| Is the standard of driving getting worse? 08:48 - Feb 13 with 10002 views | geg1992 |
Just saw a very near accident on the A14 where the Shell garage slip road joins. A white Hyundai joined without even considering a lorry in lane 1, which had to swerve aggressively, almost tipping over and coming within inches of hitting another car. Fair play to the lorry driver!!
Seem to be seeing these sorts of incidents more and more often recently. People don't seem to understand that a slip road gives you no priority to the joining traffic, it's a give way! |  |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:08 - Feb 13 with 1667 views | BlueBadger |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 09:56 - Feb 13 by bluelagos |
Pretty sure dual carriage way driving is part of the test.
I'd actually challenge the argument that our driving is worse than elsewhere. You'll see far far worse in Italy, Portugal, Spain.
In Belgium I was once undertaken in the lane I was in on a motorway. They are truly mental there.
*Germany, Austria and Switzerland aside - they are cool in my experience. |
Father in law lives in Portugal. We're there 2-3 times a year, can testify that the driving(and vehicle) standards there are terrifying. Although, the roads are generally in much better nick. |  |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:08 - Feb 13 with 1668 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 09:56 - Feb 13 by bluelagos |
Pretty sure dual carriage way driving is part of the test.
I'd actually challenge the argument that our driving is worse than elsewhere. You'll see far far worse in Italy, Portugal, Spain.
In Belgium I was once undertaken in the lane I was in on a motorway. They are truly mental there.
*Germany, Austria and Switzerland aside - they are cool in my experience. |
That’s why anecdotal evidence isn’t reliable. In terms of road deaths we have some of the safest in Europe:
In absolute terms, comparing road deaths per million inhabitants, both the UK and Denmark had the equal third lowest figure in 2022 with 26 deaths per million inhabitants.
I actually quit road cycling because of the potholes rather than drivers. They are craterous and every where. If you hit one badly with a car behind you, you are done for! |  | | |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:13 - Feb 13 with 1635 views | Guthrum |
People drive without consideration for others because they think that's less important than whatever they're doing. That internalisation means they're not paying as much attention to what's going on around them, either.
They may be on the phone (even hands-free is a distraction, requiring the participant to think about something other than their surroundings) or listening to rile-you-up radio.
In addition, cars are bigger and more powerful than a few decades ago. Making it easier to get into trouble and being more of an obstruction when they do. |  |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:13 - Feb 13 with 1635 views | bluelagos |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:08 - Feb 13 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
That’s why anecdotal evidence isn’t reliable. In terms of road deaths we have some of the safest in Europe:
In absolute terms, comparing road deaths per million inhabitants, both the UK and Denmark had the equal third lowest figure in 2022 with 26 deaths per million inhabitants.
I actually quit road cycling because of the potholes rather than drivers. They are craterous and every where. If you hit one badly with a car behind you, you are done for! |
Indeed. The standard of driving in the UK is genuinely far higher than most places in the world - as backed up by the stats.
Now Lagos driving - that was fun! |  |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:25 - Feb 13 with 1593 views | geg1992 |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:13 - Feb 13 by bluelagos |
Indeed. The standard of driving in the UK is genuinely far higher than most places in the world - as backed up by the stats.
Now Lagos driving - that was fun! |
I've not experienced driving in Lagos but my Dad told me it's worse than Togo or Benin and those were scary!!! | |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:33 - Feb 13 with 1583 views | Guthrum |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 09:05 - Feb 13 by NthQldITFC |
I see a lot of swerving w@nkers on phones, hyper-aggressive delivery drivers bunging Red Bull cans out of windows, young and old drivers alike too impatient to wait for clear road to overtake a bicycle. It is WAY more dangerous round my way than it used to be, partly through constant house-building AND deteriorating, 'unimproved' roads.
I've had several very close escapes recently and so have some of those drivers if only they knew it.
I think it quite likely that I will die on the road on my bike.
So yes. |
You make a good point in there. The sheer weight of traffic is massively more than it was even 20 or 30 years ago. The number of vehicles on the road.
In my youth, I worked at the Newmarket Happy Eater, on the south side of the A45. There was no proper local access, so we had to cross the road - three lanes each way - on foot before and after shifts. There were never any accidents involving staff (certainly not in my time), quite big gaps in the traffic made it relatively easy. But I would never dare do that nowadays, would be suicidal. [Post edited 13 Feb 2024 10:34]
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:39 - Feb 13 with 1558 views | Radlett_blue |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 09:01 - Feb 13 by GeoffSentence |
Not sure if the standard of driving is getting worse in general, but as the number of drivers increases there will be a corresponding increase in crap ones. Likewise as the number of people driving increases the roads get more crowded and this sort of thing is more likely to happen. |
100%. And people's lives are busier (or they think they are) so drivers feel under pressure to get to their destination ASAP. |  |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:57 - Feb 13 with 1524 views | NthQldITFC |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:33 - Feb 13 by Guthrum |
You make a good point in there. The sheer weight of traffic is massively more than it was even 20 or 30 years ago. The number of vehicles on the road.
In my youth, I worked at the Newmarket Happy Eater, on the south side of the A45. There was no proper local access, so we had to cross the road - three lanes each way - on foot before and after shifts. There were never any accidents involving staff (certainly not in my time), quite big gaps in the traffic made it relatively easy. But I would never dare do that nowadays, would be suicidal. [Post edited 13 Feb 2024 10:34]
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The weight thing is also (literally) exacerbated by the extraordinary and utterly damning reality that the number of unnecessary, shiny, road use only, big, heavy 4WDs has gone UP despite the impending climate catastrophe and the impact on us, our children and our grandchildren (possibly).
Overpopulation on a local and world scale is, of course, another factor, but for some reason everybody wants to chase the insane idea of perpetual growth, right up until the end - but I digress (as usual :))...
The standard of driving reflects the society we have become. It's sh!t! And getting sh!tter. |  |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:04 - Feb 13 with 1509 views | DanTheMan |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:57 - Feb 13 by NthQldITFC |
The weight thing is also (literally) exacerbated by the extraordinary and utterly damning reality that the number of unnecessary, shiny, road use only, big, heavy 4WDs has gone UP despite the impending climate catastrophe and the impact on us, our children and our grandchildren (possibly).
Overpopulation on a local and world scale is, of course, another factor, but for some reason everybody wants to chase the insane idea of perpetual growth, right up until the end - but I digress (as usual :))...
The standard of driving reflects the society we have become. It's sh!t! And getting sh!tter. |
Quickly on the overpopulation, it's worth noting that the growth rate is slowing fairly dramatically and the population will probably plateau before 2100 and then start decreasing. Certainly a good thing for the long-term future. |  |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:09 - Feb 13 with 1500 views | Bigalhunter |
Had the misfortune to have my daughter’s new boyfriend drive us over to B&Q recently.
Nice enough lad, but it’s become worryingly apparent that he turns into a complete moron when there’s a steering wheel in front of him.
Utterly oblivious to any speed limit.
Approaches every give way junction with a minimal reduction in speed, gives it a quick left right glance and goes anyway.
See cyclists as an obstacle to be negotiated as quickly as possible regardless of what’s coming the other way.
Ploughs down 20mph narrow side streets with a joyful disregard expecting everything to give way and doesn’t even acknowledge the courtesy as some poor sod swings into the kerb to let him through.
He got rightly beeped on x2 occasions during our 30 minute round trip and seemed genuinely baffled on both occasions.
‘F***s their problem?’ was his response on both occasions.
Was equally baffled when I told him he was the worst driver I’d ever been in a car with, as he swung into the disabled spot nearest the main entrance ‘cos it’s raining’
Started calling me ‘pops’ in the last few months as well, which is another worrying development that will need addressing…. |  |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:09 - Feb 13 with 1491 views | Guthrum |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 09:10 - Feb 13 by StokieBlue |
As an extension of this, the dedicated cycle lanes in London are now full of electric bikes (mainly delivery ones) where the owner has disabled the maximum speed and they come hurtling past you in the cycle lane at about 40mph.
It essentially makes it an electric motorbike, they don't pedal and just zoom about at ridiculous speeds with no recourse given there is no number plate to link them back to an action.
It's utterly ridiculous.
SB |
Which actually puts them into a different category licence-wise (i.e. they would need one, plus CBT and stuff). However, can't see the police having the resources to enforce this more than extremely rarely. | |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:11 - Feb 13 with 1487 views | Radlett_blue |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:04 - Feb 13 by DanTheMan |
Quickly on the overpopulation, it's worth noting that the growth rate is slowing fairly dramatically and the population will probably plateau before 2100 and then start decreasing. Certainly a good thing for the long-term future. |
Demographics are near inescapable & yes, this will eventually slow the rise of the UK population. While this might reduce pressure on housing & space, having a predominantly elderly population is bad for tax revenue & government spending, especially health care. However, the major European economies have worse demographic issues than the UK. | |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:12 - Feb 13 with 1487 views | mellowblue |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:01 - Feb 13 by DanTheMan |
Italy was bloody terrifying, there might as well have been no rules at all. |
Sicily is truly the "wild west" when it comes to driving, there truly are no rules, it is a free for all. I quite enjoy it. | | | |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:16 - Feb 13 with 1483 views | Radlett_blue |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:09 - Feb 13 by Bigalhunter |
Had the misfortune to have my daughter’s new boyfriend drive us over to B&Q recently.
Nice enough lad, but it’s become worryingly apparent that he turns into a complete moron when there’s a steering wheel in front of him.
Utterly oblivious to any speed limit.
Approaches every give way junction with a minimal reduction in speed, gives it a quick left right glance and goes anyway.
See cyclists as an obstacle to be negotiated as quickly as possible regardless of what’s coming the other way.
Ploughs down 20mph narrow side streets with a joyful disregard expecting everything to give way and doesn’t even acknowledge the courtesy as some poor sod swings into the kerb to let him through.
He got rightly beeped on x2 occasions during our 30 minute round trip and seemed genuinely baffled on both occasions.
‘F***s their problem?’ was his response on both occasions.
Was equally baffled when I told him he was the worst driver I’d ever been in a car with, as he swung into the disabled spot nearest the main entrance ‘cos it’s raining’
Started calling me ‘pops’ in the last few months as well, which is another worrying development that will need addressing…. |
Unfortunately, driving lessons teach one how to pass the driving test, not how to drive. Hence ypoung males have very poor accident records (usually as a result of driving too fast) but good luck with finding a way of improving this (beyond self driving cars). | |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:22 - Feb 13 with 1473 views | baxterbasics |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:04 - Feb 13 by DanTheMan |
Quickly on the overpopulation, it's worth noting that the growth rate is slowing fairly dramatically and the population will probably plateau before 2100 and then start decreasing. Certainly a good thing for the long-term future. |
Can be debated whether declining population is a good thing or not, especially when combined with aging. But you are right, fears about overpopulation are overdone - it's a red herring. |  |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:30 - Feb 13 with 1452 views | BlueBadger |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 10:01 - Feb 13 by DanTheMan |
Italy was bloody terrifying, there might as well have been no rules at all. |
Once went to Pompeii from Naples by cab. At one point, the driver(whilst still driving at hair-raising speed) turned round to us and said 'is like video game, eh?' | |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:32 - Feb 13 with 1449 views | MattinLondon |
Despite being in my forties I am (compared to many on here) a relatively new driver and therefore i can’t really comment on whether driving is perceived to be getting worse.
From what I remember my driving instructor telling me - the test is harder than what it has ever been and therefore driving should be getting better but it’s not (according to him). As a then learner, a lot of people were incredibly impatient. Beeping for going the limit, beeping for taking longer than what an experienced driver would take. Most things boiled down to impatience.Also, road rage is considered a legitimate excuse - it’s not, just another form of self-importance.
I do find it odd that I could pass my test one day and the next I could lawfully go 70mph on motorways with no experience whatsoever. I do think that passing a driving test should be in stages with nighttime driving and motorway driving only allowed for new drivers after so much specialised lessons. |  | | |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:34 - Feb 13 with 1432 views | DanTheMan |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:22 - Feb 13 by baxterbasics |
Can be debated whether declining population is a good thing or not, especially when combined with aging. But you are right, fears about overpopulation are overdone - it's a red herring. |
It'll be rough with an ageing population (at least if we're talking European demographics) but I think overall it'll be better, at some point there just won't be physically enough room to grow food, especially in combination with things like climate change causing havoc.
I think without migration at the moment we'd actually be losing population in the UK. I guess depending on who you ask that might be a good or bad thing. | |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:35 - Feb 13 with 1431 views | bluelagos |
Not that it disproves the OP (who clearly witnessed some poor driving) but the stats - see chart 1 - clearly show we are far safer than ever before.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-
Edit: Some of that will be safer cars, introduction of seat belts, helmets for bikers etc. rather than improved driving. [Post edited 13 Feb 2024 11:37]
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:36 - Feb 13 with 1425 views | DanTheMan |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:30 - Feb 13 by BlueBadger |
Once went to Pompeii from Naples by cab. At one point, the driver(whilst still driving at hair-raising speed) turned round to us and said 'is like video game, eh?' |
A very similar drive to what we did, went from Naples and then past Pompeii down to Paestum where there are some rather beautiful Greek temples.
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:39 - Feb 13 with 1409 views | bluelagos |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:30 - Feb 13 by BlueBadger |
Once went to Pompeii from Naples by cab. At one point, the driver(whilst still driving at hair-raising speed) turned round to us and said 'is like video game, eh?' |
I once got off a bus in Kenya as the driver was happily driving on the wrong side round blind bends.
When I got off (to wait for the next bus) the driver was genuinely upset and told me I wouldn't get a refund. I told him he was welcome to keep his 70p fare.
In countries with a strong religious belief there can be a fatalistic view on life - "God will protect me" being a common belief. | |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:44 - Feb 13 with 1399 views | bluelagos |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:09 - Feb 13 by Bigalhunter |
Had the misfortune to have my daughter’s new boyfriend drive us over to B&Q recently.
Nice enough lad, but it’s become worryingly apparent that he turns into a complete moron when there’s a steering wheel in front of him.
Utterly oblivious to any speed limit.
Approaches every give way junction with a minimal reduction in speed, gives it a quick left right glance and goes anyway.
See cyclists as an obstacle to be negotiated as quickly as possible regardless of what’s coming the other way.
Ploughs down 20mph narrow side streets with a joyful disregard expecting everything to give way and doesn’t even acknowledge the courtesy as some poor sod swings into the kerb to let him through.
He got rightly beeped on x2 occasions during our 30 minute round trip and seemed genuinely baffled on both occasions.
‘F***s their problem?’ was his response on both occasions.
Was equally baffled when I told him he was the worst driver I’d ever been in a car with, as he swung into the disabled spot nearest the main entrance ‘cos it’s raining’
Started calling me ‘pops’ in the last few months as well, which is another worrying development that will need addressing…. |
https://www.iamroadsmart.com/
£170 odd quid - could be the best money you ever spend. I paid for a loved one - and her driving has been transformed.
You don't know what you don't know - and it sounds like the daughter's bf genuinely hasn't got a scooby how to drive. | |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:47 - Feb 13 with 1390 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:36 - Feb 13 by DanTheMan |
A very similar drive to what we did, went from Naples and then past Pompeii down to Paestum where there are some rather beautiful Greek temples.
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I go to Naples and the surrounding area quite often for work.
Driving is utterly lawless - but because of that, it works. Everyone knows the score, so no-one gets the hump with another driver.
And roundabouts are something else - if you're on the roundabout, there's no right of way for you, if anything, the done thing is to pull out on to it and merge in turn. |  |
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| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:49 - Feb 13 with 1381 views | davblue |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:30 - Feb 13 by BlueBadger |
Once went to Pompeii from Naples by cab. At one point, the driver(whilst still driving at hair-raising speed) turned round to us and said 'is like video game, eh?' |
my dad told me about a driver in the states probably about 10/12 years ago now.
They were at a conference and were in town beforehand before flagging down a taxi. In the end they got a Limo and the guy was a bit of a character just moving the limo out in front of traffic and driving a little erratically they were egging him on a bit. He then dropped his sandwich and proceeded to lean over into the footwell to pick it up whilst continuing to drive fast and kept turning around to talk to them.
He was told to keep his eyes on the road at this point as they weren't finding it quite as funny, anyway he continued to drive them to the venue and there was a red light (not just changed either) and the driver says 'red lights are for pussies' and just drove through the red light with traffic going either side of them. At this point everyone was getting worried as it was becoming quite dangerous.
They got to the conference and there was queues tailed back, so the driver decided to drive up the path, think it was a half a mile or more and people were having to quickly get out of the way. They ended up by the front door in about 5 minutes rather than 30- 40 minutes wait. |  | | |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:52 - Feb 13 with 1360 views | DanTheMan |
| Is the standard of driving getting worse? on 11:47 - Feb 13 by ITFC_Forever |
I go to Naples and the surrounding area quite often for work.
Driving is utterly lawless - but because of that, it works. Everyone knows the score, so no-one gets the hump with another driver.
And roundabouts are something else - if you're on the roundabout, there's no right of way for you, if anything, the done thing is to pull out on to it and merge in turn. |
Thankfully we only had to do one roundabout, one just outside of Naples airport, but as you say it was a case of just pulling out and hoping for the best as we realised that right of way wasn't really a thing.
My wife did most of the drive and I just spent the time looking between my fingers. I loved that when you joined a motorway you only had a few metres of road to get up to speed and you better hope that there is nothing in that lane when you join.
And then you hear about places where it's way worse like India where it's a free for all. | |
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