| Poorer pensioners? 17:10 - Jul 29 with 12468 views | DJR |
From the Guardian.
"Reeves says pensioners not in receipt of pension credit will no longer get the winter fuel payment.
That means it will only go to poorer pensioners."
I can understand the simplicity of tying it to pension credit, but there are a lot of pensioners just above the pension credit limit who are poor and rely on the winter fuel payment to heat their homes.
My parents--in-law are a case in point. They are just above the pension credit limit so miss out on a whole range of benefits etc which make pensioners on pension credit much better off than them. And they will be even more so if my parents-in-law lose the two winter fuel payments they get.
And because they don't have enough money to survive more generally, especially when unexpected bills come along, they rely heavily on us to help them get by. A stair lift, no cheap option, is just one example. [Post edited 29 Jul 2024 17:13]
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| Poorer pensioners? on 21:09 - Jul 29 with 1615 views | mutters |
| Poorer pensioners? on 21:04 - Jul 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Ahh but just wait til they get elected.......
......oh!! |
Its almost like you could see it coming! |  |
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| Poorer pensioners? on 21:15 - Jul 29 with 1593 views | mellowblue |
Cuel decision, older people need extra heating due to their elderly metabolisms. |  | | |
| Poorer pensioners? on 21:16 - Jul 29 with 1594 views | quirkie |
| Poorer pensioners? on 20:58 - Jul 29 by Buhrer |
Sorry, I don't want to pay more taxes to give British pounds to foreign shareholders for the electric bills of people that have an income above the rate of means tested benefits just because it "comes in handy".. |
Poor choice of words there from me saying it is handy, to her it is essential to keep warm in Winter. |  |
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| Poorer pensioners? on 08:26 - Jul 30 with 1451 views | BloomBlue |
To be fair throughout the election campaign Labour consistently said they wouldn't increase taxes for working people, us pensioners aren't classed as working people.
As you say the worst part about setting 'bands' is those just over the threshold will be worse off than those just below it.
The trouble is now as Age UK have pointed out energy prices are going up in the autumn so it will be a case of eat or heat for many pensioners this winter. |  | | |
| Poorer pensioners? on 08:37 - Jul 30 with 1466 views | DJR |
Interesting to note how ignorant two commentators in today's Guardian are about pensioners whose lives they couldn't comprehend.
Polly Toynbee: "the winter fuel allowance made no sense for pensioners not on benefits."
Jonathan Portes: "ending the winter fuel payment, except for pensioners on means-tested benefits, is sensible."
[Post edited 30 Jul 2024 8:37]
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| Just one step away from…. on 08:45 - Jul 30 with 1444 views | Bloots |
| Poorer pensioners? on 08:37 - Jul 30 by DJR |
Interesting to note how ignorant two commentators in today's Guardian are about pensioners whose lives they couldn't comprehend.
Polly Toynbee: "the winter fuel allowance made no sense for pensioners not on benefits."
Jonathan Portes: "ending the winter fuel payment, except for pensioners on means-tested benefits, is sensible."
[Post edited 30 Jul 2024 8:37]
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….”Does Lord Sugar deserve a winter fuel payment?”
FFS. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Poorer pensioners? on 08:47 - Jul 30 with 1442 views | Buhrer |
| Poorer pensioners? on 08:37 - Jul 30 by DJR |
Interesting to note how ignorant two commentators in today's Guardian are about pensioners whose lives they couldn't comprehend.
Polly Toynbee: "the winter fuel allowance made no sense for pensioners not on benefits."
Jonathan Portes: "ending the winter fuel payment, except for pensioners on means-tested benefits, is sensible."
[Post edited 30 Jul 2024 8:37]
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£300 in her back pocket doesn't make sense? Shows the level of disconnected entitlement.
I'd hope for a genuinely fair means tested threshold where vulnerable peoples essential needs were well met. I'd rather have nationalised electric, where eligible pensioners received electricity free or near as. |  | | |
| Poorer pensioners? on 08:50 - Jul 30 with 1424 views | blueasfook |
| Poorer pensioners? on 08:37 - Jul 30 by DJR |
Interesting to note how ignorant two commentators in today's Guardian are about pensioners whose lives they couldn't comprehend.
Polly Toynbee: "the winter fuel allowance made no sense for pensioners not on benefits."
Jonathan Portes: "ending the winter fuel payment, except for pensioners on means-tested benefits, is sensible."
[Post edited 30 Jul 2024 8:37]
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Polly Toynbee is an awful excuse for a journalist |  |
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| Just one step away from…. on 08:52 - Jul 30 with 1423 views | DanTheMan |
| Just one step away from…. on 08:45 - Jul 30 by Bloots |
….”Does Lord Sugar deserve a winter fuel payment?”
FFS. |
Whilst that's a ridiculous comparison, I think it's also weird that we link every pensioner to being in poverty. 45% of pensioners live in households that are in the top half of income. I don't see why means testing it is such an outrage.
Nobody should go without heating though, obviously. It might be that the boundaries should be tweaked. |  |
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| Just one step away from…. on 09:03 - Jul 30 with 1390 views | DJR |
| Just one step away from…. on 08:52 - Jul 30 by DanTheMan |
Whilst that's a ridiculous comparison, I think it's also weird that we link every pensioner to being in poverty. 45% of pensioners live in households that are in the top half of income. I don't see why means testing it is such an outrage.
Nobody should go without heating though, obviously. It might be that the boundaries should be tweaked. |
I don't think anyone on this thread is linking every pensioner to being in poverty. The issue is limiting the removal of winter fuel payments to those on pension credit. | | | |
| Poorer pensioners? on 09:04 - Jul 30 with 1392 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Poorer pensioners? on 08:37 - Jul 30 by DJR |
Interesting to note how ignorant two commentators in today's Guardian are about pensioners whose lives they couldn't comprehend.
Polly Toynbee: "the winter fuel allowance made no sense for pensioners not on benefits."
Jonathan Portes: "ending the winter fuel payment, except for pensioners on means-tested benefits, is sensible."
[Post edited 30 Jul 2024 8:37]
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When we have a Labour government the Guardian is capable of following the party line as much as the likes of The Mail follow a Tory one.
The likes of Toynbee & Portes are as divorced from reality as their right wing counterparts. |  |
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| There’s plenty of things…. on 09:08 - Jul 30 with 1378 views | Bloots |
| Just one step away from…. on 08:52 - Jul 30 by DanTheMan |
Whilst that's a ridiculous comparison, I think it's also weird that we link every pensioner to being in poverty. 45% of pensioners live in households that are in the top half of income. I don't see why means testing it is such an outrage.
Nobody should go without heating though, obviously. It might be that the boundaries should be tweaked. |
….they could have done to make it fairer, or to lessen the immediate impact.
They could have gradually reduced it, they could have a tranched payment system depending on income.
They could have got the money from elsewhere entirely.
But they’ve just gone for the easiest option and given no actual thought to those effected. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Yep, my old fella.... on 09:09 - Jul 30 with 1377 views | Europablue |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 17:59 - Jul 29 by DJR |
It's reducing the income of some fairly poor pensioners which seems extraordinary to me, and not something a Labour government should be doing, especially given the susceptibility of pensioners to the cold.
The winter fuel payment is tax free, so if they were going to do something about it, why not make it taxable instead, although that wouldn't raise quite as much money?
And if they can't do something that is fair, they shouldn't be doing it at all. [Post edited 29 Jul 2024 18:01]
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Not from a moral view, but from a functional view older pensioners are a low priority for Labour because they tend not to vote as reliably for Labour, they tend to be more vulnerable and thus have less political pull, and they are much more likely to die or not be sound of mind the next time an election comes around. Sadly there are a lot of old pensioners who are much worse of than any of your relatives because they don't have anyone looking out for them and trying to support them. Our society has crumbled due to selfishness that is endemic across the political spectrum be it Reganite economics or identity politics. We used to have an ingrained sense of responsibility towards our children and our parents and grandparents. Now the families of the people who don't feel responsible to look after them are a burden on the public finances. It's a sad fact that in politics the squeaky wheel gets the grease. This is a non-partisan issue, and whoever is in government should have their feet held to the fire. You judge a society on how it treats the most vulnerable. | | | |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 09:23 - Jul 30 with 1349 views | DJR |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 09:09 - Jul 30 by Europablue |
Not from a moral view, but from a functional view older pensioners are a low priority for Labour because they tend not to vote as reliably for Labour, they tend to be more vulnerable and thus have less political pull, and they are much more likely to die or not be sound of mind the next time an election comes around. Sadly there are a lot of old pensioners who are much worse of than any of your relatives because they don't have anyone looking out for them and trying to support them. Our society has crumbled due to selfishness that is endemic across the political spectrum be it Reganite economics or identity politics. We used to have an ingrained sense of responsibility towards our children and our parents and grandparents. Now the families of the people who don't feel responsible to look after them are a burden on the public finances. It's a sad fact that in politics the squeaky wheel gets the grease. This is a non-partisan issue, and whoever is in government should have their feet held to the fire. You judge a society on how it treats the most vulnerable. |
You're absolutely right about those pensioners who have no one, or no one with sufficient income, to support them.
Another aspect that concerns me us the possible discriminatory nature of this because there will be many more single female pensioners than male pensioners, and they will be likely to have a lower pension than their male counterparts.
Pensioners are also more likely to spend more time in the home than younger people, which makes heating costs all the more. | | | |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 09:35 - Jul 30 with 1335 views | Mullet |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 09:09 - Jul 30 by Europablue |
Not from a moral view, but from a functional view older pensioners are a low priority for Labour because they tend not to vote as reliably for Labour, they tend to be more vulnerable and thus have less political pull, and they are much more likely to die or not be sound of mind the next time an election comes around. Sadly there are a lot of old pensioners who are much worse of than any of your relatives because they don't have anyone looking out for them and trying to support them. Our society has crumbled due to selfishness that is endemic across the political spectrum be it Reganite economics or identity politics. We used to have an ingrained sense of responsibility towards our children and our parents and grandparents. Now the families of the people who don't feel responsible to look after them are a burden on the public finances. It's a sad fact that in politics the squeaky wheel gets the grease. This is a non-partisan issue, and whoever is in government should have their feet held to the fire. You judge a society on how it treats the most vulnerable. |
Is it not compounded by the utter degradation of social care and demonising of immigrants who are overly represented in the caregiving jobs in the past few years? If we are looking at political cause and effect surely the impact of Tory policy, media demonising and rising poverty need to be the focus here too? |  |
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| Poorer pensioners? on 09:44 - Jul 30 with 1325 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Poorer pensioners? on 08:37 - Jul 30 by DJR |
Interesting to note how ignorant two commentators in today's Guardian are about pensioners whose lives they couldn't comprehend.
Polly Toynbee: "the winter fuel allowance made no sense for pensioners not on benefits."
Jonathan Portes: "ending the winter fuel payment, except for pensioners on means-tested benefits, is sensible."
[Post edited 30 Jul 2024 8:37]
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It's very easy for Polly Toynbee to write that from her second home in Tuscany. |  |
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| Yep, my old fella.... on 09:48 - Jul 30 with 1313 views | Buhrer |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 09:35 - Jul 30 by Mullet |
Is it not compounded by the utter degradation of social care and demonising of immigrants who are overly represented in the caregiving jobs in the past few years? If we are looking at political cause and effect surely the impact of Tory policy, media demonising and rising poverty need to be the focus here too? |
In the Brexit referendum 73% of 18-24 year old voted remain. 60% of the over 65 year old voted to leave. | | | |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:05 - Jul 30 with 1268 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 09:48 - Jul 30 by Buhrer |
In the Brexit referendum 73% of 18-24 year old voted remain. 60% of the over 65 year old voted to leave. |
Are you suggesting we should let them freeze to death for voting to leave the EU? I suppose they could check which onesioners voted remain and let them have an extra bar on the electric heater at weekends as a treat. | |
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| Poorer pensioners? on 10:09 - Jul 30 with 1266 views | giant_stow |
| Poorer pensioners? on 09:44 - Jul 30 by GlasgowBlue |
It's very easy for Polly Toynbee to write that from her second home in Tuscany. |
But isn't that the point? Many pensioners are well off so it was daft giving them this payment. Seems harsh to blame her for making that point about herself.
Reading the htread it sounds like this will have some bad consequences, but in principle, something needs to be done to ease the burden on young people. I spose the payrise for Dr's is part of that at least, but a 20 year old right now is looking at a life of paying ever increasing taxes, no chance of owning a home and facing ever increasing automation / ai . Pretty bleak. [Post edited 30 Jul 2024 10:14]
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| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:12 - Jul 30 with 1254 views | blueasfook |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:05 - Jul 30 by GlasgowBlue |
Are you suggesting we should let them freeze to death for voting to leave the EU? I suppose they could check which onesioners voted remain and let them have an extra bar on the electric heater at weekends as a treat. |
Got to punish them somehow. Pesky OAPs taking us out of Europe. | |
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| Poorer pensioners? on 10:16 - Jul 30 with 1231 views | DJR |
| Poorer pensioners? on 09:44 - Jul 30 by GlasgowBlue |
It's very easy for Polly Toynbee to write that from her second home in Tuscany. |
A crisis for her is the fridge breaking down and not being able to chill the Prosecco. | | | |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:18 - Jul 30 with 1204 views | Buhrer |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:05 - Jul 30 by GlasgowBlue |
Are you suggesting we should let them freeze to death for voting to leave the EU? I suppose they could check which onesioners voted remain and let them have an extra bar on the electric heater at weekends as a treat. |
Crikey! Errmmm no?
In response to the issues in Mullets reply, I'm suggesting as a demographic they've created a rod for their own back. [Post edited 30 Jul 2024 10:19]
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| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:19 - Jul 30 with 1194 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:12 - Jul 30 by blueasfook |
Got to punish them somehow. Pesky OAPs taking us out of Europe. |
Especially the one who got used to watching Town play in Europe every year and then vote leave. | |
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| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:33 - Jul 30 with 1163 views | blueasfook |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:19 - Jul 30 by Pinewoodblue |
Especially the one who got used to watching Town play in Europe every year and then vote leave. |
I imagine they're all sat at home in their paid off luxury homes sniggering at young people denied opportunities to work and travel in Europe. Well they won't be laughing when they're freezing their nuts off this winter. | |
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| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:41 - Jul 30 with 1140 views | Buhrer |
| Yep, my old fella.... on 10:33 - Jul 30 by blueasfook |
I imagine they're all sat at home in their paid off luxury homes sniggering at young people denied opportunities to work and travel in Europe. Well they won't be laughing when they're freezing their nuts off this winter. |
Brexit voting pensioners thought they could choose cob nuts instead of european walnuts, but now we're all only going to receive peanuts. [Post edited 30 Jul 2024 10:41]
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