| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. 17:46 - Jul 18 with 15005 views | Mercian |
So they jail five environment protestors for 4 and 5 years for a protest that disrupted motorway traffic. Rapists, violent muggers and those who commit GBH with intent get shorter sentences. Way to go.
[Post edited 18 Jul 2024 17:56]
|  | | |  |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 07:40 - Jul 20 with 1156 views | WeWereZombies |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 21:41 - Jul 19 by tcblue |
Yeah I'd like to hear these options, too.
How does JSO / other climate campaigners get the attention of the press and the public? Hint: previous governments have done the square root of FA. At least these Draconian sentences are putting climate change in the news, I guess |
I was watching an interview with Lewis Pugh last night, not heard of him ? He is an endurance swimmer who has swum under the North Pole, below the Ross ice shelf in the Antarctic and the entire length of the Hudson river to highlight areas where a changing climate is having a dramatic effect. A very calm individual who bats away all the usual journalistic accusations with a very clear focus on how severe our environmental disaster is. He makes a very good case for understanding that we are already at 1.3 degrees of the one and a half limit some thought we had set ourselves as achievable. That the two degrees maximum rise is looking doubtful and that 2.7 is the likely outcome if we carry on as we are even with the efforts we think we are making to put things right.
However he has made at least one significant change with his extreme and life threatening endeavours. His Ross ice shelf swim was to highlight the need for international cooperation on legally conserving that part of Antarctica, an agreement that the United States and New Zealand were already committed to, but one other nation was not. The swim got Pugh to the Kremlin to discuss the creation of a Marine Reserve with Sergey Shoygu (now Russian defence minister) and the agreement was reached. Such things do make the news but not to the same extent that Just Stop Oil have achieved. Nevertheless I would judge Pugh's achievement as more significant and more worthy of 'top of the news' publicity, perhaps something we should remember before we click on the latest piece of clickbait or engage in increasingly brittle threads on a forum.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32053751 |  |
| |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 08:01 - Jul 20 with 1125 views | tcblue |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 07:40 - Jul 20 by WeWereZombies |
I was watching an interview with Lewis Pugh last night, not heard of him ? He is an endurance swimmer who has swum under the North Pole, below the Ross ice shelf in the Antarctic and the entire length of the Hudson river to highlight areas where a changing climate is having a dramatic effect. A very calm individual who bats away all the usual journalistic accusations with a very clear focus on how severe our environmental disaster is. He makes a very good case for understanding that we are already at 1.3 degrees of the one and a half limit some thought we had set ourselves as achievable. That the two degrees maximum rise is looking doubtful and that 2.7 is the likely outcome if we carry on as we are even with the efforts we think we are making to put things right.
However he has made at least one significant change with his extreme and life threatening endeavours. His Ross ice shelf swim was to highlight the need for international cooperation on legally conserving that part of Antarctica, an agreement that the United States and New Zealand were already committed to, but one other nation was not. The swim got Pugh to the Kremlin to discuss the creation of a Marine Reserve with Sergey Shoygu (now Russian defence minister) and the agreement was reached. Such things do make the news but not to the same extent that Just Stop Oil have achieved. Nevertheless I would judge Pugh's achievement as more significant and more worthy of 'top of the news' publicity, perhaps something we should remember before we click on the latest piece of clickbait or engage in increasingly brittle threads on a forum.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32053751 |
I agree and yes I have heard of Lewis, but the top of the news item is what this thread is about... |  | | |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 09:19 - Jul 20 with 1082 views | WeWereZombies |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 08:01 - Jul 20 by tcblue |
I agree and yes I have heard of Lewis, but the top of the news item is what this thread is about... |
True but we have had a few deflections along the way and I felt this was a good way of highlighting what else can be done apart from gluing yourself to a motorway, but also that more sensible efforts (even when they do produce a dramatic result in the way Pugh's has done) get overlooked. Ultimately we all have to change the way we live but it seems that some will use any old excuse not to do so and the effective way to communicate with them has yet to be found. | |
| |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 09:42 - Jul 20 with 1056 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 22:25 - Jul 19 by tcblue |
Actually, I do think it has had a positive impact on climate change awareness.
It's in the news. We are aware. Sad that it comes to it, but there it is.
You think climate change activists don't do those things you suggest? Spoiler: they do (including JSO). Why do you think you've not heard of them doing that? |
Well I'm a member of a business forum in my local town and we have had not contact with any organisation with that regards. We launch our own green initiatives and encourage local businesses to be more environmentally conscious. Perhaps local authorities are loathed to engage with the same people who are causing so much disruption.
I think Sky News initiatives like th e Sky News Ocean rescue brought far more awareness of the issues we face. Likewise, David Attenborough, with his calm and intelligent way of communicating has a far more positive effect that people laying down in the road.
To make it even more localised, eireblue is a vegan and has contributed to several threads where the consumption of meat and it's effects on the environment have been discussed. He's done so over a number of years in a calm and measured way. Never preachy, never suggesting that meat eaters were modern day nazis. Other posters combative style on the subject tuned me off the debate.However, eireblue's ability to communicate his case positively had an effect on me and I have been meat free for one year this week. But that's just a small step.
I guess it comes down to whether you want people to change their habits and have a positive effect on the environment or applaud fanatics protesting because you agree with them. I prefer the former to the latter. |  |
| |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 08:35 - Jul 24 with 830 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 09:42 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Well I'm a member of a business forum in my local town and we have had not contact with any organisation with that regards. We launch our own green initiatives and encourage local businesses to be more environmentally conscious. Perhaps local authorities are loathed to engage with the same people who are causing so much disruption.
I think Sky News initiatives like th e Sky News Ocean rescue brought far more awareness of the issues we face. Likewise, David Attenborough, with his calm and intelligent way of communicating has a far more positive effect that people laying down in the road.
To make it even more localised, eireblue is a vegan and has contributed to several threads where the consumption of meat and it's effects on the environment have been discussed. He's done so over a number of years in a calm and measured way. Never preachy, never suggesting that meat eaters were modern day nazis. Other posters combative style on the subject tuned me off the debate.However, eireblue's ability to communicate his case positively had an effect on me and I have been meat free for one year this week. But that's just a small step.
I guess it comes down to whether you want people to change their habits and have a positive effect on the environment or applaud fanatics protesting because you agree with them. I prefer the former to the latter. |
Well that post seemed to have killed the thread dead.
I wonder how many people on this thread signalling their virtue over climate change are meat eaters? Bearing in mind that the effect of eating meat is roughly equivalent to all the driving and flying of every car, truck and plane in the world.
Yiu could stop tomorrow if you genuinely cared about the climate catastrophe we are facing. As I said earlier, protest rather than progress. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 8:38]
| |
| |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 08:52 - Jul 24 with 809 views | NthQldITFC |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 09:42 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Well I'm a member of a business forum in my local town and we have had not contact with any organisation with that regards. We launch our own green initiatives and encourage local businesses to be more environmentally conscious. Perhaps local authorities are loathed to engage with the same people who are causing so much disruption.
I think Sky News initiatives like th e Sky News Ocean rescue brought far more awareness of the issues we face. Likewise, David Attenborough, with his calm and intelligent way of communicating has a far more positive effect that people laying down in the road.
To make it even more localised, eireblue is a vegan and has contributed to several threads where the consumption of meat and it's effects on the environment have been discussed. He's done so over a number of years in a calm and measured way. Never preachy, never suggesting that meat eaters were modern day nazis. Other posters combative style on the subject tuned me off the debate.However, eireblue's ability to communicate his case positively had an effect on me and I have been meat free for one year this week. But that's just a small step.
I guess it comes down to whether you want people to change their habits and have a positive effect on the environment or applaud fanatics protesting because you agree with them. I prefer the former to the latter. |
'fanatics'?
People who are so desperately concerned for our children's futures that they willingly put their freedom at risk - you think of them as fanatics? |  |
| |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 08:59 - Jul 24 with 799 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 08:52 - Jul 24 by NthQldITFC |
'fanatics'?
People who are so desperately concerned for our children's futures that they willingly put their freedom at risk - you think of them as fanatics? |
Roger Hallam is a fanatic who was expelled by Extinction Rebellion in 2020. | |
| |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 16:24 - Jul 24 with 737 views | Europablue |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 18:47 - Jul 18 by Swansea_Blue |
Don’t worry, there are already plenty of extra funerals due to the impacts of climate change and that’s projected to increase considerably.
That’s a flippant response, but individual cases however unsettling are absolutely nothing compared to what’s coming down the tracks if we don’t get serious about tackling this largest problem facing humankind. |
That is what you believe will happen, but if everyone was allowed to disrupt people and waste hundreds of thousands of pounds and disrupt people doing essential things, based on what they felt was an urgent issue then it would be absolute chaos.
The protesters should disrupt politicians not get the wrong side of the public.
Or better still join a church or a charity if you have a zeal for a cause. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 16:28 - Jul 24 with 730 views | Europablue |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 13:15 - Jul 19 by Buhrer |
Doesn't the perspective matter. For that family, the greatest personal tragedy, but for the human race it just doesn't register as significant. Global climate change of the type now being predicted is going to bring personal tragedies to the entire human race. Daily and for a thousand years. An inconvenient truth. |
An inconvenient prediction. | | | |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 16:35 - Jul 24 with 708 views | Europablue |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 20:30 - Jul 19 by Buhrer |
It's not an argument. It's a truth. Perspective matters when mitigating actions such as those prosecuted. Does anyone on this thread dispute the science? But the judge directed no reasonable excuse. [Post edited 19 Jul 2024 21:00]
|
The degree of urgency is disputed, the method of dealing with the problem is disputed, who has to lose out is disputed, how much of our freedoms and our economy has to be sacrificed is disputed.
You would have thought that it might require a referendum being as it is such a central issue that should demand our consent. | | | |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 16:38 - Jul 24 with 701 views | Europablue |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 23:45 - Jul 19 by Mercian |
I would suggest that the people who post on this forum are quite a good example of the general public. From what I have read on this thread most people think the sentences handed down for peaceful protest are very excessive. If we are a good example of the general public then most of the public are more pissed off with the draconian position of the courts and the previous government. They are pissed off with the chipping away of our rights to protest. Something that many of our fathers/grandfathers/ great grandfathers fought the most bloody and just war in human history to protect only to be eroded by people in power who do like people protesting against their views and policies. Fundamentally this whole issue is not about global warming, disruption or prison sentences it is about our right to free speech and protest. Under the previous government The UK devolved to what is almost a flawed democracy and it is still devolving. Would you prefer to live in a democratic country where the trains are not always on time or a dictatorship where they always arrive as scheduled? [Post edited 19 Jul 2024 23:51]
|
This forum is not a good example of the general public. It is way more skewed to the left than general society is. | | | |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 16:38 - Jul 24 with 700 views | Buhrer |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 21:27 - Jul 19 by J2BLUE |
I don't deny it's the truth.
Hypothetically, would the same apply if they started targeting the lives of the ultra wealthy with their private jets and wealth which could be used for green investment?
Where's the line? A few lives for the future of the world.
In this day and age I should make it clear I am not in any way suggesting this. Purely making a point. |
They glued themselves to roads. You've posed a massive exaggeration. But I would understand people targeting the elite rich who are killing us with their consumption. If they committed a crime doing this I would expect a legal system to mitigate their punishment as compared to someone committing crimes for amoralistic purposes....
My sentiment is if they're right, and the scientists say they are, then this sentencing will look like Nero fiddling. I've avoided for a long time, but I've read some very scary science recently about the real temperature rises and runaway effects.
Portman Road under the sea, and blood sacrifices to save the world appearing on the isles of Suffolk by 2100. |  | | |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 16:50 - Jul 24 with 679 views | Buhrer |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 16:38 - Jul 24 by Europablue |
This forum is not a good example of the general public. It is way more skewed to the left than general society is. |
My lad told me the view is that twtd is full of raving lefters. | | | |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 18:40 - Jul 24 with 616 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The government want to stop prison overcrowding. on 16:38 - Jul 24 by Buhrer |
They glued themselves to roads. You've posed a massive exaggeration. But I would understand people targeting the elite rich who are killing us with their consumption. If they committed a crime doing this I would expect a legal system to mitigate their punishment as compared to someone committing crimes for amoralistic purposes....
My sentiment is if they're right, and the scientists say they are, then this sentencing will look like Nero fiddling. I've avoided for a long time, but I've read some very scary science recently about the real temperature rises and runaway effects.
Portman Road under the sea, and blood sacrifices to save the world appearing on the isles of Suffolk by 2100. |
I agree with your second point. It is scary and people should be more concerned than they are.
Not so much with your first point though. By focussing on roads, they were actually targeting those people who are killing us with their consumption. Those people are us. Just under 20% of emissions across Europe are from cars and light commercial vehicles (mostly passenger cars). So it’s not just the super rich, although they are a particular problem with their private air travel. The roads are gridlocked with cars we all drive and so we’re all part of the problem and will need to change our habits if we’re going to make a difference. But, as the saying goes, that’s an inconvenient truth that people don’t want to hear. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
