| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world 19:04 - Oct 29 with 110511 views | GlasgowBlue |
As per Dan's idea, this is the one thread for posting anti semitism awareness in the aftermath of the 7/11 pogrom.
It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world
[Post edited 1 Nov 2023 13:26]
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:41 - Feb 16 with 3499 views | GlasgowBlue |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:40 - Feb 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
And yet the article you praised alludes heavily towards it. I think perhaps you need to 'get real.' |
No it doesn't. I've just linked the definition of Dual Loyalty as an antisemitic trope. Please highlight where in the article this trope has been used.
Edit. I'm still waiting. You've been pretty quick to reply to my other posts. Can you please highlight where the article invokes the dual loyalty trope. I've linked the full definition of the trope with several examples. [Post edited 16 Feb 2024 21:52]
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:54 - Feb 16 with 3459 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:41 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
No it doesn't. I've just linked the definition of Dual Loyalty as an antisemitic trope. Please highlight where in the article this trope has been used.
Edit. I'm still waiting. You've been pretty quick to reply to my other posts. Can you please highlight where the article invokes the dual loyalty trope. I've linked the full definition of the trope with several examples. [Post edited 16 Feb 2024 21:52]
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I was thinking of this...
'But there is another, more awkward reason why it’s hard, if not impossible, wholly to disentangle antisemitism from Israel. It is that most – not all – Jews feel bound up with the country. They may be enraged by it, they may despair at the direction it has taken these past few months – or even these past 57 years, since the occupation that began as a result of the 1967 war – but they are deeply connected to it.
Having read your link I think perhaps we are getting into the realms of semantics as it specifies "more loyal" but I think the point he makes is a valid one that the Israeli State should think more about the wider dispora when it acts as it does. Clearly a majority of British Jews feel an affinity/loyalty to their only religiously identified nation state, whether or not it is more or not can not even be measured even if we wanted to. |  |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:59 - Feb 16 with 3455 views | GlasgowBlue |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:54 - Feb 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I was thinking of this...
'But there is another, more awkward reason why it’s hard, if not impossible, wholly to disentangle antisemitism from Israel. It is that most – not all – Jews feel bound up with the country. They may be enraged by it, they may despair at the direction it has taken these past few months – or even these past 57 years, since the occupation that began as a result of the 1967 war – but they are deeply connected to it.
Having read your link I think perhaps we are getting into the realms of semantics as it specifies "more loyal" but I think the point he makes is a valid one that the Israeli State should think more about the wider dispora when it acts as it does. Clearly a majority of British Jews feel an affinity/loyalty to their only religiously identified nation state, whether or not it is more or not can not even be measured even if we wanted to. |
90% of British Jews are zionists. I've posted that many times over the years. It's a fact. But the 'Duel loyalty" trope is about antisemites who accuse British Jews of putting the interests of Israel above their own country. Of being responsible collectively fop the actions of the Israeli state. There are other examples that I linked in the defintion.
The article doesn't suggest any of that. So I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make.
You originally said that you "have been accused of the 'dual loyalty' antisemitic falsehood". Can you give me an example? | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:11 - Feb 16 with 3426 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:59 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
90% of British Jews are zionists. I've posted that many times over the years. It's a fact. But the 'Duel loyalty" trope is about antisemites who accuse British Jews of putting the interests of Israel above their own country. Of being responsible collectively fop the actions of the Israeli state. There are other examples that I linked in the defintion.
The article doesn't suggest any of that. So I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make.
You originally said that you "have been accused of the 'dual loyalty' antisemitic falsehood". Can you give me an example? |
Not without employing an archivist but my best guess would be several weeks or months back when discussing that most British Jews have an affinity/connection with Israel and that thus it isn't unfair to expect them to be held accountable to an extent for the actions of the state they hold dear. I have had conversations with many who can not even use the word Palestine in family discussions for fear of the reaction!
Again this boils down to the word "more" and my fear with these definitions, as I have argued since day one, is the inherent space for interpretation and grey zones. | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:22 - Feb 16 with 3402 views | GlasgowBlue |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:11 - Feb 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Not without employing an archivist but my best guess would be several weeks or months back when discussing that most British Jews have an affinity/connection with Israel and that thus it isn't unfair to expect them to be held accountable to an extent for the actions of the state they hold dear. I have had conversations with many who can not even use the word Palestine in family discussions for fear of the reaction!
Again this boils down to the word "more" and my fear with these definitions, as I have argued since day one, is the inherent space for interpretation and grey zones. |
You were doing great with "most British Jews have an affinity/connection with Israel". Absolute nothing wrong with that. But then you had to ruing it all by invoking the dual loyalty trope by saying "it isn't unfair to expect them to be held accountable to an extent for the actions of the state they hold dear".
That you don't recognise why the second part of your sentence is extremely problematic is quite concerning.
Many Muslims have an affinity with Palestine. Should the be held accountable for the actions of Hamas?
My honest opinion is that you read Jonathan Freedland's article, didn't feel any empathy for the victims of antisemitism but instead picked up on the part where he writes about Jews having an affinity or connection to Israel and thought you had found a gotcha moment. I linked the definition of the "Dual Loyalty" trope with all of its examples, amnd instead of taking that inboard you decided to double down and actually invoke the trope yourself.
Basically you tried to defend yourself against an alleged (but not one you could actually back up) accusation of antisemitism by repeating an antisemitic trope. | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:31 - Feb 16 with 3387 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:22 - Feb 16 by GlasgowBlue |
You were doing great with "most British Jews have an affinity/connection with Israel". Absolute nothing wrong with that. But then you had to ruing it all by invoking the dual loyalty trope by saying "it isn't unfair to expect them to be held accountable to an extent for the actions of the state they hold dear".
That you don't recognise why the second part of your sentence is extremely problematic is quite concerning.
Many Muslims have an affinity with Palestine. Should the be held accountable for the actions of Hamas?
My honest opinion is that you read Jonathan Freedland's article, didn't feel any empathy for the victims of antisemitism but instead picked up on the part where he writes about Jews having an affinity or connection to Israel and thought you had found a gotcha moment. I linked the definition of the "Dual Loyalty" trope with all of its examples, amnd instead of taking that inboard you decided to double down and actually invoke the trope yourself.
Basically you tried to defend yourself against an alleged (but not one you could actually back up) accusation of antisemitism by repeating an antisemitic trope. |
That is why I used the words "...to an extent..." The difference with Muslims is that there is more than one nation state with which they identify not to mention the factions which divide them.
Your point about empathy is misplaced...the theatre example for instance is appalling. | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:32 - Feb 16 with 3387 views | Swansea_Blue |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 08:31 - Feb 15 by DJR |
4,103 reported antisemitic incidents in 2023 (with two-thirds since 7 October) is something everyone in the UK should be ashamed about, and is why it is incumbent upon everyone in public life to be very careful about the language they use. Indeed, that principle should extend to everyone.
https://cst.org.uk/public/data/file/9/f/Antisemitic_Incidents_Report_2023.pdf
There were 1,282 reported incident of online antisemitism but this has to be be seen in the following context.
"This total for online incidents is only indicative, as the actual amount of antisemitic content that is generated and disseminated on online platforms is much larger. In some cases, social media has been used as a tool for coordinated campaigns of antisemitic harassment, threats and abuse directed at Jewish public figures and other individuals. Where this is the case, CST will record a coordinated campaign as a single incident, even if it involves multiple tweets, posts, messages or comments. CST does not trawl the internet looking for online incidents to log and will only record online incidents that are reported to CST by a victim, witness or other third party, and where either the offender or the victim is based in the UK." [Post edited 15 Feb 2024 8:53]
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This. It’s easy (and often correct) to dismiss Twitter posts, as Twitter is full of crap, agendas and lies. But when you get presented with hard data there’s no excuse for turning a blind eye. It a stain on our society. One of many unfortunately, as some of the following figures show:
- There were 3,400 police recorded hate crime offences committed against Muslims in 2023 https://www.statista.com/statistics/623880/islamophobic-hate-crimes-england-and- with a 600% increase in “incidents” after the Hamas attacks on 7th October (I don’t think police reported crimes and ‘incidents’ are comparable) https://www.itv.com/news/2023-11-09/i-was-terrified-islamophobic-incidents-up-by
- a massive increase in ‘sexual orientation’ hate crimes since 2011 (LBGT, etc.) to the point we have over 24,00 in a year up from 40,000 a decade ago https://www.statista.com/statistics/623990/sexual-orientation-hate-crimes-in-eng
- a massive increase in overall hate crimes over the last 10 years (racial, sexual orientation, religion, etc.) https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2021-to-20
We seem to be suffering from an epidemic of arsey, intolerant w@nkers. |  |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 11:28 - Feb 19 with 3173 views | GlasgowBlue |
Utter scum
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 17:58 - Feb 19 with 3070 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 11:28 - Feb 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Utter scum
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These types of protesters have gone after kids cancer centers in New York so defacing a statue of Amy isn’t that surprising I guess. |  | | |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 18:12 - Feb 19 with 3054 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 17:58 - Feb 19 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
These types of protesters have gone after kids cancer centers in New York so defacing a statue of Amy isn’t that surprising I guess. |
When you say "these types of protesters" do you means the ones with stickers? | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 19:09 - Feb 19 with 3012 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 18:12 - Feb 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
When you say "these types of protesters" do you means the ones with stickers? |
Yes if they’re plastering them over a statue of a dead young British Jewish icon and her necklace. | | | |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 18:03 - Feb 20 with 2859 views | GlasgowBlue |
Every fcuking day.
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 14:51 - Mar 4 with 2634 views | giant_stow |
...Just a fairly prominent journalist labelling some Jewish peoples' concerns as Loopy. And look at the replies. fck me - the headline in question is bang on by those. |  |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 17:47 - Mar 4 with 2532 views | GlasgowBlue |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 14:51 - Mar 4 by giant_stow |
...Just a fairly prominent journalist labelling some Jewish peoples' concerns as Loopy. And look at the replies. fck me - the headline in question is bang on by those. |
It’s perfectly normal to make hissing noises at a Jewish councillor when he begins to speak at a local council budget meeting.
No antisemitism here. Its just a smear. | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 17:57 - Mar 5 with 2412 views | GlasgowBlue |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:05 - Mar 9 with 2085 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Central London is not a no go zone for Jews....Time to end this fear narrative.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/09/im-jewish-and-feel-totally-safe-ma
Zack Polanski, deputy leader of the Green party and a London Assembly member, rejected this characterisation of the demonstrations. As a Jew, he said, he has always been welcomed both as a speaker and a marcher. “There isn’t one single Jewish community. There are Jewish communities,” he said. “Collectively, we have to rise above the warmongers, both Hamas and Benjamin Netanyahu, and ultimately find ways to create peace. And that means recognising that British Jews are not responsible for the Israeli government, just as British Muslims are not responsible for Hamas. These things aren’t complicated, but too often they get conflated."
Some still felt elements of that complication. A young man who would only gave his name as Aaron was on his first march; his family, he said, would be outraged if they found out he was here, but he felt he had no choice. “You grow up being told one idea of how the world is, and then you watch the news,” he said. Others had fewer doubts. Haim Bresheth, 74, held a sign indicating that he is the son of Holocaust survivors, and therefore against this war. He served as an officer in the Israel Defence Forces as a young man, he says, but he could not feel more welcome here. | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:50 - Mar 9 with 2026 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:05 - Mar 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Central London is not a no go zone for Jews....Time to end this fear narrative.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/09/im-jewish-and-feel-totally-safe-ma
Zack Polanski, deputy leader of the Green party and a London Assembly member, rejected this characterisation of the demonstrations. As a Jew, he said, he has always been welcomed both as a speaker and a marcher. “There isn’t one single Jewish community. There are Jewish communities,” he said. “Collectively, we have to rise above the warmongers, both Hamas and Benjamin Netanyahu, and ultimately find ways to create peace. And that means recognising that British Jews are not responsible for the Israeli government, just as British Muslims are not responsible for Hamas. These things aren’t complicated, but too often they get conflated."
Some still felt elements of that complication. A young man who would only gave his name as Aaron was on his first march; his family, he said, would be outraged if they found out he was here, but he felt he had no choice. “You grow up being told one idea of how the world is, and then you watch the news,” he said. Others had fewer doubts. Haim Bresheth, 74, held a sign indicating that he is the son of Holocaust survivors, and therefore against this war. He served as an officer in the Israel Defence Forces as a young man, he says, but he could not feel more welcome here. |
I stopped at deputy leader of the Green Party.
When will you leave this thread alone with geo politics when it’s specific purpose has been explained to you multiple times. | | | |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:59 - Mar 9 with 1974 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:50 - Mar 9 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I stopped at deputy leader of the Green Party.
When will you leave this thread alone with geo politics when it’s specific purpose has been explained to you multiple times. |
I understand that culture wars are your friend. | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:00 - Mar 9 with 1977 views | J2BLUE |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:05 - Mar 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Central London is not a no go zone for Jews....Time to end this fear narrative.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/09/im-jewish-and-feel-totally-safe-ma
Zack Polanski, deputy leader of the Green party and a London Assembly member, rejected this characterisation of the demonstrations. As a Jew, he said, he has always been welcomed both as a speaker and a marcher. “There isn’t one single Jewish community. There are Jewish communities,” he said. “Collectively, we have to rise above the warmongers, both Hamas and Benjamin Netanyahu, and ultimately find ways to create peace. And that means recognising that British Jews are not responsible for the Israeli government, just as British Muslims are not responsible for Hamas. These things aren’t complicated, but too often they get conflated."
Some still felt elements of that complication. A young man who would only gave his name as Aaron was on his first march; his family, he said, would be outraged if they found out he was here, but he felt he had no choice. “You grow up being told one idea of how the world is, and then you watch the news,” he said. Others had fewer doubts. Haim Bresheth, 74, held a sign indicating that he is the son of Holocaust survivors, and therefore against this war. He served as an officer in the Israel Defence Forces as a young man, he says, but he could not feel more welcome here. |
Yea, great post. Let's ignore the much higher number of Jewish people who have said they feel unsafe to highlight a small number who have no reason to be attacked when they are literally protesting with the other people. |  |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:08 - Mar 9 with 1949 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 21:59 - Mar 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I understand that culture wars are your friend. |
You’ve already had highly offensive posts removed from these pages. Maybe sit this one out, preferably far away from this particular thread with your agenda, which is basically tinkering on the line of downplaying appalling behavior because of the situation in the Middle East. | | | |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:08 - Mar 9 with 1948 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:00 - Mar 9 by J2BLUE |
Yea, great post. Let's ignore the much higher number of Jewish people who have said they feel unsafe to highlight a small number who have no reason to be attacked when they are literally protesting with the other people. |
Feeling unsafe is not the same as being unsafe, I'm amazed that they made it to the protests untouched tbf!
I have had many conversations with Jews in recent months in person and on line. The extent of othering that they are subjected to in their family upbringing is incredible....it is often taboo to even utter the word Palestine or Palestinians for example. In this context it is not surprising that perceived fear wins out. | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:09 - Mar 9 with 1945 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:00 - Mar 9 by J2BLUE |
Yea, great post. Let's ignore the much higher number of Jewish people who have said they feel unsafe to highlight a small number who have no reason to be attacked when they are literally protesting with the other people. |
Are you surprised? Looks at the crap he puts on here. | | | |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:10 - Mar 9 with 2656 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:08 - Mar 9 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
You’ve already had highly offensive posts removed from these pages. Maybe sit this one out, preferably far away from this particular thread with your agenda, which is basically tinkering on the line of downplaying appalling behavior because of the situation in the Middle East. |
Lol x | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:12 - Mar 9 with 2646 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:09 - Mar 9 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Are you surprised? Looks at the crap he puts on here. |
No, your Mum smells..... | |
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| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:14 - Mar 9 with 2645 views | J2BLUE |
| It's getting fcuking scary for Jews around the world on 22:08 - Mar 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Feeling unsafe is not the same as being unsafe, I'm amazed that they made it to the protests untouched tbf!
I have had many conversations with Jews in recent months in person and on line. The extent of othering that they are subjected to in their family upbringing is incredible....it is often taboo to even utter the word Palestine or Palestinians for example. In this context it is not surprising that perceived fear wins out. |
Finding a way to blame Jewish people themselves. Textbook.
I assume they also vandalised their own houses and businesses? And threatened and insulted themselves? Did the Wycombe captain set up multiple accounts to demand he was dropped?
There are loads of real life incidents but you already know that because you dismissed them as not being enough to really matter. Now you've gone one further. | |
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