| Interview process - your views 16:27 - Nov 13 with 2945 views | heavyweight |
My daughter has been interviewed for a reasonably senior IT job (search engine optimisation). She's had 3 interviews with the company lasting in total about 3 1/2 hours. At the end of the last interview the hiring manager said she is then required to do a fairly detailed task - reviewing the companies website. They recommended that she shouldn't take more than 4 hours doing it - and then produce a report at the end of the weekend. My daughter said the task, included lots of detailed analysis that to do any justice would take a lot longer than the 4 hours specified. The upshot was she said she wouldn't do the task as effectively the company were asking for a days consultancy for free and this task was never previously mentioned in the interview process.
Without being too 'mumsnety' were the company being unreasonable? Was daughter justified in pushing back ? Clearly she's not overly fussed about this job but she would have been fairly aggrieved if she did that work and then failed to get the job.
I kind of admire her having the confidence to stand her ground but also part of me just wanted to tell her to just do the work. [Post edited 13 Nov 2023 20:24]
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| Interview process - your views on 16:30 - Nov 13 with 2892 views | Zx1988 |
What's her take on the job and the company?
There are all too many stories these days of companies using the interview process as a means to get candidates to do work for free, before telling them that none of them were up to the standard required for the role. Having her do a full rundown of the company's website sounds a bit like one of those scenarios.
What are your and her gut feelings about it all?
(Sorry, clearly didn't fully read the original post - didn't realise she'd already told them to shove it!) [Post edited 13 Nov 2023 16:31]
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| Interview process - your views on 16:31 - Nov 13 with 2888 views | Herbivore |
Sounds like they're taking the piss to be honest. Good on your daughter for telling them to shove it. |  |
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| Interview process - your views on 16:31 - Nov 13 with 2889 views | hype313 |
Sounds like they are trying to get a freebie out of your daughter.
SEO Jobs are quite common, she could get herself a number of interviews for this. |  |
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| Interview process - your views on 16:31 - Nov 13 with 2878 views | EddyJ |
Sounds unreasonable to me.
I would expect the hiring company to compensate her for time spent on interview tasks beyond the standard 1-3 hours of interviews. | | | |
| Interview process - your views on 16:36 - Nov 13 with 2825 views | Meadowlark |
Assume you mean "company's website..." I was confused. |  | | |
| Interview process - your views on 16:38 - Nov 13 with 2813 views | thebooks |
Your daughter’s 100% in the right. No respectable agency would ask for this amount of free consultancy — at best it indicates a disrespectful culture.
Also showing she value’s her time and therefore worth to a company/
Also, she should get out of SEO 😁 |  | | |
| Interview process - your views on 16:39 - Nov 13 with 2802 views | DanTheMan |
I work in a related industry and I'd also not be happy about this.
The long interview process I can't comment on too much, but 3 1/2 hours wouldn't be that long for a senior software engineer. Probably the norm if you're through to the final stages, but that would also include a technical test of some description.
Now, I have done these "take home" tests before and I've also been in charge of giving them out and writing them before. I think one key difference here is that the tests are usually made so that they are realistic to the work you'd be doing but without being useful to the company in any way. Here, they are doing something that would obviously be of benefit to them. If they made a fake website with some obvious flaws they'd expect her to pick up on, I might think a little differently.
I'd also do them myself to make sure that anybody taking them could complete them in the time allowed. Most of the time I actually recommend against doing them because they also discriminate against people who say have kids and don't have time to do a 4-hour test in an evening or weekend.
It might well be that they aren't doing it to take advantage but just didn't think through how it looks. It'd be worth feeding back to them. |  |
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| Interview process - your views on 16:41 - Nov 13 with 2778 views | Dubtractor |
| Interview process - your views on 16:30 - Nov 13 by Zx1988 |
What's her take on the job and the company?
There are all too many stories these days of companies using the interview process as a means to get candidates to do work for free, before telling them that none of them were up to the standard required for the role. Having her do a full rundown of the company's website sounds a bit like one of those scenarios.
What are your and her gut feelings about it all?
(Sorry, clearly didn't fully read the original post - didn't realise she'd already told them to shove it!) [Post edited 13 Nov 2023 16:31]
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They are massively taking the piss.
3 interviews AND some free consultancy? If nothing else, they sound like a dreadful company to work for. |  |
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| Interview process - your views on 16:43 - Nov 13 with 2754 views | MJallday |
| Interview process - your views on 16:31 - Nov 13 by hype313 |
Sounds like they are trying to get a freebie out of your daughter.
SEO Jobs are quite common, she could get herself a number of interviews for this. |
This. SEO jobs are relatively common |  |
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| Interview process - your views on 16:48 - Nov 13 with 2718 views | heavyweight |
| Interview process - your views on 16:39 - Nov 13 by DanTheMan |
I work in a related industry and I'd also not be happy about this.
The long interview process I can't comment on too much, but 3 1/2 hours wouldn't be that long for a senior software engineer. Probably the norm if you're through to the final stages, but that would also include a technical test of some description.
Now, I have done these "take home" tests before and I've also been in charge of giving them out and writing them before. I think one key difference here is that the tests are usually made so that they are realistic to the work you'd be doing but without being useful to the company in any way. Here, they are doing something that would obviously be of benefit to them. If they made a fake website with some obvious flaws they'd expect her to pick up on, I might think a little differently.
I'd also do them myself to make sure that anybody taking them could complete them in the time allowed. Most of the time I actually recommend against doing them because they also discriminate against people who say have kids and don't have time to do a 4-hour test in an evening or weekend.
It might well be that they aren't doing it to take advantage but just didn't think through how it looks. It'd be worth feeding back to them. |
Thanks for the replies.
Good point about doing an exercise that would not benefit the company.
She has been offered another job , so all's good. SEO seems to be (to me) phenomally well paid based on the amount of technical knowledge required - but as suggested it might not be a job that is here in the longer term - with AI etc. | | | |
| Interview process - your views on 17:03 - Nov 13 with 2652 views | factual_blue |
| Interview process - your views on 16:38 - Nov 13 by thebooks |
Your daughter’s 100% in the right. No respectable agency would ask for this amount of free consultancy — at best it indicates a disrespectful culture.
Also showing she value’s her time and therefore worth to a company/
Also, she should get out of SEO 😁 |
You've got to question any company, particularly in IT, that lets an outsider loose on their website in what is part of a candidate assessment process. They should have put together an exercise which they can properly assess against specific criteria. All the other candidates should be given the same test.
'Have a look at this and tell us what's wrong' is a rubbish test. |  |
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| Interview process - your views on 17:03 - Nov 13 with 2648 views | Basuco |
Good on your daughter, a friend of mine got caught doing exactly what your daughter refused to do, a lengthy piece of work, then did not even get an email or letter to say he was unsuccessful. |  | | |
| Interview process - your views on 17:08 - Nov 13 with 2610 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Does she have any union to seek advice from? That is what I would do in that situation. It would seem reasonable to expect to be paid for the work she is doing on the consultancy aspect at least.
However, as already stated, if the company expects an interview candidate to do that for free, they seem like best avoided as an employer. A frustrating waste of the time spent on interview, but also good practice for future interviews. How thoroughly did she look into the company's reputation in advance of the application? |  |
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| Interview process - your views on 17:16 - Nov 13 with 2593 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
This sadly seems to be increasingly common. My daughter is a Marketing Manager and was interviewed over the past two weeks for a job and exactly the same thig. They wanted her to review their website and write a blog, and create a presentation to new clients. She had gone through 3 interviews totalling 3 1/2 hours, and she did actually do the task, which took her a full day. She was invited to go in this morning, and they said they really liked her but they couldn't meet her salary expectations. So they got a free day of consultancy. If they'd outsourced that it probably would cost at least a grand. |  |
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| Interview process - your views on 17:29 - Nov 13 with 2532 views | heavyweight |
| Interview process - your views on 17:16 - Nov 13 by LegendofthePhoenix |
This sadly seems to be increasingly common. My daughter is a Marketing Manager and was interviewed over the past two weeks for a job and exactly the same thig. They wanted her to review their website and write a blog, and create a presentation to new clients. She had gone through 3 interviews totalling 3 1/2 hours, and she did actually do the task, which took her a full day. She was invited to go in this morning, and they said they really liked her but they couldn't meet her salary expectations. So they got a free day of consultancy. If they'd outsourced that it probably would cost at least a grand. |
That's very harsh. Hope she has more success next time. | | | |
| Interview process - your views on 17:37 - Nov 13 with 2487 views | factual_blue |
| Interview process - your views on 17:16 - Nov 13 by LegendofthePhoenix |
This sadly seems to be increasingly common. My daughter is a Marketing Manager and was interviewed over the past two weeks for a job and exactly the same thig. They wanted her to review their website and write a blog, and create a presentation to new clients. She had gone through 3 interviews totalling 3 1/2 hours, and she did actually do the task, which took her a full day. She was invited to go in this morning, and they said they really liked her but they couldn't meet her salary expectations. So they got a free day of consultancy. If they'd outsourced that it probably would cost at least a grand. |
Did she sign any disclaimers? If not, they've given her all their company's secrets.
What she does with them is entirely up to her. | |
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| Interview process - your views on 17:41 - Nov 13 with 2476 views | Jambo |
| Interview process - your views on 16:41 - Nov 13 by Dubtractor |
They are massively taking the piss.
3 interviews AND some free consultancy? If nothing else, they sound like a dreadful company to work for. |
Completely agree with DT.
They sound like a dreadful company to work for.
Out of interest was it a direct hire or were they using a recruiter?
If the latter then they need to be told that their client is well out of line.
If you can't choose someone after 2 interviews, either they don't know what they want. The job doesn't exist. Or they are just people on an ego trip getting off on asking questions for the sake of it |  | | |
| Interview process - your views on 17:43 - Nov 13 with 2464 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Interview process - your views on 17:37 - Nov 13 by factual_blue |
Did she sign any disclaimers? If not, they've given her all their company's secrets.
What she does with them is entirely up to her. |
No I'm pretty sure she didn't, but I think the data was largely taken from their website, so was already in the public domain. They just wanted to see how they could do a new marketing campaign. On the upside , she said that doing the work gave her some new ideas that she can use in her continuing search for a new job. | |
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| Interview process - your views on 17:45 - Nov 13 with 2452 views | factual_blue |
| Interview process - your views on 16:41 - Nov 13 by Dubtractor |
They are massively taking the piss.
3 interviews AND some free consultancy? If nothing else, they sound like a dreadful company to work for. |
What it also tells me is they have no idea how to go about running a sensible recruitment process. | |
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| Interview process - your views on 17:47 - Nov 13 with 2438 views | factual_blue |
| Interview process - your views on 17:43 - Nov 13 by LegendofthePhoenix |
No I'm pretty sure she didn't, but I think the data was largely taken from their website, so was already in the public domain. They just wanted to see how they could do a new marketing campaign. On the upside , she said that doing the work gave her some new ideas that she can use in her continuing search for a new job. |
A suggestion might then be to ask in future to sign a confidentiality clause about access they are giving their candidates. That'll make them think.
It all sounds very shoddy practice to me. | |
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| Interview process - your views on 17:54 - Nov 13 with 2405 views | crouchendyachtclub |
I was asked to do something similar recently. Not quite as big a task by the sounds of it it would have meant giving up 3 hours of my weekend. I declined, if 12 years experience don't mean I'm up to the job then an extra 3 hours aren't going to tip me over the threshold. | | | |
| Interview process - your views on 19:56 - Nov 13 with 2170 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Interview process - your views on 17:37 - Nov 13 by factual_blue |
Did she sign any disclaimers? If not, they've given her all their company's secrets.
What she does with them is entirely up to her. |
She should simply submit an invoice for the work she did unless they made it absolutely clear that it was unpaid work. | |
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| Interview process - your views on 20:17 - Nov 13 with 2099 views | bluelagos |
Have been out the game for a while, never heard of anything like it, cheeky fuggers.
Although am now wondering if I could suggest to a gardener that he cut my lawn as part of a test to see how well he does it... |  |
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| Interview process - your views on 21:20 - Nov 13 with 2014 views | SoCalTownFan |
and something that also happens, after you've invested a considerable amount of time any money and effort in to some long winded "we don't care about your time" process, they go with someone else, probably the internal candidate they wanted in the first place, and then don't even bother to let you know. Just ghosted. Happens all the time
If they were investing in me, hotels, dinners, travel, senior management time, to really get to know me and show they had a commitment, I might reciprocate, but after 3 1/2 hrs of interviews, I would be done.
My experience is that ALWAYS, how you are treated during the interview process reflects the company culture and a bad recruitment process that throws up dilemmas like this is all you need to know. Just walk away, chalk it up to experience and try a different role somewhere else. |  | | |
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