| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:28 - Jul 9 with 3400 views | itfcjoe |
What other options are there if prisons are literally full? Need to build more but takes time and no one wants one built near them.
This thing been going on for years rather than build we've just sent fewer and fewer people there, and then let them out earlier |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:35 - Jul 9 with 3327 views | DanTheMan |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:28 - Jul 9 by itfcjoe |
What other options are there if prisons are literally full? Need to build more but takes time and no one wants one built near them.
This thing been going on for years rather than build we've just sent fewer and fewer people there, and then let them out earlier |
It is compounded by the knee-jerk reaction to everything being "longer sentences".
We've got the most prisoners per capita out of most (all?) Western European countries as well.
EDIT:
To expand a bit, my uneducated guess would be that we do nothing to solve the root issues of why these people are in prison (drug addictions, mental health issues etc.), people go to prison and then get released back into the same scenario and shockingly they end up going back to prison within a year.
Obviously not all criminals have these kinds of issues, they might just be bad people, but I imagine quite a few do. [Post edited 9 Jul 2024 8:41]
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:37 - Jul 9 with 3291 views | Cotty |
This is just one of many unflushable turds that the Tories left swirling in the pan. One suspects that it was knowing that things like this were just around the corner that led to Sunak’s suicidal decision to go to the electorate when he did. |  | | |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:39 - Jul 9 with 3261 views | blueasfook |
It's OK, James Timpson will give them all jobs cutting keys |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:40 - Jul 9 with 3244 views | unbelievablue |
Prisons full, so in the short term you either:
1. Don't send new criminals to prison
2. Release some low risk prisoners who've served over a certain % of their sentence and who, in some cases, one could reliably argue shouldn't be serving custodial sentences anyway
Medium and long term reform obviously needed but the immediate need is critical and I don't see any other option really. |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:42 - Jul 9 with 3179 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
'His decision to appoint James Timpson, the businessman and rehabilitation campaigner, as the new prisons minister has been hailed by prison reform experts. More than 10% of Timpson’s workforce are former prisoners, and Timpson has previously argued that only a third of people in prison should really be there.
While Starmer stood by his appointment of Timpson, he steered clear of endorsing that view, though he said he wanted early intervention to stop young boys in particular from getting on the “escalator” of a life of knife crime and going to prison numerous times.'
....hopefully they won't be put off by easy knee jerk, gutter press type responses such as yours. |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:45 - Jul 9 with 3116 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:39 - Jul 9 by blueasfook |
It's OK, James Timpson will give them all jobs cutting keys |
Take care that your cruciate ligament doesn't go, you put a lot of strain on it! | |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:46 - Jul 9 with 3114 views | Keno |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:39 - Jul 9 by blueasfook |
It's OK, James Timpson will give them all jobs cutting keys |
in fairness they don't need them, most of them can just pick the locks anyway |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:47 - Jul 9 with 3070 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:46 - Jul 9 by Keno |
in fairness they don't need them, most of them can just pick the locks anyway |
Yes, that's because they've all worked in Timpson's at some point! |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:47 - Jul 9 with 3082 views | blueasfook |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:46 - Jul 9 by Keno |
in fairness they don't need them, most of them can just pick the locks anyway |
To be fair, I like what James Timpson does. Not many companies are willing to give ex cons a chance. And mostly it works well I think. | |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:48 - Jul 9 with 3067 views | textbackup |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:40 - Jul 9 by unbelievablue |
Prisons full, so in the short term you either:
1. Don't send new criminals to prison
2. Release some low risk prisoners who've served over a certain % of their sentence and who, in some cases, one could reliably argue shouldn't be serving custodial sentences anyway
Medium and long term reform obviously needed but the immediate need is critical and I don't see any other option really. |
I’m sure there are many in there that shouldn’t be.
But it’s the victims of those that DO deserve to be there that I’d feel for.
I’ve no political side, but can see it’s got under the skin of those that do.
My thoughts were purely around the victims, as mentioned |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:48 - Jul 9 with 3036 views | textbackup |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:42 - Jul 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
'His decision to appoint James Timpson, the businessman and rehabilitation campaigner, as the new prisons minister has been hailed by prison reform experts. More than 10% of Timpson’s workforce are former prisoners, and Timpson has previously argued that only a third of people in prison should really be there.
While Starmer stood by his appointment of Timpson, he steered clear of endorsing that view, though he said he wanted early intervention to stop young boys in particular from getting on the “escalator” of a life of knife crime and going to prison numerous times.'
....hopefully they won't be put off by easy knee jerk, gutter press type responses such as yours. |
Sorry Keir, didn’t mean to rattle your cage so early in the day | |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:51 - Jul 9 with 2960 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:48 - Jul 9 by textbackup |
Sorry Keir, didn’t mean to rattle your cage so early in the day |
In your dreams Texters. | |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:51 - Jul 9 with 2966 views | Zx1988 |
Given that at least a third of those locked up shouldn't even be there, it's a step in the right direction (although it's more a case of hands being forced, rather than a volte face on criminal justice).
Locking up minor offenders does nothing to solve the root cause of the problem and, more often than not, just locks in the cycle of offending.
I'm an established professional in a more than decent job, but I'm under no illusions that if I were to end up convicted of a fairly minor offence and incarcerated for even the shortest period of time, that would be life as I know it out of the window for the rest of my life. |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:51 - Jul 9 with 2962 views | unbelievablue |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:48 - Jul 9 by textbackup |
I’m sure there are many in there that shouldn’t be.
But it’s the victims of those that DO deserve to be there that I’d feel for.
I’ve no political side, but can see it’s got under the skin of those that do.
My thoughts were purely around the victims, as mentioned |
Understandable but not a solution to a real problem.
Plenty of people inside are there for more 'victimless' crimes. Hopefully that is what would be focused on. | |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:58 - Jul 9 with 2822 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
The Tory mantra has always been 'tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime", but its a load of flannel isn't it?
They cut police numbers by 21,000 and then ten years later, increased them again by 20,000, which is not an increase. People drive how they want, act as anti-socially as they want and do what they want, because who is going to stop them?
Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime, but since 2010 we have closed 20 prisons, and until 2019 only had plans for 3,500 extra spaces. If prisons are full, then we need to prioritise prison space for those who should be there. Should low level offenders, for example, shop lifters, be there? Should fine dodgers be there? Should Council Tax avoiders be there?.
Labour needs to correct the mistakes of the previous government and replace the 20 closed prisons, its literally that simple. |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 09:03 - Jul 9 with 2758 views | textbackup |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:51 - Jul 9 by unbelievablue |
Understandable but not a solution to a real problem.
Plenty of people inside are there for more 'victimless' crimes. Hopefully that is what would be focused on. |
I might be mad here, but doesn’t every crime have a victim of some description? (Even if only sky if someone has a firestick!)
*edit - I’m guessing that’s what you mean | |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 09:04 - Jul 9 with 2754 views | Zx1988 |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:58 - Jul 9 by Cheltenham_Blue |
The Tory mantra has always been 'tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime", but its a load of flannel isn't it?
They cut police numbers by 21,000 and then ten years later, increased them again by 20,000, which is not an increase. People drive how they want, act as anti-socially as they want and do what they want, because who is going to stop them?
Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime, but since 2010 we have closed 20 prisons, and until 2019 only had plans for 3,500 extra spaces. If prisons are full, then we need to prioritise prison space for those who should be there. Should low level offenders, for example, shop lifters, be there? Should fine dodgers be there? Should Council Tax avoiders be there?.
Labour needs to correct the mistakes of the previous government and replace the 20 closed prisons, its literally that simple. |
Therein lies the bigger question, I feel.
If we were to properly reassess sentencing guidelines, with a view to only incarcerating those who actually need to be locked away, would we need to build any additional prison spaces at all?
The Netherlands is a case in point - closing prisons because they now have too much prison space. | |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 09:12 - Jul 9 with 2623 views | Basuco |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:48 - Jul 9 by textbackup |
Sorry Keir, didn’t mean to rattle your cage so early in the day |
The company I work for is a major supplier to Timpsons, we see in many ways how he helps in the rehabilitation of prisoners, I suppose if you think about the tv sitcom Porridge, he is Barrowclough, he is focused on reducing reoffending, rather than lock them up, throw away the key and never allow them work ever again.
It is a different way of thinking, when I was a contractor going into High Point prison in Suffolk in the 80's/90's, an escort guard told me up to 50% of inmates had mental health issues, so with that and those who take a wrong turn in life, end up inside and decide they do not want to go back in, a month in prison can be enough. This is not for hardened criminals, this is to rehabilitate to get people to stay out of the prison system and get their life back on track. |  | | |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 09:14 - Jul 9 with 2563 views | SitfcB |
They all want to go to Wandsworth! |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 09:18 - Jul 9 with 2516 views | baxterbasics |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 08:58 - Jul 9 by Cheltenham_Blue |
The Tory mantra has always been 'tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime", but its a load of flannel isn't it?
They cut police numbers by 21,000 and then ten years later, increased them again by 20,000, which is not an increase. People drive how they want, act as anti-socially as they want and do what they want, because who is going to stop them?
Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime, but since 2010 we have closed 20 prisons, and until 2019 only had plans for 3,500 extra spaces. If prisons are full, then we need to prioritise prison space for those who should be there. Should low level offenders, for example, shop lifters, be there? Should fine dodgers be there? Should Council Tax avoiders be there?.
Labour needs to correct the mistakes of the previous government and replace the 20 closed prisons, its literally that simple. |
"tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" - this was Blair's mantra, no? |  |
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 09:22 - Jul 9 with 2514 views | JohnTy |
..and here a thorough analysis of our prisons. A complex picture, but fairly clear that England and Wales have highest imprisonment rate in Western Europe, prison population has increased by 80% in 30 years, over 60% are in prison for non-violent crime.
https://prisonreformtrust.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/prison_the_facts_202
Rory Stewart's "Politics on the Edge" is also worth reading - one of a tiny number in Parliament who was interested in the problem and tried to do something about it during the Tory years.
It does look as if we now have grown ups back in charge. Let us hope they are not derailed by the right wing press. [Post edited 9 Jul 2024 9:39]
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| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 09:41 - Jul 9 with 2365 views | unbelievablue |
| That’ll send a really good message to criminals on 09:03 - Jul 9 by textbackup |
I might be mad here, but doesn’t every crime have a victim of some description? (Even if only sky if someone has a firestick!)
*edit - I’m guessing that’s what you mean |
Yeah basically what I'm getting at is I doubt (hope) early release wouldn't be for someone assaulted, raped, stolen from, defrauded etc. - rather, it would be some kind of white collar crime, or petty drugs thing. | |
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