| Broja out for seven weeks 10:38 - Aug 27 with 8496 views | pointofblue |
Was nervous before, but now hate the deal. We need someone in now, with Hirst being out. I mentioned this elsewhere but this really reminds me of the Camara transfer and look what happened there. I really hope we move on. |  |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:05 - Aug 27 with 1288 views | Ryorry |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:02 - Aug 27 by pointofblue |
So he may be missing closer to three months than seven weeks by the time McKenna feels he is ready to start. |
And as Joe said, Achilles injuries are notoriously tricky to put right. Easier to sort out a broken leg! |  |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:05 - Aug 27 with 1292 views | tonybied |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 10:54 - Aug 27 by itfcjoe |
It's only 5 games, and this is nothing like Camara
Camara only found out about the interest on deadline day and we signed him that day, we've been running through medical bits with Broja for over a week now and giving him the most thorough examination you can do.
With Camara it was seemingly the equivalent of cupping his balls and asking him to cough. |
5 games is the best-case scenario though, he probably will need a few more weeks to get up to speed. Has he had any kind of preseason too being part of the Chelsea bomb squad? If so he may get up to speed fairly quickly if not it may be towards Nov-Dec before he's ready to be involved in more than 10-20 minutes of a game.
This really depends on how much we want him and if we have faith that this and his ACL will be totally behind him. I'm not averse to taking the risk and well done to the club as they seem to be doing all the due diligence. We have Delap and AAH to cover until Hirst and Broja return, at a push we also have Szmodics that can assist up front too especially as we have had more cavalry arriving in the 10 positions |  | | |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:06 - Aug 27 with 1291 views | homer_123 |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:03 - Aug 27 by _clive_baker_ |
5 could easily become 7 or 8 with time to get up to match fitness and integrate into our patters of play. By which point we're 25% of the way through our league season.
Given our current situation with having 1 proper #9 who we probably all trust at this level (no disrespect to AAH) then we really need someone who can add value from day 1. |
See below. I don't think that is the case. He can learn alot about what's required of him by watching how we train and play, he'll be up to speed on patterns by the time he's back on the grass. |  |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:06 - Aug 27 with 1276 views | Guthrum |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 10:59 - Aug 27 by cressi |
But it's not 5 games it will take another 5 weeks to get up to speed we need players ready now not November when we could be adrift wakey wakey time. |
Will it take a further five weeks to get up to speed after returning to fitness? I'm sure an injury to his foot doesn't stop him studying under McKenna, observing training, learning and familiarising himself with our systems, style of play and where he fits into that. |  |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:08 - Aug 27 with 1265 views | homer_123 |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:03 - Aug 27 by itfcjoe |
I think that would be the part that would be more Ahadme like to do, i.e. you don't go for main target and just go for someone who is more available and fit and they just aren't the right player.
The fact this is still ongoing shows that Broja is seen as a long way clear of Plan B for this role, because we've spoken to others and yet still haven't pulled the plug on this one as yet |
Indeed. There is a very strong argument that Broja (like Hirst) has been coveted by KM & Co for a while and for a reason.
Off all the options we may have been looking at, he really does fit what we need in that role doesn't he.
So, in the longer run, better to make this deal the right deal for us and make it happen - than go short term'ism all of a sudden. | |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:08 - Aug 27 with 1242 views | HighgateBlue |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 10:41 - Aug 27 by gordon |
Sounds as though Chelsea didn't know about the injury, as well, which is crazy. |
To be fair, Chelsea do have more potential patients than the NHS. |  | | |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:09 - Aug 27 with 1242 views | tonybied |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:06 - Aug 27 by homer_123 |
See below. I don't think that is the case. He can learn alot about what's required of him by watching how we train and play, he'll be up to speed on patterns by the time he's back on the grass. |
That depends on if he would even spend time with us, being a Chelsea player and being injured he may stay with them getting treatment until fit. It's not unusual for loan players to return to their parent club for treatment when injured. | | | |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:09 - Aug 27 with 1236 views | ITFCBlues |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:03 - Aug 27 by itfcjoe |
I think that would be the part that would be more Ahadme like to do, i.e. you don't go for main target and just go for someone who is more available and fit and they just aren't the right player.
The fact this is still ongoing shows that Broja is seen as a long way clear of Plan B for this role, because we've spoken to others and yet still haven't pulled the plug on this one as yet |
I guess we also don't have huge amounts to be throwing at clubs in regards to fees which potentially limits the pool of players that we can actually bring in. |  |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:10 - Aug 27 with 1233 views | portmanking |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:04 - Aug 27 by homer_123 |
No, I don't think so.
If he's in now - he can do the ground work and prep, learn about how we operate and what is required from his role whilst returning to fitness and then, once he's back on the grass, the learning curve for him will be far shorter. |
He's not in now. He needs a minor op. | | | |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:10 - Aug 27 with 1229 views | Churchman |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 10:41 - Aug 27 by gordon |
Sounds as though Chelsea didn't know about the injury, as well, which is crazy. |
The cynic in me says Chelsea were pulling a fast one. Here is a player who had a serious injury in 2022, did nothing for Fulham on loan last season and has an Achilles problem and they didn’t know about it? So Chelsea don’t check their players when they come back for pre season?
Sorry, don’t believe it. I don’t blame them. That’s business. If you can find a bunch of desperate mugs ready to lob £30m if they survive or at least pay his wages while his polishes somebody else’s treatment table with his rear end, why wouldn’t you? I bet their medical team declare him ready for the London Marathon followed by a couple of triathlons by the end of the week even if he is toe to @rse in plaster.
Let’s move on and try and find somebody who isn’t made of glass. If we can’t, go with what we have until Christmas. Given the length of time this bloke will be out, we might as well. [Post edited 27 Aug 2024 11:22]
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:13 - Aug 27 with 1201 views | homer_123 |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:09 - Aug 27 by tonybied |
That depends on if he would even spend time with us, being a Chelsea player and being injured he may stay with them getting treatment until fit. It's not unusual for loan players to return to their parent club for treatment when injured. |
I would be very surprised if he spent no time at the Club, if he signed tomorrow, before being fit to train. | |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:13 - Aug 27 with 1203 views | Vic |
Oh dear, that's not good news is it; no wonder they are properly digging into this. My gut feeling is that it will happen if the obligation to buy bit is taken out of the equation. With Chelsea paying his wages for the season we wouldn't have much to lose and if KM judges he's good enough to be part of the long term squad then it's probably a risk worth taking. |  |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:14 - Aug 27 with 1199 views | itfcjoe |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:08 - Aug 27 by homer_123 |
Indeed. There is a very strong argument that Broja (like Hirst) has been coveted by KM & Co for a while and for a reason.
Off all the options we may have been looking at, he really does fit what we need in that role doesn't he.
So, in the longer run, better to make this deal the right deal for us and make it happen - than go short term'ism all of a sudden. |
We are going into this with our eyes wide open, so if he signs then the club will be doing so fully aware of the situation.
If this was happening on Friday morning then that's a different matter and there were mega time pressures on it to get done |  |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:14 - Aug 27 with 1194 views | homer_123 |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:10 - Aug 27 by portmanking |
He's not in now. He needs a minor op. |
The point remains entirely valid. | |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:16 - Aug 27 with 1178 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:13 - Aug 27 by Vic |
Oh dear, that's not good news is it; no wonder they are properly digging into this. My gut feeling is that it will happen if the obligation to buy bit is taken out of the equation. With Chelsea paying his wages for the season we wouldn't have much to lose and if KM judges he's good enough to be part of the long term squad then it's probably a risk worth taking. |
If the obligation to buy is withdrawn I doubt Chelsea would fund his wages for the season, there's little to be gained from that other than giving him a shop window. |  | | |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:16 - Aug 27 with 1174 views | BlueOura |
I said it yesterday and I will say it again today, if it's an achilles injury we need to steer well clear of this one. It has disaster written all over it. |  | | |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:17 - Aug 27 with 1165 views | portmanking |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:13 - Aug 27 by Vic |
Oh dear, that's not good news is it; no wonder they are properly digging into this. My gut feeling is that it will happen if the obligation to buy bit is taken out of the equation. With Chelsea paying his wages for the season we wouldn't have much to lose and if KM judges he's good enough to be part of the long term squad then it's probably a risk worth taking. |
I don't see a world where Chelsea agree to ditching the obligation *and* agree to pay his wages. | | | |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:17 - Aug 27 with 1160 views | pointofblue |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:08 - Aug 27 by homer_123 |
Indeed. There is a very strong argument that Broja (like Hirst) has been coveted by KM & Co for a while and for a reason.
Off all the options we may have been looking at, he really does fit what we need in that role doesn't he.
So, in the longer run, better to make this deal the right deal for us and make it happen - than go short term'ism all of a sudden. |
As already alluded to, Achilles injuries are unpredictable when it comes to healing. It's seven weeks now, but that could easily increase.
Furthermore, what's the temporarily plan if the worst happens and Delap picks up an injury, whilst Hirst and Broja are both on the treatment table? Yes, you could argue that might happen to a new signing - pick up an injury in training before kicking a ball in anger - but that's down to luck. In this case we know there's an issue and can mitigate for it. Still signing him despite this seems foolhardy. | |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:19 - Aug 27 with 1157 views | SomethingBlue |
I'd bin it, it means we would basically have four forwards out for around two months – and Delap carrying a hell of a load at CF in that time – and we simply can't afford that. It also goes against the rest of our transfer policy so far this summer which has been to leave nothing to chance (Ogbene a good example). I understand Broja is very talented but ideally we would not be going there, let's hope one of our other targets comes good between now and Friday. | |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:20 - Aug 27 with 1138 views | homer_123 |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:17 - Aug 27 by pointofblue |
As already alluded to, Achilles injuries are unpredictable when it comes to healing. It's seven weeks now, but that could easily increase.
Furthermore, what's the temporarily plan if the worst happens and Delap picks up an injury, whilst Hirst and Broja are both on the treatment table? Yes, you could argue that might happen to a new signing - pick up an injury in training before kicking a ball in anger - but that's down to luck. In this case we know there's an issue and can mitigate for it. Still signing him despite this seems foolhardy. |
So, it's (as it always is) risk v reward.
Broja is very clearly wanted by KM and the team - it's evidently not a panic buy.
I am sure that part of the risk v rewards discussions internally will include aspects of what you've posted, obviously. | |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:20 - Aug 27 with 1136 views | Guthrum |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:16 - Aug 27 by _clive_baker_ |
If the obligation to buy is withdrawn I doubt Chelsea would fund his wages for the season, there's little to be gained from that other than giving him a shop window. |
Indeed. But if we did have to pay his wages, four or five million is a lot less of a risk than being on the hook for thirty. | |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:21 - Aug 27 with 1130 views | portmanking |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:19 - Aug 27 by SomethingBlue |
I'd bin it, it means we would basically have four forwards out for around two months – and Delap carrying a hell of a load at CF in that time – and we simply can't afford that. It also goes against the rest of our transfer policy so far this summer which has been to leave nothing to chance (Ogbene a good example). I understand Broja is very talented but ideally we would not be going there, let's hope one of our other targets comes good between now and Friday. |
If circumstances were different, I'd take Broja, for sure. But can we let 21 y/o Delap and a green Al-Hamadi shoulder the burden at #9 for a quarter of the season (at least)? Just flies in the face of everything we've done to this point. | | | |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:23 - Aug 27 with 1106 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:06 - Aug 27 by homer_123 |
See below. I don't think that is the case. He can learn alot about what's required of him by watching how we train and play, he'll be up to speed on patterns by the time he's back on the grass. |
I don't buy that tbh. There's an element of him integrating into the squad and the environment, but naturally it'll take some time for him to be out on the grass with his teammates and building a familiarity and muscle memory. Not to mention his core fitness which would be set back by having 7 weeks out, and he's not played much football for a while.
With the greatest will in the world I don't think we would expect to see a huge amount of him until Leicester probably, assuming things go to plan. There's a lot of risk in it though and 7 big games before that.
Ultimately it's about a level of risk we're happy with and whether we think there's more value in getting 28 odd games from Broja vs. 35 from an alternative. To some degree that will be determined by what the alternatives look like, and it looks like slim pickings to me. That's part of the problem. | | | |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:25 - Aug 27 with 1062 views | homer_123 |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:21 - Aug 27 by portmanking |
If circumstances were different, I'd take Broja, for sure. But can we let 21 y/o Delap and a green Al-Hamadi shoulder the burden at #9 for a quarter of the season (at least)? Just flies in the face of everything we've done to this point. |
"Just flies in the face of everything we've done to this point."
How does it? | |
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| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:28 - Aug 27 with 1019 views | pointofblue |
| Broja out for seven weeks on 11:20 - Aug 27 by homer_123 |
So, it's (as it always is) risk v reward.
Broja is very clearly wanted by KM and the team - it's evidently not a panic buy.
I am sure that part of the risk v rewards discussions internally will include aspects of what you've posted, obviously. |
It is a panic buy if we seemingly don't have a plan B so just want someone through the door. Agreeing a loan and then crossing everything that the injury will clear up adequately. That didn't work for Camara, and there's nothing to say it will work here. Out of the two options I think I'd prefer to go into the season with Delap and Al-Hamidi whilst not making any kind of financial commitment towards Broja. At least that might put us on a stronger financial footing for a deal in January. | |
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