| Are you a true lefty? 10:35 - Jun 10 with 21010 views | DJR |
People often say on here that the forum is dominated by lefties (or pinkos as they were once disparagingly known).
This begs the question, what constitutes a lefty?
For my own part, I believe a true lefty in this country is someone who has never voted Tory or Liberal Democrat (or any of its former incarnations). And in every election since 1979, I have voted Labour, apart from in two local elections where there was no Labour candidate and I voted firstly for the Ecology Party and secondly for the Greens, both of which I would regard as left-leaning parties..
My hunch is that there is only a handful on TWTD like me, and it would be interesting to know who falls into the category, or if anyone else has their own definition of a lefty.
In all this, I am ignoring the fact that some people (myself included) might not regard the current Labour Party as truly left wing.
[Post edited 10 Jun 2024 13:02]
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| Are you a true lefty? on 14:33 - Jun 10 with 2818 views | mutters |
| Are you a true lefty? on 14:32 - Jun 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Yep. Far easier to blame foreigners for everything than address our demographic changes, or any of the other major issues, such as:
- growing inequality
- climate change
- lack of investment and crumbling services
- Brexit fallout
- why there's a record number of migrants globally
They would take hard work, consensus and prioritisation away from the things you need to do to get elected. The Tories turned governing into full time campaigning. It'll be interesting to see if Labour take the same approach or are prepared to do difficult stuff that may be unpopular. |
I blame the Anglo-Saxons, coming over here, taking our jobs.... |  |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 14:38 - Jun 10 with 2793 views | DJR |
| Are you a true lefty? on 14:27 - Jun 10 by mutters |
What was privatised under labour in the 70s? I've always thought that privatisation started under Thatchers post 79 with British Aerospace being one of the first ones? |
Sorry, I wasn't clear. By referring to "at the time" I meant the 80s. | | | |
| Are you a true lefty? on 14:41 - Jun 10 with 2771 views | CBMTOBWMMBG |
| Are you a true lefty? on 14:27 - Jun 10 by mutters |
What was privatised under labour in the 70s? I've always thought that privatisation started under Thatchers post 79 with British Aerospace being one of the first ones? |
Labour definitely started the process for privatising BP, and I think British Aerospace too - happy to be corrected.
Think they were more economic necessities rather than ideological though. |  | | |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:00 - Jun 10 with 2720 views | lowhouseblue |
| Are you a true lefty? on 14:41 - Jun 10 by CBMTOBWMMBG |
Labour definitely started the process for privatising BP, and I think British Aerospace too - happy to be corrected.
Think they were more economic necessities rather than ideological though. |
the sale of bp started in 1979 and the sale of bae started in 1981. in both cases the process started under thatcher. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 15:05 - Jun 10 with 2700 views | bluelagos |
| Are you a true lefty? on 14:41 - Jun 10 by CBMTOBWMMBG |
Labour definitely started the process for privatising BP, and I think British Aerospace too - happy to be corrected.
Think they were more economic necessities rather than ideological though. |
Twtd fact check needed on that one :-) |  |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 15:16 - Jun 10 with 2663 views | WeWereZombies |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:00 - Jun 10 by lowhouseblue |
the sale of bp started in 1979 and the sale of bae started in 1981. in both cases the process started under thatcher. |
Just for clarity:
'The British government sold 80 million shares of BP at $7.58 in 1979, as part of Thatcher-era privatisation. This sale represented slightly more than 5% of BP's total shares and reduced the government's ownership of the company to 46%' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP#1954_to_1979 So a partial sale of a state owned asset rather than a 'ground upwards' privatisation.
'Under the provisions of the British Aerospace Act 1980 (c. 26), on 1 January the statutory corporation was transferred to a limited company, which then re-registered as a public limited company (plc), under the name "British Aerospace Public Limited Company", on 2 January 1981. BAe was privatised in two main phases, the first in February 1981, involving 51.6% shares of the company,.. The second phase occurred in May 1985, in which 48.4% shares were sold' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Aerospace |  |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 15:27 - Jun 10 with 2641 views | BloomBlue |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:16 - Jun 10 by WeWereZombies |
Just for clarity:
'The British government sold 80 million shares of BP at $7.58 in 1979, as part of Thatcher-era privatisation. This sale represented slightly more than 5% of BP's total shares and reduced the government's ownership of the company to 46%' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP#1954_to_1979 So a partial sale of a state owned asset rather than a 'ground upwards' privatisation.
'Under the provisions of the British Aerospace Act 1980 (c. 26), on 1 January the statutory corporation was transferred to a limited company, which then re-registered as a public limited company (plc), under the name "British Aerospace Public Limited Company", on 2 January 1981. BAe was privatised in two main phases, the first in February 1981, involving 51.6% shares of the company,.. The second phase occurred in May 1985, in which 48.4% shares were sold' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Aerospace |
Callaghan started the sell-off of BP shares to reduce the public ownership in 1977, Thatcher implemented the process to turn it into a fully private company in 1979. But the public ownership sell-off of BP did start under Labour in 77, I remember it well because I bought some of the shares. Obviously we don't know whether Labour would have gone down the road of full privatisation in the same way as Thatcher, but they definitely started it. |  | | |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:30 - Jun 10 with 2636 views | bluelagos |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:27 - Jun 10 by BloomBlue |
Callaghan started the sell-off of BP shares to reduce the public ownership in 1977, Thatcher implemented the process to turn it into a fully private company in 1979. But the public ownership sell-off of BP did start under Labour in 77, I remember it well because I bought some of the shares. Obviously we don't know whether Labour would have gone down the road of full privatisation in the same way as Thatcher, but they definitely started it. |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 15:38 - Jun 10 with 2606 views | baxterbasics |
Would be interesting to have a discussion as what constitutes left wing or right wing these days. I doubt there'd be much agreement. |  |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 15:39 - Jun 10 with 2598 views | baxterbasics |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:27 - Jun 10 by BloomBlue |
Callaghan started the sell-off of BP shares to reduce the public ownership in 1977, Thatcher implemented the process to turn it into a fully private company in 1979. But the public ownership sell-off of BP did start under Labour in 77, I remember it well because I bought some of the shares. Obviously we don't know whether Labour would have gone down the road of full privatisation in the same way as Thatcher, but they definitely started it. |
Pretty sure they were also closers of mines and pits before The Lady made it an art form.
But happy to be corrected. | |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 15:47 - Jun 10 with 2553 views | bluelagos |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:38 - Jun 10 by baxterbasics |
Would be interesting to have a discussion as what constitutes left wing or right wing these days. I doubt there'd be much agreement. |
Libertarian or Authoritarian is also quite enlightening. Plenty of fellow left wingers on here who support authoritarian measures.
David Blunkett supporting ID cards would be one example from Labour, plenty of others. | |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 15:47 - Jun 10 with 2552 views | CBMTOBWMMBG |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:39 - Jun 10 by baxterbasics |
Pretty sure they were also closers of mines and pits before The Lady made it an art form.
But happy to be corrected. |
Way more pits were closed by the PMs before Thatcher. The coal industry was always changing (declining?) as new sources of energy became possible and more popular.
The difference was in how she did it. | | | |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:58 - Jun 10 with 2511 views | BloomBlue |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:39 - Jun 10 by baxterbasics |
Pretty sure they were also closers of mines and pits before The Lady made it an art form.
But happy to be corrected. |
Not 100% sure, but I'm 99.9% sure Wilson closed more coal mines than Thatcher.
That has always been one of the counter arguments, the miners unions accepted mine closures under Wilson and Callaghan, but refused any under Thatcher.
Now (and this is a big Now) how the agreements were reached ie financial, funding to local communities etc, in closing the mines probably varied between the governments.
But the miners striking had overthrown Ted Heath's government when Joe Gormley was Union leader, once Scargill started down the same road Thatcher wasn't interested in anything other than crushing them. | | | |
| Are you a true lefty? on 16:06 - Jun 10 with 2489 views | factual_blue |
| Are you a true lefty? on 11:56 - Jun 10 by victorywilhappen |
What sort of Marxist are you?
A public computer in the library type?
It's a big label to carry and live by. |
Tendance Groucho. |  |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 16:09 - Jun 10 with 2474 views | DJR |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:27 - Jun 10 by BloomBlue |
Callaghan started the sell-off of BP shares to reduce the public ownership in 1977, Thatcher implemented the process to turn it into a fully private company in 1979. But the public ownership sell-off of BP did start under Labour in 77, I remember it well because I bought some of the shares. Obviously we don't know whether Labour would have gone down the road of full privatisation in the same way as Thatcher, but they definitely started it. |
This is what the BP Global website says under the heading 1977.
"Following repeated attempts to nationalise BP, the British government sells 66 million of its shares –17% of its holding – in the company for £564m.
And this is what a New York Times article in 1977 said about it.
"The Government has held about 68 percent of B.P.'s stock and will still control 51 percent of the company after completion of the sale.
It announced last December that it would sell part of its B.P. holdings as part of the package to obtain a $3.9 billion standby credit from the International Monetary Fund."
Mrs Thatcher then took the holding below 50% in 1979 and the remaining stake was sold in 1987. [Post edited 11 Jun 2024 8:55]
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| Are you a true lefty? on 16:12 - Jun 10 with 2443 views | factual_blue |
| Are you a true lefty? on 14:41 - Jun 10 by CBMTOBWMMBG |
Labour definitely started the process for privatising BP, and I think British Aerospace too - happy to be corrected.
Think they were more economic necessities rather than ideological though. |
BP wasn't ever a nationalised industry. The govt held a large number of shares , primarily for strategic reasons (control of fuel supply etc). thatcher started selling them. | |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 16:13 - Jun 10 with 2441 views | DJR |
| Are you a true lefty? on 15:47 - Jun 10 by bluelagos |
Libertarian or Authoritarian is also quite enlightening. Plenty of fellow left wingers on here who support authoritarian measures.
David Blunkett supporting ID cards would be one example from Labour, plenty of others. |
I'm certainly no authoritarian, and would describe myself as a libertarian. | | | |
| Are you a true lefty? on 16:36 - Jun 10 with 2401 views | jayessess |
Yeah, very left wing from quite young. Passed through a few radical left groups (generally anarcho-syndicalist/anarcho-communist ones). Always recognised I was quite out there politically and never felt I influenced much in the world but got to defend the things you believe in, haven't you?
Most productively fed into little things - being an active trade unionist my whole life, joining local community food co-ops, bit of volunteering with tenants' rights groups and workers' rights groups. Least productively fed into arguing about it on the internet. |  |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 16:48 - Jun 10 with 2367 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Are you a true lefty? on 14:01 - Jun 10 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Do you mean economically left, or sociallly? Because there are plenty of socially conservative but economically left leaning voters (Harry10, the Red Wall. Isn’t that the circle that Corbyn failed to square, appealing to both metropolitan, liberal, Momentum-types, and the traditional more conservative, patriotic voters in the North of England. This is why Starmer has shifted to less overtly progressive policies.
I see myself as a centrist, I wonder how much our views are shaped by our employment. There’s undoubtedly a civil servant-heavy demographic on here vs the wider country. Surely anyone employed by the state is not going to vote Tory (turkey’s and Christmas..). Whereas those employed in the private sector, I suspect would be more likely to ‘float’ to whoever they see providing the best foundations for a strong economy. |
I don't think civil servants don't vote Tory because of the turkeys voting for Christmas angle – I think it's because they have more insight into how government and public services function and see for themselves on a daily basis that Tory policies don't work (and have to deal with the often disastrous consequences of them).
In the interests of balance, there are a few policies from the last Labour government that were also incredibly bad - PFI being one of them that is still impacting public services and will into the 2030s in some cases. |  | | |
| Are you a true lefty? on 16:49 - Jun 10 with 2356 views | DJR |
Interesting. I was going to describe myself as a left libertarian but realised that encompasses things like anarchism. Perhaps I would have been better to describe myself as a left wing person who is socially liberal. [Post edited 10 Jun 2024 17:49]
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| Are you a true lefty? on 16:52 - Jun 10 with 2348 views | GeoffSentence |
Your definition of "lefty" is ot the definition used by the people who complain about the domination of "lefties". They mean people who are to the left of them |  |
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| Are you a true lefty? on 17:48 - Jun 10 with 2271 views | monkeymagic |
I’m in the Judean People’s Front. | | | |
| Are you a true lefty? on 17:55 - Jun 10 with 2235 views | leitrimblue |
| Are you a true lefty? on 17:48 - Jun 10 by monkeymagic |
I’m in the Judean People’s Front. |
Spitter!
The People's Front of Judea |  | | |
| Are you a true lefty? on 17:57 - Jun 10 with 2234 views | positivity |
| Are you a true lefty? on 14:12 - Jun 10 by Pencilpete |
I don't believe in voting Conservative or Labour blindly every time ... i try and vote for whoever i think will do the best job.
This time i'm a bit stuck because the Conservatives have made an absolute pigs ear of everything so in my normal world i'd vote Labour but if i'm honest they arn't really offering anything either, if Starmer was a football manager he'd be Big Mick he just doesn't have the aura of a guy who is going to turn things around ..... Some of the things i've heard the Liberals and the greens say sound like they've borrowed policies off the monster raving looney party.
I never thought i'd hear myself say this but i might actually vote for Nigel Farage !! |
if starmer was mick, farage would be joey barton...
not mick's biggest fan, but i'd definitely vote for him over them | |
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