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elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 21:48 - Aug 6 by WicklowBlue
Totally agree Phil, fyi the link you shared is geo blocked.
So much disinformation being spread on social media platforms! I've lost contact with 2 close friends from going down the rabbit hole that is social media and my dad is going the same way from being fixated on YouTube.
Back to Musk and the OP, as he is the owner of one of the most hate filled platforms full of disinformation then he should be held accountable for allowing same. I'd love to find out what Jack Dorsey thinks... (who was far from perfect) but Musk dismantled any sense of moderation and decency Twitter had.
I've had to unfriend a couple of people from Facebook who have clearly swallowed right wing propaganda hook, line and sinker.
It will be interesting to see how the EU, UK and other governments - US post-election if Harris wins - might seek to address the issue.
Video was Stewart Lee's history of UK immigration sketch.
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elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 22:05 - Aug 6 with 2343 views
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 21:22 - Aug 6 by lowhouseblue
we do have a long history of inward migration and it is central to who we are. but it took place over centuries and never on the scale we have seem in recent years. previous immigration waves were on a much smaller scale by comparison - the huguenots came over 50 years and amounted to about 50,000 in total. jewish refugees in the 19th and 20th centuries totalled around 200,000. for most of the twentieth century net migration was negative. in 1951 less than 4% of the population was foreign-born. but the scale of net migration in recent years is without precedent - between 1997 and 2010 it was over three million, in the last 3 years it has been almost 2 million. no previous historic period compares. it doesn't seem unreasonable to discuss the consequences of the current scale of immigration - as opposed to the fact that historically immigration has always taken place at a much lower level.
Percentage-wise Huguenots would have had more of an impact by my reckoning, given the lower population level and that they mainly came into London, probably similar in other areas at particular times (Corby?!). But, I take the wider point, even if I think your figures are exaggerated and I think has been higher in latter years due to the departure of EU immigrants post-Brexit. However, the point made was that Britain wasn't a country which was "a nation of immigrants", which is patently wrong.
On a dfferent point, I'd argue most people aren't hugely hung up on immigration rather than being "utterly fed up" with it, even if the author's echo chamber may suggest that's the case.
1
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 22:22 - Aug 6 with 2274 views
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 22:05 - Aug 6 by PhilTWTD
Percentage-wise Huguenots would have had more of an impact by my reckoning, given the lower population level and that they mainly came into London, probably similar in other areas at particular times (Corby?!). But, I take the wider point, even if I think your figures are exaggerated and I think has been higher in latter years due to the departure of EU immigrants post-Brexit. However, the point made was that Britain wasn't a country which was "a nation of immigrants", which is patently wrong.
On a dfferent point, I'd argue most people aren't hugely hung up on immigration rather than being "utterly fed up" with it, even if the author's echo chamber may suggest that's the case.
the huguenots were over 50 years though? i don't think the figures are exaggerated:
can you really call a country where up until the last 20 years or so the percentage of the population not born in it was usually around 4% "a nation of immigrants'? the contrast was being made with the usa where in the 20th century i guess the equivalent figure would be nearer to 20%. the uk is undoubtedly a nation which has been positively enhanced by immigration over centuries - it is woven into our dna - but each wave has been incrementally absorbed - it has never previously involved such big numbers over such a (historically) short period.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
1
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 22:23 - Aug 6 with 2264 views
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 21:22 - Aug 6 by lowhouseblue
we do have a long history of inward migration and it is central to who we are. but it took place over centuries and never on the scale we have seem in recent years. previous immigration waves were on a much smaller scale by comparison - the huguenots came over 50 years and amounted to about 50,000 in total. jewish refugees in the 19th and 20th centuries totalled around 200,000. for most of the twentieth century net migration was negative. in 1951 less than 4% of the population was foreign-born. but the scale of net migration in recent years is without precedent - between 1997 and 2010 it was over three million, in the last 3 years it has been almost 2 million. no previous historic period compares. it doesn't seem unreasonable to discuss the consequences of the current scale of immigration - as opposed to the fact that historically immigration has always taken place at a much lower level.
You keep trotting out this 2 million figure, so it's obviously a line being pushed somewhere. Do you appreciate what it's made up of?
I'm going to do this once, as it's a line that I've seen trotted out with no apparent appreciation for WHY we may have a figure like that. I'll focus on one part that I know well.
The only way most universities survive these days is through international student fees, which aren't capped. So we've seen aggressive marketing campaigns across the sector over the last 4-5 years targeted at students overseas, initially at China and then when that collapsed during covid at India and North Africa. Inevitably, this has resulted in a large increase in student visas issued in the last 3 years: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/664c430eb7249a4c6e9d3836/11.svg
That line of survival was sabotaged by the last government who removed the right for dependents to accompany students, to placate the more racist elements of society. That's leading to massive job losses across the sector now as overseas student applications fall off a cliff (c. 70% drop in applications not unusual).
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 22:23 - Aug 6 by Swansea_Blue
You keep trotting out this 2 million figure, so it's obviously a line being pushed somewhere. Do you appreciate what it's made up of?
I'm going to do this once, as it's a line that I've seen trotted out with no apparent appreciation for WHY we may have a figure like that. I'll focus on one part that I know well.
The only way most universities survive these days is through international student fees, which aren't capped. So we've seen aggressive marketing campaigns across the sector over the last 4-5 years targeted at students overseas, initially at China and then when that collapsed during covid at India and North Africa. Inevitably, this has resulted in a large increase in student visas issued in the last 3 years: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/664c430eb7249a4c6e9d3836/11.svg
That line of survival was sabotaged by the last government who removed the right for dependents to accompany students, to placate the more racist elements of society. That's leading to massive job losses across the sector now as overseas student applications fall off a cliff (c. 70% drop in applications not unusual).
In short, we're a more connected world and rely on other countries for wealth and jobs. Get used to it. The world's moved on.
Thanks for posting this. Just to add to your excellent contribution. The events of the past week and the travel warnings subsequently issued by India, Malaysia and Nigeria in particular are likely to have a major impact on international recruitment over the next few weeks at least. At a time when the sector is on it's knees, the hard of thinking have kicked us in the head.
It's 106 miles to Portman Road, we've got a full tank of gas, half a round of Port Salut, it's dark... and we're wearing blue tinted sunglasses.
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 22:23 - Aug 6 by Swansea_Blue
You keep trotting out this 2 million figure, so it's obviously a line being pushed somewhere. Do you appreciate what it's made up of?
I'm going to do this once, as it's a line that I've seen trotted out with no apparent appreciation for WHY we may have a figure like that. I'll focus on one part that I know well.
The only way most universities survive these days is through international student fees, which aren't capped. So we've seen aggressive marketing campaigns across the sector over the last 4-5 years targeted at students overseas, initially at China and then when that collapsed during covid at India and North Africa. Inevitably, this has resulted in a large increase in student visas issued in the last 3 years: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/664c430eb7249a4c6e9d3836/11.svg
That line of survival was sabotaged by the last government who removed the right for dependents to accompany students, to placate the more racist elements of society. That's leading to massive job losses across the sector now as overseas student applications fall off a cliff (c. 70% drop in applications not unusual).
In short, we're a more connected world and rely on other countries for wealth and jobs. Get used to it. The world's moved on.
the approx 2 million 'line' is being 'pushed' by the ons. these are the uk's official statistics.
yes i know full well that the he sector is dependent on foreign students - and i know the reasons for increased recruitment abroad. i know that we have many excellent universities - but part of the reason that the uk is so attractive is also the graduate visa and that studying here can be a route to stay longer term. so there a codependency between he institutions and high net migration.
however, the 2 million figure from the ons is NET migration - actual immigration (new people arriving) is much higher. your 800,000 plus figure is new student visas issued - there are also students leaving - so the net increase in the student population is smaller than you you imply and migration for education explains less of the total net migration figure than you imply.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 23:36 - Aug 6 with 2101 views
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 22:37 - Aug 6 by lowhouseblue
the approx 2 million 'line' is being 'pushed' by the ons. these are the uk's official statistics.
yes i know full well that the he sector is dependent on foreign students - and i know the reasons for increased recruitment abroad. i know that we have many excellent universities - but part of the reason that the uk is so attractive is also the graduate visa and that studying here can be a route to stay longer term. so there a codependency between he institutions and high net migration.
however, the 2 million figure from the ons is NET migration - actual immigration (new people arriving) is much higher. your 800,000 plus figure is new student visas issued - there are also students leaving - so the net increase in the student population is smaller than you you imply and migration for education explains less of the total net migration figure than you imply.
Yes they're based on statistics, but most people talk about years. Amalgamating 3 years worth into one isn't the normal way of talking about these statistics, so sticks out a mile as someone else's agenda you've been fed.
We've got by far the largest numbers of enrolled overseas students we've ever had at the moment. That's good. We've also had the Honk Kong intake. Ukraine intake too. Should we have not taken in any of them? Afghans are having to risk their lives making these small boat crossings after we've put their lives at risk by pulling out our occupation. Doesn't that worry you?
But let's assume you're right and that immigrants are our biggest problem and we need to vastly reduce numbers. Who are you getting rid of from the first team squad, all of them?: Muric Al Hamadi Baggot Tuanzebe Luongo Donacien
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 00:23 - Aug 7 by BanksterDebtSlave
Or who buys his vain glorious cars.
Aparently, the build quality is sh*t on them anyway (from someone who's in the industry). If you're nuts enough to spend that money on an electric saloon, the Polestar is a much better option.
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 23:36 - Aug 6 by Swansea_Blue
Yes they're based on statistics, but most people talk about years. Amalgamating 3 years worth into one isn't the normal way of talking about these statistics, so sticks out a mile as someone else's agenda you've been fed.
We've got by far the largest numbers of enrolled overseas students we've ever had at the moment. That's good. We've also had the Honk Kong intake. Ukraine intake too. Should we have not taken in any of them? Afghans are having to risk their lives making these small boat crossings after we've put their lives at risk by pulling out our occupation. Doesn't that worry you?
But let's assume you're right and that immigrants are our biggest problem and we need to vastly reduce numbers. Who are you getting rid of from the first team squad, all of them?: Muric Al Hamadi Baggot Tuanzebe Luongo Donacien
you're just being silly now. it is normal practice to group years together when they stand out in dramatic contrast to what went before. if i'm interested in something i look the stats up in their original source - i have always worked with national stats - to suggest it is someone else's agenda is just a cheap insult. no where have i said that 'immigrants are our biggest problem' - don't make stuff up.
migrants have been hugely valuable to the uk - economically, culturally, in terms of our national identity. historically successive cohorts are engrained into our individual and national dna. we also have one of the best records internationally for successfully integrating migrants into our society and culture - we have a proud record of producing one of the most cohesive multi-racial societies, with, compared to many countries, more integration and less discrimination and less conflict. but that has been achieved with sustained but modest immigration - we have been able to incorporate new arrivals incrementally and in so doing have sustained a sense of shared, though evolving, culture and values.
my interest is whether that success can be maintained when numbers increase dramatically. since the end of the 1990s net migration has risen hugely and in the last 3 years it has hit numbers completely out of line with what we have ever seen before. net migration is significant because it affects demand for resources - housing, services etc. but in terms of successful integration and cohesion and social consensus it's actually immigration numbers that matter more - in the last 3 years immigration (as opposed to to net migration) has totalled over 3 million. can you have successful social integration and maintain social cohesion when you have that number of new arrivals over so short a period? and it's happening at a time when resources are already stretched, we have the hang over from austerity, and inequality across communities is high. it would be a challenging time for many immigrants what ever the number. can we really sustain new arrivals at this rate while achieving cohesive social integration?
and division is emerging. i don't mean the riots - rioting isn't a political act any more than football hooliganism is - it's just thugs thinking they'e got a free pass for thuggery). but in polls 2/3rds to people say immigration is too high. almost half of people think it is damaging society. yet the question about current immigration levels is a no go zone in much of the liberal media - it's something labelled 'far right' - and for lots of people, including twtd, if the question is raised it's typically dismissed as racism.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
1
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 09:36 - Aug 7 with 1808 views
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 21:22 - Aug 6 by lowhouseblue
we do have a long history of inward migration and it is central to who we are. but it took place over centuries and never on the scale we have seem in recent years. previous immigration waves were on a much smaller scale by comparison - the huguenots came over 50 years and amounted to about 50,000 in total. jewish refugees in the 19th and 20th centuries totalled around 200,000. for most of the twentieth century net migration was negative. in 1951 less than 4% of the population was foreign-born. but the scale of net migration in recent years is without precedent - between 1997 and 2010 it was over three million, in the last 3 years it has been almost 2 million. no previous historic period compares. it doesn't seem unreasonable to discuss the consequences of the current scale of immigration - as opposed to the fact that historically immigration has always taken place at a much lower level.
Just like football existed prior to the Premier league the UKs history didnt begin in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Unless you can trace your ancestry directly back to Star Carr, and their descendants only breed with others descended from Star Carr who never breed with anyone who had arrived into the UK in the last 10 thousand years then you like all of us are descended from immigrants.
Be they Saxon, Viking, Beeker or more recently Irish, Jewish, Caribbean, Indian etc
The phrase 'we are not a nation of immigrants ' could not be more wrong
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elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 09:42 - Aug 7 with 1778 views
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 09:36 - Aug 7 by leitrimblue
Just like football existed prior to the Premier league the UKs history didnt begin in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Unless you can trace your ancestry directly back to Star Carr, and their descendants only breed with others descended from Star Carr who never breed with anyone who had arrived into the UK in the last 10 thousand years then you like all of us are descended from immigrants.
Be they Saxon, Viking, Beeker or more recently Irish, Jewish, Caribbean, Indian etc
The phrase 'we are not a nation of immigrants ' could not be more wrong
we are a nation descended from immigrants. but that must be true of every nation and every person in the world. it's so universally true as to be meaningless. in europe it must be rare for anyone's ancestors to have stayed put for 10,000 years. but the fact that i had huguenot ancestors in the 17th century doesn't make me an immigrant, and a nation predominantly consisting or people with stories like mine (though having their immigrant roots at different points in our history) isn't now a nation of immigrants. having ancestors who were immigrants does not make all of us immigrants. it's a silly use of language. the usa which has traditionally had a significant proportion of it population who have recently arrived, and even more who are second or third generation, was meaningfully a nation of immigrants
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 14:12 - Aug 7 with 1575 views
Every time he does or says something that seems rash or crass, I have always assumed that I was too thick to understand his motive. While I no doubt remain thick, I no longer have that view of myself in relation to Musks behaviour.
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elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 14:44 - Aug 7 with 1497 views
"In its lawsuit, X alleges that the accused firms unfairly withheld spending by following safety standards set out by a WFA initiative called Global Alliance for Responsible Media (Garm).
Garm's stated aim is to "help the industry address the challenge of illegal or harmful content on digital media platforms and its monetisation via advertising".
By doing this, X claims the companies acted against their own economic self-interests in a conspiracy against the platform that breached US antitrust, or competition, law."
X can argue that it would have been against their own economic self-interests in terms of reach and exposure; I hope the companies involved use the counter argument that it is very much in their economic self-interest not to be associated with a website that allows so much harmful online content, including disinformation posted with intent to incite racial hatred.
"In its lawsuit, X alleges that the accused firms unfairly withheld spending by following safety standards set out by a WFA initiative called Global Alliance for Responsible Media (Garm).
Garm's stated aim is to "help the industry address the challenge of illegal or harmful content on digital media platforms and its monetisation via advertising".
By doing this, X claims the companies acted against their own economic self-interests in a conspiracy against the platform that breached US antitrust, or competition, law."
X can argue that it would have been against their own economic self-interests in terms of reach and exposure; I hope the companies involved use the counter argument that it is very much in their economic self-interest not to be associated with a website that allows so much harmful online content, including disinformation posted with intent to incite racial hatred.
having told the advertisers to not advertise
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elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 16:24 - Aug 7 with 1342 views
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 14:56 - Aug 7 by Mookamoo
having told the advertisers to not advertise
Dunno about advertisers, but eight accounts that I followed, and who were also following me, have quit the platform in the last two days, which is as many as would normally have departed from my list in two years.
The problem is, as I said on another thread, that the more decent users leave, the freer musk and his ilk are to spout their bile without being pulled up, challenged and held to account for it.
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 09:54 - Aug 7 by lowhouseblue
we are a nation descended from immigrants. but that must be true of every nation and every person in the world. it's so universally true as to be meaningless. in europe it must be rare for anyone's ancestors to have stayed put for 10,000 years. but the fact that i had huguenot ancestors in the 17th century doesn't make me an immigrant, and a nation predominantly consisting or people with stories like mine (though having their immigrant roots at different points in our history) isn't now a nation of immigrants. having ancestors who were immigrants does not make all of us immigrants. it's a silly use of language. the usa which has traditionally had a significant proportion of it population who have recently arrived, and even more who are second or third generation, was meaningfully a nation of immigrants
You shoulda just stopped after the first line of yer response..
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elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 16:51 - Aug 7 with 1245 views
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 16:24 - Aug 7 by Ryorry
Dunno about advertisers, but eight accounts that I followed, and who were also following me, have quit the platform in the last two days, which is as many as would normally have departed from my list in two years.
The problem is, as I said on another thread, that the more decent users leave, the freer musk and his ilk are to spout their bile without being pulled up, challenged and held to account for it.
There must come a point, and I think we're pretty close to it, public social media will become regulated. It has to be the duty of any government to protect the idiots from themselves.
There are rules about what is and what is not free speech vs hate speech. It shouldn't be this easy for the idiots to find themselves in jail for something they post.
1
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 18:05 - Aug 7 with 1160 views
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 16:51 - Aug 7 by Mookamoo
There must come a point, and I think we're pretty close to it, public social media will become regulated. It has to be the duty of any government to protect the idiots from themselves.
There are rules about what is and what is not free speech vs hate speech. It shouldn't be this easy for the idiots to find themselves in jail for something they post.
Agree with your 1st para & first part of your second.
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 16:43 - Aug 6 by SuperKieranMcKenna
He’s always said sociopathic things, what’s left of the mask has slipped out of sight.
Anybody who is subscribed to Twitter/X is enabling him.
[Post edited 7 Aug 2024 18:18]
Not only has social media dumbed down society but when a media mogul uses it to incite those it’s dumbing down, they shouldn’t be above the law. Saying, “civil war is inevitable” should absolutely be held to account and he should be brought to the UK to face criminal charges.
[Post edited 7 Aug 2024 22:17]
1
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 10:36 - Nov 28 with 365 views
elon musk seems to have lost his mind nm on 08:59 - Aug 7 by lowhouseblue
you're just being silly now. it is normal practice to group years together when they stand out in dramatic contrast to what went before. if i'm interested in something i look the stats up in their original source - i have always worked with national stats - to suggest it is someone else's agenda is just a cheap insult. no where have i said that 'immigrants are our biggest problem' - don't make stuff up.
migrants have been hugely valuable to the uk - economically, culturally, in terms of our national identity. historically successive cohorts are engrained into our individual and national dna. we also have one of the best records internationally for successfully integrating migrants into our society and culture - we have a proud record of producing one of the most cohesive multi-racial societies, with, compared to many countries, more integration and less discrimination and less conflict. but that has been achieved with sustained but modest immigration - we have been able to incorporate new arrivals incrementally and in so doing have sustained a sense of shared, though evolving, culture and values.
my interest is whether that success can be maintained when numbers increase dramatically. since the end of the 1990s net migration has risen hugely and in the last 3 years it has hit numbers completely out of line with what we have ever seen before. net migration is significant because it affects demand for resources - housing, services etc. but in terms of successful integration and cohesion and social consensus it's actually immigration numbers that matter more - in the last 3 years immigration (as opposed to to net migration) has totalled over 3 million. can you have successful social integration and maintain social cohesion when you have that number of new arrivals over so short a period? and it's happening at a time when resources are already stretched, we have the hang over from austerity, and inequality across communities is high. it would be a challenging time for many immigrants what ever the number. can we really sustain new arrivals at this rate while achieving cohesive social integration?
and division is emerging. i don't mean the riots - rioting isn't a political act any more than football hooliganism is - it's just thugs thinking they'e got a free pass for thuggery). but in polls 2/3rds to people say immigration is too high. almost half of people think it is damaging society. yet the question about current immigration levels is a no go zone in much of the liberal media - it's something labelled 'far right' - and for lots of people, including twtd, if the question is raised it's typically dismissed as racism.
a correction:
over several months i repeatedly posted that net migration in the 3 years to sept 2023 was some 2 million. ONS have now updated their numbers and the corrected number for those 3 years is now 2,134,000 (only the year to sept 2023 is now provisional at almost 900,000). net migration in the year to June 2024 is then a further 728,000. this level of net migration is without precedent in the uk.
just to cut through some of the previous discussion:
people coming in boats are a tiny tiny proportion of these numbers - net migration is not meaningfully about them. the uk must observe its duties under refugee and humanitarian law. in looking at these number it is a diversion to focus on illegal migration.
only a tiny proportion of those numbers have come to work in the nhs or care sector.
net migration is not affected by students - they come, they graduate, they go (those coming net off against those going). students coming and paying fees are good.
most migrants (about 2/3rds) are not coming for work reasons. of those coming for work reasons about a half are dependents.
since brexit the average skill and qualification level of migrants has fallen and most migrants coming to work are now lower skilled - the proportion of dependents has also risen. the entirely correct analysis pre-brexit that migrants are net tax payers and are a net economic benefit does not seem to apply post-brexit
the last government completely lost control of migration.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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