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People often say on here that the forum is dominated by lefties (or pinkos as they were once disparagingly known).
This begs the question, what constitutes a lefty?
For my own part, I believe a true lefty in this country is someone who has never voted Tory or Liberal Democrat (or any of its former incarnations). And in every election since 1979, I have voted Labour, apart from in two local elections where there was no Labour candidate and I voted firstly for the Ecology Party and secondly for the Greens, both of which I would regard as left-leaning parties..
My hunch is that there is only a handful on TWTD like me, and it would be interesting to know who falls into the category, or if anyone else has their own definition of a lefty.
In all this, I am ignoring the fact that some people (myself included) might not regard the current Labour Party as truly left wing.
[Post edited 10 Jun 2024 13:02]
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Are you a true lefty? on 18:10 - Jun 10 with 2769 views
If you read the Telegraph, some columnists accuse the Tory government of being too socialist these last 14 years. Hence the demand for what they call true Conservatism.
If you read the online Telegraph, the reader comments are like an alternate universe - the other day they were defending the Waffen SS!
Shout out to any fours, A wing, Norwich
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Are you a true lefty? on 18:15 - Jun 10 with 2747 views
Showing my age here ( in my eighth decade if it helps ), the RAF / Baader Meinhof group were my thing at the time. Am I too extreme to be a true lefty, or not a lefty at all as I've had to vote for parties to the right of the RAF?
Shout out to any fours, A wing, Norwich
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Are you a true lefty? on 18:48 - Jun 10 with 2690 views
Interesting. I was going to describe myself as a left libertarian but realised that encompasses things like anarchism. Perhaps I would have been better to describe myself as a left wing person who is socially liberal.
[Post edited 10 Jun 2024 17:49]
Only really in the last few decades that "libertarian" came to mean a sort of extreme ultra-capitalist. Pre-Second World War it's basically a synonym for anarchist. Some anarchists even used "libertarian communist" as a descriptor, which most people would regard a bit of an oxymoron these days.
Are you a true lefty? on 13:37 - Jun 10 by hype313
Haven't a clue to be honest, the lines are so blurred now can't see the wood through the trees.
Both parties are in a state of flux, not knowing which way to turn and completely void of any DNA, then we have the far right rising up here and across Europ,e which is a huge concern and cannot understand why the MSM give them so much airtime.
If this continues and we don't learn the lessons of the past, then I truly hope we get wiped out by an Asteroid and call it a day.
On that positive note....
You are the obsolete SRN4 to my Fairey Rotodyne....
Do you mean economically left, or sociallly? Because there are plenty of socially conservative but economically left leaning voters (Harry10, the Red Wall. Isn’t that the circle that Corbyn failed to square, appealing to both metropolitan, liberal, Momentum-types, and the traditional more conservative, patriotic voters in the North of England. This is why Starmer has shifted to less overtly progressive policies.
I see myself as a centrist, I wonder how much our views are shaped by our employment. There’s undoubtedly a civil servant-heavy demographic on here vs the wider country. Surely anyone employed by the state is not going to vote Tory (turkey’s and Christmas..). Whereas those employed in the private sector, I suspect would be more likely to ‘float’ to whoever they see providing the best foundations for a strong economy.
I think you are on to something here, possibly without realising it.
The reason why the left are so strong on here is because they are either civil servant type squares or lazy communists.
Everyone else is too busy bloody working for a living.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Haven't read through the whole thread, but I would describe myself as left of centre. However, I have voted Conservative in the past. That would be because my political views have changed over time.
I also hold a lot of views on things other than the economy that would be considered very much right of centre.
Are you a true lefty? on 14:06 - Jun 10 by DanTheMan
One of my biggest bugbears at the moment is that nobody wants to talk about some of the most serious issues causing things like high immigration for example.
We've got a demographic timebomb coming with an elderly population but all politicians are saying they'll bring immigration down (which is fine if that's what the country wants) but they don't talk about the very obvious issues that would cause unless we have another baby boom.
Think the IFS said over the weekend that neither big party are being honest with voters either about the horrible decisions that are going to have to happen because we're in so much of a mess.
If any party wants to introduce £500, 000 per capita payments to enable pensioners to resettle in the former British colony of their choice (and thus working towards net zero immigration), I'd probably give them my vote,
I think you are possibly correct in saying that there a probably only a handful of true lefties on TWTD.
However these are the ones that seem to dominate the board, and as a result it seems that there are many of you.
I'm no longer eligible to vote. If I did, I would never vote Labour. Under the circumstances that we find ourselves in, I would abstain from voting.
I'm certainly not as politically invested as some would appear to be on here. When one is eligible to vote in the UK, the only influence we have is that one vote that we can make. All the huffing and puffing in between seems rather pointless, because personally I was never affected by whichever party was in power!
A centrist government is what the majority in the UK seem to require. I hope that this will always be the case.
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Are you a true lefty? on 06:35 - Jun 11 with 2293 views
I think you are possibly correct in saying that there a probably only a handful of true lefties on TWTD.
However these are the ones that seem to dominate the board, and as a result it seems that there are many of you.
I'm no longer eligible to vote. If I did, I would never vote Labour. Under the circumstances that we find ourselves in, I would abstain from voting.
I'm certainly not as politically invested as some would appear to be on here. When one is eligible to vote in the UK, the only influence we have is that one vote that we can make. All the huffing and puffing in between seems rather pointless, because personally I was never affected by whichever party was in power!
A centrist government is what the majority in the UK seem to require. I hope that this will always be the case.
I always find it odd when those who claim to have no real interest in politics take a sneering tone towards those who do. Your line of political thought is a combination of I don't really care because I've always been doing alright but I'd never vote Labour even when they are the centrist option and I think the centrist option is the best one. You'll pardon me for not giving such a view all that much respect, there's little in the way of substance there. You are of course entitled to hold that opinion, just as I'm entitled to challenge it as lacking substance.
Sorry if that means I'm shouting loudest, it's just that for some of us politics does actually matter. Not everyone is privileged enough to be insulated against the negative consequences of having bad (usually Tory) governments and some of us would like to see a fairer society that treats everyone with dignity and respect. I know that some people find that uncomfortable or challenging or whatever but if you have no interest in politics, it's very easy to ignore politics threads if you get wound up by those who do take an interest in politics. Those threads tend to be titled things like "Are you a true lefty?".
Are you a true lefty? on 06:35 - Jun 11 by Herbivore
I always find it odd when those who claim to have no real interest in politics take a sneering tone towards those who do. Your line of political thought is a combination of I don't really care because I've always been doing alright but I'd never vote Labour even when they are the centrist option and I think the centrist option is the best one. You'll pardon me for not giving such a view all that much respect, there's little in the way of substance there. You are of course entitled to hold that opinion, just as I'm entitled to challenge it as lacking substance.
Sorry if that means I'm shouting loudest, it's just that for some of us politics does actually matter. Not everyone is privileged enough to be insulated against the negative consequences of having bad (usually Tory) governments and some of us would like to see a fairer society that treats everyone with dignity and respect. I know that some people find that uncomfortable or challenging or whatever but if you have no interest in politics, it's very easy to ignore politics threads if you get wound up by those who do take an interest in politics. Those threads tend to be titled things like "Are you a true lefty?".
I should let Zapers answer this but as a more general point a poster may not be doing alright if they are no longer entitled to vote, they might be in prison or sectioned and have had their entitlement to vote withdrawn by law (apologies if this is not the case, Zapers) and, as someone who believes that prisoners at least should have the vote, I can understand a degree of disenfranchised sniping in that case.
But your main rebuff of the post is good. It isn't just at the ballot box every four or five years that we have a little bit of power to change things. Political engagement gives us more power all the time, it lets our local and regional representatives know that a proportion of the populace is concerned about what they do and they adjust their behaviour accordingly. Even something minor like stating that you never buy from Sainsburys, Boots the chemists, Iceland and Asda (although those reprobates supply the cheapest diesel in the island I live on so I do buy from them) because they donate (or have in the past donated) to the Conservative party could crop up on their social media trawls and cause a slight ripple in their public relations departments (or those of Lidl, Aldi, Morrisons, the Co-op and Tesco - Tesco, who could have thought they would end up as the good guys, and make the smallest hope that they would never participate in such folly occur.)
So power to the people and, err, freedom for Tooting...
I've always tried to differentiate between political ideology and political parties - ever since I was in my early-20s and neither of my parents (both of whom were Conservative councillors in the mid 1980s) could articulate a good reason why they were voting Conservative in the 1997 General Election. The 'I've always voted Conservative' and 'You should have seen the state of the country under Labour in the 70s' didn't really cut it for me, so I spent time reading into different political ideologies to work out what best represented my view of the world.
I ultimately concluded that Social Liberalism best meets my own personal value set (left of centre on social policy and a mix of centre-left/centre-right on economic policy). Unfortunately, in most political regimes that are defined as left vs right then it's rare that a political party really aligns with this philosophy (probably only the first term and a half of Blair's Government and then the Orange Book Liberal Democrats came close in my lifetime - and both of those movements s**t the bed once they had any time in power).
As I've got older, I've found myself being pulled further left in my voting intentions because of the abhorrent social policies of the right-wing parties - but as someone who later in life has found myself working in the public sector I do hold the view that most, if not all, public services have become too bloated and bureaucratic - and are in desperate in need of reform...none more so than health system (both the NHS and also here in Australia).
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Are you a true lefty? on 08:45 - Jun 11 with 2217 views
Are you a true lefty? on 07:23 - Jun 11 by WeWereZombies
I should let Zapers answer this but as a more general point a poster may not be doing alright if they are no longer entitled to vote, they might be in prison or sectioned and have had their entitlement to vote withdrawn by law (apologies if this is not the case, Zapers) and, as someone who believes that prisoners at least should have the vote, I can understand a degree of disenfranchised sniping in that case.
But your main rebuff of the post is good. It isn't just at the ballot box every four or five years that we have a little bit of power to change things. Political engagement gives us more power all the time, it lets our local and regional representatives know that a proportion of the populace is concerned about what they do and they adjust their behaviour accordingly. Even something minor like stating that you never buy from Sainsburys, Boots the chemists, Iceland and Asda (although those reprobates supply the cheapest diesel in the island I live on so I do buy from them) because they donate (or have in the past donated) to the Conservative party could crop up on their social media trawls and cause a slight ripple in their public relations departments (or those of Lidl, Aldi, Morrisons, the Co-op and Tesco - Tesco, who could have thought they would end up as the good guys, and make the smallest hope that they would never participate in such folly occur.)
So power to the people and, err, freedom for Tooting...
I believe Zapers is an immigrant who no longer resides in England rather than being an ex-con.
“ And as regard those employed in the private sector, many it seems to me are tricked into voting for something that they think benefits them when in fact the current state of public services does not in fact benefit them at all. In other words, a cut in income tax may well trump everything, despite its effect on public services and the fact that it is mirrored by tax rises elsewhere (eg stealth taxes, and increases in VAT).”
Apologies if I was unclear - I didn’t mean vote based on fiscal policy. Rather which party would deliver the strongest economic growth, which tends to lead to a more mobile labour market, and therefore stronger pay growth for those employed in the private sector. Indeed a strong private sector is also beneficial to public services, given the greater tax base (albeit with the caveat that the spending and allocation of which is dependent on the governing party’s policy).
I suppose it could be said that it is difficult for the man in the street (or even economists) to know which party will offer the strongest growth.
No doubt many people voting for the Tories in 2010 and since thought that it would lead to greater growth but in fact the last 14 years have been the worst in terms of growth since WW2, and indeed a recent report indicated all of the growth was due to an increasing population caused by immigration.
And don't forget the self-inflicted own goals of things like the Barber and Truss budgets and Black Monday and the ensuing negative equity which lasted about 8 years.
Despite all this it is Labour who have the bad reputation on economic competence, reinforced as it is by the right wing media.
[Post edited 11 Jun 2024 9:04]
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Are you a true lefty? on 09:03 - Jun 11 with 2150 views
Are you a true lefty? on 07:23 - Jun 11 by WeWereZombies
I should let Zapers answer this but as a more general point a poster may not be doing alright if they are no longer entitled to vote, they might be in prison or sectioned and have had their entitlement to vote withdrawn by law (apologies if this is not the case, Zapers) and, as someone who believes that prisoners at least should have the vote, I can understand a degree of disenfranchised sniping in that case.
But your main rebuff of the post is good. It isn't just at the ballot box every four or five years that we have a little bit of power to change things. Political engagement gives us more power all the time, it lets our local and regional representatives know that a proportion of the populace is concerned about what they do and they adjust their behaviour accordingly. Even something minor like stating that you never buy from Sainsburys, Boots the chemists, Iceland and Asda (although those reprobates supply the cheapest diesel in the island I live on so I do buy from them) because they donate (or have in the past donated) to the Conservative party could crop up on their social media trawls and cause a slight ripple in their public relations departments (or those of Lidl, Aldi, Morrisons, the Co-op and Tesco - Tesco, who could have thought they would end up as the good guys, and make the smallest hope that they would never participate in such folly occur.)
So power to the people and, err, freedom for Tooting...
I'm with you Wolfie!
Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.
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Are you a true lefty? on 09:26 - Jun 11 with 2099 views
Are you a true lefty? on 08:52 - Jun 11 by Herbivore
I believe Zapers is an immigrant who no longer resides in England rather than being an ex-con.
[Post edited 11 Jun 2024 9:26]
He wouldn't have had a vote anyway, unless he took British citizenship, in which case he'd still have the vote.
My partner (born overseas) has lived in and paid taxes in the UK over 30 years, is possibly soon to get Farage as her MP and doesn't get to vote in the election.
Are you a true lefty? on 09:26 - Jun 11 by bluelagos
He wouldn't have had a vote anyway, unless he took British citizenship, in which case he'd still have the vote.
My partner (born overseas) has lived in and paid taxes in the UK over 30 years, is possibly soon to get Farage as her MP and doesn't get to vote in the election.
Bizarrely she does get a vote in local elections.
I think he's English but lives overseas, not an immigrant to the UK but one of those English immigrants that live overseas. I think he still has the right to vote in that case (unless he's been away over a certain period - 15 years maybe?) but maybe he can't be arsed, in which case you wonder why he bothers posting on politics threads really.
Are you a true lefty? on 09:28 - Jun 11 by Herbivore
I think he's English but lives overseas, not an immigrant to the UK but one of those English immigrants that live overseas. I think he still has the right to vote in that case (unless he's been away over a certain period - 15 years maybe?) but maybe he can't be arsed, in which case you wonder why he bothers posting on politics threads really.
So when I lived in Nigeria I voted in the first election I was away. By the time of the second election (05) I'd sold my UK house which made it a lot harder as I'd fallen off the electoral register.
Never entitled to vote in Nigerian elections but was happy for the time off, they used to lockdown all the streets so travelling to the office was banned. They'd spread it out over a few weeks (including voter registration days) so you'd probably get 3 or 4 days off, though Saturdays with no travel were a pain too.
Come election day proper we'd all be on holiday, not wanting to be around if it kicked off (which was a bit over cautious tbh)
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