| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? 09:31 - Feb 5 with 11522 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
71. [Post edited 5 Feb 2024 9:32]
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 18:38 - Feb 5 with 2499 views | Churchman |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 10:18 - Feb 5 by itfcjoe |
Especially tough for women of my Mum's age, the WASPI lot, who saw it change from 60 to 65/66/67 - a lot of these women don't have enough 'stamps' to get full allowance as were still from a generation who didn't (and often weren't able to) work.....and if they did work they often weren't allowed to enter company pension schemes (which were very generous) |
Mrs C was hit with that. 60 to 66. Fortunately she has a small teachers’ pension and luckily we have enough money for our needs. I have also bought additional years contributions entitling her to near enough full new state pension.
The ‘cost’ of the increase to her was over £40k.i lost a year’s worth too. Given the max state pension you can claim is £8,600, that’s not a lot for people to live on if they have no other provision - which with the ending of final salary schemes and the nature of money purchase schemes, many people will not have going forward.
So to the reality. 71 year old roofers, tilers, policemen, firemen, teachers etc etc. Given half the people age 71 have medical issues. Add in ageism which is rife in this country and I can’t see how it’s going to work. France retirement age is increasing to a whopping 64 in 2032. Perhaps we should ship money over to them to keep it down to 62. Only fair.
Most Euro countries’ pensions are higher than ours. Perhaps the savings made increasing pension age to 71 should go to them to help their retirement be more comfortable. We effectively subsidise their transport, leccy and goodness knows what else so why not?
Lastly if you accept ‘one man’s spending is another man’s income’ then pension spending accounts for a big chunk of the national economy. This is the country that is effectively eating itself. A race to the bottom on poverty - with the exception of the privileged, of course. |  | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 19:39 - Feb 5 with 2473 views | TractorWood |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 17:57 - Feb 5 by nodge_blue |
That might have to happen. But its not fair on workers who have both paid their national insurance and also sacrificed salary to fund a pension. |
Just another gigantic mishandling of trillions of pounds the country will be paying off for decades. Standard stuff in Britain. |  |
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 19:43 - Feb 5 with 2468 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 18:38 - Feb 5 by Churchman |
Mrs C was hit with that. 60 to 66. Fortunately she has a small teachers’ pension and luckily we have enough money for our needs. I have also bought additional years contributions entitling her to near enough full new state pension.
The ‘cost’ of the increase to her was over £40k.i lost a year’s worth too. Given the max state pension you can claim is £8,600, that’s not a lot for people to live on if they have no other provision - which with the ending of final salary schemes and the nature of money purchase schemes, many people will not have going forward.
So to the reality. 71 year old roofers, tilers, policemen, firemen, teachers etc etc. Given half the people age 71 have medical issues. Add in ageism which is rife in this country and I can’t see how it’s going to work. France retirement age is increasing to a whopping 64 in 2032. Perhaps we should ship money over to them to keep it down to 62. Only fair.
Most Euro countries’ pensions are higher than ours. Perhaps the savings made increasing pension age to 71 should go to them to help their retirement be more comfortable. We effectively subsidise their transport, leccy and goodness knows what else so why not?
Lastly if you accept ‘one man’s spending is another man’s income’ then pension spending accounts for a big chunk of the national economy. This is the country that is effectively eating itself. A race to the bottom on poverty - with the exception of the privileged, of course. |
Not Policemen/women though who still retire ‘early’
My brother who is in a senior position at Cambridgeshire Fire Service has been told he will not be able to retire ‘early’ as used to happen but work until normal pension age.
The kicker - he’ll still need to pass the same physical as when he joined at 25. Fail, and you could be fired. Who wants and should want a 65 year old clambering up a ladder to carry them back down? |  | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 20:04 - Feb 5 with 2439 views | Churchman |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 12:55 - Feb 5 by baxterbasics |
In reality, as much as it sucks this is unavoidable considering many people retiring at that age will live another 30 or 40 years more, some as many as 50! |
Let’s increase pension age to 71 and be top of the league at something. Hurrah!
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/retirement-age-men
Other countries can afford to look after people in their old age, many of whom will have paid in far more than they were paid out. With our £3tn economy we are told we can’t. Of course we can.
Perhaps the Spartan approach of leaving the old out on a hillside when their usefulness is done is the way forward? Johnson’s ‘natures way of dealing with old people’ taken to a new level?
What sort of country have we become? [Post edited 5 Feb 2024 20:07]
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 21:07 - Feb 5 with 2417 views | Aviator |
One of the problems is people are retiring too early because they can afford it.
What they need to do is scrap employee's NI and increase the basic rate of income tax to say 25%. That's probably tax neutral, but gives working people a 5% pay rise. Keep the 20% rate for people over pensionable age. Keep the basic income tax threshold frozen for a good while yet. Increase the 40% band to say £70K.
When they do eventually raise the new 25% threshold from £12,500, keep a 10% rate from £12,500 - that way everyone pays something - Gordon had it right.
Tories have started to reduce NI, so it's going in the right direction. |  | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 21:22 - Feb 5 with 2399 views | bazza |
Army pensions start at 50.. |  | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 21:52 - Feb 5 with 2379 views | Leaky |
Well at least they have a few years notice to build up a pension pot |  | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 15:55 - Feb 6 with 2281 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Time to reach for the yellow high vizs and burn a few cars in the street
It’s 50 if you want to take out your private pension is it not? Or at least it was when I did. | |
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 16:22 - Feb 6 with 2266 views | DJR |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 21:07 - Feb 5 by Aviator |
One of the problems is people are retiring too early because they can afford it.
What they need to do is scrap employee's NI and increase the basic rate of income tax to say 25%. That's probably tax neutral, but gives working people a 5% pay rise. Keep the 20% rate for people over pensionable age. Keep the basic income tax threshold frozen for a good while yet. Increase the 40% band to say £70K.
When they do eventually raise the new 25% threshold from £12,500, keep a 10% rate from £12,500 - that way everyone pays something - Gordon had it right.
Tories have started to reduce NI, so it's going in the right direction. |
This is an idea that has been knocking about for a while, and this is a recent report on it, although it proposes something slightly different to what you suggest with a lower rate for pensioners.
https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/should-income-tax-and-national-in
In terms of transparency, simplification and fairness, yours is a good idea, but I doubt any government would go down this route (or the IFS route) for political reasons because there would no doubt be some group complaining. [Post edited 6 Feb 2024 16:24]
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 17:16 - Feb 6 with 2239 views | mutters |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 21:52 - Feb 5 by Leaky |
Well at least they have a few years notice to build up a pension pot |
Yes and no. When I started it was 65 retirement, I am now in my late 40s and have been planning to retire at 60ish so all my investments etc have been working on that, with the state pension kicking in at 68 now. It has already gone up three years since I started working.
If they change the goalposts to saying that it doesn't kick in till 71 and also push back the date that private pensions could start, it does seem a bit unfair. I honestly believe that your state retirement date should be fixed on the day you start paying into the system. |  |
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 17:32 - Feb 6 with 2230 views | baxterbasics |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 21:07 - Feb 5 by Aviator |
One of the problems is people are retiring too early because they can afford it.
What they need to do is scrap employee's NI and increase the basic rate of income tax to say 25%. That's probably tax neutral, but gives working people a 5% pay rise. Keep the 20% rate for people over pensionable age. Keep the basic income tax threshold frozen for a good while yet. Increase the 40% band to say £70K.
When they do eventually raise the new 25% threshold from £12,500, keep a 10% rate from £12,500 - that way everyone pays something - Gordon had it right.
Tories have started to reduce NI, so it's going in the right direction. |
I've long been an advocate for scrapping NI altogether and just taking it via income tax instead. Surely there would be savings to be made on the admin alone, on top of the other benefits. |  |
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 18:01 - Feb 6 with 2203 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 15:55 - Feb 6 by ElephantintheRoom |
Time to reach for the yellow high vizs and burn a few cars in the street
It’s 50 if you want to take out your private pension is it not? Or at least it was when I did. |
55. But that’s going up to 57 in 2028. |  |
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 18:21 - Feb 6 with 2191 views | bluelagos |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 17:32 - Feb 6 by baxterbasics |
I've long been an advocate for scrapping NI altogether and just taking it via income tax instead. Surely there would be savings to be made on the admin alone, on top of the other benefits. |
2 downsides.
How would you calculate who had paid enough to get a full pension? British expats could work tax free in the middle east for 40 years come home in their 60s and get a full pension?
And by combining them, to get the same tax take the basic rate would need to increase from 20 to around 30%. Which would mean pensioners with incomes over 12k would pay higher taxes than now (They don't pay NI)
So not as easy as it maybe seems. [Post edited 6 Feb 2024 18:22]
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 19:51 - Feb 6 with 2142 views | mutters |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 18:21 - Feb 6 by bluelagos |
2 downsides.
How would you calculate who had paid enough to get a full pension? British expats could work tax free in the middle east for 40 years come home in their 60s and get a full pension?
And by combining them, to get the same tax take the basic rate would need to increase from 20 to around 30%. Which would mean pensioners with incomes over 12k would pay higher taxes than now (They don't pay NI)
So not as easy as it maybe seems. [Post edited 6 Feb 2024 18:22]
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Unless those expats were paying into the system then they wouldn't qualify for the max pension. You need 35 years of contributions to get the full state pension as it currently stands | |
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 22:42 - Feb 6 with 2087 views | Aviator |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 18:21 - Feb 6 by bluelagos |
2 downsides.
How would you calculate who had paid enough to get a full pension? British expats could work tax free in the middle east for 40 years come home in their 60s and get a full pension?
And by combining them, to get the same tax take the basic rate would need to increase from 20 to around 30%. Which would mean pensioners with incomes over 12k would pay higher taxes than now (They don't pay NI)
So not as easy as it maybe seems. [Post edited 6 Feb 2024 18:22]
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You could base pension on income tax record, I guess, but really I'm not that fussed about the odd expat.
More people pay income tax than NI, so I don't think it would need to go to 30%.
Yes pension income and investment income would be taxed more highly, but I suggest the rate should remain the same (currently 20%) for over 67s. | | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 23:02 - Feb 6 with 2073 views | Churchman |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 22:42 - Feb 6 by Aviator |
You could base pension on income tax record, I guess, but really I'm not that fussed about the odd expat.
More people pay income tax than NI, so I don't think it would need to go to 30%.
Yes pension income and investment income would be taxed more highly, but I suggest the rate should remain the same (currently 20%) for over 67s. |
An interesting article from IFS.
https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/how-do-uk-tax-revenues-compare-in
Basically, our services are poor by comparison with peers because aside from catastrophic political intervention and poor management we simply don’t pay as much for them. It’s dead simple. You get what you pay for.
The exception is the US where if you are rich, life is good as you can afford your insurance for stuff like healthcare. If you are not so well off or poor, good luck. This is the model the U.K. seek to copy.
Personally, I believe it to be uncivilised and don’t agree with it. | | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 07:37 - Feb 7 with 1985 views | bluelagos |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 22:42 - Feb 6 by Aviator |
You could base pension on income tax record, I guess, but really I'm not that fussed about the odd expat.
More people pay income tax than NI, so I don't think it would need to go to 30%.
Yes pension income and investment income would be taxed more highly, but I suggest the rate should remain the same (currently 20%) for over 67s. |
Google says NI take is 176bn (presume that is employer and employee)
Also 1% tax cut worh 5.25Bn in tax
So clearly combining income tax and NI would see significant tax rises to balance the books. I do see the benefit (less cost running 1 system) but it wouldn't be as easy as presented. If it was, they'd have done it years ago. | |
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 07:47 - Feb 7 with 1970 views | DJR |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 23:02 - Feb 6 by Churchman |
An interesting article from IFS.
https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/how-do-uk-tax-revenues-compare-in
Basically, our services are poor by comparison with peers because aside from catastrophic political intervention and poor management we simply don’t pay as much for them. It’s dead simple. You get what you pay for.
The exception is the US where if you are rich, life is good as you can afford your insurance for stuff like healthcare. If you are not so well off or poor, good luck. This is the model the U.K. seek to copy.
Personally, I believe it to be uncivilised and don’t agree with it. |
This really needs to be shouted to the rafters but instead both main parties (but not the SNP who do have higher rates of income tax) pretend it is possible to have both low taxes and decent public services.
As it is, an English friend of mine who has lived in France for 30 years, and who recently had a prostate operation there, says he wouldn't touch the NHS with a barge pole. | | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 08:27 - Feb 7 with 1931 views | Churchman |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 07:47 - Feb 7 by DJR |
This really needs to be shouted to the rafters but instead both main parties (but not the SNP who do have higher rates of income tax) pretend it is possible to have both low taxes and decent public services.
As it is, an English friend of mine who has lived in France for 30 years, and who recently had a prostate operation there, says he wouldn't touch the NHS with a barge pole. |
It does need to be shouted out. Nobody is saying improving efficiency cutting waste and better management isn’t needed. But underpinning this is money. Without it, forget it.
What has the policy been for the past 14 years. Cuts, cuts, cuts. Why? Because of politicians basic hatred of public services and the idea of ‘society’ There was never any economic justification for Cameron/Osborne’s Austerity war. In fact, their hatred was so deep they didn’t actually care if it harmed the economy. It was and still is a war based on rich men’s personal interest, bogus ideology and contempt for 99% of the population.
I suppose given these lizards managed to mug the population off in the 1980s selling public assets to the people that the people already owned, they think that selling insanity with lies is easy. And to an extent it is. Just tell lies.
Cut funding, place the blame for crumbling services somewhere else. Simple. Pension age? Raise it. Consequences? Who cares, not our problem. That’s this mob in a nutshell. | | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 08:41 - Feb 7 with 1911 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 08:27 - Feb 7 by Churchman |
It does need to be shouted out. Nobody is saying improving efficiency cutting waste and better management isn’t needed. But underpinning this is money. Without it, forget it.
What has the policy been for the past 14 years. Cuts, cuts, cuts. Why? Because of politicians basic hatred of public services and the idea of ‘society’ There was never any economic justification for Cameron/Osborne’s Austerity war. In fact, their hatred was so deep they didn’t actually care if it harmed the economy. It was and still is a war based on rich men’s personal interest, bogus ideology and contempt for 99% of the population.
I suppose given these lizards managed to mug the population off in the 1980s selling public assets to the people that the people already owned, they think that selling insanity with lies is easy. And to an extent it is. Just tell lies.
Cut funding, place the blame for crumbling services somewhere else. Simple. Pension age? Raise it. Consequences? Who cares, not our problem. That’s this mob in a nutshell. |
It doesn't help when it appears to be the case that the more you pay in tax the less you seem to get in services! I can only assume that the private providers of public services must be creaming off enough to pay for their Teslas etc...etc.
Seeing Wes Streeting on telly this morning acting all sanctimonious and knowing he will offer more of the same was enough to make me sick. | |
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 08:46 - Feb 7 with 1901 views | DJR |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 08:27 - Feb 7 by Churchman |
It does need to be shouted out. Nobody is saying improving efficiency cutting waste and better management isn’t needed. But underpinning this is money. Without it, forget it.
What has the policy been for the past 14 years. Cuts, cuts, cuts. Why? Because of politicians basic hatred of public services and the idea of ‘society’ There was never any economic justification for Cameron/Osborne’s Austerity war. In fact, their hatred was so deep they didn’t actually care if it harmed the economy. It was and still is a war based on rich men’s personal interest, bogus ideology and contempt for 99% of the population.
I suppose given these lizards managed to mug the population off in the 1980s selling public assets to the people that the people already owned, they think that selling insanity with lies is easy. And to an extent it is. Just tell lies.
Cut funding, place the blame for crumbling services somewhere else. Simple. Pension age? Raise it. Consequences? Who cares, not our problem. That’s this mob in a nutshell. |
And things like this are the consequence, which is not fair for those without the means.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/07/hundreds-of-thousands-of-uk-canc | | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 08:58 - Feb 7 with 1886 views | durhamj |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 10:35 - Feb 5 by DanTheMan |
I'm trying not to bank on ever getting it. |
They'll find some excuse not to give it; age, savings, house or whatever. You're right best not to budget for it at all. Nice bonus if it arrives. | | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 09:11 - Feb 7 with 1875 views | Churchman |
Ta. It’s scary stuff. With regard to Mrs C they’ve been pretty quick in doing what they do. We will find out tomorrow when her operation is and what is likely to follow. If I get any hint of delay to subsequent treatment, I will use anything available, including the private route. I’m not p*ssing about.
But then I have the means to do that. As you point out, what about the people that don’t?
Of course one of the consequences of delay is greater cost to the NHS as by definition treatment will be longer and more extensive the longer a disease is allowed to spread. Doesn’t apply to King Charles of course… | | | |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 09:29 - Feb 7 with 1865 views | DJR |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 09:11 - Feb 7 by Churchman |
Ta. It’s scary stuff. With regard to Mrs C they’ve been pretty quick in doing what they do. We will find out tomorrow when her operation is and what is likely to follow. If I get any hint of delay to subsequent treatment, I will use anything available, including the private route. I’m not p*ssing about.
But then I have the means to do that. As you point out, what about the people that don’t?
Of course one of the consequences of delay is greater cost to the NHS as by definition treatment will be longer and more extensive the longer a disease is allowed to spread. Doesn’t apply to King Charles of course… |
It may well depend on where you live.
My wife's brother-in-law was admitted to hospital in Liverpool yesterday and her sister said it was like a war zone, and infinitely worse than before Christmas when my wife's dad was admitted to hospital (and it was pretty awful then).
Her brother-in-law had a mini-stroke but was sent home, as was an elderly woman who had just broken her hip. There just isn't the bed or medical capacity to cope but I sense the position is better in places like West Kent, with perhaps an overall healthier population.
Sadly, pressures on the NHS just aren't being reported anymore.
I wonder why? [Post edited 7 Feb 2024 14:01]
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| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 12:55 - Feb 7 with 1770 views | Churchman |
| Any of you young'uns seen the exciting pension news? on 09:29 - Feb 7 by DJR |
It may well depend on where you live.
My wife's brother-in-law was admitted to hospital in Liverpool yesterday and her sister said it was like a war zone, and infinitely worse than before Christmas when my wife's dad was admitted to hospital (and it was pretty awful then).
Her brother-in-law had a mini-stroke but was sent home, as was an elderly woman who had just broken her hip. There just isn't the bed or medical capacity to cope but I sense the position is better in places like West Kent, with perhaps an overall healthier population.
Sadly, pressures on the NHS just aren't being reported anymore.
I wonder why? [Post edited 7 Feb 2024 14:01]
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Chatting to the ambulance men who moved my dad before Christmas, that’s how they described Ipswich Hospital. A war zone. Huge waits apparently, trolleys in corridors.
The experience locally with Mrs C to date (3 visits since the turn of the year) was one wait for 45 mins beyond her appointment time and two on time. Maidstone tomorrow to see the Consultant so we will see what that looks like.
Let’s hope King Charles didn’t have to wait too long.
As for reporting stuff, everything is such a mess maybe they rotate what to report on? | | | |
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