| Riots in France tonight? 18:49 - Jul 7 with 7165 views | gtsb1966 |
Can see why from both sides. People not wanting a far right government and the far right angry because in many places, left or centrist candidates have withdrawn, to allow the anti-RN vote to be concentrated on one contender. This ain't going to end well. |  | | |  |
| Riots in France tonight? on 21:12 - Jul 7 with 2534 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Riots in France tonight? on 19:13 - Jul 7 by Mullet |
They won’t get a kick up the arse they’ll get a jack boot on their necks. How can you look at a party lead by the daughter of a man with links to Nazis and think that’s what Europe needs again? |
It’s already a big conspiracy of course as well
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| Riots in France tonight? on 21:15 - Jul 7 with 2516 views | DJR |
| Riots in France tonight? on 19:43 - Jul 7 by Swansea_Blue |
That’s still far too many fascists. They’ve got a much bigger problem with the far right than us and are probably a good country to learn from. |
I can't claim to be an expert on France but I do think that UKIP/the Brexit Party/Reform and the way the Tory Party has moved to the populist right in the light of them, as well as Brexit itself, have been the result of, and have accommodated, people who in France would vote for National Rally.
Indeed, it looked like Brexit (for which 52% voted) would quell what could be called right wing populism in this country, but the resurgence of Reform suggests it has not had this result. [Post edited 7 Jul 2024 21:24]
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| Riots in France tonight? on 22:35 - Jul 7 with 2422 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Riots in France tonight? on 19:16 - Jul 7 by DJR |
Interestingly it suggests France has moved slight to the left, but with the far right prominent, just like Britain.
I assume there will be a change of Prime Minister. [Post edited 7 Jul 2024 19:16]
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Mélenchon is equally as loathsome as Le Pen. History of anti semitic stereotypes. Anti German. Soft on Putin.
Macron has fcuked up big style. |  |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 00:25 - Jul 8 with 2349 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Riots in France tonight? on 22:35 - Jul 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Mélenchon is equally as loathsome as Le Pen. History of anti semitic stereotypes. Anti German. Soft on Putin.
Macron has fcuked up big style. |
Mélenchon is awful but the left wing bloc is not him and his party – it is an alliance of many left-wing parties, including the Socialist Party and the Greens. The latter two have more seats within the alliance than Mélenchon's party. |  | | |
| Riots in France tonight? on 06:52 - Jul 8 with 2251 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Riots in France tonight? on 22:35 - Jul 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Mélenchon is equally as loathsome as Le Pen. History of anti semitic stereotypes. Anti German. Soft on Putin.
Macron has fcuked up big style. |
“ The firebrand is toxic to many frontline politicians, with his fascination for Latin American strongmen, his temper tantrums and his vicious attacks on opponents. Most recently, critics accused him of flirting with antisemitism when he appeared to downplay attacks against Jews in France.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-election-national-assembly-voters-marine-
Sounds like someone who alongside Le Pen should also be nowhere near politics. Whilst the rejection of the RN should be celebrated, the heavy losses of Macron’s centrists will most likely be bad news for Ukraine (with many on the French left being opposed to providing weapons). |  | | |
| Riots in France tonight? on 07:28 - Jul 8 with 2229 views | DinDjarin |
| Riots in France tonight? on 19:40 - Jul 7 by J2BLUE |
Now we just need Biden to have the 4 months of his life. |
Guess you don't follow US politics and the hearing going on bout the big guy and his dealings with China and Russia. |  | | |
| Riots in France tonight? on 07:40 - Jul 8 with 2191 views | DJR |
| Riots in France tonight? on 00:25 - Jul 8 by Clapham_Junction |
Mélenchon is awful but the left wing bloc is not him and his party – it is an alliance of many left-wing parties, including the Socialist Party and the Greens. The latter two have more seats within the alliance than Mélenchon's party. |
Melanchon is apparently not that popular in his party anyway, so I can't see him becoming PM. And the left will presumably have to go into coalition with the centrists.
It is also to be noted that Francois Hollande has made a comeback for the socialist party. [Post edited 8 Jul 2024 7:58]
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| Riots in France tonight? on 07:44 - Jul 8 with 2179 views | DJR |
| Riots in France tonight? on 06:52 - Jul 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“ The firebrand is toxic to many frontline politicians, with his fascination for Latin American strongmen, his temper tantrums and his vicious attacks on opponents. Most recently, critics accused him of flirting with antisemitism when he appeared to downplay attacks against Jews in France.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-election-national-assembly-voters-marine-
Sounds like someone who alongside Le Pen should also be nowhere near politics. Whilst the rejection of the RN should be celebrated, the heavy losses of Macron’s centrists will most likely be bad news for Ukraine (with many on the French left being opposed to providing weapons). |
This fails to take into account the powers of the President.
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220211-explainer-what-does-a-french-preside
France has features of both presidential and parliamentary systems of government. But it is clear which player enjoys the broadest powers. "French presidents have more power than the leaders of most other advanced democracies including Germany, the United Kingdom and, arguably, the United States," the New York-based Council on Foreign Relations explained in 2017. "They not only command the executive apparatus, including the armed forces, but tend to drive the national policymaking agenda with little parliamentary oversight," it added.
Although the French Constitution, the founding text of the Fifth Republic adopted in 1958, assigns defence and diplomacy to the prime minister and the president as shared responsibilities, both areas have in practice become the preserve of France's head of state. The latter is the constitutional guarantor of the nation's independence and its territorial integrity. As commander-in-chief of the armed forces, the president chairs the national defence councils and special committees that define France's line on military programming, deterrence, the conduct of foreign operations and counterterrorism. The French president can alone take the decision to deploy nuclear force.
A French president cannot, however, declare war on his own. The Constitution stipulates that a "declaration of war is authorised by the parliament", although that provision has yet to be applied since France's guiding text was adopted in 1958. The president does, however, have the power to deploy the armed forces abroad without informing the parliament in advance. The government then has three days to inform the legislative body of the operation, at which point lawmakers can hold a debate on the deployment but not a vote. Parliament does pronounce on whether or not a deployment can be extended beyond four months.
France's president also helms the country's diplomacy. He meets with foreign heads of state and ensures France's representation abroad, in foreign countries and at international institutions. The president also negotiates and ratifies treaties in France's name and is the guarantor of the country's treaty obligations. He is also empowered to name and accredit French ambassadors abroad. | | | |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 08:01 - Jul 8 with 2136 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Riots in France tonight? on 07:44 - Jul 8 by DJR |
This fails to take into account the powers of the President.
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220211-explainer-what-does-a-french-preside
France has features of both presidential and parliamentary systems of government. But it is clear which player enjoys the broadest powers. "French presidents have more power than the leaders of most other advanced democracies including Germany, the United Kingdom and, arguably, the United States," the New York-based Council on Foreign Relations explained in 2017. "They not only command the executive apparatus, including the armed forces, but tend to drive the national policymaking agenda with little parliamentary oversight," it added.
Although the French Constitution, the founding text of the Fifth Republic adopted in 1958, assigns defence and diplomacy to the prime minister and the president as shared responsibilities, both areas have in practice become the preserve of France's head of state. The latter is the constitutional guarantor of the nation's independence and its territorial integrity. As commander-in-chief of the armed forces, the president chairs the national defence councils and special committees that define France's line on military programming, deterrence, the conduct of foreign operations and counterterrorism. The French president can alone take the decision to deploy nuclear force.
A French president cannot, however, declare war on his own. The Constitution stipulates that a "declaration of war is authorised by the parliament", although that provision has yet to be applied since France's guiding text was adopted in 1958. The president does, however, have the power to deploy the armed forces abroad without informing the parliament in advance. The government then has three days to inform the legislative body of the operation, at which point lawmakers can hold a debate on the deployment but not a vote. Parliament does pronounce on whether or not a deployment can be extended beyond four months.
France's president also helms the country's diplomacy. He meets with foreign heads of state and ensures France's representation abroad, in foreign countries and at international institutions. The president also negotiates and ratifies treaties in France's name and is the guarantor of the country's treaty obligations. He is also empowered to name and accredit French ambassadors abroad. |
We will see what transpires, but presumably they can simply block the funding even if Macron can push through the legal side. Analysts are expecting a period now of political paralysis in France, with the EUR expected to weaken versus further the dollar, and French borrowing costs to rise (further deteriorations are expected to French public finances). | | | |
| Riots in France tonight? on 08:05 - Jul 8 with 2126 views | BlueRaider |
| Riots in France tonight? on 19:04 - Jul 7 by DJR |
National Rally in third place according to exit poll.
That is great news from my point of view. |
Indeed, great news
They need to look at why so many voted for RN though, and address those concerns which are legitimate, this is the only way ultimately to defeat them | |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 08:17 - Jul 8 with 2099 views | DJR |
| Riots in France tonight? on 08:01 - Jul 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
We will see what transpires, but presumably they can simply block the funding even if Macron can push through the legal side. Analysts are expecting a period now of political paralysis in France, with the EUR expected to weaken versus further the dollar, and French borrowing costs to rise (further deteriorations are expected to French public finances). |
This is the policy of the NPF on Ukraine, according to this article, so difficult to see what you suggest happening, assuming it is even possible.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/06/25/where-does-the-french-left-stand-o
On the international stage, the New Popular Front asserts that it wants to "defend Ukraine and peace on the European continent."
"The delivery of necessary weapons", "the cancellation of Ukraine's foreign debt", "the seizure of the assets of oligarchs who contribute to the Russian war effort" and the "sending of peacekeepers to secure nuclear power plants" are among the measures outlined. [Post edited 8 Jul 2024 8:30]
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| Riots in France tonight? on 08:35 - Jul 8 with 2050 views | DJR |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 09:11 - Jul 8 with 1997 views | ElephantintheRoom |
If you park away the hype fewer people voted for the mythical hard right in France than in the UK. If you wake up to the fact that Conservative Lite (Labour) are more to the right than Le Pen’s crew then France has made a lurch to the far left and slightly right of centre.
The one interesting thing about the result is there is no obvious leader of the coalesced cabal of left wing parties that form the new majority. That will probably suit Macron too with the Olympics hoving into view | |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 09:21 - Jul 8 with 1988 views | baxterbasics |
Everyone's slapping each other on the back having kept one extreme out... only to give the other side a foot in the door. They may come to regret this.
Now they face a lengthy period of uncertainty trying to negotiate a government. Whatever it ends up looking like I don't expect it will do much to address the reasons so many were prepared to vote for Le Pen. |  |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 09:22 - Jul 8 with 1982 views | DJR |
| Riots in France tonight? on 09:11 - Jul 8 by ElephantintheRoom |
If you park away the hype fewer people voted for the mythical hard right in France than in the UK. If you wake up to the fact that Conservative Lite (Labour) are more to the right than Le Pen’s crew then France has made a lurch to the far left and slightly right of centre.
The one interesting thing about the result is there is no obvious leader of the coalesced cabal of left wing parties that form the new majority. That will probably suit Macron too with the Olympics hoving into view |
Interesting comment from the Green leader.
Asked if the next prime minister could come from civil society rather than a political party, the Ecologists’ Marine Tondelier did not reject the idea, noting that civil society played a role in blocking the far right. | | | |
| Riots in France tonight? on 09:45 - Jul 8 with 1946 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Riots in France tonight? on 08:17 - Jul 8 by DJR |
This is the policy of the NPF on Ukraine, according to this article, so difficult to see what you suggest happening, assuming it is even possible.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/06/25/where-does-the-french-left-stand-o
On the international stage, the New Popular Front asserts that it wants to "defend Ukraine and peace on the European continent."
"The delivery of necessary weapons", "the cancellation of Ukraine's foreign debt", "the seizure of the assets of oligarchs who contribute to the Russian war effort" and the "sending of peacekeepers to secure nuclear power plants" are among the measures outlined. [Post edited 8 Jul 2024 8:30]
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Interesting that they are much more bullish than our own (harder left) on Ukraine, though I suspect there will be some opposition to it from within the leftist coalition. The point regarding cancelling Ukraine’s foreign debt is an important. I doubt it will gain much international traction, but I expect a restructuring will be agreed before any default:-
https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-imf-default-days-1920018
Western investors are still pushing ahead with financing in Western Ukraine, providing vital trade finance for Ukraine to keep itself supplied with gas and other commodities. In the Eastern occupied regions, the Russians have requisitioned many of Ukraine’s (and those owned by investors in the West) assets, but whatever little ground they are gaining now, the general consensus is there’s little risk of this happening west of the DnIpro. | | | |
| Riots in France tonight? on 09:48 - Jul 8 with 1942 views | BlueBadger |
| Riots in France tonight? on 20:14 - Jul 7 by RIPbobby |
Is that so? Sounds like a whole melting pot of opinions. I guess that is what a democracy is. |
A majority of people didn't want nazis in charge. Cry harder. |  |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 09:53 - Jul 8 with 1924 views | Pinewoodblue |
We should just be thankful that we don’t use the same electoral system as the French.
If we did we would be voting again on Thursday only those who received over 50% of the votes cast being already elected. Anyone polling less than 12.5% would be ineligible to stand. At national , and local, levels there would be much horse trading with candidates standing down in favour of someone more likely to beat the candidate they least wanted to win.
We would be in a knife edge, could even have been heading for a coalition between Tories & Reform with Reform having perhaps 100 MPs. |  |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 10:05 - Jul 8 with 1865 views | DJR |
| Riots in France tonight? on 09:45 - Jul 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Interesting that they are much more bullish than our own (harder left) on Ukraine, though I suspect there will be some opposition to it from within the leftist coalition. The point regarding cancelling Ukraine’s foreign debt is an important. I doubt it will gain much international traction, but I expect a restructuring will be agreed before any default:-
https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-imf-default-days-1920018
Western investors are still pushing ahead with financing in Western Ukraine, providing vital trade finance for Ukraine to keep itself supplied with gas and other commodities. In the Eastern occupied regions, the Russians have requisitioned many of Ukraine’s (and those owned by investors in the West) assets, but whatever little ground they are gaining now, the general consensus is there’s little risk of this happening west of the DnIpro. |
I assume it is because France, along with Germany, is at heart of the philosophy behind what became the EU, and knows to its cost the effects of being occupied.
As it is, I am not aware of any left-leaning party in the EU which is anything other than supportive of Ukraine.
And even the 2019 Labour manifesto was maybe not what it was made out to be when it comes to defence.
Defence and security
Increase funding for UN peacekeeping operations to £100m.
Maintain our commitment to NATO and close relationship with European partners.
Support the renewal of Trident.
Lead multilateral efforts to create a nuclear-free world.
Spend at least 2% of GDP on defence.
Scrap the public sector pay cap, which resulted in a real-terms pay cut for the armed forces.
Ensure decent housing for forces members and their families.
Guarantee better access for all forces children to good quality local schools.
Consult on creating a representative body for the armed forces, akin to the Police Federation. (Full story here.)
Pay a lump sum of £50,000 to each surviving British nuclear-test veteran.
Ensure that black and Asian soldiers who fought in Britain’s colonial armies receive a full apology and look at ways to compensate them for the discriminatory demob payments they received compared to their white counterparts.
Procurement that supports UK defence manufacturing including aerospace and shipbuilding.
Publish a defence industrial strategy white paper.
Create a climate sustainability committee within the Ministry of Defence.
Publish a strategy to accelerate the safe and sustainable recycling of our old nuclear submarines. [Post edited 8 Jul 2024 10:07]
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| Riots in France tonight? on 10:49 - Jul 8 with 1775 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Riots in France tonight? on 10:05 - Jul 8 by DJR |
I assume it is because France, along with Germany, is at heart of the philosophy behind what became the EU, and knows to its cost the effects of being occupied.
As it is, I am not aware of any left-leaning party in the EU which is anything other than supportive of Ukraine.
And even the 2019 Labour manifesto was maybe not what it was made out to be when it comes to defence.
Defence and security
Increase funding for UN peacekeeping operations to £100m.
Maintain our commitment to NATO and close relationship with European partners.
Support the renewal of Trident.
Lead multilateral efforts to create a nuclear-free world.
Spend at least 2% of GDP on defence.
Scrap the public sector pay cap, which resulted in a real-terms pay cut for the armed forces.
Ensure decent housing for forces members and their families.
Guarantee better access for all forces children to good quality local schools.
Consult on creating a representative body for the armed forces, akin to the Police Federation. (Full story here.)
Pay a lump sum of £50,000 to each surviving British nuclear-test veteran.
Ensure that black and Asian soldiers who fought in Britain’s colonial armies receive a full apology and look at ways to compensate them for the discriminatory demob payments they received compared to their white counterparts.
Procurement that supports UK defence manufacturing including aerospace and shipbuilding.
Publish a defence industrial strategy white paper.
Create a climate sustainability committee within the Ministry of Defence.
Publish a strategy to accelerate the safe and sustainable recycling of our old nuclear submarines. [Post edited 8 Jul 2024 10:07]
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There are many parties on the hard left who’ve opposed arms to Ukraine - it’s where the foreign policy of the likes of Corbyn and Farage collide (albeit for different reasons). In Germany the hard left even wanted to restart gas imports from Russia because their bills went up a bit.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/05/ukraine-is-a-dividing-line
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-sto | | | |
| Riots in France tonight? on 14:20 - Jul 8 with 1647 views | DJR |
Well done for spotting that, although I did couch my post in terms of my awareness.
Perhaps I should have said mainstream parties of the left, but no doubt you will manage to find such a party!
As it is, I don't see the threat to Western democracies these days coming from the left, whatever individuals and smaller parties on the left may say. [Post edited 8 Jul 2024 14:25]
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| Riots in France tonight? on 14:59 - Jul 8 with 1606 views | Mullet |
| Riots in France tonight? on 21:12 - Jul 7 by ElderGrizzly |
It’s already a big conspiracy of course as well
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What a crybaby nutjob |  |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 15:21 - Jul 8 with 1571 views | GlasgowBlue |
The far left rioted when they lost in the first round and they were rioting last night after winning the second round. | |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 16:05 - Jul 8 with 1509 views | baxterbasics |
| Riots in France tonight? on 15:21 - Jul 8 by GlasgowBlue |
The far left rioted when they lost in the first round and they were rioting last night after winning the second round. |
All just seems more dangerous in France now. Can see them descending into major civil unrest. | |
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| Riots in France tonight? on 16:35 - Jul 8 with 1470 views | Radlett_blue |
| Riots in France tonight? on 09:53 - Jul 8 by Pinewoodblue |
We should just be thankful that we don’t use the same electoral system as the French.
If we did we would be voting again on Thursday only those who received over 50% of the votes cast being already elected. Anyone polling less than 12.5% would be ineligible to stand. At national , and local, levels there would be much horse trading with candidates standing down in favour of someone more likely to beat the candidate they least wanted to win.
We would be in a knife edge, could even have been heading for a coalition between Tories & Reform with Reform having perhaps 100 MPs. |
There's been a lot of talk about PR & our electoral system after last week's Election, although predictably most of the talk has come from disgruntled Conservative/Reform voters. The French system seems worse (as it's not proper PR) but it is designed to try to produce an effective government, which PR frequently does not (see Italy). Of course, the French do have a separate President with broad executive power, but the UK has a form of elective dictatorship, with the Head of State a mere puppet. |  |
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