| Not a serious country 13:05 - Sep 6 with 6823 views | itfcjoe |
Had my weekly email from EADT, and top story is about plans for a quarry being overturned in Bentley
https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/24551230.bentley-quarry-off-a12-suffolk-quashed-lega
Then driving back through Little Bromley and it's full of signs objecting to a new sub station, with signs like 'SAVE TENDRING', 'SAVE FRINTON' and 'SAVE CLACTON' and you just think save Clacton from what? Having more jobs on it's doorstep opposed to farmland in a village a few miles away from it.
Labour has plans to build masses of houses, but everyone objects to everything everywhere - people moan about lack of housing but don't want any built near them, people moan about lack of infrastructure but improvements are rejected by local residences.
Nothing can get done, the country is just in a form of stasis - no one willing to concede anything, the courts used to frustrate things for so long that by the time things are done they aren't fit fur purpose any more.
I wouldn't suggest we go like China, where peoples homes are bulldozed and they are told to get out - but what can be done about all the NIMBYism we have? |  |
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| Not a serious country on 13:13 - Sep 6 with 4381 views | factual_blue |
They need to get their MP on the case.
Oh.... |  |
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| Not a serious country on 13:16 - Sep 6 with 4351 views | unbelievablue |
My suspicion is that the NIMBYism is overblown - the loud minority, typically. A few signs, some pressure groups, some protests - ultimately most people are pragmatic or apathetic. |  |
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| Not a serious country on 13:20 - Sep 6 with 4323 views | Illinoisblue |
Similar issues play out over here where I live. People in their $600-700k suburban houses continually piss and moan about new apartments being built anywhere in town. They want this town to remain exactly as it was when they moved in - literally pull up the drawbridge and have no more development. Neatly forgetting the fact that where their shiny comfy McMansion sits used to be countryside and fields which, 20-30 years ago people were probably quite fond of.
It’s all about balance and sensible development but as you say people will always object to something. |  |
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| Not a serious country on 13:21 - Sep 6 with 4317 views | itfcjoe |
| Not a serious country on 13:16 - Sep 6 by unbelievablue |
My suspicion is that the NIMBYism is overblown - the loud minority, typically. A few signs, some pressure groups, some protests - ultimately most people are pragmatic or apathetic. |
I think it's overblown when you speak to people, but the loud minority make so much noise and generally have lots of professional skills (or finances to access those professional skills) that it doesn't need to be many to frustrate processes | |
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| Not a serious country on 13:26 - Sep 6 with 4247 views | itfcjoe |
| Not a serious country on 13:20 - Sep 6 by Illinoisblue |
Similar issues play out over here where I live. People in their $600-700k suburban houses continually piss and moan about new apartments being built anywhere in town. They want this town to remain exactly as it was when they moved in - literally pull up the drawbridge and have no more development. Neatly forgetting the fact that where their shiny comfy McMansion sits used to be countryside and fields which, 20-30 years ago people were probably quite fond of.
It’s all about balance and sensible development but as you say people will always object to something. |
In our industry we always say that the difference between a conservationist and a developer is that a developer wants to build a house in the woods whereas a conservationist already has one | |
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| Not a serious country on 13:31 - Sep 6 with 4196 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
The best thing Labour can do is actually start improving infrastructure. It’s going to take a good about of time, but it’s hardly surprising residents reject hundreds of new homes being built when you already can’t see a doctor and schools are already full to the brim.
I do think prioritising brownfield sites is crucial too, although appreciate that’s not enough. But if lockdown emphasised one thing, it’s how important green spaces are to mental health. Suffolk is largely rural, but the Home Counties are already incredibly densely populated.
Part of the problem - which even Labour historically has done nothing to address is how centralised the UK is, with the huge pull of London. As such we are now seeing 10k homes a year built of flood plains, even as climate change drives us to wetter winters - it’s madness. |  | | |
| Not a serious country on 13:32 - Sep 6 with 4194 views | Sarge |
As a NIMBY, or more accurately a KIMBY as I’m trying to keep something, who is fighting to keep our local train station in our village rather than have it relocated 3 miles away for the sole benefit of a new housing development, my experience so far has been it doesn’t matter that there is wholesale rejection/opposition of the plans, no business case, and no desire on the part of the developer to actually deliver it as they’re going to do it anyway.
I’m quite grateful that avenues for opposition exist and I intend to use every single one of them until the council give up and stop spending our money on stripping our own assets.
In Cambridge it seems like every plan they come up with is designed purely to deprive the people of something they once had and chuck some more stuff over to the university until they’ve finally managed to drive everyone that doesn’t work there out. | | | |
| Not a serious country on 13:39 - Sep 6 with 4133 views | Illinoisblue |
| Not a serious country on 13:26 - Sep 6 by itfcjoe |
In our industry we always say that the difference between a conservationist and a developer is that a developer wants to build a house in the woods whereas a conservationist already has one |
Yep, exactly! There’s an added layer to the opposition to apartments herr as some of them are earmarked as, gasp, social housing. | |
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| Not a serious country on 13:44 - Sep 6 with 4094 views | dickie |
I think a lot of NIMBYism is related to the types of houses built and the lack of joined up thinking with regards to infrastructure. The Northern Fringe development in Ipswich is going to cause even more strain on the struggling road network (as well as the schools, public transport and doctors etc). The northern bypass wasn't backed and NIMBYism won there but had they built it they'd have in filled with even more housing resulting in no actual improvement. They also cram so many houses into these developments with tiny gardens and minimal planning for parking that I wonder how desirable these properties actually are for people (similarly with all the flats in the town centre) | | | |
| Not a serious country on 13:48 - Sep 6 with 4055 views | Kievthegreat |
Huge opposition near my In-Laws around a proposed prison at Wethersfield near Braintree. Plan was to build it along with houses on a disused airforce base. Lots of jobs and growth, but some people would rather a literal blank slab of concrete and nowhere for their kids to live or work.
Well their opposition worked and instead the Home Office took over the site and built a camp for Asylum Seekers.
Add to this, the people who complain about their village schools closing as they have so few students, whilst blocking any new housing in said village so young families can't actually move there. |  | | |
| Not a serious country on 13:49 - Sep 6 with 4055 views | homer_123 |
Though not surprising, two local developments here in North Essex were approved with additional infrastructure.
2 x GP surgeries
A small shopping precinct
2 x play areas
A wilderness area
Both developments are complete, houses sold and guess what, have the developers then delivered the above additional infrastructure?
Both developments are rat runs, roads so narrow and small that if you were ever in the need of the fire service, forget it.
So, I have some sympathy for people objecting when the likes of the above happen. |  |
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| Not a serious country on 13:50 - Sep 6 with 4043 views | baxterbasics |
It does bug me seeing "No to..." signs every where I go.
No to Sizewell/Pylons.
No to housing developments.
No to a big Tesco.
Some people hate progress. They've got their nice house and a pretty view so they're alright, Jack.
These people need to be scorned and then ignored.
EDIT - and we need that NI bypass, pronto. [Post edited 6 Sep 2024 13:51]
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| Not a serious country on 13:52 - Sep 6 with 4023 views | homer_123 |
| Not a serious country on 13:50 - Sep 6 by baxterbasics |
It does bug me seeing "No to..." signs every where I go.
No to Sizewell/Pylons.
No to housing developments.
No to a big Tesco.
Some people hate progress. They've got their nice house and a pretty view so they're alright, Jack.
These people need to be scorned and then ignored.
EDIT - and we need that NI bypass, pronto. [Post edited 6 Sep 2024 13:51]
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Again, playing devils advocate.
In the space of a 5 mile radius of where I am, there are 3 tesco expresses and a large tesco supermarket (plus other well known supermarkets).
Of the 3 tesco express, 1 is brand new as is the large tesco - both of which have hammered two local shops that are now due to close as they have lost a huge amount of business. [Post edited 6 Sep 2024 13:59]
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| Not a serious country on 13:55 - Sep 6 with 3999 views | Kievthegreat |
| Not a serious country on 13:49 - Sep 6 by homer_123 |
Though not surprising, two local developments here in North Essex were approved with additional infrastructure.
2 x GP surgeries
A small shopping precinct
2 x play areas
A wilderness area
Both developments are complete, houses sold and guess what, have the developers then delivered the above additional infrastructure?
Both developments are rat runs, roads so narrow and small that if you were ever in the need of the fire service, forget it.
So, I have some sympathy for people objecting when the likes of the above happen. |
That isn't an argument for objecting developments, but support for fixing planning requirements/regulations
- Realistic assumptions on required parking
- Banning on-street parking on narrow roads or mandating sufficient sized roads for developments
- Proper public transport planning or cycling infrastructure to reduce number of cars (again with realistic assumptions) | | | |
| Not a serious country on 13:55 - Sep 6 with 3989 views | homer_123 |
It's a difficult one isn't it.
Say you move to a village, because you love the village way of life, slow paced, away from the hustle and bustle of towns and cities.
And then, all of a sudden, there are plans to build 2,000 homes on green belt land, with roads, a train station etc.
You've moved to that area because it's a village - I can understand people objecting.
That said, only a small % of our country is actually developed - there is plenty of space and we absolutely need to build more housing and put into place more infrastructure whilst also improving what's there.
There is no perfect answer but I think we all have to accept change and things rarely now stay as they are. I look at what things will be like for my kids - I have no idea how they are going to afford a house!!!! | |
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| Not a serious country on 13:57 - Sep 6 with 3961 views | homer_123 |
| Not a serious country on 13:55 - Sep 6 by Kievthegreat |
That isn't an argument for objecting developments, but support for fixing planning requirements/regulations
- Realistic assumptions on required parking
- Banning on-street parking on narrow roads or mandating sufficient sized roads for developments
- Proper public transport planning or cycling infrastructure to reduce number of cars (again with realistic assumptions) |
Indeed, but assume you haven't objected to said development - this happens.
You can then see why residents might then start to object to any other kind of development! | |
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| Not a serious country on 14:02 - Sep 6 with 3899 views | Blueschev |
| Not a serious country on 13:31 - Sep 6 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
The best thing Labour can do is actually start improving infrastructure. It’s going to take a good about of time, but it’s hardly surprising residents reject hundreds of new homes being built when you already can’t see a doctor and schools are already full to the brim.
I do think prioritising brownfield sites is crucial too, although appreciate that’s not enough. But if lockdown emphasised one thing, it’s how important green spaces are to mental health. Suffolk is largely rural, but the Home Counties are already incredibly densely populated.
Part of the problem - which even Labour historically has done nothing to address is how centralised the UK is, with the huge pull of London. As such we are now seeing 10k homes a year built of flood plains, even as climate change drives us to wetter winters - it’s madness. |
Your first paragraph is correct but also gives the answer as to why it won't happen. Infrastructure projects take time, and the governing party won't want to commit to it only to be dumped out of power before they get the credit for it. Far easier to just talk vaguely about change or bleat on about boats. |  | | |
| Not a serious country on 14:04 - Sep 6 with 3883 views | Lord_Lucan |
Being our resident construction tycoon you will know best, but........
.....Some bloke on the radio the other day said there were only 40,000 brickies in the UK, and if this is the case, who is going to build one million homes? |  |
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| Not a serious country on 14:05 - Sep 6 with 3857 views | homer_123 |
| Not a serious country on 14:04 - Sep 6 by Lord_Lucan |
Being our resident construction tycoon you will know best, but........
.....Some bloke on the radio the other day said there were only 40,000 brickies in the UK, and if this is the case, who is going to build one million homes? |
China? | |
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| Not a serious country on 14:05 - Sep 6 with 3855 views | dickie |
| Not a serious country on 14:04 - Sep 6 by Lord_Lucan |
Being our resident construction tycoon you will know best, but........
.....Some bloke on the radio the other day said there were only 40,000 brickies in the UK, and if this is the case, who is going to build one million homes? |
Child labour | | | |
| Not a serious country on 14:14 - Sep 6 with 3758 views | Keno |
| Not a serious country on 14:04 - Sep 6 by Lord_Lucan |
Being our resident construction tycoon you will know best, but........
.....Some bloke on the radio the other day said there were only 40,000 brickies in the UK, and if this is the case, who is going to build one million homes? |
well what we need to do is bring people in from others countries to do jobs like that ..... |  |
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| Not a serious country on 14:14 - Sep 6 with 3755 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Not a serious country on 13:55 - Sep 6 by homer_123 |
It's a difficult one isn't it.
Say you move to a village, because you love the village way of life, slow paced, away from the hustle and bustle of towns and cities.
And then, all of a sudden, there are plans to build 2,000 homes on green belt land, with roads, a train station etc.
You've moved to that area because it's a village - I can understand people objecting.
That said, only a small % of our country is actually developed - there is plenty of space and we absolutely need to build more housing and put into place more infrastructure whilst also improving what's there.
There is no perfect answer but I think we all have to accept change and things rarely now stay as they are. I look at what things will be like for my kids - I have no idea how they are going to afford a house!!!! |
“That said, only a small % of our country is actually developed”
Most people that use this stat use the UK but Scotland and Wales have much lower population densities. England is one of the most densely populated countries in Europe. It’s also the least forested, which is not great when we need to be soaking up carbon. Theres not not as much decent land available as people think for significant (millions) of new homes - hence why over 110,000 (in the last 10 years) are now sat uninsurable on flood plains. If we are to continue absorbing another 500k-1m people every year we need to have a plan how to do it. There’s never a long term plan in this country by any party.
There’s significant farmland of course, the CAP was aimed at being self-sufficient (sadly another loss from Brexit). People went ape during COVID/Ukraine when they realised we had given up energy security to oil majors. Wait until we start repurposing agriculture into housing en masse, and the next geopolitical event highlights our fragile food supply chains. | | | |
| Not a serious country on 14:14 - Sep 6 with 3753 views | Blueschev |
| Not a serious country on 14:04 - Sep 6 by Lord_Lucan |
Being our resident construction tycoon you will know best, but........
.....Some bloke on the radio the other day said there were only 40,000 brickies in the UK, and if this is the case, who is going to build one million homes? |
Why not get the 50 million illegals crossing the channel every day to build their own houses? | | | |
| Not a serious country on 14:17 - Sep 6 with 3664 views | Vaughan8 |
I don't know the area you are talking about but where I live in Bedfordshire, they are building houses everywhere, without the proper infrastructure of roads/doctors/schools.
And they continue to build or want to build more houses. The roads are all clogged up. Takes 10-15 minutes to get out the town (small than Felixstowe) in the morning onto the main road.
I'm part of that problem because I moved here on a new(ish) estate. They have a school and nursery on the estate and some people who live on our estate, cannot get into the primary school here, as well as the nursery, you have to almost pre-book it for a years time (i'm not sure if thats the same everywhere?) so if you want your child in the nursery after say 9 months of maternity, you need to register 3 months before its even born!
So on the houses, I can see why some people would object. | | | |
| Not a serious country on 14:22 - Sep 6 with 3549 views | itfcjoe |
| Not a serious country on 13:44 - Sep 6 by dickie |
I think a lot of NIMBYism is related to the types of houses built and the lack of joined up thinking with regards to infrastructure. The Northern Fringe development in Ipswich is going to cause even more strain on the struggling road network (as well as the schools, public transport and doctors etc). The northern bypass wasn't backed and NIMBYism won there but had they built it they'd have in filled with even more housing resulting in no actual improvement. They also cram so many houses into these developments with tiny gardens and minimal planning for parking that I wonder how desirable these properties actually are for people (similarly with all the flats in the town centre) |
I'd personally say that if people weren't objecting to the type of house they'd find something else that they didn't like about them!
Agree re the whole infrastructure problem, and lack of joined up thinking - but not sure how best to solve it because generally if you build the houses the infrastructure does follow.
Regardless of the types of houses being built, they always seem to sell well enough and retain value so assume people are happy with them? | |
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