| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... 13:55 - Aug 27 with 4264 views | itfcjoe |
...admittedly they were squad options, but look at league starts last season
Hladky (46)
Edmundson (10)
Jackson (9)
Harness (7)
Taylor (7)
Donacien (3)
Ladapo (2)
Al-Hamadi (1)
Ball (1)
Those not getting new contracts, and likely not fitting into the 25 man squad this summer weren't good enough to start games in the Championship.
The 8 senior players, of which most likely 7 won't be in the 25 man squad, started 40 games between them, less than Hladky managed.
Whilst I appreciate they've played their part, it was like the year before where we last Edwards, Leigh etc - they weren't good enough to start at the level below we are now at |  |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 13:59 - Aug 27 with 3632 views | _clive_baker_ |
Indeed, its very much the likely suspects, and the reality is once we signed 10+ players those who couldn't force their way in last season were never going to be closer to the side this year.
Its a natural cycle as we move through the leagues, replacing your weakest component. Its just happened very quickly which is why it feels stark. |  | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:08 - Aug 27 with 3536 views | bazza |
To be fair, a big part of our play, was our substitutions, and it’s not a fair
Reflection based on those who started matches.. |  | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:12 - Aug 27 with 3489 views | JakeITFC |
Yup, although next season it's probably Woolfy, Burgess, Broadhead, Chaplin, Hirst etc. who make up this list.
The cost of competing in the Prem I guess, but a bit sad not to have a bit of a crack with the lads who got us there. |  | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:17 - Aug 27 with 3431 views | itfcjoe |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:08 - Aug 27 by bazza |
To be fair, a big part of our play, was our substitutions, and it’s not a fair
Reflection based on those who started matches.. |
I think it is, even when you look at impact of the bench those guys were behind the main starters in much fewer opportunities | |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:19 - Aug 27 with 3400 views | itfcjoe |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:12 - Aug 27 by JakeITFC |
Yup, although next season it's probably Woolfy, Burgess, Broadhead, Chaplin, Hirst etc. who make up this list.
The cost of competing in the Prem I guess, but a bit sad not to have a bit of a crack with the lads who got us there. |
Yep, the ones who were total mainstays over the back to back will be tough to see in this situation - can accept Mass as he's a bit older and likely will wind down after this season. But the others who are still a good age and are going to go and play 200 more career games will be strange to see as never really happened to us as a club. | |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:21 - Aug 27 with 3369 views | Guthrum |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:19 - Aug 27 by itfcjoe |
Yep, the ones who were total mainstays over the back to back will be tough to see in this situation - can accept Mass as he's a bit older and likely will wind down after this season. But the others who are still a good age and are going to go and play 200 more career games will be strange to see as never really happened to us as a club. |
Unfortunately, the cost of relegation is too high. Not just financial, but the risk of losing McKenna. |  |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:21 - Aug 27 with 3366 views | Vaughan8 |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:08 - Aug 27 by bazza |
To be fair, a big part of our play, was our substitutions, and it’s not a fair
Reflection based on those who started matches.. |
Agreed. Harness and Taylor must have been involved in quite a lot even if just coming on most games.
However, we've brought in a lot of players so its inevitable most of these players are going to go. |  | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:24 - Aug 27 with 3308 views | bazza |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:17 - Aug 27 by itfcjoe |
I think it is, even when you look at impact of the bench those guys were behind the main starters in much fewer opportunities |
If you look back at the goals scored last season, I think it gives a fairer reflection of the part they played, I just dont think with McKennas team selection it was always merited on who plays the best starting, more of how to approach each game, who to have on the bench.. | | | |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 15:35 - Aug 27 with 3048 views | BloomBlue |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:12 - Aug 27 by JakeITFC |
Yup, although next season it's probably Woolfy, Burgess, Broadhead, Chaplin, Hirst etc. who make up this list.
The cost of competing in the Prem I guess, but a bit sad not to have a bit of a crack with the lads who got us there. |
There is no reason why those cannot compete and ultimately be better than the players we've purchased. Those players were better than most in the championship last season as we won promotion, those we're buying didn't.
I think those have just as good chance of improving and demonstrating they're prem capable as the players we've purchased from the Championship. |  | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 15:39 - Aug 27 with 2999 views | JakeITFC |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 15:35 - Aug 27 by BloomBlue |
There is no reason why those cannot compete and ultimately be better than the players we've purchased. Those players were better than most in the championship last season as we won promotion, those we're buying didn't.
I think those have just as good chance of improving and demonstrating they're prem capable as the players we've purchased from the Championship. |
I hope you're right - I'm especially big on both Woolfy and Hirst who I think are very good players who could have an impact at PL level. | | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 15:40 - Aug 27 with 2990 views | NedPlimpton |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:17 - Aug 27 by itfcjoe |
I think it is, even when you look at impact of the bench those guys were behind the main starters in much fewer opportunities |
Al Hamadi deserves an asterisk as he was only here from the end of Jan onwards and is a fair bit younger than the rest. So was always being brought in with one eye on the future rather than what impact he would make last season |  | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 15:45 - Aug 27 with 2900 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Three McKenna signings in that lot - one of whom was allegedly a Prem striker in waiting who’s been here weeks rather than months
Aside from the fact that half the team that started a game often didn’t finish it ….All of them are on the best contracts of their careers and may not necessarily want to move on to please fickle fans or a disloyal manager. | |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 15:48 - Aug 27 with 2881 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 15:40 - Aug 27 by NedPlimpton |
Al Hamadi deserves an asterisk as he was only here from the end of Jan onwards and is a fair bit younger than the rest. So was always being brought in with one eye on the future rather than what impact he would make last season |
Joe's analysis / main point is spot on, but Ali is, as you point out, the anomaly. His movement and speed of thought are both great attributes; he now needs to play somewhere to work on his end product. I think we have a potential real star in the making. | | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 15:51 - Aug 27 with 2836 views | NedPlimpton |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 15:48 - Aug 27 by Freddies_Ears |
Joe's analysis / main point is spot on, but Ali is, as you point out, the anomaly. His movement and speed of thought are both great attributes; he now needs to play somewhere to work on his end product. I think we have a potential real star in the making. |
Yep, agree with the general point being made, but saying Al-Hamadi wasn't good enough to start championship games is a bit harsh considering I don't think we ever expected him to be! | | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:00 - Aug 27 with 2739 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Agreed. And the one player on your list who did start regularly was offered a deal to stay but chose not to take it up. |  |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:06 - Aug 27 with 2678 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:21 - Aug 27 by Vaughan8 |
Agreed. Harness and Taylor must have been involved in quite a lot even if just coming on most games.
However, we've brought in a lot of players so its inevitable most of these players are going to go. |
Neither of these two have moved on yet unless I have missed something and both have come off the bench in both of our matches so far.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them move on but it is absolutely correct that they were not first choice players in their positions at any point last season (or even the season before in the league below that in Harness' case). | |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:33 - Aug 27 with 2493 views | davblue |
Do you think we will stay up Joe?
I genuinely couldn’t tell you will any confidence that we will, think we have done some good business without getting in prem proven quality for obvious reasons.
I do feel I’ve we need a win in the next 2-3 games otherwise being winless can hang over you and it quickly spirals in the premier league. |  | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:40 - Aug 27 with 2448 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:33 - Aug 27 by davblue |
Do you think we will stay up Joe?
I genuinely couldn’t tell you will any confidence that we will, think we have done some good business without getting in prem proven quality for obvious reasons.
I do feel I’ve we need a win in the next 2-3 games otherwise being winless can hang over you and it quickly spirals in the premier league. |
Are Muric, Johnson, Phillips and Tuanzebe not proven in the Premier League? I think several others have proven to be the among the best in the Championship and highly likely to be good enough.
The issue is how long they take to gel together and you are right we need to get a couple of wins under our belts before we start to drop behind (although there is no gap at all yet). | |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:44 - Aug 27 with 2404 views | davblue |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:40 - Aug 27 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Are Muric, Johnson, Phillips and Tuanzebe not proven in the Premier League? I think several others have proven to be the among the best in the Championship and highly likely to be good enough.
The issue is how long they take to gel together and you are right we need to get a couple of wins under our belts before we start to drop behind (although there is no gap at all yet). |
Phillips is, Muric has played 10 games or so I think?
Johnson, not seen enough of him but he’s not been a regular week in week out premier league starter and Tuanzebe hasn’t exactly played loads of games in the premier league either I don’t think. | | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:48 - Aug 27 with 2378 views | itfcjoe |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:33 - Aug 27 by davblue |
Do you think we will stay up Joe?
I genuinely couldn’t tell you will any confidence that we will, think we have done some good business without getting in prem proven quality for obvious reasons.
I do feel I’ve we need a win in the next 2-3 games otherwise being winless can hang over you and it quickly spirals in the premier league. |
I do, I think Leicester and Southampton look poor already and don't see them getting better.
We've got a fantastic squad of players and a brilliant manager - we will get better as the season goes on and think the next 8 or so games we just need to keep in touch because we will finish the season strongly | |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:57 - Aug 27 with 2258 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:44 - Aug 27 by davblue |
Phillips is, Muric has played 10 games or so I think?
Johnson, not seen enough of him but he’s not been a regular week in week out premier league starter and Tuanzebe hasn’t exactly played loads of games in the premier league either I don’t think. |
Fair enough. I thought Muric was first choice for Burnley most of the season but clearly not.
I still think there is plenty of quality amongst them. That matters more than experience to me. If they are hungry to prove themselves as well, even better. | |
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| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 17:06 - Aug 27 with 2154 views | Europablue |
The players weren't good enough to start in front of the players in their position. Almost all of them would have been fine at the level we were playing at. A good example was Leigh. He was more than capable, we just happened to have Leif ahead of him. I would still argue that there is still space in there for Taylor and Harness, maybe less so for Taylor, but Harness is so reliable off the bench, that he might just keep him there.
I also think that Edmundson would be fine at lower Prem level, but he won't get a chance considering how much we have spent.
It's too much of a risk to see who would have made it, but some of them who would will be sacrificed for a surer bet. | | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 17:11 - Aug 27 with 2095 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:57 - Aug 27 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Fair enough. I thought Muric was first choice for Burnley most of the season but clearly not.
I still think there is plenty of quality amongst them. That matters more than experience to me. If they are hungry to prove themselves as well, even better. |
What does proven in the premier league really mean anyway, its so subjective. Its not like you get your proven in the premier league badge and that's that.
I think it depends a lot on the opportunities players have had, who they're playing for, system they're playing in, form, and various other factors. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Phillips isn't our best performer this season, and he's as proven as they come on paper. At what point is Ben Johnson proven? Was Kenlock a proven Championship player after 60 appearances? Herman got relegated about 100 times but he was firmly proven at PL level for me. If you're a Championship player and then play 30 games for Fulham are you proven? Was Mark Venus proven in 2001? Bowen hadn't kicked a ball at that level until he was about 23 and now he's an England player.
There's too much made of it IMO. Some will rise to the challenge, while others will find it a step too far, its fine lines though innit. A number of our squad arguably aren't proven at the level below let alone this one. | | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 17:11 - Aug 27 with 2090 views | Ace_High1 |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 14:21 - Aug 27 by Guthrum |
Unfortunately, the cost of relegation is too high. Not just financial, but the risk of losing McKenna. |
McKenna will be gone in the summer regardless I am afraid, so lets enjoy him while we can.
Most of the names in Joe's post are not a concern, as you say not good enough overall.
As others have said it is the next batch who may become marginalised next season if we stay up that will be sad to see go - Broadhead, Chaplin, Burgess, Hurst, Woolfenden even Morsey but that is the price of success.
We need to get a win on the board soon just to get some momentum but we will likely take another 4-6 games to fully get going with all the new recruits. |  | | |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 17:51 - Aug 27 with 1865 views | southnorfolkblue |
| Talk of players moving on this season and ruthlessness... on 16:57 - Aug 27 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Fair enough. I thought Muric was first choice for Burnley most of the season but clearly not.
I still think there is plenty of quality amongst them. That matters more than experience to me. If they are hungry to prove themselves as well, even better. |
Trafford was first choice until the back end of the season. Plenty of Burnley fans thought Muric was a definite upgrade on him tbf | |
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