| Why are America so pro Israel 06:28 - Oct 18 with 14428 views | gtsb1966 |
and the UK too for that matter. Is there a simple answer or is it way too complicated for a thicko like me. [Post edited 18 Oct 2023 6:29]
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:03 - Oct 18 with 2500 views | factual_blue |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 09:05 - Oct 18 by Guthrum |
The USA has a massive Jewish community, which is also a powerful political lobby.
Among conservative Christians there is a strong urge to protect and nurture Israel. Some of this relates to theology of the "End Times", when events in the region presage the return of Jesus.
During the Cold War, the surrounding Arab nations were backed by the Soviets and many of the Middle Eastern terror organisations were notionally socialist*. Israel was seen as Westernised and a bulwark against that. With the rise of militant Islamism, from the 1990s, that has continued, increased by attacks upon the USA itself.
* Ironically, the founding leaders of Israel planned for it to be a socialist state. |
And, if I recall correctly what President Obama said, the President has Netenyahu in his ear seven days a week. |  |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:09 - Oct 18 with 2462 views | Buhrer |
Finding out why, would be a Revelation, or at least lots of them seem to hope so. |  | | |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:32 - Oct 18 with 2387 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:02 - Oct 18 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
He just can't help himself. |
No, I can't. Not against the people who have consistently weaponised antisemitism and made up stuff to discredit genuine anti-racists and apologise for ongoing oppression in Israel-Palestine.
I'm on the receiving end of the whispers, nudge-nudges and even straight accusations of being antisemitic for even talking about Israel-Palestine as if it's an unhealthy and dodgy anti-Jew obsession rather than it being one of the biggest unresolved injustices in the world and a criminal situation that millions of innocent people (Israelis and Palestinians) have to live with. Because ... politics. |  |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:44 - Oct 18 with 2333 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:32 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
No, I can't. Not against the people who have consistently weaponised antisemitism and made up stuff to discredit genuine anti-racists and apologise for ongoing oppression in Israel-Palestine.
I'm on the receiving end of the whispers, nudge-nudges and even straight accusations of being antisemitic for even talking about Israel-Palestine as if it's an unhealthy and dodgy anti-Jew obsession rather than it being one of the biggest unresolved injustices in the world and a criminal situation that millions of innocent people (Israelis and Palestinians) have to live with. Because ... politics. |
Nah. Nothing to do with you being pro Palestinian. Any decent person would want to see fair and equal treatment from Palestinians in a two state solution.
It’s more to do with you calling British Jews and others such as The Jewish Chronicle, The Jewish Labour Movement, LAAS, The BOard of Deputies of British Jews, Margaret Hodge, and Keir Starmer, who speak out against antisemitism in this country as “apartheid apologisers and antisemitism weaponiser”
Or agreeing with Expelled Labour member and anti semite Pete Willsman when he said that 68 British rabbis were "organised" by the Israeli embassy to complain about "severe" anti-Semitism within Labour.
Nobody has once tried to silence you talking about Israel/Palestine. There must be at least 5 posts a day in the subject since the pogrom of ten days ago and the collective punishment by Israel in its aftermath. Not one person has been silenced and nobody has attempted to silence anyone. |  |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:48 - Oct 18 with 2328 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:32 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
No, I can't. Not against the people who have consistently weaponised antisemitism and made up stuff to discredit genuine anti-racists and apologise for ongoing oppression in Israel-Palestine.
I'm on the receiving end of the whispers, nudge-nudges and even straight accusations of being antisemitic for even talking about Israel-Palestine as if it's an unhealthy and dodgy anti-Jew obsession rather than it being one of the biggest unresolved injustices in the world and a criminal situation that millions of innocent people (Israelis and Palestinians) have to live with. Because ... politics. |
Nope it's your board history on here, nothing to do with this conflict. Even when a Jewish poster told you that you had offended him and you still wouldn't stop. There are countless examples of it, that GB has just got to before me above.
But you are going on ignore now, have no idea why I didn't do it before. [Post edited 18 Oct 2023 15:49]
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:50 - Oct 18 with 2316 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 14:24 - Oct 18 by DJR |
I had just begun to type the same point as in your last sentence. And not just millions of people, but some very wealthy nations. |
To that point, indeed Saudi and Qatar are the biggest arms exports markets for the US:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/248552/us-arms-exports-by-country/
In fact Israel is largely insignificant at 10th on the list behind the military juggernauts of Norway and UAE. Still I’m sure he’ll be along to show us the money trail soon (not aimed at Swansea)…
Edit- for clarity I’m not approving of US arms to Israel, just making the point that suggesting money is the primary reason for US support of Israel just seems like a lazy assumption to me. [Post edited 18 Oct 2023 15:52]
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:56 - Oct 18 with 2261 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:44 - Oct 18 by GlasgowBlue |
Nah. Nothing to do with you being pro Palestinian. Any decent person would want to see fair and equal treatment from Palestinians in a two state solution.
It’s more to do with you calling British Jews and others such as The Jewish Chronicle, The Jewish Labour Movement, LAAS, The BOard of Deputies of British Jews, Margaret Hodge, and Keir Starmer, who speak out against antisemitism in this country as “apartheid apologisers and antisemitism weaponiser”
Or agreeing with Expelled Labour member and anti semite Pete Willsman when he said that 68 British rabbis were "organised" by the Israeli embassy to complain about "severe" anti-Semitism within Labour.
Nobody has once tried to silence you talking about Israel/Palestine. There must be at least 5 posts a day in the subject since the pogrom of ten days ago and the collective punishment by Israel in its aftermath. Not one person has been silenced and nobody has attempted to silence anyone. |
I’m talking about before.
If there is a grim silver lining about the whole horrific mess it’s that critical and Palestinian voices are being heard for the first time and many outside are starting to learn about the underlying situation.
And I stand by everything I say about the bad faith in these accusations from people who prefer that this is all kept within the sanitised, normalised and acceptably pro-Israel/pro-UK status quo narrative. Or even more unforgivably use it as a factional and party political weapon.
History will only be based on the facts. And it’ll be a pretty brutal judgment on those who lied about it or didn’t even bother to check. | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:04 - Oct 18 with 2232 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:48 - Oct 18 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Nope it's your board history on here, nothing to do with this conflict. Even when a Jewish poster told you that you had offended him and you still wouldn't stop. There are countless examples of it, that GB has just got to before me above.
But you are going on ignore now, have no idea why I didn't do it before. [Post edited 18 Oct 2023 15:49]
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With all due respect … that’s a great result.
As I seem to remember, the poster who you’re invoking also swung fairly hard right and anti-Palestinian. | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:10 - Oct 18 with 2207 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:48 - Oct 18 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Nope it's your board history on here, nothing to do with this conflict. Even when a Jewish poster told you that you had offended him and you still wouldn't stop. There are countless examples of it, that GB has just got to before me above.
But you are going on ignore now, have no idea why I didn't do it before. [Post edited 18 Oct 2023 15:49]
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Solomon. Had a few PM’s from him saying how uncomfortable he was feeling on here. Hope is is ok. | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:10 - Oct 18 with 2218 views | WeWereZombies |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 15:56 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
I’m talking about before.
If there is a grim silver lining about the whole horrific mess it’s that critical and Palestinian voices are being heard for the first time and many outside are starting to learn about the underlying situation.
And I stand by everything I say about the bad faith in these accusations from people who prefer that this is all kept within the sanitised, normalised and acceptably pro-Israel/pro-UK status quo narrative. Or even more unforgivably use it as a factional and party political weapon.
History will only be based on the facts. And it’ll be a pretty brutal judgment on those who lied about it or didn’t even bother to check. |
As regards your last paragraph, some say history is written by the winners. Which I guess is why going to war seems to happen far too easily and ramps up so quickly. |  |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:21 - Oct 18 with 2167 views | lowhouseblue |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:10 - Oct 18 by WeWereZombies |
As regards your last paragraph, some say history is written by the winners. Which I guess is why going to war seems to happen far too easily and ramps up so quickly. |
with regards to his last para, anyone claiming to know how history will be written in the future is an utter buffoon. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:22 - Oct 18 with 2145 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:04 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
With all due respect … that’s a great result.
As I seem to remember, the poster who you’re invoking also swung fairly hard right and anti-Palestinian. |
A genuine question. Did you ever take a moment of reflection when Solomon told you how uncomfortable he felt about some of your posts and when he eventually left the board? | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:23 - Oct 18 with 2132 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:10 - Oct 18 by WeWereZombies |
As regards your last paragraph, some say history is written by the winners. Which I guess is why going to war seems to happen far too easily and ramps up so quickly. |
Yes, certainly when the official record was the history and the losers and their version were very effectively marginalised by being banned, banished, executed or killed in battle. And there are remnants of that official history today particularly in the UK with how our media acts like court stenographers rather than journalists doing actual journalism.
But I think it’s gotten a bit more factual in the Information Age. And critically, with multiple sources and perspectives, there’s not the same ability to write history in defiance of the facts.
Narratives are another matter because like lies they’re half-way around the world before the truth has its pants on. But they won’t stand the test of time and any serious scrutiny to become history but a footnote and warning about bad faith and dishonest actors. | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:25 - Oct 18 with 2136 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:04 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
With all due respect … that’s a great result.
As I seem to remember, the poster who you’re invoking also swung fairly hard right and anti-Palestinian. |
I will just leave it there mate. You have history I am not comfortable with and GB articulated it very well. | | | |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:29 - Oct 18 with 2091 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:22 - Oct 18 by GlasgowBlue |
A genuine question. Did you ever take a moment of reflection when Solomon told you how uncomfortable he felt about some of your posts and when he eventually left the board? |
We had time to exchange views and I don’t think he was ever going to take on my more critical views.
I regretted the fact that he felt he had to leave. But I think he was in the wrong place if he thinks everybody could or should toe his line re: politics and their views on certain real situations.
Hope he’s well. | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:30 - Oct 18 with 2081 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:25 - Oct 18 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I will just leave it there mate. You have history I am not comfortable with and GB articulated it very well. |
I can handle what people like you and GB think of me.
Enjoy! | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:39 - Oct 18 with 2059 views | noggin |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:30 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
I can handle what people like you and GB think of me.
Enjoy! |
Must hurt though, that the board redneck has put you on ignore because you call out apartheid. |  |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:43 - Oct 18 with 2023 views | WeWereZombies |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:21 - Oct 18 by lowhouseblue |
with regards to his last para, anyone claiming to know how history will be written in the future is an utter buffoon. |
Let's just say they are aspirant, shall we ? Are there is something to be said for being ever hopeful, because without hope then all endeavours seem worthless.
For me there is history and there is historiography, you need to understand how and why history is written to get at what is vital in those records. | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:47 - Oct 18 with 2004 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:39 - Oct 18 by noggin |
Must hurt though, that the board redneck has put you on ignore because you call out apartheid. |
Another unpleasant individual and keyboard warrior huh. Throwing terms like Redneck around because you don't agree with someone politically.
No I ignored him because he has agreed with expelled anti Semites and used questionable language on the subject. | | | |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:49 - Oct 18 with 1988 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:29 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
We had time to exchange views and I don’t think he was ever going to take on my more critical views.
I regretted the fact that he felt he had to leave. But I think he was in the wrong place if he thinks everybody could or should toe his line re: politics and their views on certain real situations.
Hope he’s well. |
I don’t recall Solomon ever giving a view on the Israel/Palestine conflict. And why should he? I also don’t recall him commenting on any political situation.
He felt very unforgivable with some of the tropes you repeated and the accusations of bad faith against British Jews and their representative organisations who were raising concerns of antisemitism.
That you felt you knew better on the subject than a Jewish person was arrogant in the extreme. | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:55 - Oct 18 with 1973 views | MK1 |
If they do, we do. If they don't, we don't. Doesn't work the other way for some reason or another. |  |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 17:11 - Oct 18 with 1913 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 16:49 - Oct 18 by GlasgowBlue |
I don’t recall Solomon ever giving a view on the Israel/Palestine conflict. And why should he? I also don’t recall him commenting on any political situation.
He felt very unforgivable with some of the tropes you repeated and the accusations of bad faith against British Jews and their representative organisations who were raising concerns of antisemitism.
That you felt you knew better on the subject than a Jewish person was arrogant in the extreme. |
As Solomon rejected a discussion of the actual facts (like you and others who melt away when asked to provide the detail) then I really am not sure whether he understood the situation or not.
No question that he understands the reality, understandable fear and emotion of facing antisemitism much better. But I think that was one of the most inexcusable parts of the whole weaponisation — ramping up fear and a visceral Holocaust-tinged response with OTT and unsubstantiated accusations.
Anyone who pushes the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and Labour is/was an EXISTENTIAL threat to British Jews needs to take a long hard look at themselves, their politics and their values as human beings. | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 17:45 - Oct 18 with 1845 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 17:11 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
As Solomon rejected a discussion of the actual facts (like you and others who melt away when asked to provide the detail) then I really am not sure whether he understood the situation or not.
No question that he understands the reality, understandable fear and emotion of facing antisemitism much better. But I think that was one of the most inexcusable parts of the whole weaponisation — ramping up fear and a visceral Holocaust-tinged response with OTT and unsubstantiated accusations.
Anyone who pushes the idea that Jeremy Corbyn and Labour is/was an EXISTENTIAL threat to British Jews needs to take a long hard look at themselves, their politics and their values as human beings. |
In light of the evil butchery that took place in Israel last Saturday, I would suggest that the statement Corbyn made regarding Hamas in 2009 justifies every fear that British Jews had about him becoming Prime Minister.
But do we really need another Corbyn thread? [Post edited 18 Oct 2023 17:46]
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 17:56 - Oct 18 with 1822 views | positivity |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 17:45 - Oct 18 by GlasgowBlue |
In light of the evil butchery that took place in Israel last Saturday, I would suggest that the statement Corbyn made regarding Hamas in 2009 justifies every fear that British Jews had about him becoming Prime Minister.
But do we really need another Corbyn thread? [Post edited 18 Oct 2023 17:46]
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no, corbyn's firmly in the past.
has koonters been appeasing chris williamson again? comments like his will make even the most left-wing jews relieved he got nowhere near power | |
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| Why are America so pro Israel on 17:57 - Oct 18 with 1814 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why are America so pro Israel on 17:45 - Oct 18 by GlasgowBlue |
In light of the evil butchery that took place in Israel last Saturday, I would suggest that the statement Corbyn made regarding Hamas in 2009 justifies every fear that British Jews had about him becoming Prime Minister.
But do we really need another Corbyn thread? [Post edited 18 Oct 2023 17:46]
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Drop the bad faith posturing. It was and still is a disgusting distortion that plays on people’s fears and the trauma of the Holocaust.
Re: speaking with Hamas, the reality is that more voices like his who don’t condone violence, and want to de-escalate and bring the sides together towards a negotiated political settlement would make everyone safer. Or are Mike Gapes and Blair also existential threats?
Do you ever pause to consider that your brand of “clever politics” is part of the continuing problem rather than a solution? | |
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