| The sad decline of Owen Jones 09:09 - Nov 20 with 26856 views | NeedhamChris |
I used to agree with a lot of what Owen was about even if his delivery was a bit much.
However, he's effectively now just an arm of the Hamas propaganda unit. A sad, sad decline. |  |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:42 - Nov 20 with 4568 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:37 - Nov 20 by baxterbasics |
Here is why we never get anywhere with these debates. They scream for evidence, and when it is presented it is dismissed as Israeli propaganda. Simultaneously quoting Hamas facts and figures without similar critique, deliberately ignoring the hypocrisy of this position. |
Oh I had that yesterday. You can’t call them Hamas facts and figures. Even though everything piece of information that comes out of Gaza is controlled by Hamas.
We’ve now reached the stage where the debate has descended to the point false equivalence between Hamas and Israel is the norm.
How far away from “Israel no longer has the right to exist” are we? [Post edited 20 Nov 2023 12:45]
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:45 - Nov 20 with 4564 views | Herbivore |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:37 - Nov 20 by baxterbasics |
Here is why we never get anywhere with these debates. They scream for evidence, and when it is presented it is dismissed as Israeli propaganda. Simultaneously quoting Hamas facts and figures without similar critique, deliberately ignoring the hypocrisy of this position. |
There is a legitimate question as to whether the presence of the hostages in and of itself is evidence that the hospital was being used as a command and control centre though, isn't there? It's evidence of Hamas being present there at a particular point in time but to say it's evidence that Hamas have been using the hospital as a command and control centre doesn't follow from that. I understand they've also found a tunnel, which looks to be stronger evidence potentially but I've not had a chance to read up about it as yet. Regardless, I still think there are legitimate questions about the proportionality of the action taken by the IDF in respect of the hospital. |  |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:45 - Nov 20 with 4552 views | Darth_Koont |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:42 - Nov 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Oh I had that yesterday. You can’t call them Hamas facts and figures. Even though everything piece of information that comes out of Gaza is controlled by Hamas.
We’ve now reached the stage where the debate has descended to the point false equivalence between Hamas and Israel is the norm.
How far away from “Israel no longer has the right to exist” are we? [Post edited 20 Nov 2023 12:45]
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Shameful.
Especially in light of the ongoing actions to clear Palestinians out of Israeli-controlled territories. |  |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:48 - Nov 20 with 4545 views | NeedhamChris |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:29 - Nov 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Yeah. I agree that Hen’s language is over emotive and hyperbolic. But I was linking Jones tweet without actually sharing it. And that was a screenshot that came up on my timeline. I refuse to give him any retweets because he’s just basically click bait these days.
The point the op was making, but didn’t link Jones tweet, is that he’s been screaming like a petulant schoolboy for evidence that Hamas were imbedded in the Al Shifa hospital. The IDF have spent days painstakingly dismantling booby traps before being able to do so and have released footage that people like Jones were demanding, including footage of two hostages being taken into Al Shifa (one injured and another forcibly manhandled with meat cleavers an rifles being waved at him, and Jones tries to frame it that those lovely fellows from Hamas are taking him to hospital for medical treatment.
This despite there being at least five other hospitals on the route from where the men were kidnapped and Al Shifa.
Jones is another Hamas useful idiot. Even Dan Hodges, of all people ,is taking the piss out of him. Just last week on Piers Morgan Jones stated that he wouldn’t believe anything coming from the Israelis, which is a fair enough position to hold in isolation, but he refused to answer if he would believe Hamas. [Post edited 20 Nov 2023 12:33]
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Yeah apologies, I thought I had when I hadn't (posting intermittently when we get internet on holiday). Like you - trying not to link to him directly as he is a left wing clickbaiter as much as a Laurence Fox was
But yes, that's the tweet but to be honest it's not a one off and just a culmination of his continued entrenchment in that position. It feels like an Oxford debating club to him imo, he has picked a side and as more evidence is presented he gets deeper and deeper in trying to justify it | |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:49 - Nov 20 with 4525 views | baxterbasics |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:45 - Nov 20 by Herbivore |
There is a legitimate question as to whether the presence of the hostages in and of itself is evidence that the hospital was being used as a command and control centre though, isn't there? It's evidence of Hamas being present there at a particular point in time but to say it's evidence that Hamas have been using the hospital as a command and control centre doesn't follow from that. I understand they've also found a tunnel, which looks to be stronger evidence potentially but I've not had a chance to read up about it as yet. Regardless, I still think there are legitimate questions about the proportionality of the action taken by the IDF in respect of the hospital. |
Trouble is it could be quite some time before anything that qualifies as 'independent verification' of the facts will be out there. By the time it does, few commentators will care any more. |  |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:50 - Nov 20 with 4517 views | lowhouseblue |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:29 - Nov 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Yeah. I agree that Hen’s language is over emotive and hyperbolic. But I was linking Jones tweet without actually sharing it. And that was a screenshot that came up on my timeline. I refuse to give him any retweets because he’s just basically click bait these days.
The point the op was making, but didn’t link Jones tweet, is that he’s been screaming like a petulant schoolboy for evidence that Hamas were imbedded in the Al Shifa hospital. The IDF have spent days painstakingly dismantling booby traps before being able to do so and have released footage that people like Jones were demanding, including footage of two hostages being taken into Al Shifa (one injured and another forcibly manhandled with meat cleavers an rifles being waved at him, and Jones tries to frame it that those lovely fellows from Hamas are taking him to hospital for medical treatment.
This despite there being at least five other hospitals on the route from where the men were kidnapped and Al Shifa.
Jones is another Hamas useful idiot. Even Dan Hodges, of all people ,is taking the piss out of him. Just last week on Piers Morgan Jones stated that he wouldn’t believe anything coming from the Israelis, which is a fair enough position to hold in isolation, but he refused to answer if he would believe Hamas. [Post edited 20 Nov 2023 12:33]
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jones has a one-sided and blinkered agenda. he wants simple and partisan answers in one of the worlds most complex and multi-faceted situations. it has left him playing the useful idiot and excusing the inexcusable. but he has lots of experience of that i guess. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:59 - Nov 20 with 4447 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:45 - Nov 20 by Herbivore |
There is a legitimate question as to whether the presence of the hostages in and of itself is evidence that the hospital was being used as a command and control centre though, isn't there? It's evidence of Hamas being present there at a particular point in time but to say it's evidence that Hamas have been using the hospital as a command and control centre doesn't follow from that. I understand they've also found a tunnel, which looks to be stronger evidence potentially but I've not had a chance to read up about it as yet. Regardless, I still think there are legitimate questions about the proportionality of the action taken by the IDF in respect of the hospital. |
And the body of another hostage doing a few metres from the hospital, the tunnels that you mention, the Kalashnikovs, grenades, explosive belts, and Hamas insignias etc.
And although under international law, if the hospital was being used by Hamas then it loses its protective status, I agree with you that the sheer destruction and loss of civilian life at the hospital is inexcusable.
I’ll also add that some of the NGOs working in and around the hospital have questions to answer. It’s been an open secret since 2014 that Hamas have been using Al Shifa. | |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 13:00 - Nov 20 with 4440 views | Herbivore |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:50 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
jones has a one-sided and blinkered agenda. he wants simple and partisan answers in one of the worlds most complex and multi-faceted situations. it has left him playing the useful idiot and excusing the inexcusable. but he has lots of experience of that i guess. |
I don't think what Jones posted is necessarily any worse than the tweet Glassers linked to which made unreasonable and rather inflammatory inferences about what Jones was saying. I don't disagree with the general characterisation of Jones as an idiot, how useful he is I'm less sure. | |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 13:02 - Nov 20 with 4416 views | giant_stow |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:45 - Nov 20 by Herbivore |
There is a legitimate question as to whether the presence of the hostages in and of itself is evidence that the hospital was being used as a command and control centre though, isn't there? It's evidence of Hamas being present there at a particular point in time but to say it's evidence that Hamas have been using the hospital as a command and control centre doesn't follow from that. I understand they've also found a tunnel, which looks to be stronger evidence potentially but I've not had a chance to read up about it as yet. Regardless, I still think there are legitimate questions about the proportionality of the action taken by the IDF in respect of the hospital. |
If the video in this link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/20/israel-hamas-war-al-shifa-gaza-pal is for real, rushing a hostage in at knife gun point under their own steam (so not injured) does seem to back up the theory that its some kind of Hamas facility. What other reason is there for taking an as yet unfound hostage in there? |  |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 13:07 - Nov 20 with 4370 views | GlasgowBlue |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 13:16 - Nov 20 with 4324 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 13:00 - Nov 20 by Herbivore |
I don't think what Jones posted is necessarily any worse than the tweet Glassers linked to which made unreasonable and rather inflammatory inferences about what Jones was saying. I don't disagree with the general characterisation of Jones as an idiot, how useful he is I'm less sure. |
Jones is equally capable of unreasonable and rather inflammatory inferences. His reply to Dan Hodges, who called his tweet embarrassing.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2023 13:18]
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 13:25 - Nov 20 with 4287 views | Herbivore |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 13:16 - Nov 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Jones is equally capable of unreasonable and rather inflammatory inferences. His reply to Dan Hodges, who called his tweet embarrassing.
[Post edited 20 Nov 2023 13:18]
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Can't we, at least, try to rise above throwing around unhelpful hyperbole though? | |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 13:38 - Nov 20 with 4246 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 13:25 - Nov 20 by Herbivore |
Can't we, at least, try to rise above throwing around unhelpful hyperbole though? |
That is by far the most inflammatory post I’ve read on TWTD in the last million years. | |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:06 - Nov 20 with 4090 views | GlasgowBlue |
https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/uk-doc-who-worked-at-al-shifa-hospital-confirms-its
UK doctor who worked at al-Shifa Hospital confirms it is used for ‘non-medical purposes’
“When I was first asked to work there [at Shifa], I was told there was a part of the hospital I was not to go near, and if I did, I’d be in danger of being shot,” he said.
“I stayed away, but I saw a few dodgy-looking non-medical characters going in and out all the time. It was a ward leading to a basement. As I said, I didn’t go there; so I behaved myself,” he added. | |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:15 - Nov 20 with 4059 views | eireblue |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 12:37 - Nov 20 by baxterbasics |
Here is why we never get anywhere with these debates. They scream for evidence, and when it is presented it is dismissed as Israeli propaganda. Simultaneously quoting Hamas facts and figures without similar critique, deliberately ignoring the hypocrisy of this position. |
I wonder if some commentators will explicitly understand that, when you say to a bunch of people, that building that you are in, guess what, in a few days time we are going to pop in and try to shoot you all, well…..you shouldn’t be expecting to see a scene somewhat similar to the end of many Bond movies.
It won’t surprise me if we see some people stating things along the lines of, call that a command and control centre, pffftt just looked like your average deserted tunnel complex to me. |  | | |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:16 - Nov 20 with 4053 views | RadioOrwell |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 11:54 - Nov 20 by GlasgowBlue |
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Hen Mazzig ( who he ? ) is being absurd.
Reposting that makes you look a lot more silly than Owen Jones. |  | | |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:26 - Nov 20 with 3995 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:16 - Nov 20 by RadioOrwell |
Hen Mazzig ( who he ? ) is being absurd.
Reposting that makes you look a lot more silly than Owen Jones. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_Mazzig
The sad decline of Owen Jones by GlasgowBlue 20 Nov 2023 12:29Yeah. I agree that Hen’s language is over emotive and hyperbolic. But I was linking Jones tweet without actually sharing it. And that was a screenshot that came up on my timeline. I refuse to give him any retweets because he’s just basically click bait these days.
The point the op was making, but didn’t link Jones tweet, is that he’s been screaming like a petulant schoolboy for evidence that Hamas were imbedded in the Al Shifa hospital. The IDF have spent days painstakingly dismantling booby traps before being able to do so and have released footage that people like Jones were demanding, including footage of two hostages being taken into Al Shifa (one injured and another forcibly manhandled with meat cleavers an rifles being waved at him, and Jones tries to frame it that those lovely fellows from Hamas are taking him to hospital for medical treatment.
This despite there being at least five other hospitals on the route from where the men were kidnapped and Al Shifa.
Jones is another Hamas useful idiot. Even Dan Hodges, of all people ,is taking the piss out of him. Just last week on Piers Morgan Jones stated that he wouldn’t believe anything coming from the Israelis, which is a fair enough position to hold in isolation, but he refused to answer if he would believe Hamas.
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:32 - Nov 20 with 3983 views | Blueschev |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:26 - Nov 20 by GlasgowBlue |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_Mazzig
The sad decline of Owen Jones by GlasgowBlue 20 Nov 2023 12:29Yeah. I agree that Hen’s language is over emotive and hyperbolic. But I was linking Jones tweet without actually sharing it. And that was a screenshot that came up on my timeline. I refuse to give him any retweets because he’s just basically click bait these days.
The point the op was making, but didn’t link Jones tweet, is that he’s been screaming like a petulant schoolboy for evidence that Hamas were imbedded in the Al Shifa hospital. The IDF have spent days painstakingly dismantling booby traps before being able to do so and have released footage that people like Jones were demanding, including footage of two hostages being taken into Al Shifa (one injured and another forcibly manhandled with meat cleavers an rifles being waved at him, and Jones tries to frame it that those lovely fellows from Hamas are taking him to hospital for medical treatment.
This despite there being at least five other hospitals on the route from where the men were kidnapped and Al Shifa.
Jones is another Hamas useful idiot. Even Dan Hodges, of all people ,is taking the piss out of him. Just last week on Piers Morgan Jones stated that he wouldn’t believe anything coming from the Israelis, which is a fair enough position to hold in isolation, but he refused to answer if he would believe Hamas.
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"Jones tries to frame it that those lovely fellows from Hamas are taking him to hospital for medical treatment." That is not what he is trying to say, and I don't believe you're thick enough to believe that it is. |  | | |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:38 - Nov 20 with 3949 views | itfcjoe |
Is now just a grifter, a shame as I really liked both Chavs and The Establishment - but he now just goes where the money is on YouTube - basically a left wing Douglas Murray |  |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:39 - Nov 20 with 3937 views | RadioOrwell |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:26 - Nov 20 by GlasgowBlue |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_Mazzig
The sad decline of Owen Jones by GlasgowBlue 20 Nov 2023 12:29Yeah. I agree that Hen’s language is over emotive and hyperbolic. But I was linking Jones tweet without actually sharing it. And that was a screenshot that came up on my timeline. I refuse to give him any retweets because he’s just basically click bait these days.
The point the op was making, but didn’t link Jones tweet, is that he’s been screaming like a petulant schoolboy for evidence that Hamas were imbedded in the Al Shifa hospital. The IDF have spent days painstakingly dismantling booby traps before being able to do so and have released footage that people like Jones were demanding, including footage of two hostages being taken into Al Shifa (one injured and another forcibly manhandled with meat cleavers an rifles being waved at him, and Jones tries to frame it that those lovely fellows from Hamas are taking him to hospital for medical treatment.
This despite there being at least five other hospitals on the route from where the men were kidnapped and Al Shifa.
Jones is another Hamas useful idiot. Even Dan Hodges, of all people ,is taking the piss out of him. Just last week on Piers Morgan Jones stated that he wouldn’t believe anything coming from the Israelis, which is a fair enough position to hold in isolation, but he refused to answer if he would believe Hamas.
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You should probably stop now. | | | |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:44 - Nov 20 with 3910 views | lowhouseblue |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:39 - Nov 20 by RadioOrwell |
You should probably stop now. |
there seems to be 2 interpretations of the events. one (jones) is that the hostages were being taken to the hospital for medical treatment. the other (idf) is that they were being taken through the hospital to a hamas facility. the fact that one hostage, who entered with non life threatening injuries, ended up murdered in the hospital grounds surely supports the second interpretation? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:47 - Nov 20 with 3903 views | Blueschev |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:44 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
there seems to be 2 interpretations of the events. one (jones) is that the hostages were being taken to the hospital for medical treatment. the other (idf) is that they were being taken through the hospital to a hamas facility. the fact that one hostage, who entered with non life threatening injuries, ended up murdered in the hospital grounds surely supports the second interpretation? |
I interpreted Jones point as the video in itself doesn't really prove a great deal either way, which to me it doesn't. | | | |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:54 - Nov 20 with 3875 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:39 - Nov 20 by RadioOrwell |
You should probably stop now. |
I'll cary on if it's all the same to you. There is an ignore function that you are more than welcome to use if my posts upset you that much. | |
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 17:05 - Nov 20 with 3838 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 16:32 - Nov 20 by Blueschev |
"Jones tries to frame it that those lovely fellows from Hamas are taking him to hospital for medical treatment." That is not what he is trying to say, and I don't believe you're thick enough to believe that it is. |
Yes he is. He says it later in the same thread.
OJ: "Would it be better if they then didn’t take injured hostages to a hospital for medical care?"
Please don't ask me to retweet his click bait. Look it up yourself. [Post edited 20 Nov 2023 17:07]
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| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 17:07 - Nov 20 with 3831 views | Blueschev |
| The sad decline of Owen Jones on 17:05 - Nov 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Yes he is. He says it later in the same thread.
OJ: "Would it be better if they then didn’t take injured hostages to a hospital for medical care?"
Please don't ask me to retweet his click bait. Look it up yourself. [Post edited 20 Nov 2023 17:07]
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I don't and would never have Twitter. I'm surprised you do. [Post edited 20 Nov 2023 17:08]
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