime' is about Keynes and his book 'The Economic Consequences Of The Peace', I found it fascinating, not least in the breadth of the aspects discussed:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001qtpf
Also worth catching for the contribution of Margaret MacMillan, a historian I am always impressed with. |
I hadn't, but will definitely give it a listen, thanks. MacMillan always excellent value.
(Coindentally, I'm sat in my office about fifty metres from Keynes' front door...) | |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 15:23 - Sep 28 with 2183 views | blueasfook |
Really? That poll still has it quite narrow - 55% in favour of rejoining.
Pretty sure the polls in 2016 had it similar too, but on the day Leave won.
Also, how many of those would accept rejoining on worse terms than we had before? No veto, no rebate and loss of our currency. That would take some convincing I think! The poll is meaningless until people are presented with the terms on which we would be rejoining. |  |
| |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 15:42 - Sep 28 with 2159 views | DanTheMan |
| This EU associate membership thing that Starmer has likely been discussing on 15:23 - Sep 28 by blueasfook |
Really? That poll still has it quite narrow - 55% in favour of rejoining.
Pretty sure the polls in 2016 had it similar too, but on the day Leave won.
Also, how many of those would accept rejoining on worse terms than we had before? No veto, no rebate and loss of our currency. That would take some convincing I think! The poll is meaningless until people are presented with the terms on which we would be rejoining. |
People were more than happy to vote to leave without knowing what that would look like. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
